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Tense Apple-AT&T iPhone partnership nearly ended multiple times - Page 2

post #41 of 154
It's so sad that tech news has modeled itself after political news on Fox and MSNBC. Religion politics tech.
2011 13" 2.3 MBP, 2006 15" 2.16 MBP, iPhone 4, iPod Shuffle, AEBS, AppleTV2 with XBMC.
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2011 13" 2.3 MBP, 2006 15" 2.16 MBP, iPhone 4, iPod Shuffle, AEBS, AppleTV2 with XBMC.
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post #42 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post

All partnerships have issues. Each wants what is best for their customers.....sometimes they are in conflict.

Welcome to Business 101.

Each want what is best for their shareholders. Jobs said so much on Friday.
As a T customer and shareholder, I get much more satisfaction from my dividends than from my services.
post #43 of 154
I don't think Sam quite gets the distinction between a "report" and an "article".
post #44 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

They do rent on occasions though:





That might be resolved with Verizon switching to GSM:

http://www.gsmworld.com/newsroom/pre.../2010/5105.htm

GSM is a far more prevalent network format so it makes more sense for Verizon to go GSM so that the same iPhone can work on both networks.

This is not a suit, it's a tuxedo.
post #45 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Funny how the people who criticize Apple for 'form over function' jump on Jobs for what he wears.

Did I say anything about form over function? It was more a statement about etiquette verses arrogance.

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post #46 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post

All partnerships have issues. Each wants what is best for their customers.....sometimes they are in conflict.

Welcome to Business 101.

AT&T wants what's best for it's customers? On what planet?
post #47 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

I completely agree that "We're Apple. We don't wear suits. We don't even own suits." needs to be their new slogan. Seriously.

Maybe it is time for AT&T's board to take that stick out of their collective a******? Who in the real world cares about suits and ties. Apple save AT&T from itself and this is how they repay them?

If AT&T spent as much time fixing its netowork as worrying about who wears what the network would actually work and perform as concived.

oh well

JDS
post #48 of 154
Another fine article contributed by and supports with copious quotes from Anonymous. Anyone who has been on the teh internets know of the lauded and imppecable source (not to mention widsom and source of pithy and pointed quotes) that is teh Anonymous.

That aside let's look at some of these lovely responses:

Quote:
The Sooner the Better.

Perhaps for Apple, not for Verizon. However Verizon wants this in a kind of love/hate sort of way - they NEED to recover the defectors over at ATT on iPhones, but they know what to expect in partnering with Apple - a tough partner who doesn't give ground easily on the usual excuses. You know the exec's from both companies do cocktails and talk about this stuff all the time.

Quote:
What about T-Mobile?

Ahhh - you must mean the T-Mobile that has a whopping 12% of the US carrier market, just recently over-taken by Sprint Nextel at 12.1%, and compares to Verizon (31%) and ATT (25%) in totally obscure ways not reflected by marketshare I guess. Oh wait it must be the coverage... orrrr not. Yep not.


Quote:
Jobs looks stupid...

By far the most erudite and senstive comment made thus far. I can only image the hours spent by the commenter in front of the mirror primping a proper corporate Brooks Brothers uniform for the trip to the office. I work in a Fortune 50 company and that statement was so off the wall that I ran it past the whole crew here - thanks for the humor - you made a lot of people very amused today.

Quote:
I bet Verizon won't.

I want to play cards with you. Really. Verizon has lost a chunk of subscribers to ATT because of the iPhone, and the Android framework has not captured the consumer mindset by storm as they had hoped. And Verizon is being slow at getting updates out for the Android kit as it is. No, if they can craft a deal with Apple for the iPhone to regain their losses to ATT you KNOW they will go there. Wearing jeans and mock-turtlenecks if needed to get the job done.

So yeah, I love good fiction - rocky lovestories especially, and this is both.
post #49 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSF View Post

I bet Verizon won't!

Please Verizon has done everything but get on there knees, and I don't mean to beg Steve Jobs.
post #50 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Did I say anything about form over function? It was more a statement about etiquette verses arrogance.

Arrogance is to tell Jobs to wear a suit when seeing your BoD (AT&T's arrogance) or that he doesn't understand what appropriate attire is to meet with a BoD given he's on the BoD of Disney (your arrogance).
post #51 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Did I say anything about form over function? It was more a statement about etiquette verses arrogance.

Is it more arrogant to expect jeans and a business casual shirt, or a Brooks Brothers suit and tie?

Moreover, referencing the LARGE photo of Jobs in a tuxedo (uber suit for those of you who haven't ever seen one), it appears that Mr. Jobs in fact knows how to dress situationally appropriate when needed.

If you are hopeless wedded to large corporate culture, memes and standards then yes, I guess you would be excessively concerned about "etiquette" versus getting business done. And before you launch into some silly cross-cultural diatribe to defend this silliness, my company is a global Fortune 50, we work seamlessly across the globe dressed in business casual no matter what global region we are in. The only ones for whom the dress code are a preoccupation are those whose jobs are tertiary to the actual business here, and our customer facing teams. Executive management is relaxed and powerful without the Brooks Brothers crutches. Why would you require Apple to adopt another cultural dress-code out of respect for them than expect them to adopt Apple's?
post #52 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxapple View Post

This is not a suit, it's a tuxedo.

A tuxedo is also known as a dinner suit...one that was popularized at the Tuxedo Park Club...
post #53 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

That AT&T employee was allegedly told, "We're Apple. We don't wear suits. We don't even own suits."

Except the suits who kicked down Jason Chen's door! ZING!
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post #54 of 154
My gosh, all this petty crap about suits and blue jeans and this slips by without comment?

"The report also said that AT&T took issue with the fact that the iPhone uses a radio from Infineon, a company that previously had been most widely used in Europe, where cell towers are more common. AT&T allegedly felt that Apple's use of an Infineon chip led to inferior reception. When the wireless carrier asked Apple to resolve the issues "together," it was said that Apple's response was, "No, you resolve them. They're not our problem. They're your problem." "

If you choose to believe the other pieces of the article how can this be ignored? iPhone reception issues, long blamed on AT&T, now not only point to suspect antenna engineering but also to Apple's poor chip selection for the US market?
post #55 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by LewysBlackmore View Post

, my company is a global Fortune 50, we work seamlessly across the globe dressed in business casual no matter what global region we are in.

You must be very proud of your Fortune 50 global company as you have mentioned it twice in the last 10 minutes. Please tell which company that is so I can google the photos of your upper management in business casual attire.

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post #56 of 154
This idea that Verizon has lost a ton of subscribers to AT&T because of the iPhone is thrown around, but I never see a source to back it up. Verizon has continued to grow and continues to have more subscribers than AT&T in the US. Can anyone point me to a real analysis that shows that Verizon has lost customers?

On Android, the longer Apple delays moving past AT&T, the stronger/better Android becomes. The numbers do show that Android is catching up fast to the iPhone both in sales (activating 160,000 a day) and use (ad imprints, web metrics). Both Apple and Verizon may have to make some concessions for this deal to be made, but it needs to be made.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LewysBlackmore View Post

I want to play cards with you. Really. Verizon has lost a chunk of subscribers to ATT because of the iPhone, and the Android framework has not captured the consumer mindset by storm as they had hoped. And Verizon is being slow at getting updates out for the Android kit as it is. No, if they can craft a deal with Apple for the iPhone to regain their losses to ATT you KNOW they will go there. Wearing jeans and mock-turtlenecks if needed to get the job done.

So yeah, I love good fiction - rocky lovestories especially, and this is both.
post #57 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Jobs would probably show up to a funeral dressed like that.

Well, he showed up at the Oscars in a tuxedo.
post #58 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The report also said that AT&T took issue with the fact that the iPhone uses a radio from Infineon, a company that previously had been most widely used in Europe, where cell towers are more common. AT&T allegedly felt that Apple's use of an Infineon chip led to inferior reception. When the wireless carrier asked Apple to resolve the issues "together," it was said that Apple's response was, "No, you resolve them. They're not our problem. They're your problem."

If true, this would further confirm Apple's disinterest in reception. Maybe I could make calls in 3G mode if San Francisco if Apple had used a better radio.
post #59 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by LewysBlackmore View Post

Ahhh - you must mean the T-Mobile that has a whopping 12% of the US carrier market, just recently over-taken by Sprint Nextel at 12.1%, and compares to Verizon (31%) and ATT (25%) in totally obscure ways not reflected by marketshare I guess. Oh wait it must be the coverage... orrrr not. Yep not.

Nobody said, Apple should have gone to T-mobile INSTEAD of to AT&T. Surely, the combined coverage of AT&T and T-mobile cannot be smaller than that of AT&T alone.
For some people in some areas T-mobile coverage is better than AT&T's, those would be better off with T-mobile.
post #60 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by freddych View Post

AT&T wants nothing for their customers. Seems like Apple's the only one on our side.

I wouldn't call Apple exactly on our side. They're own their own. If it furthers their agenda, we're free to tag along. If not, they're all too willing to dump customers.
post #61 of 154
I love the suit comment. Apple is so right. Die corporate thinking, die !!!

Business suits are so 20th century. Actually some guy came up with the idea in the 19th century !!! At the industrial revolution, because people, not always very aware of the hygiene concept, were coming from their farms to work in the cities. So one bright manager had the idea to impose a standardize dressing, let s call it business suit ... more like a carnival costume.

And the habit staid for the decades to come ... just imagine how ridiculous we would look like to
some one coming from another planet ...
"What's this piece of fabric hanging from your neck for ?"
"It s a what ? A tie ?"
"I bet it there to tie you in to standard corporate thinking"

I have to say, whenever I go in a bank or insurance, or whatever, if the guy talking to me is dressed like that, the suit, the tie, the shiny shoes and everything, my instinct is telling me to be very suspicious. This guy is not doing it out of respect for me, but only to give himself an edge over me, to look superior, I find it actually extremely arrogant.

Just be patient, when Generation X, Y and Z will reach control of the world, for better of for worth,
those sort of silly habits will be shaken hard.
post #62 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadash View Post

This idea that Verizon has lost a ton of subscribers to AT&T because of the iPhone is thrown around, but I never see a source to back it up. Verizon has continued to grow and continues to have more subscribers than AT&T in the US. Can anyone point me to a real analysis that shows that Verizon has lost customers?

On Android, the longer Apple delays moving past AT&T, the stronger/better Android becomes. The numbers do show that Android is catching up fast to the iPhone both in sales (activating 160,000 a day) and use (ad imprints, web metrics). Both Apple and Verizon may have to make some concessions for this deal to be made, but it needs to be made.

Verizon purchased Alltel after the first iPhone came out and that alone boosted their subscription base 20%. For several quaters now data has shown AT&T growth higher than that of Verizon. Verizon actually lost money in Q4 last year. Here's Q4 last year, Q1 this year also shows greater subscriber growth at T.

http://gigaom.com/2010/03/04/u-s-mob...e-still-rocks/
post #63 of 154
"AT&T allegedly felt that Apple's use of an Infineon chip led to inferior reception."


interesting. but the blame is always on ATT


LOL!!!


post #64 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

You must be very proud of your Fortune 50 global company as you have mentioned it twice in the last 10 minutes. Please tell which company that is so I can google the photos of your upper management in business casual attire.

No matter how you twist it, what your saying is just silly. Sure enough Apples shareholders, employees, suppliers, business partners or Jobs himself don't give a rats ass how he dresses, or how arrogant he is for not wearing a suit, the guy is making all of them boatloads of money. Not to mention the ten digit figure he likely sees on his account statements. Methinks you're just a little jealous that Jobs is so successful he doesn't have to play the stupid etiquette game, or maybe you're just desperately trying to suck up to the suits at work to get higher up using appearances instead of skills yourself?

Personally, in all the jobs I've worked in, it's usually the people who refuse to do stuff 'just because' that get the job done.
post #65 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by voodooru View Post

"AT&T allegedly felt that Apple's use of an Infineon chip led to inferior reception."


interesting. but the blame is always on ATT


LOL!!!




When all the AT&T phones in my family, Apple, LG, Pantech and RIM all show NO SERVICE while sitting in a restaurant located in a major metropolitan city, I don't think that's an Infineon problem.

AT&T has built a network for minimal standards. Now that customer expectations have increased, AT&T can't close the gap quick enough not to look like idiots.
post #66 of 154
I'm sure these are all those anonymous sources who reported the Verizon iPad, or the Verizon iPhone that has been due out since Christmas if 2007. As much fun as it is to hate on AT&T, I can't personally just embrace whatever rumor is spewed out by the media when so much has proven to be complete bull**** over the last 6 months.

I also love the part about Apple using an inferior chip and telling AT&T that it is their problem...the iPhones antenna performance has been criticized of being weak before, I would like to think that Apple would at least be willing to work on something. I have said multiple times...I have issues with my iPhone that I NEVER have with my Blackberry Bold (dropped calls and issues switching from 2G to 3G, etc). To me it shows that Apple is comfortable with their customers having a sub par experience, as long as there is someone else to blame.

AT&T: "hey, you're phone is having some issues connecting to our network, let's figure something out."
Apple: "no, you're network is having issues connecting to our phone, end of story."

I can totally see this being the stance Apple would take, as much as I wish that were not true.

Again though, I have doubts that a lot of this stuff is even true...so...
post #67 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by business wisdom

All partnerships have issues. Each wants what is best for themselves .....sometimes they are in conflict.

Welcome to Business 101.

There, fixed it for you.
post #68 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Povilas View Post

"We're Apple. We don't wear suits. We don't even own suits." good slogan

It is extremely unlikely that no Apple employee owns even a single suit. I guess slogans don't have to be true in order to sound good.
post #69 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by glui2001 View Post

Apple really holds the majority of the cards here. Other carriers will likely drop their pants and bend over backwards should Apple shop around for a new carrier.

I think you've got it wrong here.

If they dropped their pants and bent over *backwards* then they are in the power position. I think you meant bend over *forwards*.
post #70 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by StLBluesFan View Post

M"The report also said that AT&T took issue with the fact that the iPhone uses a radio from Infineon, a company that previously had been most widely used in Europe, where cell towers are more common. AT&T allegedly felt that Apple's use of an Infineon chip led to inferior reception. When the wireless carrier asked Apple to resolve the issues "together," it was said that Apple's response was, "No, you resolve them. They're not our problem. They're your problem." "

If you choose to believe the other pieces of the article how can this be ignored? iPhone reception issues, long blamed on AT&T, now not only point to suspect antenna engineering but also to Apple's poor chip selection for the US market?

One can ignore it because it's all BS from an anonymous source.

Lots of other companies use Infineon. Why is it that Infineon chips get OK reception on other networks? Why is it that non-Infineon chips don't get good reception on AT&T?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

It is extremely unlikely that no Apple employee owns even a single suit. I guess slogans don't have to be true in order to sound good.

True, but even if every single Apple employee owned a suit, 'we don't even own suits' would be just as true for Apple as "do no evil" is for Google.
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post #71 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxapple View Post

This is not a suit, it's a tuxedo.

and your point is
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post #72 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post

All partnerships have issues. Each wants what is best for their customers.....sometimes they are in conflict.

Welcome to Business 101.

I couldn't disagree more strongly. Apple was bringing AT&T customers. AT&T was worrying about suits being worn to meetings, which has nothing to do with improving anything for AT&T customers.

Issues of corporate culture tend to have very little to do with customers and everything to do with power and ego. I hope AT&T goes down in flames when Apple opens up the iPhone to multiple carriers.
post #73 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by StLBluesFan View Post

Verizon purchased Alltel after the first iPhone came out and that alone boosted their subscription base 20%. For several quaters now data has shown AT&T growth higher than that of Verizon. Verizon actually lost money in Q4 last year. Here's Q4 last year, Q1 this year also shows greater subscriber growth at T.

http://gigaom.com/2010/03/04/u-s-mob...e-still-rocks/

AT&T having greater subscriber growth doesn't equal Verizon losing customers , which is the data he was requesting.

Also, "Head-to-head after stripping out reseller and wholesale net additions, Verizon reported 1.2 million net additions in 4Q09 against AT&Ts 900,000"
post #74 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post

All partnerships have issues. Each wants what is best for their customers.....sometimes they are in conflict.

Welcome to Business 101.

You're telling me AT&T wants what's best for me? That's going to take some convincing on your part.
post #75 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleZilla View Post

Because of the $20 tethering rip-off, I opted to keep my grandfathered unlimited plan.

Anyway, there is so much Wi-Fi in the world now, that I just don't have a great need for the luxury of tethering.

Meanwhile, I am 3G streaming music and video night and day. Try to cap my data to 2GB or less, will ya...

Tethering on AT&T is not part of the unlimited plan (even though it should be) either. I understand wanting to keep your unlimited plan but don't understand the mentality related to $20 tethering.
post #76 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2oh1 View Post

I couldn't disagree more strongly. Apple was bringing AT&T customers. AT&T was worrying about suits being worn to meetings, which has nothing to do with improving anything for AT&T customers.

Issues of corporate culture tend to have very little to do with customers and everything to do with power and ego. I hope AT&T goes down in flames when Apple opens up the iPhone to multiple carriers.

That would pretty much make you an a$$hole then., wishing roughly 400,000 folks out of work.

Ignorant people hoping other businesses fail. Get a grip.
post #77 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by st3v3 View Post

AT&T having greater subscriber growth doesn't equal Verizon losing customers , which is the data he was requesting.

Also, "Head-to-head after stripping out reseller and wholesale net additions, Verizon reported 1.2 million net additions in 4Q09 against AT&Ts 900,000"

Which means what? Do you even know?
post #78 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I agree with AT&T on this one. Jobs looks stupid in that same outfit day after day and the other guys just look really uncomfortable dressed like that. It doesn't fit their personalities. Appropriate attire is showing respect for your partners and vendors. Jobs would probably show up to a funeral dressed like that. He doesn't appear to give a rat's ass about anyone but himself. Oh I forgot, he 'loves' his users.


Aww C'mon man. That's why I rock this name.

I don't know. If I could be a rockstar I think I would. Although I've worn suits a few times. Feels like I'm wearing it to make my parents happy. Obviously Steve doesn't care. Why should he? It's good to throw off the suits (pun) in the boardroom. It might piss them off, but if you are Steve fraking Jobs then you can get away with it and use that image to your advantage.

Creative people are really touchy about their appearance. I am. I hate wearing suits Just look at Lady ga ga. I'd rather she wear suits as well, but then I don't believe she would be anything other than one of those annoying perfume girls at Neiman Marcus.
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post #79 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 cents View Post

You're telling me AT&T wants what's best for me? That's going to take some convincing on your part.

Neither Apple nor AT&T wants what's best for you. Seriously.
post #80 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

You guys in the US really are in a mess with this while AT&T aren't you. Here in the UK the iPhone is on 5 carriers now, with the previous exclusive carrier (O2) having lost their exclusivity some time ago now. I gather many other countries also have a choice of carriers with the iPhone, so what's gone wrong in the US? Why are you stuck with only one choice? Is this an uncommon situation or are most phones locked down like this in the US?

This is what happens when the government (well, EU) decides what mobile technology we'll be using - Increased competition due to ease of network switching. The US is what happens when the "Free Market" is left to decide standards - lots of lock in.

Who's afraid of the big bad government?

As for a Verizon iPhone - I predict it will happen in March 2012. Since I'm now officially an analyist can I have my million dollars please?
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