Apple profits soar 77% on record sales of 3.47 million Macs - Page 2

No, actually, you lose. We never get to vote our shares for or against a dividend, but I suppose you didn't know that.

Either way, I never do seem to get a response to substance of the matter, which tells me a lot about who gets it and who doesn't.

Come on! Everyone knows it's because they're saving up to buy Microsoft

I don't know if this was responded to yet, but Apple addressed that in the call.

Apple stopped supplying 3GS models a couple of weeks before the iPhone 4 announcement. They estimate that they would have sold about 250,000 more phones this quarter if they hadn't.

PC sales go up as well, though not as much.

Apple now has $47 billion in the bank approx.

MS gives about a 2% dividend, about $0.52 per share. Considering the price of the stock, that would be about $5.00 for Apple's stock. In other words, the same amount.

I think they should have bought Palm. The $600 million bid was like bidding low on eBay. You hope no one else bids, and you win at the lw price.

First, the methodology in that survey is bogus. it's not a measure of market share at all - just a measure of how many people hit a given set of sites.

For market share, you can look at publicly released figures:

1. Growth rate of Mac sales
2. Growth rate of all PC sales

As long as 1 is growing faster than 2, Apple's market share is growing - and it has been for quite some time. The latest quarter will be another quarter of growing market share.


They should only return the cash to the shareholders if they don't conceive of any better way to invest it. Apple has apparently decided that they want cash on hand both for potential acquisitions and so that they don't have to cut back on R&D and other investments if sales slow down.

Frankly, I trust Apple to know what to do with their money more than some random person whining on AI about wanting a dividend. If you want a dividend, buy utility stocks.

No, I will.

We've been discussing this for a long time.

I wonder if it would have been worth that much to Apple. I suspect not, which is why they didn't go for it.


Speaking of random whiners...

Again, a complete lack of substance.

PC sales are growing pretty fast overall too, primarily in the cheap netbook segments - look at the growth of ASUS and Acer - both massively outstripping Apple in units, share and growth rate. Obviously these are much lower revenue and margin items but in terms of getting new PC units out there into consumer hands, they both are doing a great job. While this low end is growing so fast, there is no way that Apple will see an appreciable increase in its share of units.

Yup, I know. And each time the subject returns, Apple has another $4-5b in cash reserves piled on top of the mountain of cash they already cannot spend responsibly for growing the company. So the question doesn't go away, it just becomes the progressively larger elephant in the room.

The substance of the matter is that it is a very well-researched topic in financial economics. Dividend payers do tend to throw out a lot of cash, yes, but the evidence also shows that they generally tend to be mature, steady cash flow, low-beta businesses. Apple runs the genuine risk -- it is not certain, however -- of signaling that it might fall into that category. That would not be a good thing for a company that is growing at it's pace and will need to sustain fairly substantial growth to justify even its current prices, let alone what the analysts are currently forecasting.

I'd be happy to give you references. (Although, I am traveling at the moment, and it will have to wait a couple of days).

I have no problem with the notion hat Apple could return some sizable smount of cash to shareholders. But it can do so through a special dividend or even a share repurchase (the only sellers would be those who think that Apple has peaked at that price or those who desire the liquidity).

True. I probably should have kept my mouth shut. Too late. \

Palm's over 400 patents would have been worth it. But Apple just doesn't want to go that high for much of anything, I guess. It would have given them more of a lock on the tech they use. Possibly some good OS API's as well.

I'm beginning to wonder though if Apple could part with some of the monthly accumulations it seems to be regularly sucking in. It is beginning to look as though Apple won't be able to spend most of this.

What are they planning? Are they planning anything? I know earlier during the recession they said that the cash was a fallback, and I believe that they were right. At that time, we had no idea as to how deep this recession would become, or how long it would go on.

Right now however, it looks as though it's slowly moving back to normalcy. We'll get bumps in that road, but it doesn't look as though we'll slip into depression as it looked as though we may. Even the European credit crisis seems to be leveling out. Unemployment is down in 39 states. Spending is slightly up. Do they still need that much of a reserve?

Apple's R&D is just about, as of last quarter, 3.5% of sales. That's pretty low, so they aren't using it there. Their server farm will be complete as of the end of the year, so the big expense associated with that will be over, and they will be using it, to add to sales.

So, what's next? $10 billion in disbursement would be a good amount. And I now am beginning to think a 1 to 2% dividend wouldn't hurt.

Eh!

We can discuss this every quarter.

No need if you know how to buy and sell the stock based on ridiculous media stories and rumours!

Who is "they?" Apple?

I don't necessarily want to rehash this, but I think at some point it becomes incumbent on those who believe paying a dividend is a horrible thing to show how Apple could responsibly spend as much cash as they've accumulated on growing their business, which in the end, is the only issue that actually matters. And please, don't throw out vague apocalyptic scenarios for how they might need it when their business collapses.

Every time the subject comes up, I also ask: how much is enough? A year ago, $45b was a theory -- now it's a reality. By this time next year, they could easily be parking $60b in the bank. Then what? Is the goal to reach $100b and call it a day?


Kind of proves my point, doesn't it? Apple could have bought Palm 50 times over, but they don't want to go that high for anything apparently. So what's the cash for?

It wasn't nonsense. Apple shouldn't provide a dividend currently. Doing so would be irresponsible. The reality is Apple is currently defending quite a few serious lawsuits. Some are asking for big dollars. Apple has to keep enough money around to weather any potential adverse judgements. Further, Apple wants to keep enough money around to snap up deals in this down economy and have enough money in the bank to weather a storm. Apple remembers what it is like to almost have to go out of business. The money in the bank is a security blanket and gives it a lot of freedom to take competitive chances it might not otherwise have to do.

If the economy tanks in a way to effect Apple's business, or Apple stumbles, it has significant liability. Look at Gateway. If Apple had to reduce it's retail presence, it is subject to a heavy cost in terms of buying itself out of leases.

Offering a dividend would do little to give value back to the average investor. It didn't do anything for Microsoft. The stock settled in and has had very little growth since then.

As long as Apple is growing it's business, a dividend is unnecessary. I bought four hundred shares of Apple at 12 a share. It split twice. Apple has rewarded me quite well. A dividend is meaningless.

That's far more than anything ever I've suggested. I suggested $1.00/share, for the first time maybe two years ago, and every quarter since.

Actually, they have been increasing share.

Look at the reported PC growth rate for each of the past 20 quarters and the Mac growth rate. IIRC, Apple beat the rest of the market every quarter but one.

For example, I believe the PC growth rate was 18% last quarter vs 33% for Apple. That means that Apple grew share.

And even that underestimates Apple's position because netbooks are counted in the PC segment and the iPad is not. (whether that's right or not is open to question). If ANYONE bought iPads instead of netbooks, then Apple's reported growth rate should have been even higher.

The facts do no bear any of this out. As melgross noted, they could have bought Palm for a fraction of what they've got in the bank, but they passed. So what then? Apple and virtually every other company is faced with lawsuits, constantly. They don't have to hoard cash against them. Nobody does. And they hardly need almost $50b in cash to cushion a stumble. That would not be a stumble, it would be a coronary.

Once again, I think some have a problem wrapping their minds around the magnitude of $50b.

Normally, you're a very careful reader of what people write -- indeed, you often admonish people for not doing so with things you write -- and I'll give you the benefit of doubt. Perhaps, in your mad rush to shoot off an answer, you didn't really read what I wrote.

Btw, one more thing. I have no disagreement with the notion that Apple could return a significant chunk. Please reread what I wrote.

great point

>>>
new apple stuff ??

nano shoe phone

>>>>

every 1/4 has been red hot

go apple

9

Yep... My thoughts exactly... Why would Apple really WANT palm?

- The patent pool ... Okay yes it would have a limited value I guess... 600m if the reports are true.

- The OS ... Not a chance Apple would have no use for it.

- Keeping the OS away from a competitor? Nope... Any SANE competitor who wanted to go up against Apple would just as soon get Android from google.

Now if the reports of this were true... Google was only interested in PALM if they learned Apple was bidding big for it... Apple wasn't so Google stepped out leaving HP and ??? LG was it? Not that it mattered, HP was swinging for the fence and one the ..prize.. Well not exactly a prize but you get the idea.

The billion dollar question is this.... WTF was HP thinking?!?!?!

HP bigwig 1: let's go after the iPad in a BIG way!
HP bigwig 2: YEA!!! Let's get a meeting with google to secure an android license!
HP bigwig 1: NO I got a much better idea.... Let's buy PALM and see if we can't out market and out design both Apple AND Google!
HP bigwig 2: Boy! Why didn't ..I.. think of that?
HP bigwig 1: well I guess we now know why I'm bigwig 1, don't we?
HP bigwig 2: We sure do...

It's really comical to think about isn't it... HP with PALM OS in hand is actually going to go up against both Apple AND Google... Someone please tell me what those fine folks are smokin I could really go for a toke right about now.

Growing its business profitably......

...that it's so much fun to review the prognostications of the not-too-distant past!

Apple should close its retail stores. After all, they didn't work for Gateway

Apple should "pull the plug" on the iPhone. (A must read from my favorite blowhard. The whole thing is a pull quote.)

Another fail from the Mayor of Blowhard

"It's the Pippin all over again" ...what's a Pippin?

Apple RIP ...from Forbes??? Sometimes even the smart ones get it wrong, apparently.

Random quotes, from whom the authors are too embarrassed to leave the page up for public ridicule:

"The iMac will only sell to some of the true believers. The iMac doesn’t include a floppy disk drive drive for doing file backups or sharing of data. ... The iMac will fail.
- Hiawatha Bray, Boston Globe, 1998.

"I'd shut [Apple] down and give the money back to the shareholders."
- Michael Dell, October 1997

“The biggest long-term problem with moving to an Apple platform is that the company is in decline."
- Famous dunderhead Rob Enderle, in October 2003

"Within the next two months, Sony will acquire Apple. … Sony will be the white knight who will step into the picture."
- former Apple VP Dunderhead Gaston Bastiaens, January 1996.

"[Apple] seems to have two options. The first is to break itself up, selling the hardware side. The second is to sell the company outright."
- The Economist, February 1995

And last but not least:

"The Macintosh uses an experimental pointing device called a "mouse". There is no evidence that people want to use these things. I dont want one of these new fangled devices."
- John C. Dvorak, 1984, proving that even dunderhead predictions are occasionally proven right, if you wait long enough. In this case... 26 years.

Enjoy.

Apple.

Most of these lawsuits come to nothing. The rest won't use much of Apple's cash. No matter what, altogether even if they lost some of the big ones, we're talking a billion at most. Means nothing. MS loses suits like thisall the time, and still generates far more cash than it loses.

Gateway is a terrible example. They made every mistake they could possibly make.

I'm looking at the cash influx vs the number of shares. Less than a billion shares vs a billion of new cash per month which will likely increase on average as Apple continues to grow.

This year Apple will be about $60 billion. Next year, $80 billion, the year after that, likely at least $100 billion. How much cash will they generate then? 2% (per year, of course) of current stock numbers won't seem like much.

the numbers should kill some trolls dead
>>

Apples Mac unit sales increased 33% year over year to 3.47 million units, well ahead of IDCs numbers for the overall PC market, which grew 22% year-over-year.
Apple wasnt specific, but said that both desktop and laptop Mac sales beat the overall market.
iPod touch sales 48% year over year
iPod revenue grew 4%, even while unit sales decreased 8%.
iTunes sales up 25% to more than $1 billion
There are now 225,000 Apps on the App Store
That includes 11,000 iPad-specific apps
There have been 5 billion app downloads
iPhone unit sales great 61% year-over-year to 8.41 million, well ahead of IDCs latest estimates of 38% global smartphone sales growth.
Apple has now sold 100 million iOS devices
Apples average selling price (ASP) for the iPad was $640 for the June quarter, with $2.1 billion in total sales
Apple Store (brick and mortar) saw record revenue, with each store averaging $9 million. Total Apple Store sales were up 73% year-over-year
Apple Stores sold 677,000 Macs, which was up 38%. Apple claims that half of those sales went to new Mac users
Apple has 293 Apple Stores open around the world
Apple is budgeting $175 million for the iPhone case giveaway the company announced in response to Antennagate this money will be accounted for during the September quarter
Apple COO Tim Cook said that iPhones have been deployed or are being tested in 80% of the Fortune 100 companies, and some 60% of Fortune 500 companies
50% of the Fortune 100 are already testing or have deployed the iPad (See TMOs full coverage for more information).
Apple saw 73% growth in Mac sales in the Asia-Pacific region. This includes 144% growth in China, 184% in Korea, and not quite 100% growth in Hong Kong
Spain saw 59% year-over-year growth

Or Adobe.


Actually, it wasn't a bad move for HP. They would like to make a product to compete with the iPad (maybe the iPhone and iPod, as well, but that's less clear). Clearly, Windows wasn't going to cut it for all sorts of reasons. That leaves them the choice of PalmOS or Android.

If they are selling Android systems, they really can't innovate all that much - so it comes down largely to a price war. Margins would always be squeezed. If they use PalmOS, they have something proprietary - with all its strengths and weaknesses. There will be some people who just dislike Android for any number of reasons (fragmentation being a major one). Therefore, HP has a good chance of getting its own fan base - and the ability to profit from it. Chances are that their margins will be higher than if they used Android because they won't be competing with every Tom, Dick, and Harry in the business.

Whether it works out that way remains to be seen, but it's certainly a plausible strategy.

I don't think you're looking at this in the right frame of mind. The patents aren't just worth what they are as patents in the sense that Apple would need, or want most of them. They are a hedge against other companies lawsuits against apple.

It's been said that the reason Apple didn't sue Palm and now Google and others over multitouch was because Palm had patents Apple was infringing, and so it would have been a messy lawsuit. This is likely true.

Companies dance around each other over IP rights. Generally they all have patents that others are using, but they stay away from lawsuits unless what is happening is affecting their sales more than the other guys. If one company gains a majority of patents in any one area, it acts as a wall other companies can't leap over. Then they have to be careful.

I would never count Hp out of this. Hp is an old line computer company with a vast amount of IP in the mini computer business, the workstation business, and a number of other sophisticated areas. They have the money Palm never had. They can take WebOS and make something of it. They have the knowledge. Before Windows, Hp had their own desktop software that was considered to be the best in the business. They aren't stupid.

This has to worry Microsoft.

True, if your definition of "very little growth" is "zero"

MSFT has hefty corporate licensing fees and gets about $50 for every computer sold. It's not a growth company and has more in common with a utility than a technological innovator like Apple.

Here's a weird one though... FDGFX's largest holding is... AAPL. Everyone loves a winner.

ms stock has froze for yrs

MS is the worst run company on the planet considering what they could be doing OR COULD HAVE DONE
ie
Apple stepped in and now sells over % 70 of its product to wintel owners
or non mac owners .

Apple sold over 8bn this qt to msft branded people.

Apple ipad is a msft to -macOS under the radar conversion marvel.

3/4 of all apple itunes ipod ipad iphone itouch is written to sync with msft computers.


Apple is in effect a msft company .

Balmer just sat their holding onto his two monopolie;s and simply let the world pass him by . he saw the first ipod and wondered i guess.
hmm how nice they sync with all my machines

Anyway thats why apple will never pay a dividend >>> I think.....

. 50bn in THE bank makes apples real share price $210 per

rant is over

9

or
EA

Yep, the company I work for sells equipment to semiconductor manufacturers, and the more stuff Apple sells, the more advanced fabs are needed, the better we do, the more I'm paid and the more Apple gear I can buy.

Isn't economics amazing!

I expect the eventual release of desktops and laptops with the iOS on them- perhaps sooner than I expected?

Then there is the whole Apple TV "hole" that is yet to be plugged.

And a hopeful competitor to Microsoft's Windows Home Server.

Then again, Apple could get back into camera's or some other unexpected direction. Whatever it is, it will compliment their exiting ensemble of products but I can't think of anything else.