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Tense Apple-AT&T iPhone partnership nearly ended multiple times - Page 3

post #81 of 154
7/19/10 at 1:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I agree with AT&T on this one. Jobs looks stupid in that same outfit day after day and the other guys just look really uncomfortable dressed like that. It doesn't fit their personalities. Appropriate attire is showing respect for your partners and vendors. Jobs would probably show up to a funeral dressed like that. He doesn't appear to give a rat's ass about anyone but himself. Oh I forgot, he 'loves' his users.

I suppose this is an illusion: Steve Jobs at Oscars.
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post #82 of 154
7/19/10 at 1:36pm
Anonymous source, huh! A true story or total crap with no merit only designed to sensationalize and inrease hits to a website? I dunno.

If true, and I got that "we don't own suits" crack, I would have said 'Tell Jobs to wear that black tux he wears with no problem when he pals around at award shows with his elitist Hollywood gang then, okay!

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #83 of 154
7/19/10 at 1:44pm
T-Mobile is a given. I suspect before or when Apple goes to Verizon. T-Mobile will add to Apple's bottom line, and T-Mobile is huge overseas (much bigger then Verizon) so Apple will want to make T-Mobile happy here to preserve it's relationships overseas. Further, T-Mobile is more likely to cater to Apple more.

I for one was a Verizon customer and AT&T customer. I now am a T-Mobile customer using an iPhone. Verizon has to be the worst company on the planet. I honestly don't understand why it has so many customers. I would go without a cell phone before I went to Verizon. AT&T probably is in strong running for second worst. As huge an Apple fan I am, I have stood strong and not signed up with AT&T again.

T-Mobile in terms of customer service has been great to me as has the coverage in the populated parts of Michigan. I'd upgrade to the iPhone 4 today if Apple announced it was going to T-Mobile. People forget before the iPhone was on AT&T, AT&T was way behind Verizon in terms of users. The iPhone greatly increased AT&T's user base. If Apple gave T-Mobile a limited window before opening up to Verizon, I suspect APple would do the same for it.

My unlocked iPhone often gets better reception then my friends on AT&T. Further, I don't have to sign up for a data plan, which I don't need since I am usually by a wi-fi network.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quash View Post

Man, where the frak is T-Mobile in these discussions, this is complete bullshit
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post #84 of 154
7/19/10 at 1:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxapple View Post

This is not a suit, it's a tuxedo.

How about this?

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post #85 of 154
7/19/10 at 1:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

Apple should start its own telecom company. Can you imagine calling to complain about your wireless service from Apple telecom and actually getting somewhere? Apple sets the gold standard for customer support - something these telecom giants (read A&TT and Verizon) can learn from. I have wasted countless hours getting nowhere with both of these giant slugs.

You should check out the archive of stories and their associated posts these past few weeks about the antenna and death grip and dropped signal voice and data from some and you might modify slightly your viewpoint.

I liked the post where someone said Apple.com deleted a thread on their website message board regarding negative comments about the iPhone 4. Does that mean as a telecom, Apple would "drop" any negative calls they receive?

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #86 of 154
7/19/10 at 1:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

verizon pre cripples its own networks making sure every one get a tad above shit service
but no one gets dropped calls
to use an iphone on version and stream hulu
get a mifi card or the dongle thing they sell

yet verizon can handle it
verizon can run much of it thru its fios network
fiber
fiber
optic

verizon has really built out nyc

towers and repeaters abound every where except the bayonne nj dead zone

You lost me when you got the the fiber; fiber; optic; verizon can run much of it thru it's fios network, stuffs. Immediately beneath every cell tower is a cable. Backbone capacity isn't the issue with AT&T - it's quite beefy.

-Chris
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post #87 of 154
7/19/10 at 1:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSF View Post

I bet Verizon won't!

I bet they will! Verizon's probably kicking themselves for all the lost billions they could've made if they jumped on board the first time Apple courted them.
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post #88 of 154
7/19/10 at 1:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

How about this?


My God, did he shave????

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #89 of 154
7/19/10 at 1:58pm
Many doctors advocate not wearing ties. They spread illness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kherberos View Post

I love the suit comment. Apple is so right. Die corporate thinking, die !!!

Business suits are so 20th century. Actually some guy came up with the idea in the 19th century !!! At the industrial revolution, because people, not always very aware of the hygiene concept, were coming from their farms to work in the cities. So one bright manager had the idea to impose a standardize dressing, let s call it business suit ... more like a carnival costume.

And the habit staid for the decades to come ... just imagine how ridiculous we would look like to
some one coming from another planet ...
"What's this piece of fabric hanging from your neck for ?"
"It s a what ? A tie ?"
"I bet it there to tie you in to standard corporate thinking"

I have to say, whenever I go in a bank or insurance, or whatever, if the guy talking to me is dressed like that, the suit, the tie, the shiny shoes and everything, my instinct is telling me to be very suspicious. This guy is not doing it out of respect for me, but only to give himself an edge over me, to look superior, I find it actually extremely arrogant.

Just be patient, when Generation X, Y and Z will reach control of the world, for better of for worth,
those sort of silly habits will be shaken hard.
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post #90 of 154
7/19/10 at 2:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCC View Post

Funny, Jobs use to wear suits all the time in the 80's. Bow tie!

Yes, back when Jobs thought Apple had to grow up and be more like a "real company", in need of adult supervision under a "real CEO". This led to his hiring John "sugar water" Sculley.

He learned the error of his ways. Lose the tie.
A is A
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A is A
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post #91 of 154
7/19/10 at 2:09pm
Where did real journalism go?....where they investigate and interview the people that were actually involved?

I feel like I am being scammed once again......all to increase the 'click' counts on these webs sites.

By the way, if this was true, a few billion dollars of profits between friends makes it easy to forget your past differences.
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post #92 of 154
7/19/10 at 2:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

Many doctors advocate not wearing ties. They spread illness.

"Put down that tie, you don't know where it's been."

The causal dress mantra has been around since the early days at Apple. Probably it started as a way of showing how "different" they were from other companies. Part of the culture.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #93 of 154
7/19/10 at 2:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by StLBluesFan View Post

Neither Apple nor AT&T wants what's best for you. Seriously.

The difference between them is that Apple understands that their long term success depends on creating great products and keeping the customers happy.

That is, Apple's success is directly tied to doing what's best for me.
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post #94 of 154
7/19/10 at 2:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post

All partnerships have issues. Each wants what is best for their customers.....sometimes they are in conflict.

Welcome to Business 101.

Maybe for their own self interests, but rarely for their customers.
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post #95 of 154
7/19/10 at 2:22pm
Verizon lost a bunch of money in Q4, but that was a one-time thing related to trimming some fat. Otherwise they are quite profitable.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/27/v...increasing-re/

What is more interesting is the link you provided.
http://gigaom.com/2010/03/04/u-s-mob...e-still-rocks/
It is true that AT&T is growing at a slightly faster rate than Verizon, and if things continue like this, AT&T will eventually catch Verizon. But Verizon's churn rate is slightly below AT&T's, while the rate for Spring and T-Mobile is double that of Verizon or AT&T. Are customers switching from Verizon to AT&T, or is AT&T soaking up customers from the 2 smaller carriers? It looks like the latter to me, but I haven't seen enough information to decide for sure.

From my limited experience, the Verizon customers I know are pretty loyal to that company.



Quote:
Originally Posted by StLBluesFan View Post

Verizon purchased Alltel after the first iPhone came out and that alone boosted their subscription base 20%. For several quaters now data has shown AT&T growth higher than that of Verizon. Verizon actually lost money in Q4 last year. Here's Q4 last year, Q1 this year also shows greater subscriber growth at T.

http://gigaom.com/2010/03/04/u-s-mob...e-still-rocks/
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post #96 of 154
7/19/10 at 2:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruel24 View Post

Maybe for their own self interests, but rarely for their customers.

Self interest gets you nothing if your customers are not well served.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #97 of 154
7/19/10 at 2:27pm
It isn't clear that AT&T's exclusivity with the iPhone has been great for the company (AT&T). In the short term, they have made a lot of money. In the long term, their reputation as a competent company has been severely damaged. Here is a paragraph from the current Wired article on AT&T/Apple making the rounds:

"Much of AT&T’s growth can be attributed to its exclusive arrangement with Apple — if customers want an iPhone, they have no choice but to sign up with AT&T. But someday, when that agreement ends, iPhone customers will have the opportunity to jump to a rival network. If a significant number defect, it will be hard for AT&T to argue that its iPhone experiment was worth it."


Quote:
Originally Posted by glui2001 View Post

I bet they will! Verizon's probably kicking themselves for all the lost billions they could've made if they jumped on board the first time Apple courted them.
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post #98 of 154
7/19/10 at 2:30pm
The guy you are celebrating here is not part of Generation X, Y, or Z. I am part of generation X, and I am not looking forward to us taking over the world. Some great, great things were done by the older generations that you disparage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kherberos View Post

I love the suit comment. Apple is so right. Die corporate thinking, die !!!

Business suits are so 20th century. Actually some guy came up with the idea in the 19th century !!! At the industrial revolution, because people, not always very aware of the hygiene concept, were coming from their farms to work in the cities. So one bright manager had the idea to impose a standardize dressing, let s call it business suit ... more like a carnival costume.

And the habit staid for the decades to come ... just imagine how ridiculous we would look like to
some one coming from another planet ...
"What's this piece of fabric hanging from your neck for ?"
"It s a what ? A tie ?"
"I bet it there to tie you in to standard corporate thinking"

I have to say, whenever I go in a bank or insurance, or whatever, if the guy talking to me is dressed like that, the suit, the tie, the shiny shoes and everything, my instinct is telling me to be very suspicious. This guy is not doing it out of respect for me, but only to give himself an edge over me, to look superior, I find it actually extremely arrogant.

Just be patient, when Generation X, Y and Z will reach control of the world, for better of for worth,
those sort of silly habits will be shaken hard.
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post #99 of 154
7/19/10 at 2:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kherberos View Post

Just be patient, when Generation X, Y and Z will reach control of the world, for better of for worth, those sort of silly habits will be shaken hard.

I started wearing a suit and tie to business meetings when I discovered that they would pay me an extra 100K a year to do it. I don't care what generation you are, if you want to be successful in business, you have to play the game. Go get yourself a cool neck tattoo and a pierced lip ring. You should be able to easily pull down six figures.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #100 of 154
7/19/10 at 2:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxapple View Post

This is not a suit, it's a tuxedo.

Apple disagrees with you:



Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone

Jobs looks stupid in that same outfit day after day and the other guys just look really uncomfortable dressed like that. It doesn't fit their personalities.

I actually think he looks worse in suits, which is probably why he doesn't wear them.

I personally don't like people in suits or wearing suits. To me it suggests someone is being disingenuous. Someone in casual clothes however, they aren't making an attempt to gain my confidence by manipulating my perception of them, they prove themselves by their actions.

Corporate suits will congratulate each other, mimic each other and then stab each other in the back at any given opportunity. Give me a guy in jeans and a turtleneck any day. The respect aspect is dogmatic. You can't show much more respect than simply being polite. Lawyers wear suits and artists wear jeans - if I want to be around people who are passionate and genuine about what they do, I hang around with people in jeans.

People in suits are there because they have to be there, people in jeans are there because they want to be there. I can't think of any situation where I should be wearing a suit that I wouldn't rather be somewhere else.

There are exceptions of course as there are with everything but suits generally don't get my vote.
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post #101 of 154
7/19/10 at 2:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

You should check out the archive of stories and their associated posts these past few weeks about the antenna and death grip and dropped signal voice and data from some and you might modify slightly your viewpoint.

I liked the post where someone said Apple.com deleted a thread on their website message board regarding negative comments about the iPhone 4. Does that mean as a telecom, Apple would "drop" any negative calls they receive?

The site you are referring to is for support questions and answers not a general forum to post opinions, they have every right to delete such posts.
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post #102 of 154
7/19/10 at 2:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Lawyers wear suits and artists wear jeans -

If you were on trial in front of a jury, would you wear a suit? Would you prefer that your lawyer wore a suit to court as well or would having him show up in t-shirt and sandals be just fine?

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #103 of 154
7/19/10 at 2:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadash View Post

Verizon lost a bunch of money in Q4, but that was a one-time thing related to trimming some fat. Otherwise they are quite profitable.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/27/v...increasing-re/

What is more interesting is the link you provided.
http://gigaom.com/2010/03/04/u-s-mob...e-still-rocks/
It is true that AT&T is growing at a slightly faster rate than Verizon, and if things continue like this, AT&T will eventually catch Verizon. But Verizon's churn rate is slightly below AT&T's, while the rate for Spring and T-Mobile is double that of Verizon or AT&T. Are customers switching from Verizon to AT&T, or is AT&T soaking up customers from the 2 smaller carriers? It looks like the latter to me, but I haven't seen enough information to decide for sure.

From my limited experience, the Verizon customers I know are pretty loyal to that company.

I just jumped from T-Mobile to AT&T so I could get an iPhone. If they had the iPhone, I would have stayed.
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post #104 of 154
7/19/10 at 3:00pm
Jobs is an exception to many rules. One of them is dress. Otherwise you get Phil Schiller up there on stage with Jobs, dressed in his hip, casual clothes, looking about as comfortable as I imagine Randall Stephenson would next to Jobs, dressed similarly.

And the definitions in OS X aren't provided by Apple. At the next shareholder's meeting, why don't we ask Steve if Apple has a position on the definition of a tuxedo as a suit! Knowing Steve, he probably would give you his opinion on the matter!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Apple disagrees with you:





I actually think he looks worse in suits, which is probably why he doesn't wear them.

I personally don't like people in suits or wearing suits. To me it suggests someone is being disingenuous. Someone in casual clothes however, they aren't making an attempt to gain my confidence by manipulating my perception of them, they prove themselves by their actions.

Corporate suits will congratulate each other, mimic each other and then stab each other in the back at any given opportunity. Give me a guy in jeans and a turtleneck any day. The respect aspect is dogmatic. You can't show much more respect than simply being polite. Lawyers wear suits and artists wear jeans - if I want to be around people who are passionate and genuine about what they do, I hang around with people in jeans.

People in suits are there because they have to be there, people in jeans are there because they want to be there. I can't think of any situation where I should be wearing a suit that I wouldn't rather be somewhere else.

There are exceptions of course as there are with everything but suits generally don't get my vote.
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post #105 of 154
7/19/10 at 3:01pm
What is your reception like compared to AT&T? When I was on T-Mobile I don't remember having problems, but I wasn't nearly as demanding as I am now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by duaneu2 View Post

I just jumped from T-Mobile to AT&T so I could get an iPhone. If they had the iPhone, I would have stayed.
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post #106 of 154
7/19/10 at 3:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadash View Post

What is your reception like compared to AT&T? When I was on T-Mobile I don't remember having problems, but I wasn't nearly as demanding as I am now.

I'm in the Seattle area and I've had no reception problems with either company. I preferred T-Mobile because their voice plan was cheaper. I use very few minutes every month, so I liked the $29.99 plan. AT&T's cheapest plan is $10 more for 450 minutes - way more than I'll ever use in a month.
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post #107 of 154
7/19/10 at 3:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

To me, this confirms the rumors that Apple has had a Verizon compatible phone waiting in the wings for some time now. They couldn't play chicken with AT&T without having that option ready.

edit:
And on second thought, maybe it confirms exactly the opposite. That Apple has put up with AT&T only because they don't have a Verizon solution.


Verizon, by all accounts, is worse than AT&T. They wouldn't even give Apple the time of day.
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post #108 of 154
7/19/10 at 3:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I started wearing a suit and tie to business meetings when I discovered that they would pay me an extra 100K a year to do it. I don't care what generation you are, if you want to be successful in business, you have to play the game. Go get yourself a cool neck tattoo and a pierced lip ring. You should be able to easily pull down six figures.

Are you a male formalwear fashion model? Otherwise, it says volumes about your company.
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post #109 of 154
7/19/10 at 3:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter02l View Post

Are you a male formalwear fashion model? Otherwise, it says volumes about your company.

Commission baby!

Unshaven guy in jeans: Please, please buy our product. I'll give you a discount.
Client: No thanks.


Trim guy in suit: I'd like to sell you our product but I can't give any discounts.
Client: That's ok when can we take delivery?

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #110 of 154
7/19/10 at 3:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter02l View Post

Verizon, by all accounts, is worse than AT&T. They wouldn't even give Apple the time of day.

Maybe because Jobs did not wear a suit.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #111 of 154
7/19/10 at 3:53pm
The Wired article should make for some interesting questions during AT&T's earnings call on Thursday morning. What the article alluded to but didn't really explain was that a lot of the problems have to do with antiquated backhaul infrastructure (backhaul refers to the bandwidth supplied to a cell tower site) and a lack of available licensed wireless spectrum for transmitting from towers to handsets.

AT&T can spend to improve backhaul -- it spent nearly $2 billion last year adding fiber and more T-1 lines to sites in San Francisco and New York alone -- but it is going to have to wait to get more spectrum, and in the meantime it will continue to deny there's a problem and sell you another iPhone.

Do users care? Are they figuring this out? How fast would they leave if Verizon got the iPhone? All questions to be answered...
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post #112 of 154
7/19/10 at 4:00pm
.....
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post #113 of 154
7/19/10 at 4:02pm
Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak used to sell "blue boxes" that let you make free long distance calls over AT&T's network. That was before Apple was founded. The irony, of course is that the same man responsible for sending AT&T millions of new customers (including myself) once sold products that let people steal from AT&T.
"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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post #114 of 154
7/19/10 at 4:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

You guys in the US really are in a mess with this while AT&T aren't you. Here in the UK the iPhone is on 5 carriers now, with the previous exclusive carrier (O2) having lost their exclusivity some time ago now. I gather many other countries also have a choice of carriers with the iPhone, so what's gone wrong in the US? Why are you stuck with only one choice? Is this an uncommon situation or are most phones locked down like this in the US?


I was just in the UK, your cell services are nothing special - the quantity over quality approach isn't providing any greater benefit.

We just have a much bigger population which yields a greater number of whiners and a much, much bigger geographic area to consider. Now if you were talking about carrier service specifically in the Hawaiian Islands, then maybe a fair comparison could be made.
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post #115 of 154
7/19/10 at 4:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by glui2001 View Post

Apple really holds the majority of the cards here. Other carriers will likely drop their pants and bend over backwards should Apple shop around for a new carrier.

Actually Verizon has already stated they have been over the iPhone. They are all about Android phones now, and it has been great business for them. Why should they drop their pants for the iPhone when even Steve Jobs finally admits android is outselling the iPhone. That would be dumb. Android is growing more popular every day and since we are getting technology like wifi hotspots over a year ahead of Apple, why would we want to switch?
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post #116 of 154
7/19/10 at 4:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by StLBluesFan View Post

"The report also said that AT&T took issue with the fact that the iPhone uses a radio from Infineon, a company that previously had been most widely used in Europe, where cell towers are more common. AT&T allegedly felt that Apple's use of an Infineon chip led to inferior reception. When the wireless carrier asked Apple to resolve the issues "together," it was said that Apple's response was, "No, you resolve them. They're not our problem. They're your problem." "

If you choose to believe the other pieces of the article how can this be ignored? iPhone reception issues, long blamed on AT&T, now not only point to suspect antenna engineering but also to Apple's poor chip selection for the US market?

Didn't someone whine about "form over function?" Yet we know that the antenna engineer who designed the iPhone 4's antenna told Management that it was going to be a problem long before the design went gold. And now we know that Apple chose a radio chip that is known to work poorly in non-optimal signal areas, and knew it, and went ahead with it anyway.

Bottom line: Knowing all this, if you buy an iPhone, you deserve crappy service.
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post #117 of 154
7/19/10 at 4:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icesnake View Post

Didn't someone whine about "form over function?" Yet we know that the antenna engineer who designed the iPhone 4's antenna told Management that it was going to be a problem long before the design went gold. And now we know that Apple chose a radio chip that is known to work poorly in non-optimal signal areas, and knew it, and went ahead with it anyway.

Bottom line: Knowing all this, if you buy an iPhone, you deserve crappy service.

Scruffy seconds that.
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post #118 of 154
7/19/10 at 4:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

Apple sets the gold standard for customer support

Sure they do. That's why the answer to the iPhone 4 antenna misdesign problem is "don't hold it that way."
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post #119 of 154
7/19/10 at 4:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

Is this an uncommon situation or are most phones locked down like this in the US?

In the USA, cell phones are usually locked to a single carrier. You can thank the GOBP for that, they've controlled the House and Senate most of the time when anyone was paying attention to what the cell carriers were doing, and the GOBP is more interested in fat profits for monopolists than they are in the good of the American people.
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post #120 of 154
7/19/10 at 4:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by StLBluesFan View Post

That would pretty much make you an a$$hole then., wishing roughly 400,000 folks out of work.

Ignorant people hoping other businesses fail. Get a grip.

If AT&T goes down, someone will buy their assets and it's almost certain the AT&T network will not be shut off. Someone will have to maintain all that stuff - and it's pretty unlikely you'll see the new owners getting 400,000 H-1B visas to import a bunch of low-wage workers to replace the people in place now.
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