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AT&T defensively publishes private dropped call data

post #1 of 72
Thread Starter 
While Apple's chief executive Steve Jobs said AT&T wouldn't let him reveal its proprietary data about dropped call statistics for competitive reasons, the mobile provider has revealed some numbers in an effort to defend its network from poor dropped call scores collected by ChangeWave.

ChangeWave published the results of a March survey which indicated AT&T had much higher dropped calls than its US competitors: 4.5 percent compared to 2.8 percent for T-Mobile, 2.4 percent for Sprint, and just 1.5 percent for Verizon Wireless.

That data was collected by a survey of 4,040 smartphone users who were asked to report their own percentage of dropped calls. AT&T's dropped call rate has reportedly inched higher since September 2008, when it was reported to be 3.6 percent, while Verizon's score improved over the same period from a high of 2.7 percent.

AT&T responds

AT&T was obviously not happy with the numbers, and in response to a Tech-Ex report publishing the ChangeWave figures, pointed to scientific national drive testing performed by GWS, contrasting its "actual quantitative results derived from millions of calls made during extensive drive-testing of the AT&T mobile broadband network by a highly respected outside firm" with "the opinions compiled in the survey" which were "dramatically at odds" with the GWS data.

A "statistically valid drive test shows the AT&T network continues to deliver the nation's fastest 3G network and near best-in-class call retainability nationwide," the company said. "AT&T's network dropped only 1.44 percent of calls nationwide, within two-tenths of 1 percent of the industry leader and a difference of less than two calls out of 1,000."

AT&T noted that "those results, from GWS, show that, on a national basis, AT&T is within just two-tenths of a percent of the industry leader in wireless call retainability. That's a difference of just two calls in a thousand, a virtual dead-heat."



Network, phones and location, location, location

AT&T's numbers likely differ so dramatically for a number of key reasons. In addition to the performance of the network, dropped calls can also be related to the performance of handsets and where they are being used. The fact that AT&T carries more smartphone users and handles more data than all the other US providers combined also has an impact, as it is easier to maintain calls for embedded phones than sophisticated smartphones that may drop a call due to other factors (such as the iPhone 4's proximity sensor flaw).

Different models also have different call drop rates. Even Apple acknowledged that there is a difference between the iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4; while Jobs downplayed the difference as being less than one dropped call per 100, he also admitted that the problem was real and committed to an expensive free case offer to rectify the situation, as case use should help to improve reception by isolating the device from the user's hand.

Apart from performance differences between phones, there is also a major difference in call reliability between users in different locations, whether that is a product of the quality of AT&T's network in a specific location or an issue related to a large number of users located in a overburdened area. That can be a chronic problem or an acute issue caused by a large number of visitors flocking to the same event.

San Francisco Network destroys its own network

Users in areas such as San Francisco with notoriously bad spots of poor or nonexistent coverage are obviously going to see far more dropped calls than users in a area where AT&T doesn't have to fight neighborhood groups working to prevent the installation of any new towers due to fears that their radio output will cause health problems.

Jobs noted that AT&T spends an average of three years applying for new cellular tower sites in San Francisco, compared to just three weeks in other markets such as Texas.

Part of the credit for San Francsicos's terrible cellular service can be attributed to the tireless efforts of the San Francisco Neighborhood Antenna-Free Union (SNAFU), which actively prevents network expansions due to what it calls "mounting evidence concerning the health and environmental effects of radiofrequency (RF) radiation used by cellular phones, cellular antennas and other wireless transmitters."

Google and Earthlink faced similar political problems in San Francisco when they offered to build out a city-wide WiFi network providing free service to everyone while offering a faster paid tier of service to subscribers. The WiFi network was proposed by mayor Gavin Newsom in 2004, but by 2007 San Francisco's Board of Supervisors had successfully waged a political war against the mayor to defeat any hope for a free municipal WiFi network. That same year, SNAFU even managed to get Board of Supervisors president Aaron Peskin to introduce legislation imposing a 45-day moratorium on microcell antennas throughout San Francisco.

In addition to radio antenna fear mongers, the Board's fight with the mayor over WiFi was joined by community activists who demanded free WiFi at full broadband speeds while also demanding twice the agreed upon contractual commitments from Google and Earthlink, and privacy advocates who assailed the city's contract for making "creepy" mentions of "the needs of law enforcement," allowing access to "lawful Internet content," and noting support for all "legal devices that do not harm the Network."

It also doesn't help that a free city-wide WiFi network in San Francisco would naturally be opposed by paid data service providers from Comcast to Verizon and, ironically, AT&T, which now has a pundit-heavy city of iPhone users who daily rant about the terrible cellular service it provides, while lacking any backup WiFi service that would have been provided by Google and Earthlink.
post #2 of 72
att has the money to upgrade but doesn't want to spend it.
post #3 of 72
I agree with AT&T that dropped call statistics obtained anecdotally is severely flawed, laying a dropkick to the scientific method's larynx.

If anything, it's a single-blind study: AT&T users have heard how crappy their network is for so long that they'd be happy to gripe about the one dropped call they had 12 years to someone calling to obtain their "scientific opinion."

AT&T, I'm with you on this one.

Now give me a $100 gift card.
post #4 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

att has the money to upgrade but doesn't want to spend it.


...
post #5 of 72
Damn, this article is pretty harsh on San Fran. I'm sure that will make a few people here very very happy to see.
post #6 of 72
Fifth!
post #7 of 72
AT&Ts data looks bad with respect to the iPhone 4.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #8 of 72
I read the entire article BEFORE I noticed who wrote. But, when I go to the end, I thought: only Daniel could have written this.

San Francisco is the most dysfunctional city I know of. And, I love to visit as a tourist.
But, the idiotic laws that both the Board and the citizens pass are just insane.
post #9 of 72
Regarding the dropped calls portion, this is old information published several months back and pre-dates the iP4 release. I've referred to the CWS info several times in my posts, most recently a week ago or so, though I don't recall anyone believing it at the time.
post #10 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

att has the money to upgrade but doesn't want to spend it.

I don't get your remark....AT&T is basically trying to hand over a ton of money to the people of San Fran....in this horrible economy where jobs are scarce.....to build new cell towers and expand the infrastructure and the loonies over at city hall are looking the other way. Idiots.
post #11 of 72
Situation Normal All Fvcked Up is a pretty good description for what that group has done. It reminds me of the ridiculous rumor and FUD that was spread about power transmission lines. The guy that started it all has retracted his statement. He was unfortunately misquoted (to the bad) several times and this really got blown out of proportion. Google it.

I hope those lawmakers will realistically look at scientific data and make their decisions based on that and not hyperbole.


BTW:
I live in Texas but really love SF the peninsula and the valley - I really miss it when it is hot and humid here!
post #12 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

AT&Ts data looks bad with respect to the iPhone 4.

The data's from March. iPhone 4 came out end of June. How does it relate?
post #13 of 72
I for one am glad to see Apple and at&t finally challenging the FUD and crap spread around about their networks and devices. I'll never understand why normally rational people take anecdotal reports of anonymous users on internet forums as a valid sampling of what is really going on. Using the hospital metaphor, how can one conclude that because a town's hospital is full of patients therefore everybody in the town is also sick? Small, vocal, anonymous user reports of an issue are somehow extrapolated into "massive" issues.

The trolls attacked when Steve Jobs mentioned the three year period to get a cell tower approved in SF. It seems now that its even worse than that. We apparently have an activist group trying to stop all cell tower deployments in the city.

We have no real idea of how pervasive the so-called iPhone 4 reception issue is either. All we have is a bunch of screaming loonies with YouTube videos and forum rants about how a user's sister's boyfriend drops calls all the time Then the media started sniffing blood in the water and cranked up the hysteria. The end result was a press conference in which Steve Jobs basically called everybody out to put up or shut up. The scab was ripped off the wound and Apple and at&t are now fighting back. And it's starting to look like they're not so far off with their claims after all. And it really all boils down to the fact that forums and blogs concentrate the negative. If I'm happy with a product or service I'm not all that inclined to post in a forum about it or write a letter to the editor extolling my satisfaction. But if I'm unhappy with something I will scream at the top of my lungs to anyone who will listen.

But it doesn't matter apparently. The "if you read on the internet it must be true" mentality is alive and well. Add to this the tendency of people to reject information that doesn't conform to their bias and except information that does. Repeating FUD often enough does seems to make it more acceptable if you want the FUD to be true.

Now I'm sure that we will have critics attacking at&t's third party scientific study and defending the non-scientific "call some people and see what they say" study. The reality is probably somewhere in the middle but we'll never know will we. At least not on blogs and forums where reality is what you say it is. And people rant on about Steve Job's RDF. Take a look in the mirror why don't you.
post #14 of 72
It is not AT&T data it test data that some outside company did as a survey of their network. AT&T provide their statistical analysis data form their own network system specific to the Iphone 4 to apple and this is the data they did not want published. AT&T's network can tell if a call was dropped verse being hung up, since when you hand up it sends a command down the network to tear down the connection. So if this command is not sent and the call ends then they assume it was dropped.

I am betting this data is different than what the outside testing company showed, the actually drop call on the network was probably higher. But surveying 4000 people and trying to extrapolated that over 80 million users and billion of calls made each date is unrealistic their survey error is probably +/- 4% or 5%
post #15 of 72
Wow. Bragging about "near best in class." I can't wait to see what happens when other carriers pick up the iPhone.
post #16 of 72
Whilst it's not popular for people to dis wireless of all types in tech circles it fucks your body up. The industries (computer, phone etc) all cover it up but it is well known, such that before I bought my first mobile in 1986 I knew about it from an industry insider subsequently confirmed by a former Navy radio officer working in the cell phone industry. Telecoms engineers report 3x leukemia rates - the source can never be separated from background radiation by subsequent govt/industry (same thing) investigators.

Search TETRA EMF for real bad news.

So how does it work? Your immune system depends on a barrage of signals, literally tens of thousands per second, both chemical and electrical. With such a number and the realities of nature some go wrong but natural selection has determined how many going wrong is a safe proportion. Mass pollution, electrical (EMF) and chemical, increases the number of erroneous immune system signals. So there aren't specific illnesses associated with pollution there is a general increase in 'conditions' (as illnesses are now called by the industry that provides 'treatments' rather than cures).

Really anyone who thinks that massively changing the nature of the human environment will not have detrimental health effects should better understand the nature of being and nature.

@Dan, love your writings, love your attitude, hope you are man enough to dig deeper on this one.

Plug those (sheathed) cables in!!!
post #17 of 72
If these numbers are true -- and there is no reason to suspect that they are not -- then ATT is really getting a bum rap from a bunch of loud, hyperventilated whiners from a couple of places like NYC and SF. That somehow seems to be getting amplified into an unfair perception of a larger, nation-wide problem when it simply may not be true.

I have said many times before: in my overall experience, both with where I live and where I travel to (including, frequently, NYC), I have found ATT to be decent and importantly, no different from my past experience with either Sprint or Verizon.
post #18 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damn_Its_Hot View Post

Situation Normal All Fvcked Up is a pretty good description for what that group has done. It reminds me of the ridiculous rumor and FUD that was spread about power transmission lines. The guy that started it all has retracted his statement. He was unfortunately misquoted (to the bad) several times and this really got blown out of proportion. Google it. ...

The trouble with the "cell phones fry your brain" theory as well as the "power lines cause cancer" theory, is that there is just enough truth in it that it can never be wholly discounted. While most of what you hear is nonsense, there are some studies that indicate that living near power lines can cause higher rates of cancer and some studies that indicate certain cell phones are bad for your brain.

From the reading I've done, the only real things to worry about are living close to and *downwind* (because of the ionising effect) from giant power lines for long periods of time, and letting your children use cellphones too much (because the radiation does actually heat up your brain and their brains are still growing). The cell towers themselves don't have any adverse effects at all that I've read about.
post #19 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beauty of Bath View Post

Whilst it's not popular for people to dis wireless of all types in tech circles it fucks your body up. The industries (computer, phone etc) all cover it up but it is well known, such that before I bought my first mobile in 1986 I knew about it from an industry insider subsequently confirmed by a former Navy radio officer working in the cell phone industry. Telecoms engineers report 3x leukemia rates - the source can never be separated from background radiation by subsequent govt/industry (same thing) investigators.

Search TETRA EMF for real bad news.

So how does it work? Your immune system depends on a barrage of signals, literally tens of thousands per second, both chemical and electrical. With such a number and the realities of nature some go wrong but natural selection has determined how many going wrong is a safe proportion. Mass pollution, electrical (EMF) and chemical, increases the number of erroneous immune system signals. So there aren't specific illnesses associated with pollution there is a general increase in 'conditions' (as illnesses are now called by the industry that provides 'treatments' rather than cures).

Really anyone who thinks that massively changing the nature of the human environment will not have detrimental health effects should better understand the nature of being and nature.

@Dan, love your writings, love your attitude, hope you are man enough to dig deeper on this one.

Plug those (sheathed) cables in!!!

You are spot on. I have a similar concern about my tooth fillings too. A swami once told me, in 1964, that aliens lived in it.
post #20 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

I for one am glad to see Apple and at&t finally challenging the FUD and crap spread around about their networks and devices. I'll never understand why normally rational people take anecdotal reports of anonymous users on internet forums as a valid sampling of what is really going on. Using the hospital metaphor, how can one conclude that because a town's hospital is full of patients therefore everybody in the town is also sick? Small, vocal, anonymous user reports of an issue are somehow extrapolated into "massive" issues.

The trolls attacked when Steve Jobs mentioned the three year period to get a cell tower approved in SF. It seems now that its even worse than that. We apparently have an activist group trying to stop all cell tower deployments in the city.

We have no real idea of how pervasive the so-called iPhone 4 reception issue is either. All we have is a bunch of screaming loonies with YouTube videos and forum rants about how a user's sister's boyfriend drops calls all the time Then the media started sniffing blood in the water and cranked up the hysteria. The end result was a press conference in which Steve Jobs basically called everybody out to put up or shut up. The scab was ripped off the wound and Apple and at&t are now fighting back. And it's starting to look like they're not so far off with their claims after all. And it really all boils down to the fact that forums and blogs concentrate the negative. If I'm happy with a product or service I'm not all that inclined to post in a forum about it or write a letter to the editor extolling my satisfaction. But if I'm unhappy with something I will scream at the top of my lungs to anyone who will listen.

But it doesn't matter apparently. The "if you read on the internet it must be true" mentality is alive and well. Add to this the tendency of people to reject information that doesn't conform to their bias and except information that does. Repeating FUD often enough does seems to make it more acceptable if you want the FUD to be true.


I can not agree more, most people lack the ability to take all this information and draw a factual conclusion. Plus most people are users, that have no ideal what it takes to make a product the do not understand the limits of design and what trade of that exists.

I love the people in SF they are like the one around me, all they care about is they got something and they will do everything they can so other do not have what they have. such as they can receive a call in their house and screw the neighbors down the street who can not because you not putting a tower out in from of my house.
post #21 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

The data's from March. iPhone 4 came out end of June. How does it relate?

That's the point. The iPhone 4 is 66% above average, with regards dropped calls.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #22 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post

I don't get your remark....AT&T is basically trying to hand over a ton of money to the people of San Fran....in this horrible economy where jobs are scarce.....to build new cell towers and expand the infrastructure and the loonies over at city hall are looking the other way. Idiots.

Ah...NIMBYism at its best.

It's what's stopping the Western world converting to wind power, upgrading train lines and generally improving our urban world.
post #23 of 72
Sorry, but "massively changing the human environment" has been happening since people started building houses and wearing clothes - and generally doing things to change their environment for the better.

The species will evolve and adapt over time and thrive in whatever environment we create for ourselves. (on Earth, Mars, wherever)

Relax, and remove your tinfoil hat. The "good ol days" weren't so hot and I look forward to a new and better human being.

Just think - humans who can survive boiling brains! Who could stop us then!
post #24 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beauty of Bath View Post

Whilst it's not popular for people to dis wireless of all types in tech circles it fucks your body up. The industries (computer, phone etc) all cover it up but it is well known, such that before I bought my first mobile in 1986 I knew about it from an industry insider subsequently confirmed by a former Navy radio officer working in the cell phone industry. Telecoms engineers report 3x leukemia rates - the source can never be separated from background radiation by subsequent govt/industry (same thing) investigators.

!

Hey do you know microwaves will cook you form the inside out if you stand in front of a microwave tower. This is true give it a try. This exact how they invented the microwave oven in your home. They found that telecom engineers who would stupid enough to align microwave transmitters with the power on were dying from internal burns, they cook their organs. So if it was not for them dying you would not have that microwave in your house.

So it does not surprise me that engineer had ill-affect from their activities, some time engineer do not think through the possible outcome of stand in front of high power transmitters or other activities.

Also, do you know that for the longest time transmitter on ships did not have warning and people would walk right past them when they were operating. Today an all shipped they have area of the ship where you not allow to be due to radar systems and communications system because if you stand in front on them you will die or be serious injured. This only an issue under high power not low power. There is no causal to back this up.

lastly you know some people are more likely to get a disease or be sick then other people so any activity they do might cause them to have problems verses someone else. Just because someone got sick or came down with a disease it not proof the activity caused it.
post #25 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by YodaMac View Post

Sorry, but "massively changing the human environment" has been happening since people started building houses and wearing clothes - and generally doing things to change their environment for the better.

The species will evolve and adapt over time and thrive in whatever environment we create for ourselves. (on Earth, Mars, wherever)

Relax, and remove your tinfoil hat. The "good ol days" weren't so hot and I look forward to a new and better human being.

Just think - humans who can survive boiling brains! Who could stop us then!

And all this frightens the horses too.
A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
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A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
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post #26 of 72
After Apple releasing a product that has this major usability and reliability issue with how you hold it, I am happy I went with a Droid X. I'm lucky enough to get my phone paid by my company and could have chosen an iPhone4, but decided purely on the issue of the call reliability.

After hearing for years how the dropped calls were ATT's fault, I think people should be more critical of Apple. They do design beautiful looking phones that probably have the best, most cohesive software. But its rediculous that that they come out and say that their new phones have less than 1 in 100 more dropped calls. Their phones should be getting better-not worse or staying the same. They have gotten a pass on the blame for the dropped calls for too long. They should have hired those antennae engineers years ago. The iphone is after all a phone, not just an iPod Touch (which I have and love).
post #27 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trajectory View Post

Damn, this article is pretty harsh on San Fran. I'm sure that will make a few people here very very happy to see.

We (Daniel and I) are residents of San Francisco. The special interest groups are hard on San Francisco, with Spies of the Urban Forest running around looking for trees and jackhammering them in front of homes and businesses (literally, to made the hole in the sidewalk for them).

I'd love to see the cell phone usage of SNAFU members . And really lovely that they have to reduce San Francisco in their name to a single letter to make their acronym.

Thanks, Daniel, for letting us know about the organized resistance to mobile towers who *then* complain about the lack of service. I thought it was just people conning schools into publishing petition signature requests in the school newsletters.
post #28 of 72
<inappropriate post removed>
post #29 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

att has the money to upgrade but doesn't want to spend it.

They're spending > $2 Billion this year to move the bulk of their traffic to their fiber-based HSPA 7.2 and LTE-capable backhaul.

Sure, they could spend an additional $10 Billion and make every rural zone 3G, but where is their ROI?
post #30 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Weber View Post

After Apple releasing a product that has this major usability and reliability issue with how you hold it, I am happy I went with a Droid X. I'm lucky enough to get my phone paid by my company and could have chosen an iPhone4, but decided purely on the issue of the call reliability.

After hearing for years how the dropped calls were ATT's fault, I think people should be more critical of Apple. They do design beautiful looking phones that probably have the best, most cohesive software. But its rediculous that that they come out and say that their new phones have less than 1 in 100 more dropped calls. Their phones should be getting better-not worse or staying the same. They have gotten a pass on the blame for the dropped calls for too long. They should have hired those antennae engineers years ago. The iphone is after all a phone, not just an iPod Touch (which I have and love).

ALL cellphones drop calls, ALL networks drop calls. I have had an iPhone since the original and have NEVER experienced ANY abnormal behavior. I know dozens of iPhone users and NONE of them have experienced any abnormal rates of dropped calls. I had a Motorola phone once that couldn't hold calls on Verizon in my neighborhood right in downtown Denver. So now I'm supposed to say that motorola and verizon suck??? No, they just had bad reception in my neighborhood. SF and NYC have both had real problems, SF for the reasons explained in this piece, and because of NYC density and towering obstructions, yet they seem to get all the attention in these asinine rants like yours. Any service provider or handset is going to face these same issues in these two cities if they are as successful as Apple in selling smartphones.
post #31 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

<inappropriate post removed>


That is a rather rude thing to write. What exactly do you find erroneous about his/her original post?

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #32 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

Hey do you know microwaves will cook you form the inside out if you stand in front of a microwave tower. This is true give it a try. This exact how they invented the microwave oven in your home. They found that telecom engineers who would stupid enough to align microwave transmitters with the power on were dying from internal burns, they cook their organs. So if it was not for them dying you would not have that microwave in your house.

So it does not surprise me that engineer had ill-affect from their activities, some time engineer do not think through the possible outcome of stand in front of high power transmitters or other activities.

Also, do you know that for the longest time transmitter on ships did not have warning and people would walk right past them when they were operating. Today an all shipped they have area of the ship where you not allow to be due to radar systems and communications system because if you stand in front on them you will die or be serious injured. This only an issue under high power not low power. There is no causal to back this up.

lastly you know some people are more likely to get a disease or be sick then other people so any activity they do might cause them to have problems verses someone else. Just because someone got sick or came down with a disease it not proof the activity caused it.

http://www.ideafinder.com/history/in.../microwave.htm

The microwave oven was "discovered" thanks to a melted candy bar - not a dead engineer.

As for warning labels, ever look at a ladder lately? or even a step stool - some of the have a sticker that says "DO NOT CONTINUE BEYOND THIS STEP" - likely because someone stepped off the top of a ladder - or onto the top rung and leaned over and fell off - not because ladders are a uncontrolled hazard in and of themselves.


Those San Franciscans are so gay... not that there's anything wrong with that

Regarding the risk of cancer - just about everything we do - including standing outside and breathing the earth's atmosphere carries some risk of cancer. The most compelling case of a cell phone causing cancer that I have ever seen was back in the 80s or early 90s - a case where the dots made on the patients had to align the radiation device lined up exactly with the antenna in the cell phone used - but that could as easily be a result of the fact that human beings design both the cell phone and the medical devices to be operated by guess what human hands - so the coincidence may have nothing whatsoever to do with radiation from the antenna. and that was only 1 case - there would have to be something like 10% of cell phone users developing brain cancer before you could hope to have a sample size large enough to be statistically significant.
post #33 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by davebarnes View Post

I read the entire article BEFORE I noticed who wrote. But, when I go to the end, I thought: only Daniel could have written this.

San Francisco is the most dysfunctional city I know of. And, I love to visit as a tourist.
But, the idiotic laws that both the Board and the citizens pass are just insane.

I agree with ya about SF, those same pot smoking hippies bitching about cell tower construction are the first ones to bitch about their shitty service....pretty sad...and I'm FROM San Francisco!!! I love the city but damn....
post #34 of 72
I have trouble believing AT&T doesn't know exactly what percentage of calls have had degraded performance leading to dropped calls. If you don't weight it to where their customers are calling, it has no meaning (just like the Verizon map...)

My neighborhood has about a 5% dropped call rate with AT&T. I'm sure neighborhood organizations don't help things, but there are obvious locations that they don't control that are easy to address for microcells.
post #35 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolcat View Post

I agree with ya about SF, those same pot smoking hippies bitching about cell tower construction are the first ones to bitch about their shitty service....pretty sad...and I'm FROM San Francisco!!! I love the city but damn....

You know what they say..."Follow the money." Who has an interest in building towers? What ulterior motive does SNAFU have for opposing them?

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #36 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

That's the point. The iPhone 4 is 66% above average, with regards dropped calls.

According to whom? And what percentage is the iPhone 3GS or 3G above average?
post #37 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

According to whom? And what percentage is the iPhone 3GS or 3G above average?

AT&T says their average drop rate is 1.44%.
Apple says the iPhone 4 drops <1 call per 100 (read: slightly under 1%) more than iPhone 3GS.

So there are three possible scenarios.

1) iPhone 3GS drops less than the network average - say, 0.5% of calls. iPhone 4 then drops around 1.4% of calls and is right in line with the network average. Great for 3GS users, but a dramatic step backwards for iPhone 4.

2) iPhone 3GS drops an average rate - say, 1.5% of calls. iPhone 4 then drops around 2.4% of calls, significantly above average and 60% more than 3GS. Again, a dramatic step backwards, and worse than the overall network.

3) iPhone 3GS drops more than the network average - say, 5% of calls. iPhone 4 then drops around 5.9% of calls. Not a huge difference between the two (an 18% increase) but both models are much much worse than the network average.

None of these are particularly ideal scenarios for the company. I'd say #1 is the least negative, but in my experience with both models, also the least likely...
post #38 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

The data's from March. iPhone 4 came out end of June. How does it relate?

It relates in Daniel's propaganda. In real life if you disconnect your call because proximity sensor issue then that call is still good from network point of view. Why? Network knows YOU disconnected the call, it is not network fault, it did NOT drop that call. YOU did (because sensor sensations). Anyway it does not bother Daniel insinuate this kind of "drops" is reported by ATT.
post #39 of 72
Take a closer look at ATT's quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"actual quantitative results derived from millions of calls made during extensive drive-testing of the AT&T mobile broadband network by a highly respected outside firm"

So basically, ATT's contractor only drove in areas where they were on ATT's 3G network (that's their "mobile broadband" network). And while their contract may be "highly respected" that by no means means they are independent. You can bet they only tested where ATT told (ie, paid) them to test. So the EDGE network wasn't tested. And we have no way of knowing what percentage of those millions of calls were placed in places like San Fran and New York vs on open highways between cities.

So this "quantitative" testing is likely no more accurate than the user survey conducted by ChangeWave. Just because it's scientific doesn't mean it's accurate. As they say, "numbers will confess to anything if you torture them long enough."
post #40 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfogviper View Post

AT&T says their average drop rate is 1.44%.
Apple says the iPhone 4 drops <1 call per 100 (read: slightly under 1%) more than iPhone 3GS.

So there are three possible scenarios.

1) iPhone 3GS drops less than the network average - say, 0.5% of calls. iPhone 4 then drops around 1.4% of calls and is right in line with the network average. Great for 3GS users, but a dramatic step backwards for iPhone 4.

2) iPhone 3GS drops an average rate - say, 1.5% of calls. iPhone 4 then drops around 2.4% of calls, significantly above average and 60% more than 3GS. Again, a dramatic step backwards, and worse than the overall network.

3) iPhone 3GS drops more than the network average - say, 5% of calls. iPhone 4 then drops around 5.9% of calls. Not a huge difference between the two (an 18% increase) but both models are much much worse than the network average.

None of these are particularly ideal scenarios for the company. I'd say #1 is the least negative, but in my experience with both models, also the least likely...

Well first of all, I don't know if I believe AT&T's claims of only dropping 1.44% of calls made with 3G cellphones; that seems awfully unlikely given their terrible reputation. Secondly, any iPhone 3G or 3GS owner who's been on the AT&T network the past couple of years can tell you there's no way in hell they only drop 1 or 2 out of 100 calls. Even only 5 out of 100 seems highly unrealistic. I only make about one call a day, and I know I've had at least 1-2 lost calls per month for as long as I've been on AT&T. If I had to guess based on my own experience, iPhone's have about a 6% dropped-call rating, but because so many iPhone owners are more data users than call makers it doesn't drag down AT&T's total 3G dropped calls as much as it would if iPhone users were frequent call-makers.
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