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LG unable to meet iPad display demand

post #1 of 42
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LG Display's CEO said Thursday that the company had been unable to fulfill orders for displays used in Apple's iPad, but promised "without fail" to catch up with demand by Q2 2011.

Chief executive Kwon Young-soo explained that LG was currently running "at full capacity," but still experiencing production shortages of the iPad display. "Demand (from Apple) keeps growing and we can't meet it all."

LG is considering increased production for iPad products, but "overall supply is likely to remain tight until early next year," Kwon said. He then set a target of second quarter 2011 for LG to meet orders for the displays.

iPad demand has surpassed even Apple's own expectations. Tim Cook, Apple's Chief Operating Officer, admitted Tuesday that the company had been caught off guard by the high demand for the iPad. 3.27 million iPads were sold through the end of Apple's most recent financial quarter.

In spite of a backlog of iPad orders, Apple announced Monday that it would release the iPad in 9 more countries this Friday, fulfilling its goal to launch in these countries by the end of July.

In April, Apple announced that the international launch of the iPad would be delayed by one month. The Cupertino, Calif., company cited surprisingly strong demand as the cause of the delay. However, some analysts have pointed to LG's display shortages as a limiting factor in the production of the device.

According to Reuters' coverage of the LG executives' comments, "Apple may have to delay launches of the iPad for some countries due to tight component supplies and strong demand."

LG also announced Thursday that it was investing over $500 million in production of mobile phone and tablet sized displays. Last year, Apple prepaid $500 million to LG for a guaranteed 5-year supply of LCD screens for Macs and handheld products.
post #2 of 42
Demand = Desirability... (almost) Everyone Wins with a little bit of waiting.
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post #3 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Chief executive Kwon Young-soo explained that LG was currently running "at full capacity," but still experiencing production shortages of the iPad display. "Demand (from Apple) keeps growing and we can't meet it all."

Sometimes it makes you wonder if you can trust anything these Asian suppliers say. They are competing with Apple and also a vendor. With the leaks and the knock offs, stealing IP and everything else, how long can these relationships last? It is definitely the Achilles' heel for Apple.

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post #4 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Sometimes it makes you wonder if you can trust anything these Asian suppliers say. They are competing with Apple and also a vendor. With the leaks and the knock offs, stealing IP and everything else, how long can these relationships last? It is definitely the Achilles' heel for Apple.

But without the controller software/OS to drive these displays and the associated chips and other bits of hardware, a single manufacturer would be hard-pressed to create and market a competitive product.

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post #5 of 42
Sadly, I guess that means we will NOT see the same "Retina Display" in the next update to the iPad then. If LG is saying they won't even catch up on current IPS display production at this size, it would seem to indicate that the next refresh (assuming Apple sticks with an annual update cycle for iPad) will see the iPad v2 continue to use the same display until a higher density display can be manufactured en masse.

That's too bad because I'm really really liking my iPhone 4's display. Going back to 3GS displays and even my computer display, I can really feel the difference that a high pixel density screen brings.
post #6 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

But without the controller software/OS to drive these displays and the associated chips and other bits of hardware, a single manufacturer would be hard-pressed to create and market a competitive product.

Sure but they make displays for anyone who wants one, passing on whatever they learn from Apple.

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post #7 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Sometimes it makes you wonder if you can trust anything these Asian suppliers say. They are competing with Apple and also a vendor. With the leaks and the knock offs, stealing IP and everything else, how long can these relationships last? It is definitely the Achilles' heel for Apple.

If Apple has been careful, it shouldn't be a problem. All LG really needs to know are the design requirements of the panel, they don't have to know anything about the rest of whatever it goes into.

I also don't think it would make sense for LG to intentionally constrain panel supply in the runup to their own tablet. That would invite too much suspicion, and if they lose panel sales to a competing supplier, then that's money they aren't making.
post #8 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingKuei View Post

No Retina Display in Gen. 2?
Sadly, I guess that means we will NOT see the same "Retina Display" in the next update to the iPad then. If LG is saying they won't even catch up on current IPS display production at this size, it would seem to indicate that the next refresh (assuming Apple sticks with an annual update cycle for iPad) will see the iPad v2 continue to use the same display until a higher density display can be manufactured en masse.

That's too bad because I'm really really liking my iPhone 4's display. Going back to 3GS displays and even my computer display, I can really feel the difference that a high pixel density screen brings.

I dont think that was ever a possibility to begin with. Even if Apple made the iPad display with double the resolution (4x the pixels) like the did when going from the 3GS to the iPhone 4, it still wouldnt be a "Retina Display is we use 20/20 eyesight (1 arc min) as the minimum level for which this term can be used.
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post #9 of 42
It's a wonder to me that Apple hasn't contracted with other suppliers to share the load. Or is LG the only one who can make the display to Apple's specs? Seems like maybe Apple should get into the display making business themselves, either by acquisition or from the ground up. Could still fabricate overseas to control costs, just under Apple's roof. They've got the cash. Besides, with everything going the way of touchscreen, the screen itself is becoming the prime component (having subsumed keyboard and trackpad/mouse)--that and the processor are what it's all about.
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post #10 of 42
Anyone who thinks a retina resolution iPad screen is coming are insane and doesn't understand how computers work. In order to have a PPI the same as the iPhone 4 you would need a resolution well over the resolution of a 30" monitor... Well over. Anyone who owns a 30" monitor can tell you how powerful your computer has to be in order to drive the thing. Even the best video cards of today which cost 600 dollars would have a hard time to drive the resolutions a retina display iPad would require. Not to mention the insane cost such a display would entail. A retina display for a device the size of the iPad is years away, probably at LEAST 5 years away.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KingKuei;

Sadly, I guess that means we will NOT see the same "Retina Display" in the next update to the iPad then. If LG is saying they won't even catch up on current IPS display production at this size, it would seem to indicate that the next refresh (assuming Apple sticks with an annual update cycle for iPad) will see the iPad v2 continue to use the same display until a higher density display can be manufactured en masse.

That's too bad because I'm really really liking my iPhone 4's display. Going back to 3GS displays and even my computer display, I can really feel the difference that a high pixel density screen brings.
post #11 of 42
You don't need the resolution of the iP4 "retina" display on an iPad anyway, just like you don't need the same pixel density on your 65inch LCD monitor or your 20inch PC. As someone has mentioned, the distance you have to hold the device to the eye, based on the necessity to read the font or see the images displayed, primarily determines how sharp the eye perceives the image, and my 65inch Sharp LCD looks as sharp as the retina display, when viewed from the proper distance. Therefore, you don't need the same identical display, and, even though the next generation may be a year or more away, it will be within the realm of chip and battery technology to handle it, when it arrives; otherwise, it won't make any sense to change (the technology may be available, but too expensive or otherwise prohibitive to produce and market successfully). (I just hope Steve doesn't tell everyone to just hold the iPad further away to make it seem like a retina display !) We've all seen how that advice came across. ;-)
post #12 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagman View Post

(I just hope Steve doesn't tell everyone to just hold the iPad further away to make it seem like a retina display).

lol Another email from Jobs saying Youre holding it wrong"?
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post #13 of 42
[QUOTE=Robin Huber;1681841 Besides, with everything going the way of touchscreen, the screen itself is becoming the prime component (having subsumed keyboard and trackpad/mouse)--that and the processor are what it's all about.[/QUOTE]

I know that HP has a touchscreen, but I am dubious about Apple doing the same with laptops and desktops. Holding your hand horizontally toward a touch screen for any length of time is tiring. With a trackpad you can rest the heel of your hand to provide support. I think Apple has better ergonomic sense than creating a touchscreen just because other manufacturers has done so.

I also don't agree with the idea that iOS4 and Mac OS X will be fully merged. They will likely share more cross functionality than they do now, but retain separate focus respectively, touch and keyboard/trackpad.

I am also looking forward to a higher resolution iPad. The distance you hold the device from the eye makes a difference, so no need to match the iPhone4 Retina Display.

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post #14 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by BertP View Post

Holding your hand horizontally toward a touch screen for any length of time is tiring.

Why is it that so many people keep saying this even though the solution is stupid obvious? Just redesign the back of the iMac so it can be taken off its stand and put flat on the desk. The iMac's chin becomes a wrist rest.

Go check out the picures of the Wacom Cintiq is you need help imagining how this could work.

There are other reasons why a direct touchscreen interface is poorly suited to Mac OS X, but I think they could eventually be solved as well, if Apple wanted too.

It's just really aggrevating to hear the same reason over and over, even though it has already been addressed many times in the past.
post #15 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Sometimes it makes you wonder if you can trust anything these Asian suppliers say. They are competing with Apple and also a vendor. With the leaks and the knock offs, stealing IP and everything else, how long can these relationships last? It is definitely the Achilles' heel for Apple.

What are you trying to say?

I wouldn't be surprised if Apple were looking into this. I'm not technically minded by any stretch of the imagination but would it be feasible for Apple to manufacture all it's own parts?
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post #16 of 42
LOL, I thought LG was a huge company. If they can meet the demand it's good news for the iPad.
post #17 of 42
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post #18 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

LOL, I thought LG was a huge company. If they can meet the demand it's good news for the iPad.

It tells us that the iPad is hugely popular, but also that the panel is unique as well, nobody else seems at this stage even close to coming up with a competing product, half a year into the iPad being revealed.
post #19 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

It tells us that the iPad is hugely popular, but also that the panel is unique as well, nobody else seems at this stage even close to coming up with a competing product, half a year into the iPad being revealed.

BINGO

i have seen some ipads on the staten island ferry
they look so nice .sadly few and far between.
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post #20 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Sometimes it makes you wonder if you can trust anything these Asian suppliers say. They are competing with Apple and also a vendor. With the leaks and the knock offs, stealing IP and everything else, how long can these relationships last? It is definitely the Achilles' heel for Apple.

Agreed, you'd think SJ would be looking at finding ways to avoid this even if it means building his own automated fabrication plants here or abroad. Catching up by Q2 in 2011? Sheesh!
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post #21 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

It tells us that the iPad is hugely popular, but also that the panel is unique as well, nobody else seems at this stage even close to coming up with a competing product, half a year into the iPad being revealed.

Yes and I often wonder what all those folks bought after they wrote how they'd not buy an iPad but rather the 'far superior' one from ... various names inserted here.
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post #22 of 42
Se it wasn't Apple artificially creating limited supply to increase the hype, it was the component supplier. Running at full capacity, yeah right.

Or maybe its a Microsoft led conspiracy to limit the product capacity to make things harder on Apple.
post #23 of 42
I'm not sure what Asian has to do with this. I really hope you are not trying to say all Asians are in ethical or can't be trusted. If you are it is a sad comment on you as a person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Sometimes it makes you wonder if you can trust anything these Asian suppliers say. They are competing with Apple and also a vendor.

And this is a surprise? Get real and learn a bit about business.

Beside at the level Apple works business relationships are built on trust and an epectation of ethical behavior. Their may be lawyers crossing the tees and dotting the eyes but it is the handshake and the relationship between CEOs that make or breaks deals.
Quote:
With the leaks and the knock offs, stealing IP and everything else, how long can these relationships last? It is definitely the Achilles' heel for Apple.

Well dealing with China is bad for most of America, so Apple isn't alone here. The problem is China is one of the few places in the world that has the ability to put electronics production lines into operation at low cost.

As to how long the relationships can last, that is simple a very long time. Take the example of Samsung a vendor that Apple has had a very long relationship with. That relatioship will remain solid for a very long time as long as the principals trust each other and each side acts in good faith. The A4 processor is a good example here, Apple could have went with a number of chip foundries to produce the A4 but remained with Samsung. It wasn't about technology as that came from Intrinsity, rather I believe it is about having a partner you can trust. The fact that Intrinsity was also working with Samsung prior to Apples buy out factors in there too.

In any event people have trouble here reading between the lines or for that matter taking comments from CEOs at face value. Apple has already said that they grossly underestimated the demand for iPad and are now placing orders for double what was expected.

It is pretty easy to build a production line for a million items a month, get it setup and running smoothly. It does not however happen instantly. Doubling your production takes the same amount of time as it took to make the first production line. So LG has to literally build another production line which again takes time.

What has happened here is that Apple missed badly on expected production demand. So what likely happened is that the CEOs of the various companies work with Apple sat around a round table or a virtual one and went over the expected production demand trying to fit capacity to that demand. There in they determined what sort of plants had to be built and committed to a timetable to get the production lines up. At that time production capacity is fixed more or less. This likely happened early in 2009. Some parts of the production process might be easy to duplicate but what this comment, from the LG CEO, is telling us is that doubling production on the LCD line isn't that easy and is indeed the limiting factor. Setting up a production line with complex tools can take months and that only happens after the tools arrive.

One thing I don't disagree with you is on the need for manufactures like Apple to do more manufacturing in the USA. However that has nothing to do with being Able to trust Asian manufactures. It is more about industrial capacity, quality of life and national security. Much of manufacturing went to Asia due to herd mentality and irrational consumer demand for ever cheaper gadgets.

Know don't think I'm against international commerce or free trade. Rather I think that companies like Apple need to demonstrate some balance with respect to sourcing a devices components. Producing A4 in the US would be setting a good example. That doesn't mean that Apple should build it's own plants (that is another discussion) but rather they should partner with foundries in the US.


Dave
post #24 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingKuei View Post

Sadly, I guess that means we will NOT see the same "Retina Display" in the next update to the iPad then. If LG is saying they won't even catch up on current IPS display production at this size, it would seem to indicate that the next refresh (assuming Apple sticks with an annual update cycle for iPad) will see the iPad v2 continue to use the same display until a higher density display can be manufactured en masse.

That's too bad because I'm really really liking my iPhone 4's display. Going back to 3GS displays and even my computer display, I can really feel the difference that a high pixel density screen brings.

Same here. I'm holding off on an iPad until the next gen hoping they will improve the screen rez and put in forward cam. Until then, I'm going to enjoy using my iPhone 4 as the screen has definitely made a difference for me. By the time the next gen iPad comes out, i'm sure apps tailored for the larger screen will be more common place, too.
post #25 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

One thing I don't disagree with you is on the need for manufactures like Apple to do more manufacturing in the USA. However that has nothing to do with being Able to trust Asian manufactures. It is more about industrial capacity, quality of life and national security. Much of manufacturing went to Asia due to herd mentality and irrational consumer demand for ever cheaper gadgets.

Know don't think I'm against international commerce or free trade. Rather I think that companies like Apple need to demonstrate some balance with respect to sourcing a devices components. Producing A4 in the US would be setting a good example. That doesn't mean that Apple should build it's own plants (that is another discussion) but rather they should partner with foundries in the US.


Dave


I couldn't agree more with these sentiments on all levels. I can't help suspecting SJ is thinking along these lines too.
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post #26 of 42
An iPad with Retina Display, assuming you hold it the same distance as iPhone, 330 PPI is required. Which is 2.5 times the pixel density of current iPad. Which means 2560 x 1920 resolution.

Technically this is not impossible. There are PPI of up to ~400 in DC and world record of 2200 PPI. However getting this with IPS, Touchscreen mode, and mass availability is a completely different story.

And i dont understand where is the High System Power requirement for displaying High Res. Unless we are playing games, otherwise we are perfectly capable of using High Res in Day to Day operation.
post #27 of 42
The more i use my ipad the less i like my 3GS

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post #28 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Sure but they make displays for anyone who wants one, passing on whatever they learn from Apple.

Not if Apple has any associated engineering patents connected to the displays. I have no inside knowledge in this matter.

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post #29 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

LG Display's CEO said Thursday that the company had been unable to fulfill orders for displays used in Apple's iPad, but promised "without fail" to catch up with demand by Q2 2011.

Just in time for the launch of iPad v2 when no doubt sales will explode again and leave demand exceeding supply once again.
post #30 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7600/132 View Post

Why is it that so many people keep saying this even though the solution is stupid obvious? Just redesign the back of the iMac so it can be taken off its stand and put flat on the desk. The iMac's chin becomes a wrist rest.

Go check out the picures of the Wacom Cintiq is you need help imagining how this could work.

There are other reasons why a direct touchscreen interface is poorly suited to Mac OS X, but I think they could eventually be solved as well, if Apple wanted too.

It's just really aggrevating to hear the same reason over and over, even though it has already been addressed many times in the past.

"Wacom's most advanced pen technology" ? That is not quite touchscreen.

I have a 24" iMac, and it is quite heavy. If I laid it down flat, I am not going to have a good view while sitting down.

Apple has the capability to amend the GUI. But, I still maintain that your solution is not sensible ergonomically.

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post #31 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Demand = Desirability... (almost) Everyone Wins with a little bit of waiting.

Having just read the thread about the 9 new countries and long lines I have to disagree with your thoughts although initially I was thinking the same thing.

There is a 'moment' for these things and iPad's moment is now. No doubt iPad Mk. II is under development but for now Apple need to move these the current iPads while the competition is still in the dust cloud trying to copy.

IMHO Apple should have better planned the ability to meet demands (and I don't fault Apple too often). All I can think is the demand must be way beyond Apple's wildest dreams to be caught this short (iPhone as well as iPad) unless as others have suggested they are being constrained deliberately by nefarious means. That does seems far fetched but it would be awful if true.
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post #32 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by BertP View Post

"Wacom's most advanced pen technology" ? That is not quite touchscreen.

I have a 24" iMac, and it is quite heavy. If I laid it down flat, I am not going to have a good view while sitting down.

Apple has the capability to amend the GUI. But, I still maintain that your solution is not sensible ergonomically.

I suspect there is an angle at which a large touch screen is quite ergonomic if laid down. A grand piano is played horizontal after all. Obviously you don't want to reach too far out in front but tucked up close you could reach a lot of space without back ache. Perhaps the screen could curve around you slightly. The vertical inclination I suspect would be about 15 to 20 degrees but adjustable. I truly think this would be a wonderful FCPro work station if full touch FCPro were available.

So to the point, a detachable 24" screen at the correct inclination and height and distance from the user would be quite easy and pleasant to use I think. Imagine a VR keyboard app
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post #33 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by BertP View Post

"Wacom's most advanced pen technology" ? That is not quite touchscreen.

I have a 24" iMac, and it is quite heavy. If I laid it down flat, I am not going to have a good view while sitting down.

Apple has the capability to amend the GUI. But, I still maintain that your solution is not sensible ergonomically.

An iMac is heavy, but it comes with a stand that holds it in place. People seem to have this impression of a false duality with regards to angle, horizontal versus vertical. With some form factor changes, I think somewhere in between would be ideal. If you build it into the center of something like a drafting table with adjustable height and angle, I think it would be quite nice. For several reasons, I don't think Apple will be the one to do it, it would be a niche item, people would be too unfamiliar with that style of work, and it would be very expensive.
post #34 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Having just read the thread about the 9 new countries and long lines I have to disagree with your thoughts although initially I was thinking the same thing.

His premise is off. its a causal relationship. Demand is an effect of desirability. As for everyone win wins when they wait, thats is complete BS. If you cant sell as many units as you could have had you had the supply available then you are losing sales. If the customer cant get the product they want then they may lose interest or buy from a competitor.

Luckily for Apple no one else has a competitive product to offer so the iPad has the market for awhile. Hopefully, for their sake, they can get their production up to meet demand.

This isnt the first time this has happened and it surely wont be the last. Diseconomy of scale is a real issue for Apple. They will eventually have to introduce more products using different components to deal with this growing component supply issue or risk losing sales and customers, possibly forever.
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post #35 of 42
Ah-mazing. Apple is the only company making iPad sized touch screen devices that I know of and they eat up all of capacity for production. Kindle uses e-inc and I don't think they are touch screen. I don't even think nook is touch screen (except for that small lower display).
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post #36 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

An iMac is heavy, but it comes with a stand that holds it in place. People seem to have this impression of a false duality with regards to angle, horizontal versus vertical. With some form factor changes, I think somewhere in between would be ideal. I don't think Apple will be the one to do it though. If you build it into the center of something like a drafting table with adjustable height and angle, I think it would be quite nice.

I can imagine Mr. Ives having a blast designing such a screen. You move your hand over a pad and the scree silently moves to various angles depending on your requirement at that given moment.
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post #37 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

His premise is off. it’s a causal relationship. Demand is an effect of desirability. As for everyone win wins when they wait, that’s is complete BS. If you can’t sell as many units as you could have had you had the supply available then you are losing sales. If the customer can’t get the product they want then they may lose interest or buy from a competitor.

Luckily for Apple no one else has a competitive product to offer so the iPad has the market for awhile. Hopefully, for their sake, they can get their production up to meet demand.

This isn’t the first time this has happened and it surely won’t be the last. Diseconomy of scale is a real issue for Apple. They will eventually have to introduce more products using different components to deal with this growing component supply issue or risk losing sales and customers, possibly forever.

Yes exactly! Imagine if there were a Google Pad right now and in plentiful supply. I and many of us would still wait but perhaps not so with the less Apple-centric. Awoken to the concept by Apple but unable to buy.

I have a feeling Apple maybe thinking about their own manufacturing capabilities down the road. Not necessarily for everything but for key components such as the glass screens.
Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
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nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini.
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Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini.
Reply
post #38 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I can imagine Mr. Ives having a blast designing such a screen. You move your hand over a pad and the scree silently moves to various angles depending on your requirement at that given moment.

A drafting table concept does make sense to me. Have at it, Mr. Ives. And, TFT screen technology will help out as well.

Basically, I'm saying that Apple can do better than the conventional touch screen for laptops and desktops.

Nullis in verba -- "on the word of no one"

 

 

 

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Nullis in verba -- "on the word of no one"

 

 

 

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post #39 of 42
It's time for Apple to become a manufacturer instead of just a designer. We call Apple a manufacturer but really they just design the products and hire outsiders to build them. It would be great if they just created real factories in the USA and started building things.

I would like to see made in the USA stamped on my Apple products. It could be done if the company decided to do it. They could use the income from the iAds to pay for the labor. Apple could turn around the USA economy in a big way if in addition to building their products here they would get all of their raw materials here. Apple could start with the iPods and move into making the more intricate things as time went on.
post #40 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Having just read the thread about the 9 new countries and long lines I have to disagree with your thoughts although initially I was thinking the same thing.

There is a 'moment' for these things and iPad's moment is now. No doubt iPad Mk. II is under development but for now Apple need to move these the current iPads while the competition is still in the dust cloud trying to copy.

IMHO Apple should have better planned the ability to meet demands (and I don't fault Apple too often). All I can think is the demand must be way beyond Apple's wildest dreams to be caught this short (iPhone as well as iPad) unless as others have suggested they are being constrained deliberately by nefarious means. That does seems far fetched but it would be awful if true.

True, there is a risk Apple may be overtaken somehow. But it is clear iPad is a new platform in and of itself. I don't think it is just a fad... Apple is looking at iPad long term now.

Nonetheless, Apple also has to look long term on their manufacturing capability, that I agree.
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