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Official Christian Thread! - Page 10

post #361 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

And now that I'm home, I can finally post the apropos Bad Religion lyrics...

God's Love




They call it God’s love
My pain is God’s love

Hey BR! It is nice to see you around here. I do hope you get some time to sit back and listen to the audio that I linked in an earlier reply regarding the prodigal son. The man who gives the message is an old dude and he is masterful at getting the point across that I feel is key to understanding God. That is the issue of what I call "the condition of the heart".

The link again:

http://bethesdafortworth.com/clienti...mage_10_24.mp3


Listen if you wish and let me know what that message means to you.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #362 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

The lead singer of Bad Religion, Greg Graffin, actually has a masters in geology and a Ph.D. in Zoology (with his dissertation on religion and evolutionary biology). He is a great modern day thinker, and not just as one of the pioneers of the entire punk music movement.

He is supportive of the philosophy of evolutionary biology and the philosophy of secular humanism.

I don't see how he is any more a "great" modern day thinker than say you, me or Seg.

You attribute something to this guy which is fine by me trust me. I attribute something to Jesus.

This guy has no understanding of God and is on a mission to lead others down the path he has carved for himself. This too is none of my business. It is a free country.

Good for him if that is his gig. Good for those who willingly follow him.

If this is your cup of tea by all means find ways to soak yourself in it. Buy it in bulk and share it with others.

I am serious. I do the same with my faith. I find sources which inspire me and ring true to me and I share it.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #363 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightcrawler View Post

That's intellectually weak don't you think?

Actually no... well...maybe, it's relative isn't it? Compared to most of what passes as theology it's quite strong. Philosophically probably very weak.

Quote:
If Adam and Eve were the only two humans then there obviously were no need for any declarations or pledges, there would be no other women and men that the two could practice adultery with.

So the declarations start at the first generation then. Ok..grant you that. Forward 20 years or so to Cain and Abel.

Presumably the declarations would be needed then?

If not when? Next generation? The one after that? Where are these declarations actually stated? Do they exist somewhere so we can check?

Quote:
Likewise with Cain and his wife, as far as I remember the genesis-account claimed long lifes for Adam and Eve, multiple hundred of years, and dozens and dozens of children born during it . Enough to provide wifes for Cain, sure it's incest from today's view... but this is again lazy thinking, because then there was only that possibility, so it would be the defacto-norm, more than a norm actually, since a norm assumes variant possibilities.

I'm not going to go there...I can't do it. I typed out a lot of stuff but I'm just .......not........going.......there......
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #364 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post



So the declarations start at the first generation then. Ok..grant you that. Forward 20 years or so to Cain and Abel.

Presumably the declarations would be needed then?

If not when? Next generation? The one after that? Where are these declarations actually stated? Do they exist somewhere so we can check?

Good question, I don't know when exactly they started with the ritual of marriage, but what's your point?


Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I'm not going to go there...I can't do it. I typed out a lot of stuff but I'm just .......not........going.......there......

The thought of incest makes you feel all dirty, huh?
I disagree, and could prove you're wrong; care to offer any proof that you're not wrong?
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I disagree, and could prove you're wrong; care to offer any proof that you're not wrong?
Reply
post #365 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

He is supportive of the philosophy of evolutionary biology and the philosophy of secular humanism.

I don't see how he is any more a "great" modern day thinker than say you, me or Seg.

You attribute something to this guy which is fine by me trust me. I attribute something to Jesus.

This guy has no understanding of God and is on a mission to lead others down the path he has carved for himself. This too is none of my business. It is a free country.

Good for him if that is his gig. Good for those who willingly follow him.

If this is your cup of tea by all means find ways to soak yourself in it. Buy it in bulk and share it with others.

I am serious. I do the same with my faith. I find sources which inspire me and ring true to me and I share it.

Fellows

I just don't get atheism Fellows - I've tried to empathize and tbh, there are some things in it that I think are good like rationalism and skepticism (up to a point) but the problem I have with it is there is no concept of 'seeking' which - as far as I can tell, though could be wrong - stems from a sense of utter certainty which imo, leads to a form of arrogance or lack of humility.

I don't mean this in a spiritual sense - though I think humility is one of the greatest lessons to learn from spirituality, certainly I need to learn it but don't do to well - but just as everyday living.

They are convinced they've found the answer. Ok...fair enough...so are many religious people but often in the latter case this can make them MORE humble.

If a scientist started an experiment saying "I already know the result will be X - there is no doubt and hardly any point testing it...anyone who thinks a different result will occur is a moron".

Ok...if it's something like testing gravity then ok - though we could leave off the 'moron' bit maybe and explain kindly if someone doesn't understand - but if it is something that is not proved then well....

I just think that finding 'the truth' is a big undertaking. Tbh I'm pretty sure I haven't met anyone with the answers...certainly I don't have any.

Life's too short to be blinkered and locked into one thing....my policy is to have an open heart and mind and keep trying to do your best. If you feel a relationship to any degree with something you'd call 'God' who is to say that it does not exist?

And certainly not people who are closed to the possibility. I have - believe it or not - actually talked to priests who do not believe in God (!!!!) and I can take it a lot better than from an atheist (though I suppose technically they are atheists hahah) because they are open to all possibilities.

Most atheists I know seem to always demand 'proof' but it makes me laugh because if there were any they don't seem like they would notice it.

If I refuse to accept that elephants exist I will not suddenly realize I was wrong when I see one. I'll just filter it out or call it something else or not see it at all.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #366 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightcrawler View Post

Good question, I don't know when exactly they started with the ritual of marriage, but what's your point?

My point here is that my argument is not an intellectually weak one.

My point before that was that people who get hung up on marriage and cite Biblical or scriptural references have painted themselves into a corner.

In Shi'ism you can even have Mu'ta - temporary marriage.

I once knew a guy who actually habitually did such marriages every couple of weeks for half an hour at a time and then divorced them! Hahahahah!!!!!

All legal.

Quote:
The thought of incest makes you feel all dirty, huh?

Well...my sister is kind of hot....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #367 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

Hey BR! It is nice to see you around here. I do hope you get some time to sit back and listen to the audio that I linked in an earlier reply regarding the prodigal son. The man who gives the message is an old dude and he is masterful at getting the point across that I feel is key to understanding God. That is the issue of what I call "the condition of the heart".

The link again:

http://bethesdafortworth.com/clienti...mage_10_24.mp3

Listen if you wish and let me know what that message means to you.

Fellows

That guy's accent sounds like he's from my home town....he's Welsh right? Who is he?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #368 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Whatever love is, it requires forgiveness. Not conditional forgiveness. Just forgiveness.

I thought Jesus died for everyone so that we are forgiven, no matter what, not only if we believe in Him, not only if we live by His rules (or God forbid, the obsolete and often idiotic "rules" of the VOT--Very Old Testament) but no matter what, even if we have gay sex or cheat on our spouses or get divorced (or all three). Even if we're Muslim or Buddhist or Christine O'Donnell or Socialist or Atheist.

If that's not the case (that we're unconditionally forgiven) then where is the love?

So love to you means you can do whatever you want with no consequences. Correct?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #369 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

That guy's accent sounds like he's from my home town....he's Welsh right? Who is he?

His name is Desmond Evans and yes he is Welsh.

I think it is cool that you took the time to listen to his message. I hope you got a chance to hear it start to finish. I loved his way of delivering this message of the prodigal son from the perspectives of the heart. The heart of the father, the heart of each son involved within the story and the takeaway really is spectacular to me.

Short little bio on Desmond:
http://bethesdafortworth.org/templat...938&PID=643813

Blessings always!

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #370 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I just don't get atheism Fellows - I've tried to empathize and tbh, there are some things in it that I think are good like rationalism and skepticism (up to a point) but the problem I have with it is there is no concept of 'seeking' which - as far as I can tell, though could be wrong - stems from a sense of utter certainty which imo, leads to a form of arrogance or lack of humility.

I don't mean this in a spiritual sense - though I think humility is one of the greatest lessons to learn from spirituality, certainly I need to learn it but don't do to well - but just as everyday living.

They are convinced they've found the answer. Ok...fair enough...so are many religious people but often in the latter case this can make them MORE humble.

If a scientist started an experiment saying "I already know the result will be X - there is no doubt and hardly any point testing it...anyone who thinks a different result will occur is a moron".

Ok...if it's something like testing gravity then ok - though we could leave off the 'moron' bit maybe and explain kindly if someone doesn't understand - but if it is something that is not proved then well....

I just think that finding 'the truth' is a big undertaking. Tbh I'm pretty sure I haven't met anyone with the answers...certainly I don't have any.

Life's too short to be blinkered and locked into one thing....my policy is to have an open heart and mind and keep trying to do your best. If you feel a relationship to any degree with something you'd call 'God' who is to say that it does not exist?

And certainly not people who are closed to the possibility. I have - believe it or not - actually talked to priests who do not believe in God (!!!!) and I can take it a lot better than from an atheist (though I suppose technically they are atheists hahah) because they are open to all possibilities.

Most atheists I know seem to always demand 'proof' but it makes me laugh because if there were any they don't seem like they would notice it.

If I refuse to accept that elephants exist I will not suddenly realize I was wrong when I see one. I'll just filter it out or call it something else or not see it at all.


Ok I have to say... this posting was one after my own heart. You captured me with this one!

I wish to simply add that in regard to humility I am right there with you brother. I am constantly realizing the need for and beauty of humility. I am no better than anyone else with my sometimes botched need for yet more humility. I think humility and yes sorrow are traits of God which when we all learn to understand and "tune in" and look for in our world we start to truly see our brothers and sisters the globe over as "children of God" as I like to put it. Despite differing cultures, backgrounds, beliefs and politics etc. I truly am more sensitive and better at feeling / understanding the pain of my brothers and sisters around the world in their ventures even thought I am not in their shoes.

The global system that we usually find ourself a part of would have us define our differences and sometimes treat our fellow brothers and sisters as less than "children of God".

I don't want to settle for "less".

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #371 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

So love to you means you can do whatever you want with no consequences. Correct?

Huh? Where did I say anything about my love? We're talking about God's love here. My actions don't affect God's love if His love is unconditional.

Now if you want to say that I don't love God if I do actions that are deemed against His word, then you would have a point about my love for God.
post #372 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Huh? Where did I say anything about my love? We're talking about God's love here. My actions don't affect God's love if His love is unconditional.

Now if you want to say that I don't love God if I do actions that are deemed against His word, then you would have a point about my love for God.

I asked to define Love. Not your love or God's love. Love, as a definition will be the same, no matter who is practicing it. Our ability to understand or show love may be different, but love itself is not.

Define Love.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #373 of 444
Define god. I'll happily take the igtheist position if you really want to play these stupid semantic games, Noah.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #374 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

I asked to define Love. Not your love or God's love. Love, as a definition will be the same, no matter who is practicing it. Our ability to understand or show love may be different, but love itself is not.

Define Love.

I didn't define love, nor will I. I simply stated that unconditional love is unconditional. You questioned what I wrote with a completely confused and irrelevant response, I countered your response, and now you're ignoring all that, and going back to the original question? Typical for someone who doesn't seek the truth.
post #375 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

I asked to define Love. Not your love or God's love. Love, as a definition will be the same, no matter who is practicing it. Our ability to understand or show love may be different, but love itself is not.

Define Love.

NoahJ - I'll address this to you but could equally be to Tonton or BR, I say this as a 'believer' rather than an atheist: the essence of belief does not have to be based on proof but it must be based on reason.

You can believe there is life on other planets for example without any proof and still be rational. But I don't think you can rationally believe in life on the moon.

Atheists and believers should - and do in many cases - start from the same point: "what is the truth?" but diverge I think because believers in many cases accept a version of 'truth' that is illogical. Just because they want to believe it.

This is in no way a spiritual pursuit - how can it be?

This business about love etc and God...it's like angels on pinheads in a way. It's just words and not so important. There are more important questions surrounding it and they are very valid. But it seems to be only atheists asking them and one must applaud them for that.

I think they must be asked. Or else how can one find truth? They must be answered also. ANd then the answer must be examined.

For example: who created hell? Did God? Or the Devil? Does the Bible say? I think not....so then it is men's opinion only....God (if you like) has not said.

But if you believe then it is important no? It matters because it can tell you something about your belief.

Another example: in hardline Islamic countries they stone people. Women mostly. They say 'God ordered this'.

Well...show me then....because it matters to me...if you can prove this was the practice of Muhammad then perhaps I reject Islam. If not then I realize it is invented by psychotic men who lie that it is 'from God' and that tells me something too about religion and my relationship to it.

Why accept everything because 'God says so' - in many cases God says no such thing nor is claimed to. The preacher or the Imam is saying it and that is all.

Atheists who point this out can really help far more than any priest or pastor in your own search for truth. Perhaps even they are sent by God (in one sense) because priests, pastors and Imams have gone so wrong and become channels of untruth.

It's a possibility.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #376 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I didn't define love, nor will I. I simply stated that unconditional love is unconditional.

Yes, but you're claiming that love does X and if love is unconditional it must unconditionally do X. In essence you have some definition of what love is and does but you're unwilling to lay it out. We all understand what conditional vs. unconditional means. The definition of those is not under scrutiny here. It is the definition of love. You (and BR) have noted that many people of faith (Christian, Jewish, et al) believe that God's love is unconditional and then go on to claim that you have found conditions for his love based on some sort of action (or lack of). But this is a possible error because the action (or lack of) is about the definition of what love is and does. You (and BR) do have a definition of love but have not clearly described it here, and, according to your definition of it God is not loving when He does X or refrains from doing Y.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #377 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Yes, but you're claiming that love does X and if love is unconditional it must unconditionally do X. In essence you have some definition of what love is and does but you're unwilling to lay it out. We all understand what conditional vs. unconditional means. The definition of those is not under scrutiny here. It is the definition of love. You (and BR) have noted that many people of faith (Christian, Jewish, et al) believe that God's love is unconditional and then go on to claim that you have found conditions for his love based on some sort of action (or lack of). But this is a possible error because the action (or lack of) is about the definition of what love is and does. You (and BR) do have a definition of love but have not clearly described it here, and, according to your definition of it God is not loving when He does X or refrains from doing Y.

I think you are avoiding BR and Tonton's points. You can sidestep them...I've done it myself earlier but actually you can't really refute them - because to do so would mean the core beliefs of the believer are wrong.....so if you don't want to go there you can't go there. But there it is.

I don't have a problem with it personally as I'm not wedded to the wrong theology but it is good they point it out.

I think it was MarcUK who related a story years ago and pretty much exactly the same thing happened to me word for word - it is instructional so I paraphrase it here:

Quote:
Child: Mummy, if you are going to heaven for eternity and I go to hell won't you be upset all eternity?

Mummy: No son...God will wipe out all memory of you....

It is a typical child's question I guess but it hits on a central problem: how can heaven be heaven if there is such sorrow?

Why would God have to remove the memory? If he can do this why not over-ride Free-will in other ways? In fact this idea goes right against "He loves them and doesn't want them to go to hell so he let's them make their own choice...otherwise they;d be robots".

Well...seems like God will relax that rule and make a lot of robots in heaven.

Another point: what sort of God would do that? Does He even perhaps do it now?????

When you get down to these points - the theology and beliefs fall apart. The atheists are actually right - they just make a major mistake: they think that these beliefs being stupid actually are proof there is no God...

It's like if everyone believes a lump of gold is real and I finally prove it is a fake....then I go round shouting "see I told you gold does not exist".

And because everyone believed the fake gold was real they never ever saw any real gold so they all believed it didn't exist too.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #378 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post


Another example: in hardline Islamic countries they stone people. Women mostly. They say 'God ordered this'.

Well...show me then....because it matters to me...if you can prove this was the practice of Muhammad then perhaps I reject Islam. If not then I realize it is invented by psychotic men who lie that it is 'from God' and that tells me something too about religion and my relationship to it.

Why accept everything because 'God says so' - in many cases God says no such thing nor is claimed to. The preacher or the Imam is saying it and that is all.

Atheists who point this out can really help far more than any priest or pastor in your own search for truth. Perhaps even they are sent by God (in one sense) because priests, pastors and Imams have gone so wrong and become channels of untruth.

It's a possibility.

I like the point being made here.

I know many see in the Christian world some who pastor a Church or some "Christians" who go around and proclaim things like "you are going to Hell" etc. I think sometimes this paints the entire body of Christ as hateful self-rightious thugs.

While I am never going to say there is no place as hell I would submit the following.

Jesus said go and make desciples. Jesus did not say go and tell people they are going to hell.

I think some who claim to be Christian who are more of the "you are going to hell" variety create discord among themselves and those around them.

I can clearly understand why some in the world would say well.... Screw that and screw you.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #379 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

I like the point being made here.

I know many see in the Christian world some who pastor a Church or some "Christians" who go around and proclaim things like "you are going to Hell" etc. I think sometimes this paints the entire body of Christ as hateful self-rightious thugs.

While I am never going to say there is no place as hell I would submit the following.

Jesus said go and make desciples. Jesus did not say go and tell people they are going to hell.

I think some who claim to be Christian who are more of the "you are going to hell" variety create discord among themselves and those around them.

I can clearly understand why some in the world would say well.... Screw that and screw you.

Fellows

Exactly.... It's also good to remember that in his lifetime Jesus actually didn't ever hang out with the people who thought like this or taught it.

I think Christians forget sometimes (and atheists) that the situation at that time was one where Jesus was surrounded by fanatics, zealots and general fundies. Hehe.

He didn't spend his time saying they were going to hell and where he did actually condemn them it was purely in order to stop his followers or potential followers doing the same thing.

In fact he spent most of his time hanging out with exactly the people many religious people today are loudly condemning.

Another thing while I need to vent!!! It's this Islam thing again - why can't Christians just say that Muslims have misunderstood something? Why does it have to be 'of the devil'?

Imo this term 'of the devil' is used far too lightly for fat too many things. Sometimes people are human and just make mistakes and get things wrong. Not everything is some diabolical conspiracy. This attitude makes things very though in religion and in the world....

One example: I have quite a lot of sympathy as you probably know with the Emergent Church. Last year a pastor decided to fast at Ramadan - I suppose to empathize with the Muslim community or perhaps he felt some sort of spiritual benefit from it. Whatever, he was not looking for anything else...it was all an expression of his Christian faith.

But how was it received?

Islam is the Antichrist

Al Qaeda supports the Emergent Church

And many more.

Makes you wonder if Jesus does turn back up whether some religious people are going to have a bit of a hard time.

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #380 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

When you get down to these points - the theology and beliefs fall apart. The atheists are actually right - they just make a major mistake: they think that these beliefs being stupid actually are proof there is no God...

Very very very few atheists actually go on to believe that. Many will strongly say there is no (JudeoChristian) God, and that's fine, because the God of the bible is a complete farce. It's really no different than saying unicorns or leprechauns don't exist. I can feel pretty safe saying such things, but I also will happily revise my beliefs if (your favorite word ever) compelling evidence can actually be presented to support their existence. It can't be a burnt piece of toast that looks sort of like Jesus, though. Incredible claims require incredible evidence.

Don't pigeonhole atheists as being so closed-minded. By definition, we aren't. We've had to examine and reject the attempted early childhood brainwashing, just as you did. And I certainly do mean brainwashing when I say it...I was listening to one of those Fellowship Ministries radio stations here in LA for shits and giggles one day and the discussion was about home schooling. There were three people on this panel urging all parents to homeschool their children. One of the people on the panel said that children should not be sent to public schools even with the intention of ministering to others because the statistics show that more children get converted away from Christianity than to it in those public school situations. She went on to say that those children aren't ready to face the world yet because their beliefs haven't been fully solidified yet, so it's important to shield them from public schools until they are good, unshakable Christians. The others on the panel agreed that you have to make sure to start teaching them very early and keep them from outside influences.

Are you fucking kidding me? That's exactly the definition of early childhood brainwashing. So it takes a REAL open mind to be able to reject that level of manipulation. Please, please stop speaking as if atheists are incredibly illogical, closed-minded folks. We really aren't. By definition, we aren't.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
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post #381 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Exactly.... It's also good to remember that in his lifetime Jesus actually didn't ever hang out with the people who thought like this or taught it.

I think Christians forget sometimes (and atheists) that the situation at that time was one where Jesus was surrounded by fanatics, zealots and general fundies. Hehe.

Maybe if Jesus did indeed really exist (again, I point to all those contemporary historians and authors who SHOULD have mentioned him but did not), it turned out to be the fundies he was fighting against decided to kill him, deify him, and appropriate him for their cause. That's certainly more believable than a person literally rising from the dead.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #382 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Very very very few atheists actually go on to believe that. Many will strongly say there is no (JudeoChristian) God, and that's fine, because the God of the bible is a complete farce. It's really no different than saying unicorns or leprechauns don't exist.

I agree with the second part of this but not the first: many atheists do state such things, Hitchens for example. Dawkins also.

He dismantles the Biblical God but uses soft targets to do it and then goes on to extrapolate in general about a more amorphous belief in God.

I see it kind of like advertising and sales (or maybe politics) they don't actually make the statement that is demonstrably untrue or they'd be sued but they imply it from every angle all the the time so people start to believe it and if anyone challenges it then they back down.

It kind of like that beer that was "probably the best lager in the world"

Quote:
I can feel pretty safe saying such things, but I also will happily revise my beliefs if (your favorite word ever) compelling evidence can actually be presented to support their existence.

I agree - but it's good to have the initial question framed. Atheists don't tend to do this in my experience. I prefer "There is no evidence for a bearded man sitting on a cloud getting annoyed because people are having gay sex" to "God does not exist".

Actually I think that is the only way to eradicate the sort of wooly thinking that is the problem. Many religious superstitions are easy to disprove - it's the getting the adherents to accept the proof that's the problem.

Quote:
It can't be a burnt piece of toast that looks sort of like Jesus, though. Incredible claims require incredible evidence.

I disagree with this - I don't think that the concept of God IS an incredible claim.

I think it is a normal human belief that may be hard-wired into us. Aspects of theology may be incredible claims - and we all know which ones - but again, they don't require any evidence at all.....nor does the flat-earth or cold sun. They're just mad ideas or folklore. Why take it seriously?

Quote:
Don't pigeonhole atheists as being so closed-minded.

Some are though. Not all. It's just like religious people - some are, some aren't. On both sides it is the ones that are close-minded that are generalizing about their opposite numbers. Probably the proportions are just about the same in either group.

Quote:
By definition, we aren't.

There you lose me. I see no difference between that statement and a fundie who tells me that because the Bible is correct 'by definition' as it is the word of God.

You may be right, you may even be open-minded but you are never either by definition.

Quote:
We've had to examine and reject the attempted early childhood brainwashing, just as you did. And I certainly do mean brainwashing when I say it...I was listening to one of those Fellowship Ministries radio stations here in LA for shits and giggles one day and the discussion was about home schooling. There were three people on this panel urging all parents to homeschool their children. One of the people on the panel said that children should not be sent to public schools even with the intention of ministering to others because the statistics show that more children get converted away from Christianity than to it in those public school situations. She went on to say that those children aren't ready to face the world yet because their beliefs haven't been fully solidified yet, so it's important to shield them from public schools until they are good, unshakable Christians. The others on the panel agreed that you have to make sure to start teaching them very early and keep them from outside influences.

That's bad - but to be fair, I think this is a particularly US issue. In Europe homeschooling is pretty much a Leftie thing.

You're right though - rejecting conditioning is the thing. It is necessary. No conditioning should ever happen anywhere. It is robbing and destroying people's independence and I am right with atheists on that.....

Quote:
Are you fucking kidding me? That's exactly the definition of early childhood brainwashing. So it takes a REAL open mind to be able to reject that level of manipulation. Please, please stop speaking as if atheists are incredibly illogical, closed-minded folks. We really aren't. By definition, we aren't.

What is? Can't see which bit of my post you are referencing so can't comment much now. Maybe come back to this.

I don't agree though re REAL open minds to resist brainwashing. Imo you just need honesty. If you pray to God and there is nothing there then admit it. Sure, there's fear and it may take years to address but you know deep down the truth I think. Logic and reason are the best way.

Btw - this 'by definition' thing is starting to sound like some sort of ritualistic dogma or mantra.

I have read numerous atheists and if these are the leaders of the 'movement' (we must assume there is some sort of community of you claim a 'we' as a generality) then very many of them are illogical - one in particular I think is very, very closed-minded and possibly racist. Certainly the person I have in mind is extreme right-wing and that - as we know - is never good and always a sign of stupidity.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #383 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Maybe if Jesus did indeed really exist (again, I point to all those contemporary historians and authors who SHOULD have mentioned him but did not), it turned out to be the fundies he was fighting against decided to kill him, deify him, and appropriate him for their cause. That's certainly more believable than a person literally rising from the dead.

Definitely. This is more or less what I believe.

The argument against him rising from the dead is not one of believableness (as it were) because if the Biblical God were true He would be able to do this easily enough.

The argument and proof (imo) that it is false is that it did not do what it purported to. The sacrifice was not a sacrifice (it was nullified by the 'rising again') and in any case it did not work. Ie God failed.

This is irrational and a sign this story was grafted on by ignoble minds.

Perhaps Christ DID actually believe he would 'save the world' by sacrificing himself. Perhaps he even went through with this plan (btw, if you read the Gospels in this light it seems like it is very near the truth - the choosing of Judas is a dead give-away for example, Judas seems like he never had any intention of betrayal - Jesus tells him to do it and afterwards Judas feels so bad he kills himself) but did not rise again.

So he failed. No-one was saved by his sacrifice and no intention of rising again was ever on the cards.

The Church could not have this of course and had to invent the resurrection. But it seems obviously grafted on and is irrational and the seams still show.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #384 of 444
I think a lot of the stronger words used by atheists is falling prey to baser human instincts that occur when being part of a persecuted minority. Like an animal backed into a corner, some atheists will lash out and make bolder, less supportable statements.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #385 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I think a lot of the stronger words used by atheists is falling prey to baser human instincts that occur when being part of a persecuted minority. Like an animal backed into a corner, some atheists will lash out and make bolder, less supportable statements.

Are atheists really persecuted in the US?

If I seem to not accept it it's only because here in Europe they are a bit like kings.. I mean people like Ricky Gervais can say whatever they like....everyone loves it. The only people who complain are old fundie loons and everyone laughs at them.

Dawkins makes documentaries which are shown prime-time and is always on talk shows.

I just don't see it here.

I'm not complaining btw - just saying it like it is.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #386 of 444
The confusion over the definition of atheism is part of the problem that we atheists have to deal with. It's not faith in no god. It's not belief in no good. It's a lack of belief in gods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNDZb0KtJDk&feature=fvw

This is a really, really good video that delves deeply into the definition of atheism.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #387 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Are atheists really persecuted in the US?

If I seem to not accept it it's only because here in Europe they are a bit like kings.. I mean people like Ricky Gervais can say whatever they like....everyone loves it. The only people who complain are old fundie loons and everyone laughs at them.

Dawkins makes documentaries which are shown prime-time and is always on talk shows.

I just don't see it here.

I'm not complaining btw - just saying it like it is.

We are. In some areas of the country more than others. In some, less so. There have been cases where teachers have been fired shortly after it coming out that they are atheists. It's pretty much safest to stay in the atheist closet these days. Where I live, in LA, it's not as bad. But it depends on the neighborhood, too. It's one of those things where you are really unsure how people will react and you've had enough bad experiences to really hope no one brings up religion (unless you're itching for a debate or a confrontation).


http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistb...heitsHated.htm

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2...o_atheists.php

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #388 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post


Perhaps Christ DID actually believe he would 'save the world' by sacrificing himself.

He thought he could he thought he could.... Sure
Quote:
So he failed. No-one was saved by his sacrifice and no intention of rising again was ever on the cards.

The Church could not have this of course and had to invent the resurrection. But it seems obviously grafted on and is irrational and the seams still show.

Yep the Church had to invent the resurrection...

Wow.

Ohh and Jesus failed.. How could I forget.. And you are basing all this on what?
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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post #389 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

He thought he could he thought he could.... Sure


Yep the Church had to invent the resurrection...

Wow.

Ohh and Jesus failed.. How could I forget.. And you are basing all this on what?

It's just an idea Fellows...we shouldn't have limits on our imagination and what we can think!
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #390 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Define god. I'll happily take the igtheist position if you really want to play these stupid semantic games, Noah.

I cannot speak to your position as it is not defined. You are making claims as to what love is or is not but overall your positions don't seem to match what love actually is. I try to see where you are coming from short of saying whether I can agree, disagree or if there is any common ground. However, you (and Tonton) refuse to say what you actually believe Love is. You put a restriction on G-d saying he cannot possibly be loving because he does not let people do X or he cannot be loving because he allows Y or any other number of arguments, but you do not define what Love is. If you cannot define love you cannot say whether someone does or does not love.

By your definition as I read it, G-d cannot possibly love. But Since you won't define it I guess we cannot discuss this much further.

As far as defining G-d, G-d is. Beyond that I have not figured it out. I have many features I attribute to G-d, such as love, power, authority, forgiveness, wrath, knowledge, and more. However, people tend to describe things in terms they comprehend, and perhaps these limited concepts are insufficient to fully understand what G-d is. Beyond that, He is. If anyone has a better definition I am happy to hear it.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #391 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

As far as defining G-d, G-d is. Beyond that I have not figured it out. I have many features I attribute to G-d, such as love, power, authority, forgiveness, wrath, knowledge, and more. However, people tend to describe things in terms they comprehend, and perhaps these limited concepts are insufficient to fully understand what G-d is. Beyond that, He is. If anyone has a better definition I am happy to hear it.

I think this is near some sort of truth - perhaps one's perception of God is limited by one's state and comprehension.

Perhaps one sees God as a reflection of what one is at the time. An angry man might see an angry God, a loving compassionate person will see those things in God.

God is everything and can manifest in any way - the problem is with us and our perception.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #392 of 444
Well, if noah can't come up with a falsifiable definition of god, any further discussion is meaningless. Told you, noah, play these games and I'll happily return to my igtheist foundations.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #393 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Well, if noah can't come up with a falsifiable definition of god, any further discussion is meaningless. Told you, noah, play these games and I'll happily return to my igtheist foundations.

Well, the issue is, I don't believe that anyone on these boards can define Love any more than they can define God.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #394 of 444
Bullshit, Noah. Robert Heinlein came up with an excellent definition years ago.

Quote:
"I'll give you an exact definition. When the happiness of another person becomes as essential to yourself as your own, then the state of love exists."

– Jubal Harshaw to Ben Caxton,

Stranger in a Strange Land

Now, where's that falsifiable definition of god?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #395 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Well, the issue is, I don't believe that anyone on these boards can define Love any more than they can define God.

Bingo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Bullshit, Noah. Robert Heinlein came up with an excellent definition years ago.

That's a BS definition if you don't mind me saying BR. And isn't "Stranger...." a bit sort of....cod philosophy lite? I suppose it's the Christ imagery and anti religious stuff......

But you betray your own world view too much with that definition and why it appeals to you. You see for some people - remember we are all unique and different - happiness just isn't the motivating factor or a very important thing at all.

I can't remember happiness being any form of factor for me since I was about 20. It's just not that important. I don't give a fuck if you are happier than me and if I met you I believe I could say your happiness was more important than mine - purely because I don't measure things with that yardstick so I wouldn't care at all.

I'd be prepared to bet God doesn't either....it's a bit of a selfish perspective to be obsessed with one's own happiness and most religious people have got beyond it. It really is one of the most fundamental religious lessons....before that even....

Most people drawn to religion or spirituality are like that because they've already gone beyond a fixation on their own happiness.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #396 of 444
This is interesting

When I see this guy in the video - regardless of Islam or anything - I see fear and hate. when I research what he says...as one should - I find it to be lies.

When I observe the fruit of his message and teaching I see hate, division and violence.



So I ask myself: is this Christianity? Millions will say it is. Some are even violently protesting against Islam while David Cameron supports them in the political arena with a speech at exactly the same time.



The pastor in the video gives the game away later - he says "There is only one way to God - Jesus Christ" and that is really what most of this is about: a turf war. All the other stuff - war, jihad, shariah - that's just the branding to whip up the hate.

All they really want is people's minds and they don't want Islam cutting in on that.

And of course the money (from the link above)....

Quote:
Steven Emerson has 3,390,000 reasons to fear Muslims.

That's how many dollars Emerson's for-profit company Washington-based SAE Productions collected in 2008 for researching alleged ties between American Muslims and overseas terrorism. The payment came from the Investigative Project on Terrorism Foundation, a nonprofit charity Emerson also founded, which solicits money by telling donors they're in imminent danger from Muslims.

Emerson is a leading member of a multimillion-dollar industry of self-proclaimed experts who spread hate toward Muslims in books and movies, on websites and through speaking appearances.

Leaders of the so-called "anti-jihad" movement portray themselves as patriots, defending America against radical Islam. And they've found an eager audience in ultra-conservative Christians and mosque opponents in Middle Tennessee. One national consultant testified in an ongoing lawsuit aimed at stopping a new Murfreesboro mosque.

But beyond the rhetoric, Emerson's organization's tax-exempt status is facing questions at the same time he's accusing Muslim groups of tax improprieties.

"Basically, you have a nonprofit acting as a front organization, and all that money going to a for-profit," said Ken Berger, president of Charity Navigator, a nonprofit watchdog group. "It's wrong. This is off the charts."
.

I also like the quote in the sidebar:

Quote:
The Rev. Darrel Whaley, pastor of Kingdom Ministries Worship Center, is the leader of a group of evangelical pastors opposed to the Murfreesboro mosque. He says America exists to partner with Israel, to protect Israel.

That's why America exists....guess many citizens will be pleased to hear it.

So...is this Christianity? I would say not but perhaps it is...... one must commend atheists on efforts they make to expose this BS (though they could do more - I guess they don't feel that easy about exposing it as the beneficiary would be Islam and they hate that too).

But if it isn't where is the real Christianity?

I would say that the old saw "why don't moderate Muslims stand up and condemn extremists?" also needs to be applied to Christians.

Why don't they expose these lies and money-seeking?

Why?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #397 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

This is interesting

When I see this guy in the video - regardless of Islam or anything - I see fear and hate. when I research what he says...as one should - I find it to be lies.

When I observe the fruit of his message and teaching I see hate, division and violence.



So I ask myself: is this Christianity? Millions will say it is. Some are even violently protesting against Islam while David Cameron supports them in the political arena with a speech at exactly the same time.



The pastor in the video gives the game away later - he says "There is only one way to God - Jesus Christ" and that is really what most of this is about: a turf war. All the other stuff - war, jihad, shariah - that's just the branding to whip up the hate.

All they really want is people's minds and they don't want Islam cutting in on that.

And of course the money (from the link above)....



I also like the quote in the sidebar:



That's why America exists....guess many citizens will be pleased to hear it.

So...is this Christianity? I would say not but perhaps it is...... one must commend atheists on efforts they make to expose this BS (though they could do more - I guess they don't feel that easy about exposing it as the beneficiary would be Islam and they hate that too).

But if it isn't where is the real Christianity?

I would say that the old saw "why don't moderate Muslims stand up and condemn extremists?" also needs to be applied to Christians.

Why don't they expose these lies and money-seeking?

Why?

I don't support or agree with the fringe loons who make all of Christianity look worse than it is.

Where is the real Christianity? It is there if you look. A woman was just shot dead in her truck in mexico by drug thugs who along with her husband has been a missionary for the last 30 years.

She is one example of many.

I don't think any of us likes hate filled cheer leaders of any brand or stripe.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #398 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

I don't support or agree with the fringe loons who make all of Christianity look worse than it is.

Where is the real Christianity? It is there if you look. A woman was just shot dead in her truck in mexico by drug thugs who along with her husband has been a missionary for the last 30 years.

She is one example of many.

I don't think any of us likes hate filled cheer leaders of any brand or stripe.

Fellows

Yes...don't get me wrong Fellows, I know there is a real Christianity and this is not it.

I was just making a point as often atheists and others with an agenda point to these examples - just as in Islam also - and try to say this is the real thing.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #399 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Bullshit, Noah. Robert Heinlein came up with an excellent definition years ago.

So then by your definition, love is when you are as concerned (or more) with another persons happiness than your own. Is that the definition you are the most comfortable with? Does happiness have to be in your thought process for it to be love?

Quote:
Now, where's that falsifiable definition of god?

Still don't have one. You want me to make something up so you can knock it down?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #400 of 444
Its quite amazing that in the year 2011, that although we know that the entire story of Christ is based on the passage of the sun through the zodiac, and that the word for God originated from the word for Vulva, and that for thousands of years that every civilization on Earth has worshipped the sun and the fertility religion, that people here still think that Jesus and their God is something unique and disconnected from all that has passed before it.

Amen

As for love - my take is that is is a well evolved chemically induced involuntary emotion that suspends rational decision making long enough to facilitate reproduction and to stick around long enough to nurture the offspring. Love is the manifestation of a selfish subconscious feeling that one gets when the presence of someone makes our life more enjoyable, and the thought of them not being present in our life, makes us feel life has lost much of its value.

PS. Latest assignment result 95%
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