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Official Christian Thread! - Page 8

post #281 of 444
8/16/10 at 8:15am
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
I'm not saying I want marriage. I'm saying that we should not deny gays. Mormons have only abandoned polygamy to try to fit in with society. They were persecuted and finally changed, although you still see quite a bit of under-the-table polygamy in Utah. I think Mormons are some of the biggest nutjobs on the planet, but I see no reason to deny them the right to marry whoever they want, however many they want, as long as they are all consenting adults.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #282 of 444
8/16/10 at 8:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I'm not saying I want marriage. I'm saying that we should not deny gays. Mormons have only abandoned polygamy to try to fit in with society. They were persecuted and finally changed, although you still see quite a bit of under-the-table polygamy in Utah. I think Mormons are some of the biggest nutjobs on the planet, but I see no reason to deny them the right to marry whoever they want, however many they want, as long as they are all consenting adults.

I hope this clarifies things for you:

Polygamy: Latter-day Saints and the Practice of Plural Marriage

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #283 of 444
8/16/10 at 12:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I don't think you can say that with absolute certainty.

Aren't you part of a cult which believes the bible and the book of Mormon to be the word of god but you admit that you are not sure?
Aren't you anti taxes but you pay 10% of your income to an organization which you can not control by voting how your money is used?
Do you feel your money has been well spent (upward of $ 30,000,000 so far) to promote unconstitutional discrimination in California?

My certainty is a lot more certain than yours.
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #284 of 444
8/16/10 at 1:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Aren't you part of a cult which believes the bible and the book of Mormon to be the word of god but you admit that you are not sure?
Aren't you anti taxes but you pay 10% of your income to an organization which you can not control by voting how your money is used?
Do you feel your money has been well spent (upward of $ 30,000,000 so far) to promote unconstitutional discrimination in California?

My certainty is a lot more certain than yours.

You stated that "not one" atheist believes all Muslims are terrorists. I disagree, and I stand by my statement that you cannot possibly know that for certain.

Regarding your other statements:

I am part of a worldwide religion with 13,000,000+ members.

All Mormons are "anti-tax", or do you mean me specifically? Political views of our members are as diverse as the nations they represent. Did you know Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) is a Mormon?

Tithing money is considered sacred and used to fund church operations around the world. I am not forced to pay tithing under threat of imprisonment or other penalties.

No tithing money was used to fund the "Yes on Prop 8" campaign. Any contributions made by Mormons were those of individual members directly to the campaign, not through the church. I personally did not donate to the campaign.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #285 of 444
8/16/10 at 2:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I hope this clarifies things for you:

Polygamy: Latter-day Saints and the Practice of Plural Marriage

I don't know much about your religion so perhaps you can clarify for me whether, according to your link the founder asked God and was told multiple wives was good and then 60 years or so later some guy who headed the church was told by God that he'd changed His mind and so that leader said that those members who follow God's old rules (which were illegal under the laws of kings etc) will be bannished from the church. Sounds like BS to me.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #286 of 444
8/16/10 at 2:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I don't know much about your religion so perhaps you can clarify for me whether, according to your link the founder asked God and was told multiple wives was good and then 60 years or so later some guy who headed the church was told by God that he'd changed His mind and so that leader said that those members who follow God's old rules (which were illegal under the laws of kings etc) will be bannished from the church. Sounds like BS to me.

From the article I linked to:

Quote:
The standard doctrine of the Church is monogamy, as it always has been, as indicated in the Book of Mormon (Jacob chapter 2): Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none. For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

In other words, the standard of the Lords people is monogamy unless the Lord reveals otherwise. Latter-day Saints believe the season the Church practiced polygamy was one of these exceptions.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #287 of 444
8/16/10 at 2:56pm
Further reading.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #288 of 444
8/16/10 at 3:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Further reading.

Gosh we are so not interested in your cult.
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #289 of 444
8/16/10 at 3:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Gosh we are so not interested in your cult.

A cult?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #290 of 444
8/16/10 at 3:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

From the article I linked to:

Yes, I did read that, but your founder (or one of them) changed that and then the head of the church did his thing. I'd be curious to know what the powers that be stance was and how it pressured your church to change it's ways. I'll read your "further reading" link over the coming days.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #291 of 444
8/16/10 at 3:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I don't know much about your religion so perhaps you can clarify for me whether, according to your link the founder asked God and was told multiple wives was good and then 60 years or so later some guy who headed the church was told by God that he'd changed His mind and so that leader said that those members who follow God's old rules (which were illegal under the laws of kings etc) will be bannished from the church. Sounds like BS to me.

One could possibly argue that polygamy is the natural state of humankind. I think you will find abundant evidence for this in the secular sphere.

Of course in the religious realm it is the norm rather than the exception: it is a universal in the Old Testament and also in Islam and many other religions.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #292 of 444
8/21/10 at 10:38pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Jazz, this is relevant to you and your take on missionaries.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #293 of 444
8/22/10 at 8:25am
Mormons believe that all human beings, whether in this life or the next, will have the opportunity to learn about the Plan of Salvation and decide for themselves whether they will accept or reject it.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #294 of 444
8/23/10 at 5:00am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Mormons believe that all human beings, whether in this life or the next, will have the opportunity to learn about the Plan of Salvation and decide for themselves whether they will accept or reject it.

Sad that the Mormons are not the recipients of the favor routinely given the Muslims by the liberal media in this nation. If Brigham Young received have the bias routinely extended to Muhammad things would be far different; imagine the rage, for example, over incorrect drawings of Brigham Young!!!
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post #295 of 444
8/23/10 at 9:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Mormons believe that all human beings, whether in this life or the next, will have the opportunity to learn about the Plan of Salvation and decide for themselves whether they will accept or reject it.

Only if they wear the proper undergarment in the afterlife, of course.
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #296 of 444
8/23/10 at 9:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Only if they wear the proper undergarment in the afterlife, of course.

Clever attempt at a jab, there. I've heard them all.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #297 of 444
9/1/10 at 9:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Read my post again. Now answer this question...

Where did I say ALL women in the LDS Church are being forced into the housewife role?

In fact I pointed it out that lots of women love being in the housewife role.

But there are those that want to be Surgeons. There are those that want to be fire fighters. There are those that want to be politicians. There are those that want to run a business as a CEO.

tonton, I thought it might be better to continue this conversation in this thread. I hope you don't mind.

There are people of all genders and all walks of life who have dreams and aspirations they set aside for many reasons. I, myself, once aspired to be a music educator (hence my moniker, as I have a fondness for jazz music).

I know you didn't say that ALL women are being forced to do things against their will - that was my bad. You are, however, suggesting that the women of my church are being somehow prevented or discouraged from having careers or pursuing their own. That is simply not true.

For example, an unmarried woman is the President and CEO of Deseret Book (a bookstore owned by the LDS church), and has served as the general president of the women's Relief Society in the church.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #298 of 444
9/6/10 at 2:50am
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Is this the correct thread to bring this up?

Show you are human. Show you can take a joke. :P

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #299 of 444
9/8/10 at 12:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Is this the correct thread to bring this up?

Show you are human. Show you can take a joke. :P

Didn't it miss out the bit:

"I want to be hung like this and rise from the dead after three days"

?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #300 of 444
9/8/10 at 12:43pm
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." Gandhi

Nobody has ever put it better. A wonderful quote.... and one that Jesus, if around, would MOST THOROUGHLY endorse!
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #301 of 444
9/8/10 at 2:15pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Didn't it miss out the bit:

"I want to be hung like this and rise from the dead after three days"

?

Penis joke.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #302 of 444
9/8/10 at 2:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." Gandhi

Nobody has ever put it better. A wonderful quote.... and one that Jesus, if around, would MOST THOROUGHLY endorse!

Isn't a bit sweeping though?

Seriously, yes there are some pretty seriously whacked out "Christians" like Fred Phelps and Terry Jones, and there are even a lot of people who are much less like this but have some confused notions and views. But there are also a lot of people (especially the one's I've known) who, while imperfect and trying to find the best way to navigate through life in a God honoring way, are nothing like these examples or the caricatures presented when one wishes to dis Christianity. I cannot think of any Christian I know who wouldn't be appalled at these most visible examples (e.g., Terry Jones) and are people who would (and do) generally go out of their way to help their fellow man. They are very, very decent and kind (but, yes, imperfect) people.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #303 of 444
9/8/10 at 11:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Penis joke.

Ah...I guess i'm one of the ones without a sense of humour! I get it now... hahah
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #304 of 444
9/9/10 at 11:53am
A THOUGHT FOR TODAY:

The World is divided into armed camps ready to commit genocide just because we can't agree on whose fairy tales to believe.
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post #305 of 444
9/9/10 at 12:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post

A THOUGHT FOR TODAY:

The World is divided into armed camps ready to commit genocide just because we can't agree on whose fairy tales to believe.

That's not a thought at all......

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #306 of 444
9/9/10 at 12:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post

A THOUGHT FOR TODAY:

The World is divided into armed camps ready to commit genocide just because we can't agree on whose fairy tales to believe.

nailed it!

allah likes to look at asses facing west, while god likes necks. the one who's name can not be spoken likes a rhythmic bowing combined with mumbling. So smart.
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #307 of 444
9/9/10 at 12:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

That's not a thought at all......


Are you saying that's not true, Or that it's a fact and you don't have to think about it?
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post #308 of 444
9/9/10 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post

Are you saying that's not true?

I am saying that is not a thought as such but an ongoing mantra that is repeated parrot-like by people of a certain belief. But like others of other beliefs might repeat "Jesus saves" or "God hates sin , loves the sinners" or even "Allahu akbar".

The fact is that they all believe that they are stating 'the Truth' and none of it is 'thought' per se - it is repetition. It is sloganising. It is a statement of belonging to a certain group.....but it is not thought.

Actually it is not true either as you raise it. It is false on several levels:

1) The world is not divided into armed camps. The unarmed camps are by far the majority of any division. Unless you count Nation States as armed camps then I would agree but that would take us into politics and not religion so still wrong.

2) The 'armed camps' do not wish to commit genocide in the main. Small numbers may actually do so like the Nazis or the LRA or perhaps the Armenian massacres but it is a very, very small minority.

3) They do not want to kill because they cannot agree on what to believe. Very simplistic. Poor argument. Money and Land are by far the more prominent reasons.

4) 'Fairy Tales' is sloganising again. There are Folkloric elements in religion but it is a phenomena of a very different order.

So yes, as you bring it up, untrue and inaccurate on almost every level - which is because it is not thought through.

A bit of thinking would have spotted these elementary errors.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #309 of 444
9/9/10 at 4:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I am saying that is not a thought as such but an ongoing mantra that is repeated parrot-like by people of a certain belief. But like others of other beliefs might repeat "Jesus saves" or "God hates sin , loves the sinners" or even "Allahu akbar".

The fact is that they all believe that they are stating 'the Truth' and none of it is 'thought' per se - it is repetition. It is sloganising. It is a statement of belonging to a certain group.....but it is not thought.

Actually it is not true either as you raise it. It is false on several levels:

1) The world is not divided into armed camps. The unarmed camps are by far the majority of any division. Unless you count Nation States as armed camps then I would agree but that would take us into politics and not religion so still wrong.

2) The 'armed camps' do not wish to commit genocide in the main. Small numbers may actually do so like the Nazis or the LRA or perhaps the Armenian massacres but it is a very, very small minority.

3) They do not want to kill because they cannot agree on what to believe. Very simplistic. Poor argument. Money and Land are by far the more prominent reasons.

4) 'Fairy Tales' is sloganising again. There are Folkloric elements in religion but it is a phenomena of a very different order.

So yes, as you bring it up, untrue and inaccurate on almost every level - which is because it is not thought through.

A bit of thinking would have spotted these elementary errors.

And you repeating YOUR ongoing mantra doesn't make it true either. None of what you said has basis in fact. If you believe that any religion is fact to anyone not raised or brainwashed to believe in that religion you are the one who hasn't thought it through. "They have to be carefully taught."
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post #310 of 444
9/9/10 at 4:48pm
Why Mormons Build Temples

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #311 of 444
9/9/10 at 5:01pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Yes yes, we get it. Sky daddy said spend money on buildings instead of people. Defending disgusting tax-exempt opulence makes you look bad. There is nothing charitable about your palaces. You want to construct these monstrosities? Pay taxes on that money that is to be used for non-charitable things. That goes for any other religion that wants to build gilded behemoths, too.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #312 of 444
9/9/10 at 5:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

In your worldview, who created man? How could god who is all powerful and created everything NOT create evil? How can the final responsibility not go to god?

I ran into a fascinating talk on the web entitled, "Joseph Smith and the Problem of Evil." An interesting read.

http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=1644
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post #313 of 444
9/9/10 at 6:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lermentov View Post

I ran into a fascinating talk on the web entitled, "Joseph Smith and the Problem of Evil." An interesting read.

http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=1644

Wow, that one is a gem. I'm going to have to study it in detail. Thanks for sharing!

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #314 of 444
9/11/10 at 3:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Yes yes, we get it. Sky daddy said spend money on buildings instead of people. Defending disgusting tax-exempt opulence makes you look bad. There is nothing charitable about your palaces. You want to construct these monstrosities? Pay taxes on that money that is to be used for non-charitable things. That goes for any other religion that wants to build gilded behemoths, too.

Some religious buildings are culturally relevant outside of their religious context though: I would cite Gothic cathedrals such as Notre Dame, the mosques of Sinan, Persian religious architecture etc.

These are part of our human heritage purely as buildings and many are not only masterpieces but represent significant innovations in architecture such as the dome at Hagia Sophia.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #315 of 444
9/11/10 at 11:45am
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
But they are not charitable in the least. Don't abuse the tax free status.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #316 of 444
9/11/10 at 11:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Some religious buildings are culturally relevant outside of their religious context though: I would cite Gothic cathedrals such as Notre Dame, the mosques of Sinan, Persian religious architecture etc.

These are part of our human heritage purely as buildings and many are not only masterpieces but represent significant innovations in architecture such as the dome at Hagia Sophia.

This is proof how under the guise of religion simple folk have been kept as poor as possible. They paid not only with their $ but also with many of their lives to build these temples of evil bigger than any other structure of their time.

Greek temples were the bank of the people. Christians have taken the same concept but made them banks of the church.
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #317 of 444
9/11/10 at 1:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

This is proof how under the guise of religion simple folk have been kept as poor as possible. They paid not only with their $ but also with many of their lives to build these temples of evil bigger than any other structure of their time.

Greek temples were the bank of the people. Christians have taken the same concept but made them banks of the church.

But sometimes it honors those who build and restore them.

http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/j/MSNBC/C....grid-10x2.jpg

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39037897...d_news-europe/

I think that you will find in many ancient and recent cultures that temples or religious structures were the predominant structures in their society. The structures were monuments to their faith. You will find these in any religion -- Christian, Muslim, Judaism, Buddhism, in cultures of ancient Middle and South America, etc.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #318 of 444
10/3/10 at 11:59am
seg, another book you may be interested in reading:

The Great Apostasy, by James E. Talmage

From the preface:

Quote:
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints proclaims the restoration
of the Gospel and the re-establishment of the Church as of old, in this, the
Dispensation of the Fulness of Times. Such restoration and re-establishment,
with the modern bestowal of the Holy Priesthood, would be unnecessary and
indeed impossible had the Church of Christ continued among men with un-
broken succession of Priesthood and power, since the "meridian of time."

The restored Church affirms that a general apostasy developed during
and after the apostolic period, and that the primitive Church lost its power,
authority, and graces as a divine institution, and degenerated into an earthly
organization only. The significance and importance of the great apostasy,
as a condition precedent to the re-establishment of the Church in modern
times, is obvious. If the alleged apostasy of the primitive Church was not a
reality, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not the divine in-
stitution its name proclaims.

The evidence of the decline and final extinction of the primitive Church
among men is found in scriptural record and in secular history. In the follow-
ing pages the author has undertaken to present a summary of the most im-
portant of these evidences. In so doing he has drawn liberally from many
sources of information, with due acknowledgment of all citations. This little
work has been written in the hope that it may prove of service to our mission-
ary elders in the field, to classes and quorum organizations engaged in the study
of theological subjects at home, and to earnest investigators of the teachings
and claims of the restored Church of Jesus Christ.

Salt Lake City, Utah, JAMES E. TALMAGE.

November 1, 1909.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #319 of 444
10/3/10 at 1:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

seg, another book you may be interested in reading:

The Great Apostasy, by James E. Talmage

From the preface:

Cheers, I might check it out. I have a lot of time for the LDS. Not sure why some people get their knickers in a twist on this subject - there are so many actually bad things to get worked up about.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #320 of 444
10/3/10 at 6:33pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Relevant:

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
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