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HP's webOS 2.0 to take on iPhone 4, iPad later this year

post #1 of 87
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After making comments to the contrary this summer, Hewlett-Packard is now positioning its acquired Palm webOS as a competitor to Android and iPhone 4, as well as Apple's iPad, relegating its Windows 7 Slate PC offerings to a business tablet niche.

HP is said to be working to revamp its consumer offerings to become more like Apple, selling premium hardware well integrated with its own new webOS software platform.

But at the same time, the company needs to maintain its close relationship with Microsoft as the world's largest Windows PC vendor. The company's efforts to reconcile those two goals has been erratically evolving throughout the year.

Wherefore art thou, webOS?

In January, HP appeared on stage with Microsoft chief executive Steve Ballmer to demonstrate an HP Slate PC running Windows 7, a move that was seen as a preemptive strike on Apple's planned tablet device. However, shortly after Apple's iPad shipped the HP Slate seemed to evaporate as a product.



In April, HP surprised observers by buying up the troubled remains of Palm for $1.2 billion, inciting rumors that HP would dump its Windows Mobile offerings and aggressively enter the smartphone business with new webOS mobiles and tablets.

However, in June HP's chief executive Mark Hurd told a technology conference audience that HP wasn't going to "spend billions of dollars trying to go into the smartphone business. That doesnt in any way make any sense. We didnt buy Palm to be in the smartphone business."

Hurd added, "and I tell people that, but it doesnt seem to resonate well. We bought it for the IP [intellectual property]. The webOS is one of the two ground-up pieces of software that is built as a web operating environment."

In July, HP was noted by John Paczkowski of the Wall Street Journal to be "doubling down" its webOS efforts and dropping its plans to deliver an Android tablet.

The company was also conspicuously absent from Microsoft's listings of new Windows Phone 7 licensees (but not Windows 7 Slates), suggesting that HP was backing away from the next generation of Windows Mobile phones to focus on its own webOS based offerings.

New HP smartphones to be webOS only

HP is now going on record with the media in announcing that it will exclusively use Palm's webOS to power its future smartphones, dumping Microsoft's Windows Phone 7 entirely. Dell has announced similar plans, although it is using Android rather than WP7 or building its own mobile platform.

At the same time, HP executive vice president Todd Bradley (the former chief of Palm prior to the development of webOS) told an audience at the Fortune Brainstorm conference that HP would also build a Windows 7 "Slate 500" but that it will not be sold to consumers and instead be targeted solely to enterprise customers, according to report by InformationWeek.

At the same conference, Jon Rubenstein, the former head of Palm and Apple's iPod product manager before that, said a new webOS 2.0 was on track for delivery later this year, and that HP would be aggressively developing hardware for it. Rubenstein did not offer any details on the features expected in the new release however.

The coming tablet and smartphone battle royal

Apple's current lock on the tablet market with the iPad will be tested by a flurry of new product entries this fall and winter, as a series of products appear using Google's Android or Chrome OS platforms, as Microsoft brings Windows 7 Slates and tablet products based on "Windows Embedded Compact 7" (previously known as Windows CE), and as HP rolls out its webOS tablet, expected to be named PalmPad.

At the same time, smartphone vendors will also be launching new phones using Android 3.0 and Windows Phone 7 around the time HP appears to be entering the market with webOS 2.0. Samsung is also promoting its own Bada smartphone platform.

The lack of interest demonstrated by various competing hardware makers in flocking to a single platform has confounded pundits who have predicted that smartphones would quickly settle into a PC model with one monoculture software platform. Rather than that happening, most vendors have deserted Microsoft and those that have joined Google's Android alliance have worked to maintain their own identity with "skin" layers indented to differentiate themselves.

Efforts by Samsung and HP to launch their own mobile software platforms reflect an interest in duplicating the success Apple has had in maintaining strict control of its entire product with the iOS-based iPhone, iPod touch and iPad.
post #2 of 87
good artists copy, great artists steal... too little too late. hope they enjoy the race to the bottom.
post #3 of 87
The good part of all of this: More competition for Apple (to keep them on their toes) and no more soup for Microsoft!

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post #4 of 87
The name PalmPad would seam like the wrong way to go. One, the device is too big to fit in the palm and two, they are HP, why do they need to retain the Palm brand?

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #5 of 87
Quote:
After making comments to the contrary

I mean like; how dare they. Seriously Daniel, step away from the cult for a moment and look at the whole tech industry with an ounce of objectivity.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #6 of 87
Nothing, and I do mean N O T H I N G, in the mobile OS arena comes remotely close to the simplicity, elegance, and multi-tasking capabilities of Palm's WebOS.

Hopefully version 2 will only improve upon these merits while bringing about a stronger app development community... Bring on the WebOS -Powered PalmPad!
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #7 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Nothing, and I do mean N O T H I N G, in the mobile OS arena comes remotely close to the simplicity, elegance, and multi-tasking capabilities of Palm's WebOS.

Hopefully version 2 will only improve upon these merits while bringing about a stronger app development community... Bring on the WebOS -Powered PalmPad!

You're right... which is why it did so well while owned by Palm right?? Oh wait...
post #8 of 87
I propose the tag line: This holiday season were dropping an H-Palm on the wireless industry"

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

The good part of all of this: More competition for Apple (to keep them on their toes) and no more soup for Microsoft!

I think MS will be a much bigger player than many suspect. They already are on 16% of the smartphone OSes as of a report earlier this year. I think it will WebOS that will have the hardest time getting a foorhold.
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #9 of 87
Quote:
Wherefore art thou, webOS?



Wherefore means why, not where.
post #10 of 87
How many more arms and legs can a Black Knight have?
post #11 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by LudwigVan View Post



Wherefore means why, not where.

No it means "for what reason" in the future sense.

The subheading is obviously not "looking for where is the the webOS," it's asking "why are you there?"

And Ireland, stop being a dick.
post #12 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by LudwigVan View Post



Wherefore means why, not where.

LOL

WebOS is an awesome OS, and I think that if HP can really dedicate time and resources they can be successful. If WinMo dies like I think it will with version 7 there will be a good 10-12% of the smartphone market for palm to grab. It won't be as big as android or iOS, but it might kill off Nokia's Symbian as well.

In the end I think we will have Blackberry OS, Android, iOS and WebOS. Since blackberry is business only, consumer segment can accomodate 3 OSs I think.
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--SHEFFmachine out
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post #13 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

You're right... which is why it did so well while owned by Palm right?? Oh wait...

The Pre didn't fail because of WebOS. It failed because of poor hardware and they're too small to face up against Google and Apple. Now they have the backing of HP. While HP may have been forced to be in a race to the bottom with Windows, WebOS will allow them to potentially become a boutique brand like Apple because they make the hardware and software. As of today I think WebOS is more aesthetically pleasing than iOS and also has a few features I'd like on the iOS.
post #14 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

The Pre didn't fail because of WebOS. It failed because of poor hardware and they're too small to face up against Google and Apple. Now they have the backing of HP. While HP may have been forced to be in a race to the bottom with Windows, WebOS will allow them to potentially become a boutique brand like Apple because they make the hardware and software. As of today I think WebOS is more aesthetically pleasing than iOS and also has a few features I'd like on the iOS.

How many iterations of good/bad hardware coupled with good/bad software can a company have before they get it?

Hmmm, the software sucked, but the hardware was good. Wait, let's work on the software and then do crappy hardware. Oh, hold on, how about...wait a minute, put out a press release about how we'll get it right in Rev. B.
post #15 of 87
This is welcomed competition. HP makes good products.
post #16 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

The name PalmPad would seam like the wrong way to go. One, the device is too big to fit in the palm and two, they are HP, why do they need to retain the Palm brand?

Probably atch pee pad doesn't sound so great
post #17 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

This is welcomed competition. HP makes good products.

I think HP used to be a great brand. It's just, that all >> ALL << equipment I bought the last couple of years ( namely scanners and printers) lastet not even a year before sarting to have nozhing but problems. and consumer support was beyond lousy. Still I hope for the sake of healthy rivalery, that with the accuisition of palm, they find the out of mediocracy.
post #18 of 87
Palm's ``IP' ' is just offensively overpriced. Experts found it out long ago the lion share of their patent library was simply useless. Infringement claims were easily beatable.
Not sure, why HP needs to bite this piece of ``IP' ', when everyone else avoids to.
However, WebOS seems changing hands for good ones...

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #19 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by LudwigVan View Post



Wherefore means why, not where.

Shakespeare much?

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #20 of 87
More proof that Apple is the leading innovator in computers, iPods, smartphones and tablets. Competition is welcome because it will make Apple even better! Good luck HP and bring it on.
post #21 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Nothing, and I do mean N O T H I N G, in the mobile OS arena comes remotely close to the simplicity, elegance, and multi-tasking capabilities of Palm's WebOS.

Hopefully version 2 will only improve upon these merits while bringing about a stronger app development community... Bring on the WebOS -Powered PalmPad!

Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

The Pre didn't fail because of WebOS. It failed because of poor hardware and they're too small to face up against Google and Apple. Now they have the backing of HP. While HP may have been forced to be in a race to the bottom with Windows, WebOS will allow them to potentially become a boutique brand like Apple because they make the hardware and software. As of today I think WebOS is more aesthetically pleasing than iOS and also has a few features I'd like on the iOS.


It failed because no one cared. Unless they come up with a compelling differentiator, no one will care 6 months from now either. If iPhone shows up on Verizon and/or T-mobile, very few people will care about any of the 50 different "current" Android handsets. Having said that, RIM will be dead in a year so there is probably room for WebOS.

If they are able to avoid the mistake of releasing to many products, they would have a shot at seriously rip into the mass consumer confusion that is Android. By the end of this next round of MS Exchange upgrades, RIM will be dead. Nearly all companies that plan on having employees a year from now are moving to support Exchange Activesync which is good for nearly everyone in the world except RIM. Blackberry's suck, they just managed to do a good job of getting themselves entrenched into most enterprise IT shops.

As devices like iPads and yet-to-be-named Android tablets gain in popularity, IT will have to support them. Fortunately for all of us, that means all of our phones will be supported to. I believe blackberries may be supported to, but they will no longer have a reason to be. People will gleefully toss the worthless hunks of plastic right into the river.


HP was one of the anchors on the race to the bottom in PCs, and only recently tried to turn it around. It will be interesting to see what HP shows up to the mobile game.
post #22 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Shakespeare much?

After Googling:

""Wherefore" means why (or what), not where. It was a reference to [his] name or person. In other words, "Why you Romeo?" Why did she love HIM - a member of the hostile clan."
post #23 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach View Post

I think HP used to be a great brand. It's just, that all >> ALL << equipment I bought the last couple of years ( namely scanners and printers) lastet not even a year before sarting to have nozhing but problems. and consumer support was beyond lousy. Still I hope for the sake of healthy rivalery, that with the accuisition of palm, they find the out of mediocracy.

My employer bought a professional grade 17" HP laptop for my work use. It is 1 year old and is having problems. Blue screen of death 2 to 3 times a week.

I would try someone else before purchasing an HP for my personal use. (if I was willing to purchase a non Mac os x computer)
post #24 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

You're right... which is why it did so well while owned by Palm right?? Oh wait...

if you were handicapped by sprints network, you'd be less of a smartphone too. the phone is actually really cool in comparison to even the current offerings today.
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post #25 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

The good part of all of this: More competition for Apple (to keep them on their toes) and no more soup for Microsoft!

I'm not sure anymore. I think Apple marches to the beat of its own drum. I mean seriously, the iPhone 5's best competition will likely be the iPhone 4.

Take the iPhone 4 for example, the perception is that you can't even make calls from the thing, yet it is still the best freaking phone on the market - hands down!


I think WebOS' failure had more to do with its lack of splash than its software or hardware. In my estimation, its far better than any of the Android phones I've seen. And if I didn't own an iPhone, I would definitely own the Pre. Kudos to HP - I look forward to their tablet.
post #26 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorotea View Post

My employer bought a professional grade 17" HP laptop for my work use. It is 1 year old and is having problems. Blue screen of death 2 to 3 times a week.

I would try someone else before purchasing an HP for my personal use. (if I was willing to purchase a non Mac os x computer)

Hmmm... Fortunately I never had to deal with HP laptops or PC's. Well exept my mother in law used to have an HP laptop at a time. After not quite a year it could only produce a beep sound accompagned by a enirely black screen after switching it on.
post #27 of 87
It will be interesting to see what hardware they bring to the table. I recently purchased a cheap HP desktop that came with a printer. Two months in the printer started jamming when there was no paper jam. Checked the rollers to see if they were dirty, and they were not. Called HP and ran through their TS steps. The printer still jammed. HP sent me a replacement (refurb). Two weeks into using the refurb it starts doing the same damn thing. Paper jam when there wasn't one. Checked the rollers and again they were not dirty. I called HP only to be told that I am stuck with a useless printer because I already had the first (non working) printer replaced with a second (non working) printer. They of course went though the same TS steps with me and the printer continued to jam.

If that is the type customer service they will have for their phone hardware they will have some serious problems. I feel bad for WebOS because it is a good mobile OS. It is just stuck with companies that have no clue how to make good hardware (Palm and HP). Now I am wondering how long this desktop will last until it starts to die a quick death...
post #28 of 87
I laugh when I see a random comment of someone predicting what's going to happen with any of these companies in the future. This market is evolving so fast that there is a new generation of hardware and software every six months, and each iteration changes the face of the whole industry.

Android is succeeding thanks to carrier choice - I seriously doubt it could have grown to the extent it has in the US if the iPhone were available on all four of the major carriers. The Palm Pre disappeared from mind-share due to lack of hardware, exclusive carrier agreements, and little developer support. That's not to say WebOS was a bad idea, or that it doesn't have a future.

I think WebOS has a beautiful future ahead with better handsets and a strong company like HP to back it up. Even if it only becomes a niche in the smartphone world, that operating system SCREAMS tablet. I can't see any of these android tablets coming anywhere near the elegance of the iPad, but a WebOS tablet is a whole other story.

Also, Windows Phone is due to come out shortly, which also has the potential to win over smartphone users with its unique offerings, perhaps even tablets in the future as well. If there is the one clear winner in any of these markets, we're years and years away from knowing the answer. I love competition!
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post #29 of 87
2 simple data points:

(1) HP is not capable of designing a decent user interface.

I was once, in an other life, a sad owner of an HP PC running Craposoft OS. The HP software add-ons supposed to help admin the box were just crippled beyond thinkable...

(2) Palm failed because of its inability to create a decent music, videos, books and apps market place.

Remember how Palm pathetically tried to hack its way into iTunes sync ?!
HP is not capable neither to do that itself... HP stopped inventing a long time ago...
post #30 of 87
Apple has already fired the warning shot. Everyone else is getting ready after the war has already started. That's the wrong way to attack and defend your tuff.

These guys are all in a rush to produce anything meaningful. iPhone came out in 2007. Apple was working on iPad as far back as 2004, and then stumbled on iPhone idea by chance, according Steve Jobs. And look at what they have done with it. So, expect the iPad to outperform and outsell the iPhone.
post #31 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach View Post

I think HP used to be a great brand. It's just, that all >> ALL << equipment I bought the last couple of years ( namely scanners and printers) lastet not even a year before sarting to have nozhing but problems. and consumer support was beyond lousy. Still I hope for the sake of healthy rivalery, that with the accuisition of palm, they find the out of mediocracy.

I have to agree. I'm not holding my breath on tis one as being anything great. I have doubts HP with the hardware part better than palm.
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What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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post #32 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Nothing, and I do mean N O T H I N G, in the mobile OS arena comes remotely close to the simplicity, elegance, and multi-tasking capabilities of Palm's WebOS.

Hopefully version 2 will only improve upon these merits while bringing about a stronger app development community... Bring on the WebOS -Powered PalmPad!

Yeah whatever! That's why they sold out to HP. All this clap trap BS coming from you Pre user makes me sick!
post #33 of 87
As a Pre owner, I really like the webOS part of the phone. The hardware would be good if it weren't for the constant quality issues... many people are on their 2nd (such as myself), 3rd, and even up to 6th phone... QC is obviously an issue.

I suspect that if the iPhone came to Sprint, many Pre owners would abandon their phones for iPhones, but some really believe in the platform.

I think HP can bring good mobile hardware to the table... just look at what HTC and Motorola and Apple are doing and duplicate that and put webOS 2.0 on it and see what the market does...

And Windows Phone 7 looks interesting but probably not going to see Zune software on the Mac, so that certainly leaves most of us out...
post #34 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

Yeah whatever! That's why they sold out to HP. All this clap trap BS coming from you Pre user makes me sick!

And what's wrong with being a Pre user?
post #35 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by webpoet73 View Post

As a Pre owner, I really like the webOS part of the phone. The hardware would be good if it weren't for the constant quality issues... many people are on their 2nd (such as myself), 3rd, and even up to 6th phone... QC is obviously an issue.

I suspect that if the iPhone came to Sprint, many Pre owners would abandon their phones for iPhones, but some really believe in the platform.

I think HP can bring good mobile hardware to the table... just look at what HTC and Motorola and Apple are doing and duplicate that and put webOS 2.0 on it and see what the market does...

And Windows Phone 7 looks interesting but probably not going to see Zune software on the Mac, so that certainly leaves most of us out...

Good post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by webpoet73 View Post

And what's wrong with being a Pre user?

Nothing.
post #36 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by applebjesus View Post

It will be interesting to see what hardware they bring to the table. I recently purchased a cheap HP desktop that came with a printer. Two months in the printer started jamming when there was no paper jam. Checked the rollers to see if they were dirty, and they were not. Called HP and ran through their TS steps. The printer still jammed. HP sent me a replacement (refurb). Two weeks into using the refurb it starts doing the same damn thing. Paper jam when there wasn't one. Checked the rollers and again they were not dirty. I called HP only to be told that I am stuck with a useless printer because I already had the first (non working) printer replaced with a second (non working) printer. They of course went though the same TS steps with me and the printer continued to jam.

If that is the type customer service they will have for their phone hardware they will have some serious problems. I feel bad for WebOS because it is a good mobile OS. It is just stuck with companies that have no clue how to make good hardware (Palm and HP). Now I am wondering how long this desktop will last until it starts to die a quick death...

I bought the HP 300s scientific calc(garbage) and I commented about how disgusting it was on HP's website. I even brought up how well my 20s is till holding up and said the 300s could never ever pawn my 20s(fantastic calc). You know what happened next? About a month later a fake comment appeared bestowing the virtues of the trashy a** 300s. Then the person said,'IT IS A GRAT REPLACEMENT FOR MY AGING 20S". OMFG!
HP can go to h****!
HP has nothing to bring to the table in this tablet game. Nothing!
There isn't a manager at HP that has the Ba*** to build a tablet with a dedicated OS from the ground up. And that webos isn't going to save the day. It is just a convenient tool for HP to use. They'll do up some tired little youth focused advertisement with losers like Beiber jumping up and down like an a**hole.
Sad thing is, we already see this coming. LOL!

I'm getting the 64gig ipad with wifi+3G in 3 months.
OH YEAH!!!!!!!!!
post #37 of 87
Should be a Apple-HP alliance to develop compatible apps for both platform; to counter the back-stabbing Google dark empire.
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post #38 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

I'm not sure anymore. I think Apple marches to the beat of its own drum. I mean seriously, the iPhone 5's best competition will likely be the iPhone 4.

Take the iPhone 4 for example, the perception is that you can't even make calls from the thing, yet it is still the best freaking phone on the market - hands down!


I think WebOS' failure had more to do with its lack of splash than its software or hardware. In my estimation, its far better than any of the Android phones I've seen. And if I didn't own an iPhone, I would definitely own the Pre. Kudos to HP - I look forward to their tablet.

I think that you (and a few others, here) are spot on about the potential of HP/Palm:

-- The hardware manufacturer and the OS manufacturer are one company (ala Apple)
-- They can tailor the two to each other and tightly integrate them (ala Apple)
-- They need not dissipate their treasure or resources over many products from many vendors (ala mfgrs using Android or MWMW (Mircosoft Windows Mobile Whatever))
-- They need not create a skin or artificial UI to differentiate themself from the also-rans.
-- They can build a few targeted products of quality rather cheap flavors du jour
-- They have the luxury of having the opportunity of being unique, high-quality, trend-setting and profitable (ala Apple)

They could/should be one of the long-term players.

.
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"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
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post #39 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I think that you (and a few others, here) are spot on about the potential of HP/Palm:

-- The hardware manufacturer and the OS manufacturer are one company (ala Apple)
-- They can tailor the two to each other and tightly integrate them (ala Apple)
-- They need not dissipate their treasure or resources over many products from many vendors (ala mfgrs using Android or MWMW (Mircosoft Windows Mobile Whatever))
-- They need not create a skin or artificial UI to differentiate themself from the also-rans.
-- They can build a few targeted products of quality rather cheap flavors du jour
-- They have the luxury of having the opportunity of being unique, high-quality, trend-setting and profitable (ala Apple)

They could/should be one of the long-term players.

.

Then what ?

You have a nice OS running on a nice hardware, but still lacking of a comprehensive, integrated platform to deliver content ! It is all about content !! Namely books, applications, games, music, movies...

Apple has a successful platform to deliver that: iTunes.
What is HP/Palm integrated alternative ?
post #40 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

The good part of all of this: More competition for Apple (to keep them on their toes) and no more soup for Microsoft!

You still don't get it, do you ...... Apple competes with itself (by always trying to outdo themselves) more than outside competition. Was Apple "motivated" by the existing competition when they developed iPod? ... No! Everybody and their dog thought they were crazy to introduce a music device costing 100s of dollars.

Was Apple "motivated" by the competition when they developed iPhone? ...No! Again, the prevailing "wisdom" of the day said they were crazy to compete with the existing phone makers .... "they don't understand the phone market" they said.

This nonsense that you continue to post about "keeping them on their toes" is useless drivel. Apple motivates themselves ..... always have ... always will. Steve has said time and time again (but you still can't/won't hear him) ... Apple desires to make the best products they can, products that they would like to own themselves ... end of story. Time for you to put your thinking cap on .... please.
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