AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › HTC, Samsung also take issue with Apple's antenna claims
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

HTC, Samsung also take issue with Apple's antenna claims - Page 2

post #41 of 239
7/19/10 at 7:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by storneo View Post

How can people not understand that Jobs was just comparing Apple's phone to Android/WIN phones? Fact is phones drop bars when the antenna is interfered with. SIMPLE! By giving a demo on it he's just saying "look, if you're gonna make a big deal about this then be fair and give everyone a hard time!".

Exactly! The issue is not that the other phones are bad, with better or worse antenna designs; the issue is that it is an antenna and the laws of physics make it impossible to design an antenna which cannot be interfered with.

Apple's new design is apparently more sensitive to radio signals than their older designs when it's not being interfered with, but it's also apparently easier to interfere with it than most phones, and interference makes a bigger difference in signal strength than on most phones.

By showing what happens to some other phones when they're held different ways, he was trying to point out that this happens to all phones to some degree.

I should also point out that phones with the antenna at the top are not blocked by the hand so much, but it also puts the antenna right next to your head. Apparently the FCC has been encouraging manufacturers to put the antenna at the bottom of the phone to reduce the amount of radiation being pumped into people's skulls, which moves the antenna to an area where holding the phone in your hand can interfere with the antenna.

Since the bumpers can apparently reduce the amount of interference without significantly reducing the sensitivity to radio signals, Apple apparently has room to further improve the antenna design.
Reply
Reply
post #42 of 239
7/19/10 at 7:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by spliff monkey View Post

Awwwwww. Need a tissue? So glad the great burden of owning Apple products has been lifted off your back. Enjoy your delusional fantasy, er uh I mean unburdened escape from the clutches if the Evil Empire into the soft delicate hands of droid bliss.

Everyone's Iphone 4's seem to be working fine with one caveat, the antennae. The phone is in no way defective, merely imperfect as all phone's *and all electronics) are in some way. The droid OS is terrible, HTC hardware is crap. Everything sucks on a droid.

Iphone 4 owners have to have to use a case, hold it a certain way or turn off 3G. Not a big deal to me over the deficiencies of owning a craptastic droid. Especially 3G, eats too much battery anyway.

Funny you didn't even bother to look at IP4. I am now waiting for mine since I realized (IMO) all of these stories are gross exaggerations, perpetuated by loud mouth, non expert, whiny bloggers throwing temper tantrums in an attempt to garner attention for their sad, sad blogging lives by spreading nothing short of propaganda, possibly cooked up by Apple's competitors when a fairly minor flaw was uncovered. Apple took a big chance at making a better antenna and it worked. Reception is better, but it also presented a flaw. How many times have we seen that in the tech business? Kudos for Apple taking a chance, sorry it didn't work out for everybody. Everyone else was happy with 3G phones that got worse reception than the clunkers from the early 90's, but obviously Apple wanted the best antenna they could make. In creating a new standard it introduced a problem they didn't see soon enough.

Not a perfect antenna, I Know, but I know how to mitigate the problem and I still have the better phone, the better camera, the better screen, the best ipod, video chat, the best apps, the best OS, the best book, tv and movie store as well. Oh well, enjoy the freedom to embrace mediocrity.

Why attack the person? Why make it personal? Did he step on YOUR toes because he made a different choice than you would? He said he was still an Apple supporter.....Gees man get a life.....

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

Reply

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

Reply
post #43 of 239
7/19/10 at 7:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by halfyearsun View Post

Actually, a more accurate analogy would be complaints that pizza hut pizza is always cold when delivered.

depends on where you are located in proximity to the store.

and the fact is that any pizza will get cold when it's not in an oven.

perhaps there are better warming sleeves and delivery methods, but it's up to the consumer to decide if they want domino's pizza with their well hyped delivery methods, or a pizza that they prefer better that may not be as hot a small percentage of the time.

also. analogies on message boards usually degenerate into the absurd.

Actually, it's more like if you find a hair on your pizza and--- jk lol
Reply
Reply
post #44 of 239
7/19/10 at 7:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

If Apple would stop pointing fingers and just admit they made a mistake and then everyopne could just move on.....

They aren't pointing fingers, they are just saying, "Hey, why are you pointing fingers at us? These other guys have the same problem. Duh!"

Consumer Reports looks like they will end up suffering the most damage to their reputation. What credibility they had is slipping away as they recommend people buy other phones with the same issue but won't recommend the iP4 because not doing so is generating links, hits and subscriptions for them.
Reply
Reply
post #45 of 239
7/19/10 at 7:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Because it's not an excuse for a "blunder". What they basically told the press is that they are a hysterical bunch of mindless idiots (which the tech press largely is) and that these issues are, in fact, a fact of life with phones. Apple is entirely correct, as we can see from the demonstrations and the responses of other phone companies.

In your pizza analogy, it would be like people complaining that if you buy a pepperoni pizza from Pizza Hut that the greese from the pepperoni will run down your arm if you hold it a certain way. Pizza Hut then shows videos of other companies' pepperoni pizza, demonstrating that the pepperoni greese from those will run down you arm if you hold them a certain way. It's the nature of pepperoni pizza that this can happen, and their isn't anything wrong with Pizza Hut's pizza. (It's an analogy, so the actual quality of Pizza Hut pizza isn't relevant.) The solution is to not hold any of the pizzas in a manner that will cause the greese to run down your arm, or use a knife and fork. So, do you get mad at Pizza Hut because they told you you have to hold all pepperoni pizza differently if you find the greese running down your arm? Or do you just hold it differently so that doesn't happen?

Ok, lets use your grease analogy. Pizza hut says it makes the best pizza in the world. They didn't invent the pepperoni pizza, they just did it better. This new pepperoni they are using has been specially designed to go around the outside of the crust! LOL.

This is definitely getting into the absurd. The bottom line is, Apple shouldn't be pointing to other phones and saying it's just a fact of life. This doesn't do any good for ANYBODY. Just point out how the issue is only an ISSUE for those living in very weak signal areas, offer those individuals a free case, and move on. That's more than enough. Apple's pulling other phones into this mess to show attenuation is literally them just saying "Well you can go get one of the other competitor's phones, but you'll just see the same thing, so you may as well stick with us."
Reply
Reply
post #46 of 239
7/19/10 at 7:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

They aren't pointing fingers, they are just saying, "Hey, why are you pointing fingers at us? These other guys have the same problem. Duh!"

Consumer Reports looks like they will end up suffering the most damage to their reputation. What credibility they had is slipping away as they recommend people buy other phones with the same issue but won't recommend the iP4 because not doing so is generating links, hits and subscriptions for them.

I've yet to see a video of someone simply touching with a single finger a competitor's phone and seeing the signal fade to nothing. I have seen that with the iphone though. Literally, the phone is sitting up on it's side so the band is upward, a person touches it with their finger, and the signal slowly fades to nothing.

Lets not forget how severe it can be on the iphone4 without the death grip. THATS what I think people are really complaining about.

Personally though, if my phone was that bad, I'd get a case and an ear piece.
Reply
Reply
post #47 of 239
7/19/10 at 7:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

How many more videos do you need to show this is commonplace, but it took a phone people actually care about to make it known?

PS: The Nexus One has died after a whopping 6 months on the market. Only the Kin has bested them in being a nonstarter.

And how many users of other devices do you know who complained en masse about signal loss/attenuation issue before the Iphone 4?

Were Blackberry users complaining? No Are they now? No

Were Palm(HP) users complaining? No Are they now? No

Were Android* -- Motorola--Samsung-- LG-- users complaining? No Are they now? No

Were Iphone users complaining? no* Are they now? Yes You see the difference, right?


*I am beginning to believe that the number of dropped calls on att are mostly experienced by Iphone users with the exception of the Nexus one. I never seem to have a problem, nor do I personally hear anyone complain about ATT other than those that use an iphone.

*With the exception of the Nexus One, which I owned/tested and did have poor reception dropped call issues.
Reply
Reply
post #48 of 239
7/19/10 at 7:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by qualar View Post

Arrogant idiot.

OK, he was a little bit emotional, but I don't think that it is very humble to dismiss a long text with a two word insult either. If you look carefully behind all the anger there are some fine points there. To be honest after 3 weeks of media circus there are some reasons to be emotional. The hard data that jobs presented was absolutely shocking, whether you like Job's rhetoric or not, the data was unbelievable. And the videos of other phones played an important role, the problem with antenna is a matter of degree, and the degree is not very large.
Reply
Reply
post #49 of 239
7/19/10 at 7:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

The bottom line is, Apple shouldn't be pointing to other phones and saying it's just a fact of life. This doesn't do any good for ANYBODY.

Well, since other phones have this problem, but Apple is the company being criticized for it, singled out for it, it's entirely appropriate for them to point this out.
Reply
Reply
post #50 of 239
7/19/10 at 7:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by storneo View Post

I think it was a GREAT decision! Apple was merely pointing out that other phones drop bars when held a specific way as does the iPhone 4. Jobs was even nice about it saying the other phone were "great phones". Apple did NOT say anything about dropped calls/data based on the bars dropping. To top it off, Apple is doing something to help their customers who complain about the issues, Do you think any of the other phone makers are going to do the same? NO WAY!

How can people not understand that Jobs was just comparing Apple's phone to Android/WIN phones? Fact is phones drop bars when the antenna is interfered with. SIMPLE! By giving a demo on it he's just saying "look, if you're gonna make a big deal about this then be fair and give everyone a hard time!".

Can you replicate the decreased signal on any other phone with just the tip of your finger? I'll be waiting for your answer & link.
Reply
Reply
post #51 of 239
7/19/10 at 7:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

My feelings exactly.......I returned my iphone 4G and got and HTC EVO. I feel like Apple let me down on the iphone 4G. That does not mean I will stop buying Apple products...
i just got a new MBP 15 inch i7! It is blazing fast! If Apple would stop pointing fingers and just admit they made a mistake and then everyopne could just move on.....

When is HTC going to admit their mistake? A quick google of EVO 4G shows screens separating from the body, poor battery life, poor reception, etc. Funny that the entire world isn't screaming their heads off demanding an apology from HTC over issues found by tech bloggers.

Oh, and when is HTC going to stop lying to everyone calling their 802.16e phone a 4G phone?
Reply
Reply
post #52 of 239
7/19/10 at 8:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogerman2000 View Post

Can you replicate the decreased signal on any other phone with just the tip of your finger? I'll be waiting for your answer & link.

Do you have the mental and physical dexterity to not put the tip of your finger on that one spot?
Reply
Reply
post #53 of 239
7/19/10 at 8:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

They aren't pointing fingers, they are just saying, "Hey, why are you pointing fingers at us? These other guys have the same problem. Duh!"

Consumer Reports looks like they will end up suffering the most damage to their reputation. What credibility they had is slipping away as they recommend people buy other phones with the same issue but won't recommend the iP4 because not doing so is generating links, hits and subscriptions for them.

While I do agree with you on most of what you said......I just don't a lot peopel complaining about dropped calls and signal loss on the other phones makers. thats doesn't mean they don't exist. I would even agree with the premise that ALL smartphones have some signal loss depending on how you hold them. BUT I have NEVER had a dropped call or signal loss with my iPhone 3G or 3GS or anyother phone I have had becasue of the way I held it. I have had a lot of phones over the years and from different carriers and nerver had theis happen until the 4G......That is just my experience......

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

Reply

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

Reply
post #54 of 239
7/19/10 at 8:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

But John Gruber of Daring Fireball also pointed out on Monday a screenshot from HTC's instruction manual for the Droid Eris. Page 13 includes an illustration of the Droid Eris, showing the portion of the phone where the antenna is located, and instructing users not to touch there.


In that illustration the Droid's antenna is at the top of the phone, a design I thought the FCC had prohibited since the radiation is closer to the brain, which is one reason the iPhone antenna is near the bottom. I was also looking at the radiation levels of popular phones and the iPhone 4 is the lowest of all previous iPhones and lower than most other brands as well.

Maybe Apple would have been wise to make mention of the no touch antenna area in their user manual as well.

Clearly the reason that there are so few returns is that everything about the iPhone 4 is so spectacular that people don't want to give it up even though they have been shown the demonstration of how to intentionally lose your signal.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply
post #55 of 239
7/19/10 at 8:01am
He-he. Apple's PR ``kids' ' made even more stupid error. They passed the ball from marketing and PR realm --- 70% of what constituted the ``issue' ' have been boiling agitatedly in precisely that area --- almost totally into the technical field. Engineering companies are not happy.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

Reply

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

Reply
post #56 of 239
7/19/10 at 8:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

I've yet to see a video of someone simply touching with a single finger a competitor's phone and seeing the signal fade to nothing. I have seen that with the iphone though. Literally, the phone is sitting up on it's side so the band is upward, a person touches it with their finger, and the signal slowly fades to nothing.

Well, except that doesn't really happen when the bars are analogous to signal strength:

Quote:
The result is that the worst case drop of 24 dBm no longer makes all the signal bars disappear, but rather two.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3821/i...-41-signal-fix


You're either being disingenuous, or you really aren't following and don't understand what's going on.
Reply
Reply
post #57 of 239
7/19/10 at 8:04am
What all of these manufacturers are doing here is try to bury Apple's data that indicates this "issue" only affects a very small percentage of iPhone 4 owners. essentially undoing any good their press conference could have had. Check it out:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Smartphone rivals HTC and Samsung have both chimed in on Apple's antenna attenuation claims made last week, with both companies suggesting their handsets do not lose signal when held improperly.

First up, a bold-faced lie; every phone loses some signal when held, period. By making this claim, they're implying that the iPhone 4 loses signal as in all of its signal while their phones do not. This is simply untrue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

HTC said on Monday that reception problems are not common on smartphones, regardless of what Apple said at its iPhone 4 press conference on Friday.

Reception problems are not common in the iPhone 4 either, HTC; but thank you for implying it to once again be so, just as the media has done for the past three weeks. Again. only .55% of Applecare calls were related to reception.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

But John Gruber of Daring Fireball also pointed out on Monday a screenshot from HTC's instruction manual for the Droid Eris. Page 13 includes an illustration of the Droid Eris, showing the portion of the phone where the antenna is located, and instructing users not to touch there.

"Avoiding contact with the antenna area when the phone is IN USE optimizes the antenna performance and the battery life," the manual reads.

How they can make claims of it not affecting their smartphones, while having this page in their manual, takes some real nerve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

In addition, Samsung also gave comment on Apple's claims, as the Cupertino, Calif., company specifically cited the Omnia II smartphone in a video showing signal attenuation. The company simply noted that it "hasn't received significant customer feedbacks on any signal reduction issue for the Omnia II."

Apple hasn't received significant customer feedback about signal reduction with the iPhone 4 either, Samsung. But again, thank you for implying that is once again the case.
Reply
Reply
post #58 of 239
7/19/10 at 8:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogerman2000 View Post

And how many users of other devices do you know who complained en masse about signal loss/attenuation issue before the Iphone 4?

Were Blackberry users complaining? No Are they now? No

Were Palm(HP) users complaining? No Are they now? No

Were Android* -- Motorola--Samsung-- LG-- users complaining? No Are they now? No

Were Iphone users complaining? no* Are they now? Yes You see the difference, right?...

Well, except that, based on the numbers Apple released, iP4 owners weren't and aren't now complaining in significant numbers. So, your little comparison is just a fiction.
Reply
Reply
post #59 of 239
7/19/10 at 8:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malligator View Post

When is HTC going to admit their mistake? A quick google of EVO 4G shows screens separating from the body, poor battery life, poor reception, etc. Funny that the entire world isn't screaming their heads off demanding an apology from HTC over issues found by tech bloggers.

Oh, and when is HTC going to stop lying to everyone calling their 802.16e phone a 4G phone?

Dude ...relax......I did not say the HTC EVOs were without issues.....
ALL manufactured goods have problems......But it is how the manufacturer handle those problems is what counts...... I can pickup my EVO when it rings and answer the call no matter wheather I have a strong signal or no matter how I hold it.....
I am not bashing Apple......I persaonally feel they let me down with the ipone 4G......
I had the 3G and the 3GS and never had those problems.........

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

Reply

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

Reply
post #60 of 239
7/19/10 at 8:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogerman2000 View Post

Can you replicate the decreased signal on any other phone with just the tip of your finger? I'll be waiting for your answer & link.

False issue, as has already been pointed out.
Reply
Reply
post #61 of 239
7/19/10 at 8:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogerman2000 View Post

had the iphone 4 for 2 days before I returned it with the intention of waiting for the next gen-- but because of the press release and the tone with which Jobs and co. conducted themselves, I will most likely take my business elsewhere. I was Iphone strong for 3 yrs.

*
You were upset they had a software update and a press conference? The multiple sets of correlating data, technical explanations and demonstrations? I was offended when Steve Jobs said that you "were overly sensitive and obvious displace your own feelings of insecurity on others based on rumors and media speculation pieces". Not to mention that time he claimed you "teared up like a little girl after getting splashed at the pool". I agree that this tone was unacceptable and we should all take our business somewhere else... some company that will follow not innovate, and instead of addressing a notion just coddle & sooth us after any perceived slight. Boogerman, you need the love that only Eric Schmidt & Peter Chou can give.
Reply
Reply
post #62 of 239
7/19/10 at 8:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

While I do agree with you on most of what you said......I just don't a lot peopel complaining about dropped calls and signal loss on the other phones makers. thats doesn't mean they don't exist. I would even agree with the premise that ALL smartphones have some signal loss depending on how you hold them. BUT I have NEVER had a dropped call or signal loss with my iPhone 3G or 3GS or anyother phone I have had becasue of the way I held it. I have had a lot of phones over the years and from different carriers and nerver had theis happen until the 4G......That is just my experience......

You're exaggerating the issue. Apple released data on this and I doubt that the difference in the number of dropped calls on the iP4 vs. 3GS is even statistically significant.
Reply
Reply
post #63 of 239
7/19/10 at 8:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogerman2000 View Post

And how many users of other devices do you know who complained en masse about signal loss/attenuation issue before the Iphone 4?

Were Blackberry users complaining? No Are they now? No

Were Palm(HP) users complaining? No Are they now? No

Were Android* -- Motorola--Samsung-- LG-- users complaining? No Are they now? No

Were Iphone users complaining? no* Are they now? Yes You see the difference, right?


*I am beginning to believe that the number of dropped calls on att are mostly experienced by Iphone users with the exception of the Nexus one. I never seem to have a problem, nor do I personally hear anyone complain about ATT other than those that use an iphone.

*With the exception of the Nexus One, which I owned/tested and did have poor reception dropped call issues.

Huh? Try going to the forums for those companies and look at all the complaints. What Iphone users are complaining? I am not complaining and i own an iPhone 4. From the facts, a tiny fraction of iPhone 4 owners have complained to apple about it.

Go back to neowin or whatever anti-apple fanboy site you came from.
Reply
Reply
post #64 of 239
7/19/10 at 8:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Well, since other phones have this problem, but Apple is the company being criticized for it, singled out for it, it's entirely appropriate for them to point this out.

They released a phone to the public that would drop your call if you touched it, literally. This is not something that other companies have done, and the only "problem" that other phones suffered from came from those death grip scenarios.


Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Well, except that doesn't really happen when the bars are analogous to signal strength:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3821/i...-41-signal-fix

You're either being disingenuous, or you really aren't following and don't understand what's going on.

What's going on is the connection is bridged when you touch the black band. Changing how the bars are represented doesn't solve this. Just because their single bar is now at -121 instead of -113, it doesn't mean they have solved the issue. It's the equivalent of getting a bigger tub instead of going on a diet when a fat person displaces all the water.

Again, this software update along with a bumper is all that was needed. Dragging other companies in to bash them, and capitalizing on the public's ignorance about attenuation was just unnecessary and makes Apple look bad (in my eyes anyway.)
Reply
Reply
post #65 of 239
7/19/10 at 8:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

You're exaggerating the issue. Apple released data on this and I doubt that the difference in the number of dropped calls on the iP4 vs. 3GS is even statistically significant.

No...I was speaking from personal experience. I had the 4G with the signal loss issue. I could reproduce it for an Apple store manger. It didn't matter if I had full signal or less than full signal. If I held it in my hand the way I just naturally hold my phone it would lose signal then go to no service. So I am not speaking about anyone else or any other data....from personal experience with other phones I have had throughout my lifetime and from different carriers. My 3G nor my 3GS would never drop calls based on how I held the phones. My son has a 3G now and it is rock solid never has had a problem. So then why did the 4G drop calls?

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

Reply

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

Reply
post #66 of 239
7/19/10 at 8:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

They released a phone to the public that would drop your call if you touched it, literally. This is not something that other companies have done, and the only "problem" that other phones suffered from came from those death grip scenarios.

But only if you already had a very weak signal. You know that you are completely misrepresenting the issue, and it reflects poorly on you that you are doing so.
Reply
Reply
post #67 of 239
7/19/10 at 8:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malligator View Post

Do you have the mental and physical dexterity to not put the tip of your finger on that one spot?

That doesn't answer my question, does it?

But yes, I do retain both the mental and physical capacity. I can even do it with my right and left hands-- I'm just so fucking ambidextrous like that, man.

Let's ask the more appropriate question: Should you or I or anyone else have to hold the phone a certain way in order to use it?
Reply
Reply
post #68 of 239
7/19/10 at 8:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

No...I was speaking from personal experience. I had the 4G with the signal loss issue. I could reproduce it for an Apple store manger. It didn't matter if I had full signal or less than full signal. If I held it in my hand the way I just naturally hold my phone it would lose signal then go to no service. So I am not speaking about anyone else or any other data....from personal experience with other phones I have had throughout my lifetime and from different carriers. My 3G nor my 3GS would never drop calls based on how I held the phones. My son has a 3G now and it is rock solid never has had a problem. So then why did the 4G drop calls?

Did you keep the phone? How's the software update and a bumper working out for you?

I'd take 4.01 and a bumper over returning the whole thing any day, but that's just me.
Reply
Reply
post #69 of 239
7/19/10 at 8:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogerman2000 View Post

I feel that it was an incredibly poor decision for Apple to call out RIM, HTC, etc. in the manner in which they did when clearly the signal drop/attenuation issue doesn't affect other phones both in quantity and frequency. I had the iphone 4 for 2 days before I returned it with the intention of waiting for the next gen-- but because of the press release and the tone with which Jobs and co. conducted themselves, I will most likely take my business elsewhere. I was Iphone strong for 3 yrs.

And to be fair, I have other reasons for jumping ship-- *cough* notifications *cough*

Btw, I've tested a number handsets as an alternative to the Iphone and while many are fantastic, the htc aria is a standout. No signal issues or dropped calls whatsoever thus far in the very same areas where all generations of Iphone were affected to varying degrees.








+1

By definition, a smart phone has to live up to its characterization. It has to perform a lot of tasks reasonably well with a good measure of cross pollination and coordination between those tasks. Not intelligent, but a good measure of synergetic productivity enhancement.

Furthermore, for it to be smart it cannot forsake the free expanding will of its end user for the benefit of a free everlasting ride for its rain maker.

In other words, it is conceptually impossible for Google, given its very nature, to engineer and brand a smart phone, for it is genetically and irremediably tied up to Google's own thought process. The consumer emerges more as a conceptual buying entity than as a performing human being. All servers, no freeways.

But It could brand a fishing rod... with no space for ethical quandary!
Reply
Reply
post #70 of 239
7/19/10 at 8:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogerman2000 View Post

Can you replicate the decreased signal on any other phone with just the tip of your finger? I'll be waiting for your answer & link.

Since the weak spot gives you a texture feedback, wouldn't it help you avoid it. Typing is a relaxing activity and having a little mark on the F and the J, helps us focus more on the text and lets the body deal with the actual typing. When they say that is not a big deal, it really is not a big deal, it is just a change, but people don't like changes, the like new things but not changes. We all know that this was tread off, on the one hand better reception, more room for batteries, on the other, your body has to learn a new trick, you see it is not your mind that they want to change in the way we use the gadget. These guys take risks, that is why they are fun. They got away with the simple wheel of the expensive ipod, did they get away with the new ishuffle? they got away with the no physical keyboard of the first iphone, are they going to get away with this one? I am not sure, I tend to think they are because it is a better antenna.
Reply
Reply
post #71 of 239
7/19/10 at 8:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

But only if you already had a very weak signal. You know that you are completely misrepresenting the issue, and it reflects poorly on you that you are doing so.

How was a person supposed to know they had a weak signal? They had 5 bars. I'm not misrepresenting the issue AT ALL. I'm only relaying everything I've seen and read. Are you going to tell everyone who posted a video on it that they're misrepresenting the issue? Listen to yourself.

I guess now at least with the new update, they can see more clearly they don't have a strong signal...

BTW, how am I misrepresenting the issue when clearly I've said numerous times that a bumper or case along with the software update is enough of a resolution?
Reply
Reply
post #72 of 239
7/19/10 at 8:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Did you keep the phone? How's the software update and a bumper working out for you?

I'd take 4.01 and a bumper over returning the whole thing any day, but that's just me.

I returned my 4G and got an EVO. I don't use cases on my phones. That is just a personal preference of mine. I also don't feel like I should have to use a case or bumper to have a fully function phone.....

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

Reply

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

Reply
post #73 of 239
7/19/10 at 8:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

No...I was speaking from personal experience. I had the 4G with the signal loss issue. I could reproduce it for an Apple store manger. It didn't matter if I had full signal or less than full signal. If I held it in my hand the way I just naturally hold my phone it would lose signal then go to no service. So I am not speaking about anyone else or any other data....from personal experience with other phones I have had throughout my lifetime and from different carriers. My 3G nor my 3GS would never drop calls based on how I held the phones. My son has a 3G now and it is rock solid never has had a problem. So then why did the 4G drop calls?

Again, it will only do this, as tests have indicated, if you are already in an area where there is a very weak signal. Anecdotes are trumped by actual data, and the data indicate that the issue is not affecting significant number of users in a significant way. If your iP4 -- it's not a 4G, by the way -- was dropping calls in an area of strong signal, then it isn't because of this issue.
Reply
Reply
post #74 of 239
7/19/10 at 8:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by storneo View Post

I think it was a GREAT decision! Apple was merely pointing out that other phones drop bars when held a specific way as does the iPhone 4. Jobs was even nice about it saying the other phone were "great phones". Apple did NOT say anything about dropped calls/data based on the bars dropping. To top it off, Apple is doing something to help their customers who complain about the issues, Do you think any of the other phone makers are going to do the same? NO WAY!

How can people not understand that Jobs was just comparing Apple's phone to Android/WIN phones? Fact is phones drop bars when the antenna is interfered with. SIMPLE! By giving a demo on it he's just saying "look, if you're gonna make a big deal about this then be fair and give everyone a hard time!".

You said it better than I. This whole debate now boils down to Apple vs the competition. I'm happy we all have choices. Well, not all of us. I'm with Verizon and I still have to wait for them to get the iPhone. Oops...that is my choice isn't it?
Reply
Reply
post #75 of 239
7/19/10 at 8:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

I returned my 4G and got an EVO. I don't use cases on my phones. That is just a personal preference of mine. I also don't feel like I should have to use a case or bumper to have a fully function phone.....

How's the Evo working out for you? It's one of the phones people have shown to have attenuation issues when "held wrong."
Reply
Reply
post #76 of 239
7/19/10 at 8:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

How was a person supposed to know they had a weak signal? They had 5 bars. I'm not misrepresenting the issue AT ALL. I'm only relaying everything I've seen and read. Are you going to tell everyone who posted a video on it that they're misrepresenting the issue? Listen to yourself.

I guess now at least with the new update, they can see more clearly they don't have a strong signal...

BTW, how am I misrepresenting the issue when clearly I've said numerous times that a bumper or case along with the software update is enough of a resolution?

You're misrepresenting it because you know, I know, we all know about the bar algorithm issue, but you are pretending as though the pre-fix bars are indicative of how much signal the phone can lose, when we all know they are not. Maybe you're just a confused thinker, which I think is the case, but the whole thing about it "losing signal" without qualifying the statement, or quantifying how much, is a misrepresentation
Reply
Reply
post #77 of 239
7/19/10 at 8:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Again, it will only do this, as tests have indicated, if you are already in an area where there is a very weak signal. Anecdotes are trumped by actual data, and the data indicate that the issue is not affecting significant number of users in a significant way. If your iP4 -- it's not a 4G, by the way -- was dropping calls in an area of strong signal, then it isn't because of this issue.

He said he could reproduce the issue by just naturally holding his phone. Not by running an app, or by using it upside down, or whatever other possible cause you can think of. It was caused by naturally holding his phone, and in the Apple store no less. I've never been to an Apple store where their display phones didn't have excellent service, but it's still possible that particular store didn't have good service (but how can you tell when the bars are displayed incorrectly.)

Look, this guy has given his story and you tell him basically it doesn't matter because other data says it's a non issue. That's kind of arrogant. You're basically calling him a liar, or too stupid to know why he's wrong.
Reply
Reply
post #78 of 239
7/19/10 at 8:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

You're misrepresenting it because you know, I know, we all know about the bar algorithm issue, but you are pretending as though the pre-fix bars are indicative of how much signal the phone can lose, when we all know they are not. Maybe you're just a confused thinker, which I think is the case, but the whole thing about it "losing signal" without qualifying the statement, or quantifying how much, is a misrepresentation

I didn't write the algorithm, Apple did. Apple tested it, they worked with it, they released it that way.

A dropped call is a dropped call, regardless of how your algorithm works.
Reply
Reply
post #79 of 239
7/19/10 at 8:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogerman2000 View Post

And how many users of other devices do you know who complained en masse about signal loss/attenuation issue before the Iphone 4?

Were Blackberry users complaining? No Are they now? No

Were Palm(HP) users complaining? No Are they now? No

Were Android* -- Motorola--Samsung-- LG-- users complaining? No Are they now? No

Were Iphone users complaining? no* Are they now? Yes You see the difference, right? .

Actually, there's no difference - at least none that anyone has been able to demonstrate.

For you to prove your point, you'd have to show data that iPhone users are complaining in any greater numbers than other phone users. So far, you haven't done so.

The iPhone 'problem' got a lot more visibility because of irresponsible bloggers, but that doesn't mean it's any more real.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

While I do agree with you on most of what you said......I just don't a lot peopel complaining about dropped calls and signal loss on the other phones makers.

You must have your head in the sand, then. People complain about dropped calls on ALL carriers.

Do you have evidence that the iPhone drops more calls UNDER THE SAME CONDITIONS as other phones?

To some extent, the sensitivity of the iPhone 4 hurts it - it is able to place a call in some very weak signal locations where other phones wouldn't connect in the first place. It would be interesting to see dropped call figures in a controlled environment. Oh, wait. Apple did that in a $100 M test lab and found that the iPhone has better than average reception.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

They released a phone to the public that would drop your call if you touched it, literally.

As opposed to other phones that drop calls if you don't do anything?

Do you have any evidence that the iPhone has more of a problem than other phones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

I returned my 4G and got an EVO. I don't use cases on my phones. That is just a personal preference of mine. I also don't feel like I should have to use a case or bumper to have a fully function phone.....

Good for you. I hope you're happy. Are you going to come back here and report it when your EVO drops calls?
Reply
Reply
post #80 of 239
7/19/10 at 8:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malligator View Post

Do you have the mental and physical dexterity to not put the tip of your finger on that one spot?

Come on... That's not fair to imply that because someone lacks uninhibited cognitive functions, that they are physically impaired as well.

The musculature could be 100% normal, the neural receptors just might not be recieving data. This would explain the inability to grasp the inherent physicality of using a f@$king 4 inch touch screen and failing to apply the same principles less than an inch to the side.

In fact patients with this condition are at heightened risk of drowning. While the finger is stuck without neural input on the tiny line, the head is slightly tilted back, mouth agape while the suffering waits for a few moments for something to blink on the screen. In areas with high precipitation, this position leaves them vulnerable to rainfall entering the mouth, accumulating in the lung and resulting in drowning.

The only know cure is to separate the head from the body. Note that in many cases, after this proceedure the patient will run around aimlessly making horrible noises similar to a loud infant crying and bumping into things. This side effect is known as "buying a piece of crap, off-brand, knock-off device".
Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › HTC, Samsung also take issue with Apple's antenna claims