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Apple adds Motorola Droid X to iPhone 4 death grip page - Page 4

post #121 of 271
These companies have brought it on themselves by trying to make out it was an Apple only problem. They lied and now they are getting their karma.
post #122 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by phalanx View Post

Please enlighten us where on any other phone you can put one finger and lose 5 bars? "Industry wide phenomena" my eye. Apple diluted this problem by talking about a "Death Grip". No one complained about a "Death Grip". They complained about the fact that if any part of their hand touched one spot on the side of the phone, it dropped calls. Grow up Apple, we are not in the 1st grade anymore, admit you screwed up and fix it, and move on. Don't point at your other classmates. MAN UP!!!! I guess the "great innovators" "missed a spot".

So you say there is a problem. And over 3 and 1/2 million people say it isn't a problem. If you have any dignity, you would admit you are the one in the wrong. I'll take the millions of people who own the iphone 4 and the millions who are on the waiting list for it to your feeble attempt to make a mountain out of a molehill.
post #123 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Bad press may be nothing new for Apple but its new for them being on top. Based on market cap they are now considered the biggest tech company in the world. Apple has lost the advantage of being the underdog to big bad Microsoft and now the media is going to be looking to knock them off the mountain every chance they get. That is just simply how the game works.

Also while Apple fanboys may be loyal when there is even a rumor of a problem they bitch more then your average school girl.

Look who is talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

I would agree there isnt a company out there wouldn't mind having the "problems" Apple is having...lol.

Its just funny to me that once you get on top the media is right there to try and knock you off the mountain.

It will all come down to if the consume buys into the media hype or not. I am not sure if it was a good idea for Apple to offer something for free only because it makes them look even more guilty as if there is a wide spread problem and they are trying to cover it up.

If its truly only impacting less then .5% of iPhone users then I wouldn't have given shit away.

It is called proactive management of the issue, since media has blow this out of all proportion and SJ can sense their going for blood.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

People don't generally go ape shit over .55%. Hell, the accidental death rate in your average hospital is higher than that.

In my Pharmacy class, you're allowed a medication error rate of up to 10%. I guess administering the wrong meds to 10 out of 100 people is a number they can live with.

You are proud of that error rate for medication error, thanks for letting us know that acceptable to give wrong medication to people and their is acceptable limit. Maybe you should try to not make and error and improve that margin, just a thought.
post #124 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

With hindsight I wish Steve had just laid it on the table:

"We've re-thought the whole antenna thing, and putting it on the outside has both benefits and deficits. We believe the former outweigh the latter. Some may notice an interesting phenomenon that when you bridge the gap between the two antennas with your finder or hand that there may be a small drop in bar indication. In a normal signal strength area this should not have any detrimental effect. If you are in a low signal strength area, it might. But again, this design allows for greater signal strength in most conditions most of the time. On the plus side the outside antenna on the iPhone 4 yields a clear improvement in overall performance over its predecessor, and we believe it is the best smartphone on the market."

This kind of unambiguous statement would have done much to "attenuate" criticism. Buyers would know up front what the characteristics of this model are, and could judge for themselves whether their real world experience is better or worse than before. I can understand why he didn't make this statement at the time the phone was released. Probably assumed people would figure this out for themselves. Also, it just goes against all normal business practice to point out any potentially negative characteristic of a newly released product. But again, in hindsight, it would have been better. Some people would have still not been pleased, but I think much of the reaction was fueled by the belief that Apple was trying to slip something past buyers.

For the record, I can make the one or two bars drop by bridging the gap, but it doesn't seem to cause me any actual performance problems that I am aware of. Took my case off to experiment.

If only more in here followed your precedent of logic and reason... If Only.
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post #125 of 271
"The rest of the mobile industry, and in particular those companies profiled in the death grip hall of shame Apple published, have shot back with defensive statements..."

The fools!! They don't realize that the more they protest the more they give credence to Apple's position! "NO! - WE don't have attenuation problems." when users can see them on youtube - every time a company says that the listeners think "Oh - they have it too." All they do is reinforce Apple's position.

There are, of course, the iHaters who will believe anything anti-Apple - but who cares?
post #126 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post

You are proud of that error rate for medication error, thanks for letting us know that acceptable to give wrong medication to people and their is acceptable limit. Maybe you should try to not make and error and improve that margin, just a thought.

Nice interpretation... Can't say I'm surprised, though.
post #127 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

Actually, the iPhone 4 is the only phone in existence which loses 5 bars when a single finger touches the insulator between the two external antennae, without even holding the phone.

The more Apple is trying to divert attention away from its idiotic design flaw, the more hilarious it's getting.

I lose no signal when I touch that spot with a single finger. Five bars. I use the iPhone 4 without a bumper or case. It works perfectly. No dropped calls. AT&T's towers usually gives me between 3-5 bars, indoors, outdoors, and on the highway. I guess something is wrong with my phone: it doesn't fit your prejudices.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #128 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Its just funny to me that once you get on top the media is right there to try and knock you off the mountain.

paxman is right, this is expected from the company who is on top, is changing the "game" and, by effect, everyone watches. They can't drop a pin without someone hearing it (wait, should that be drop a call? hehe).

Even if they have half the issues per 100 next year if they sell twice as many (or more) it could seem more problematic than it really is. That's before you get the Internet echo effect involved.

Quote:
If its truly only impacting less then .5% of iPhone users then I wouldn't have given shit away.

The press conference wasn't about addressing or fixing the antenna issue, it was about addressing and fixing their public issue. Nothing more, nothing less.
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post #129 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Time will only tell if the attention plays into their hands. This is has been fairly rough attention even for apple because of the volume of iPhones that were sold. What will happen is if there really is a problem then consumers will make more noise. If there isn't then consumers will simply be happy if their iPhone works just fine.

My guess is that there isn't a problem. Apple is all over this. If there is a problem they are fixing it now and a revised model will be out sooner rather than later. But I just don't think that is the case. There is no way Apple would try to pull a fast one, or brush this under the carpet. If a recall was required they would have done it, costs be damned.
Quote:
Here in the Atlanta area I have about 10 friends that use an iPhone 4 and all of them say it drops alot of calls. That isn't a large sample by any means and I don't knwo what "alot" is but they aren't thrilled with the dropped calls situation which could very well be ATT and not the hardware.

I am not doubting they have issues and I am not saying the IPhone4's arial is without issues, but if your friends are using bumpers /covers and are still experiencing dropped calls I would imagine this to be a carrier problem.
Quote:
I use an Evo and I have my own issues with the phone. Wifi range sucks and even in full 4G I woudl say the speeds could be better for the extra 10.00 a month. Also unlike my Apple products with Android you have to hope and pray they push the updates to your phone. I keep hearing about 2.2 but until I get that OTA I won't hold my breath.

I think this is something people are forgetting these days - virtually all tech devices have issues and the much (mis) quoted SJ comment - So don't hold it that way - is a truism most of us live with and accept in one way or another.
post #130 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post

If I were in the market for a cell phone and saw that all of the other company's CEOs were lying about their phones reception problems then I definitely wouldn't buy their products. They deny the problem yet the videos by their own customers prove them wrong. I could understand their situations if they admitted their phones had problems when the antennas were covered. When they deny the problems exist when within their own literature they admit it, then that is outright lying.

I do my best to avoid dealing with liars. If they lie once then they are likely to be lying about other things.

My 2008 Mac Book battery has expanded within the computer and the Apple online tech guy said it was a normal occurrence for safety reasons. That was a lie. The battery only had 19 cycles on it since it is mostly used as a desktop computer. If Apple doesn't acknowledge this as a defective unit after only 19 months I'll stop dealing with Apple too. I didn't buy Applecare. I dual booted Linux on an HP computer in part because of this situation. I'm preparing to give up on Apple if they don't act responsibly and replace this defective battery.

The battery expanding should be covered if you have the extended AppleCare warranty which covers you for an additional 2 years giving a total coverage of 3 years. If you search online it's weird how some tech support says it is normal but there are many cases in the US and internationally where they swap out the battery for you. My dad's MacBook has the same issue but we should be able to get a replacement as consistent with the online forums. Will report back, possibly, if they don't.

The only issue is that you don't have the extended AppleCare so your hardware defects are not covered, unfortunately. I sympathize with your situation, but I have always gotten AppleCare these past several years and the coverage has been quite good. Frustrating at times because it takes a while for support and service to iron out certain issues but if you are persistent (not rude) so far they have been reasonable.
post #131 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by voodooru View Post

this antenna issue seems to be put to rest at this point.

now the real drama coming next is the glass.


dropping an iPhone 2G, 3G and 3GS has never been a cause for concern. now with the iPhone 4 it will be a major headache going forward.

drop your phone and crack or shatter it and bam! you're out of $199 for a replacement. no sympathy, you broke it you pay!

interesting months are ahead!



Interestingly, haven't seen a huge bunch of posts online about this. Do you have a link? I'm curious. I wonder if the antenna stuff has buried it but by now if there has been a lot of shattering glass it should be all over the Internetz.
post #132 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

That was my point. Did SJ make the public issue better or worse? While many will just be happy to get a free bumper even more so if they don't have a problem in some ways I felt like he got away with admitting there is a problem by giving away a bumper and on top of it got off cheap without having to fix the root cause of the problem which could very well be a design flaw.

Without a doubt he made the public issue better. The issue is only alive in the forums now, the general media has moved on.
Quote:
I am not saying there is a design flaw, I just find the entire situation interesting because I have never seen Apple put in this kind of position and have to play defense like this.

For those that say Apple has always taken a beating that is BS, until now they haven' taken 10% of what Microsoft has had to put up with. I wonder how Jobs will continue to respond with being the big boy on the block. He doesn't strike me as the type that is going to take criticism very well.

Yeah, it is interesting. Apple has been employing pr specialists for some time and even though SJ and Apple will always do as they see fit it is very different dealing with dedicated Apple heads and millions and millions of average users world wide. In my mind one of Apple's strengths is that they manage to appear small and responsive, and personal, whereas MS is definitely a 'corporation'. I think Apple will adapt and do fine. SJ may not take criticism so well but I believe he really cares about his company and products and will go a very long way to do the right thing. I definitely think Apple listen to the chattering blogosphere but know to trust their own judgement. And thank god for that
post #133 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

The battery expanding should be covered if you have the extended AppleCare warranty which covers you for an additional 2 years giving a total coverage of 3 years. If you search online it's weird how some tech support says it is normal but there are many cases in the US and internationally where they swap out the battery for you. My dad's MacBook has the same issue but we should be able to get a replacement as consistent with the online forums. Will report back, possibly, if they don't.

The only issue is that you don't have the extended AppleCare so your hardware defects are not covered, unfortunately. I sympathize with your situation, but I have always gotten AppleCare these past several years and the coverage has been quite good. Frustrating at times because it takes a while for support and service to iron out certain issues but if you are persistent (not rude) so far they have been reasonable.

It's not unlike driving a vehicle without a warranty in that one effectively assumes all responsibility after standard coverage has expired.

It's a choice the buyer makes, as extended warrantees are always offered at the time of purchase, and the manufacturer is free and clear if you opt out of said service.
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post #134 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

Without a doubt he made the public issue better. The issue is only alive in the forums now, the general media has moved on.

Then what's the point of continuing to post videos of their competition in a "death grip" losing bars (but not dropping the call, if you notice)? Do they plan on post a new "death grip" video for each new phone the competition releases?
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post #135 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

My guess is that there isn't a problem. Apple is all over this. If there is a problem they are fixing it now and a revised model will be out sooner rather than later. But I just don't think that is the case. There is no way Apple would try to pull a fast one, or brush this under the carpet. If a recall was required they would have done it, costs be damned.

I am not doubting they have issues and I am not saying the IPhone4's arial is without issues, but if your friends are using bumpers /covers and are still experiencing dropped calls I would imagine this to be a carrier problem.

I think this is something people are forgetting these days - virtually all tech devices have issues and the much (mis) quoted SJ comment - So don't hold it that way - is a truism most of us live with and accept in one way or another.

No matter what they did or didn’t do there would be a group of unsatisfied users and users that would use it as their pulpit as proof that Apple is evil.

What Apple did seems like the best move in terms of longterm profits, which is what any well managed company tries to do.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

The battery expanding should be covered if you have the extended AppleCare warranty which covers you for an additional 2 years giving a total coverage of 3 years. If you search online it's weird how some tech support says it is normal but there are many cases in the US and internationally where they swap out the battery for you. My dad's MacBook has the same issue but we should be able to get a replacement as consistent with the online forums. Will report back, possibly, if they don't.

The only issue is that you don't have the extended AppleCare so your hardware defects are not covered, unfortunately. I sympathize with your situation, but I have always gotten AppleCare these past several years and the coverage has been quite good. Frustrating at times because it takes a while for support and service to iron out certain issues but if you are persistent (not rude) so far they have been reasonable.

At least in the US, this sort of issue is typically dealt with very fast and without question. The liability is too high, at least here in the States.


Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

Yeah, it is interesting. Apple has been employing pr specialists for some time and even though SJ and Apple will always do as they see fit it is very different dealing with dedicated Apple heads and millions and millions of average users world wide. In my mind one of Apple's strengths is that they manage to appear small and responsive, and personal, whereas MS is definitely a 'corporation'. I think Apple will adapt and do fine. SJ may not take criticism so well but I believe he really cares about his company and products and will go a very long way to do the right thing. I definitely think Apple listen to the chattering blogosphere but know to trust their own judgement. And thank god for that

This “boutique”-like style they have will continue to backfire more and more. Besides having delays from not getting the number of components they need to meet their growing demand of their limited product line there is still talk every year of “What happened to Apple? They used to be this blah blah blah company”, but they never were that company. They were certainly struggling for awhile, but they were never what people seem to think they were. They are just more successful at being themselves than they used to be.
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post #136 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

Without a doubt he made the public issue better. The issue is only alive in the forums now, the general media has moved on.

I wouldn't be so quick to make such judgements...

Only yesterday (24 July 2010), the 'antenna issue' was mentioned during both NBC and CBS' nightly news, as well as several times during the week (including yesterday) on MSNBC.

Additionally: While shopping at both my local (Las Vegas) Best Buy and Fry's Electronics, I witnessed (first hand) sales associates discussing the iPhone4 'antenna issue' with prospective customers, effectively steering them away from purchasing the handset.

Maybe your experience is different, but I know exactly what I heard/saw, and clearly many have not 'moved on' from this situation, nor do I believe they will anytime soon, and Apple 'playing the blame game' appears to only exacerbate an already embarrassing situation.

We'll See...
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post #137 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

While shopping at both my local (Las Vegas) Best Buy and Fry's Electronics, I witnessed (first hand) sales associates discussing the iPhone4 'antenna issue' with prospective customers, effectively steering them away from purchasing the handset.

Employees from major retailers steering customers away from Apple products?¡ I cant say that Im shocked as this has been going on well before Jobs came back to the helm.
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post #138 of 271
Every video of yet another phone losing signal from being held that Apple posts makes the press look stupider and stupider for allowing themselves to be whipped into a frenzy by a few tech blogs, Apple haters and youtube videos. And there really isn't any "bad press" anymore outside of those tech blogs. Frankly, I think the press is more than ready to move on and pretend like they never made fools of themselves over this non-issue.

Apple will sell every last iPhone 4 they can manufacture, and there will be no impact on their reputation beyond the small circle of rabid fanatics, amply represented in this thread, who would like to turn every molehill into a mountain, and who become more irrational, more dissociated from reality, and more dishonest in their criticism as Apple becomes more successful. But, those people don't matter: they never have, and they never will.
post #139 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Every video of yet another phone losing signal from being held that Apple posts makes the press look stupider and stupider for allowing themselves to be whipped into a frenzy by a few tech blogs, Apple haters and youtube videos. And there really isn't any "bad press" anymore outside of those tech blogs. Frankly, I think the press is more than ready to move on and pretend like they never made fools of themselves over this non-issue.

Apple will sell every last iPhone 4 they can manufacture, and there will be no impact on their reputation beyond the small circle of rabid fanatics, amply represented in this thread, who would like to turn every molehill into a mountain, and who become more irrational, more dissociated from reality, and more dishonest in their criticism as Apple becomes more successful. But, those people don't matter: they never have, and they never will.

I agree and disagree. Yes, they are ready to move on but they will jump at the chance for any info that will paint Apple in a bad light. Media today is based on page hits and that is a first-come-first-serve business. The past and future dont matter, only the now, so I dont think a single media outlet is even concerned about how they looked a couple weeks ago on this issue.

So next year I expect to see the same basic design with an external antenna. The benefits are too great. However, if Apple does move back to antenna that isnt the frame of the device I think we can say there was an design flaw with the concept. My question is, will we see other smartphone vendors following Apples lead to increase usability while reducing internal space constraints?


PS: Taking predictions on the OMG! Apple really screwed up this time issue for next years iPhone.
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post #140 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Every video of yet another phone losing signal from being held that Apple posts makes the press look stupider and stupider for allowing themselves to be whipped into a frenzy by a few tech blogs, Apple haters and youtube videos. And there really isn't any "bad press" anymore outside of those tech blogs. Frankly, I think the press is more than ready to move on and pretend like they never made fools of themselves over this non-issue.

Apple will sell every last iPhone 4 they can manufacture, and there will be no impact on their reputation beyond the small circle of rabid fanatics, amply represented in this thread, who would like to turn every molehill into a mountain, and who become more irrational, more dissociated from reality, and more dishonest in their criticism as Apple becomes more successful. But, those people don't matter: they never have, and they never will.

There sure are an awful lot of 'declarations' in your post... especially given that none of us actually know where all of this will ultimately lead.

As it currently stands though, Apple is clearly on the defensive and even looking a bit petty by pointing the finger at everyone else when all that really matters is that they fix the obvious issue with their own wares, after all they did designate themselves the creators of 'magical' devices that we never knew we needed, so surely they can solve this little 'antenna issue' for the betterment of the entire industry.

... and YES, there clearly IS an issue of some sort or Apple would never have taken any action whatsoever.
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post #141 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Hot on the heels of adding Nokia's N97 to its video showcase of phones that show signal attenuation when held, Apple has added Verizon's new flagship, the Motorola Droid X.

As with the other phones appearing on the company's Smartphone Antenna Performance page, including RIM's BlackBerry Bold 9700, HTC's Android Droid Eris, Samsung's Windows Mobile Omnia II, Nokia's N97 and Apple's own iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4, the new Droid X is shown dramatically dropping from several bars to zero when held with a normal grip.

Apple's videos present evidence for its claim that the Antennagate campaign being waged against iPhone 4 was overblown and exaggerated. Steve Jobs described iPhone 4's antenna issues as "a challenge for the entire industry," in describing the real engineering challenges related to delivering increasingly better reception, smaller device sizes, and improved battery performance.

The rest of the mobile industry, and in particular those companies profiled in the death grip hall of shame Apple published, have shot back with defensive statements that suggested their longer experience in building phones exempted them from any engineering issues related to antenna design.

RIM and Nokia insist Apple is alone in RF issues

BlackBerry maker RIM issued a statement from its two chief executives Mike Lazaridis and Jim Balsillie which didn't deny that RIM's phones had any problems, but did take umbrage at what they called an "attempt to draw RIM into Apple's self-made debacle."

Nokia similarly issued a corporate statement that didn't name Apple, but said "as you would expect from a company focused on people, we prioritize antenna performance over physical design if they are ever in conflict," a not so subtle suggestion that iPhone 4 sacrificed functionality just to look cool.

Prior to Apple's official response, Nokia had egged on criticism of iPhone 4 with a corporate blog posting that claimed Nokia phones could be held in any fashion without any negative impact on performance.

At the same time, Nokia's owners' manuals for its phones include warnings not to hold the phone in a way that touches the antenna when in use, pointing out that this can attenuate the signal and cause the device to work harder, shortening its battery life.

Jobs specifically noted in Apple's press conference that you can go on the web and look at pictures of Nokia phones that ship with stickers on the back that say dont touch here." After Nokia's corporate response repeated the idea that as "the pioneer in internal antennas" its products simply couldn't experience any antenna issues, Apple added Nokia's N97 to the videos of phones that can suffer from a dramatic drop in signal bars when held normally.



HTC and Samsung deny problems exist

Two other vendors included in Apple's original video comparisons were also quick to issue press releases that suggested they've never heard of signal attenuation issues from their customers. HTC, the company the built the vast majority of Windows Mobile phones and now a primary vendor of Android models, issued remarks similar to RIM, which chided Apple for saying every vendor struggles with antenna design issues.

"The reception problems are certainly not common among smartphones," HTC's chief financial officer Hui-Meng Cheng said. "They apparently didn't give operators enough time to test the phone." However, like Nokia, HTC warns customers not to touch the antenna while in use as it may "impair call quality and cause your device to operate at a higher power level than needed."

Samsung issued a milder response, simply saying it "hasn't received significant customer feedbacks on any signal reduction issue for the Omnia II." The company likely lacks the interest in fomenting crisis for Apple in the way RIM, Nokia and HTC have sought to do because it is a major manufacturer of components for Apple, and makes billions of dollars from iPhone sales.



Motorola, Verizon targeted with Droid X video

Apple's latest video targets the newest Android phone to be compared against the iPhone, the Droid X, showing that it too can indicate a rapid signal loss when held normally. Its inclusion illustrates Apple's contention that the "death grip" videos that Gizmodo presented as a unique new problem for iPhone 4 are easy to replicate across a wide variety of models from all the major manufacturers, on phones running different operating systems, and using different network technologies.

Motorola's co-chief executive Sanjay Jha had previously stated that "consumers don't like being told how to hold the phone" and that "it is disingenuous to suggest that all phones perform equally," noting that his company has avoided placing the antenna on the outside of the phone out of fear that could cause reception problems.

Apple's addition of Motorola's latest Droid X to its videos provide evidence that all phones do suffer from some level of attenuation when held, and that this can be dramatically portrayed with signal meter drops, even when the antenna is internal.

Apple was criticized by Consumer Reports over the issue, and the magazine withheld its "recommendation" listing for iPhone 4 despite giving it top marks among smartphones. The site has given is "recommended" seal to other phones with the same issues.

Hey Leo Leporte is this true sir? On Mac break weekly Leo shows how he palms his phone too "looks like hes trying to hide it" or maybe he's under cover or something ...hummmm well if the X drops down like this too.... then? what does it mean ? hummmmmm.....
post #142 of 271
Whether we like it or not, our perspective -- a result of our surrounding and experiences over time -- affects what we accept to be true or not. The danger comes when we let our perception be the litmus test of what we accept as truth with the recent issues we encounter. This is exacerbated by our inability to have all the time in the world to examine all the evidences presented to us. And usually we do not even have a chance to be privy to all the evidences.

Add to this the internet and the its ability to enable information -- whether true or not -- to be repeated, and quoted and judged by bloggers as true or not, depending on ones perspective. The mainstream media -- radio, newspapers, television -- with their own agenda and usually a "general perspective" that would further propagate and interpret (judge) the information that essentially has become viral at the time.

What happens? Perception becomes reality. Individually, whether we consider the information true or not, depends so much on our "general perception".

One recent example is the snippet of a presentation by an African-American who worked with the USDA. It was edited to a few minutes of snippet that if it was the entire presentation would really be damning. It would portray an "African-American woman who used her position not willing to help a white American whose farm was in trouble" -- a classic case of discrimination except it was done by an African-American in power.

Very high drama indeed. It became viral in the internet (so others say), FOX News commentators in a number of talk shows condemned the USDA official, it was broadcast by mainstream media, the head of USDA immediately asked for the woman's resignation, the NAACP condemned the action of the woman, the White Press Director(?) did the same, etc., etc.

As it turned out, the edited video came from a very well known conservative with his own agenda. When the hoax was uncovered, there was no apology. Instead, the rationale given was that the liberals attacked the Tea Party of discrimination (ergo, so it was just OK to do the same to them via this edited video?)

How did the tide change? Fortunately, the woman involved did not just keep quiet. And, fortunately, while most of mainstream media just simply repeated the story without much fact checking -- thus they became instruments of propagation of something that was not true -- there were enough in the people and the media who did further checking. One of them was the NAACP which then retracted its knee-jerk condemnation, after more careful investigation of the "intent of the very much longer presentation".

The reality? The woman actually was relating how her initial perception and subsequent action changed over time. The lesson she was trying to impart was that she was not immune to being discriminatory. The farmer and his family also went on the air to support the USDA woman who actually saved their family farm.

There were the obligatory mea culpas from all sides who made the accusations (see above). Even President Obama had to apologize. However, while the main stream media reported the turn of events -- there was no soul searching from the media why these things keep on happening?

What was most surprising was that in spite of the uncovering of the hoax, there were still very prominent media personalities (in talk shows) who put the blame not on the person who started it, but on others -- it became a simple battle between the tactics of the left and the right.

Back to the Antennagate

If you try to see the parallel with the above story, you may find your own action (usually guided by the perspective you developed over the years) to affect your reaction.
  1. I am surprised sometimes why those who do not really like Apple very much (based from a perusal of their postings) spend so much time in a site that was meant for Apple users. Do they really expect to convert what they derisively call "fanbois"?
  2. Then there is the opposite. Those who seem to be of the opinion that Apple can do no wrong.
  3. Then, there are those in between the two extremes.

Then, each would attempt to use the same information to their advantage, Or, use anectdotal evidence to prove their point. [But how can the latter be proved or disproved?]


CGC


Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

There is clearly a problem and that problem is perception is reality. If there was really no problem Apple wouldn't have held a press conference and wouldn't have given away free bumpers to EVERY iPhone 4 user if they have a problem or not.

I have no clue if there is a widespread problem and neither do you so acting like you do just makes you look stupid. Steve Jobs doesn't hold a press conference for no reason and even more so give away stuff for free.
post #143 of 271
As noted above, depending on our perspective we react to the "same information" presented to us quite differently.

Let's take the case of the 0.55% reporting dropped calls and 1.6% return rate of iPhone 4. If correct, that means 99.45% and 98.4% not reporting dropped calls or or not returning their iPhone 4, respectively.

If we are to analyze the data more objectively, the first order would be to ascertain their validity and accuracy. The data of course was coming from Apple (if I am not mistaken via AT&T or some other sources).

Is there really reason for Apple to place the very best face, e.g., the "best data" to bolster its position? I can almost bet my own last cent that it would do so, if it can cite a source.

For those who are passionate about and believe the "antennagate" therefore the most likely reaction is to cast doubt on the data. In proper discourse or formal debate, you are not likely to prove your case by simply casting doubt or making "pot shots" at presented data. You must provide a counter information that may in turn be verified. Otherwise, it is pure speculation.

Now, let us take the scenario where the provided information above are indeed accurate. If they are accurate and verifiable, from a statistical point of view, the rate of dropped calls would be rather low to be within the margin of error. More significant, if there are 98.4% users who are not returning their iPhone 4 -- for whatever reason -- in the real world, the antennagate is indeed a non-issue to overwhelming numbers of iPhone 4 owners.

However wronged the 1.6% former iPhone 4 owners are, they should not expect the 98.4% who retained their iPhone 4 to react the same way like those who returned their phones.

CGC
post #144 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDog View Post

Actually the NHTSA just released a report fingering operator error as the cause of "unintended acceleration" in the Toyotas. Curious thing, operator error.


Toy has and had and did ignore 7 brake problems.

One major problem was the car mat would bunch up and jam the brake causing
un-intended braking while hitting the gas ..
<<< Well we all have had objects obstructing our foot area down there and we all know to free the area quick. >>

A bad carpet mat could have been thrown away or made smaller or whatever ...
4 yrs later the carpet was still in the cars
17 killion cars affected and finally a single letter went out informing the public of thIs problem.
>>A lot of people saw ther mat as being to close to the brake and adjusted or got a new floor mat .

Of the final 6 brake problems 2 of the brake issues were electrical in nature and quite serious Toyota hid the problem and tried to fix the brake issues UNDER THE RADAR SO TO SPEAK. 7 yrs later the brake issue is still not solved .

The power of having plants in 3 southern states

Comparing Toyota's silly brake problem to APPLES DEATH GRIP THAT CAUSED the complete shutdown of nine thousand Rubber band factories world wide ///

i will not sleep until until we can find the DR DOOM and the evil signal loss evil doer's


9

i will never post here again ..
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post #145 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgc0202 View Post

Whether we like it or not, our perspective -- a result of our surrounding and experiences over time -- affects what we accept to be true or not. The danger comes when we let our perception be the litmus test of what we accept as truth with the recent issues we encounter. This is exacerbated by our inability to have all the time in the world to examine all the evidences presented to us. And usually we do not even have a chance to be privy to all the evidences.

Add to this the internet and the its ability to enable information -- whether true or not -- to be repeated, and quoted and judged by bloggers as true or not, depending on ones perspective. The mainstream media -- radio, newspapers, television -- with their own agenda and usually a "general perspective" that would further propagate and interpret (judge) the information that essentially has become viral at the time.

What happens? Perception becomes reality. Individually, whether we consider the information true or not, depends so much on our "general perception".

One recent example is the snippet of a presentation by an African-American who worked with the USDA. It was edited to a few minutes of snippet that if it was the entire presentation would really be damning. It would portray an "African-American woman who used her position not willing to help a white American whose farm was in trouble" -- a classic case of discrimination except it was done by an African-American in power.

Very high drama indeed. It became viral in the internet (so others say), FOX News commentators in a number of talk shows condemned the USDA official, it was broadcast by mainstream media, the head of USDA immediately asked for the woman's resignation, the NAACP condemned the action of the woman, the White Press Director(?) did the same, etc., etc.

As it turned out, the edited video came from a very well known conservative with his own agenda. When the hoax was uncovered, there was no apology. Instead, the rationale given was that the liberals attacked the Tea Party of discrimination (ergo, so it was just OK to do the same to them via this edited video?)

How did the tide change? Fortunately, the woman involved did not just keep quiet. And, fortunately, while most of mainstream media just simply repeated the story without much fact checking -- thus they became instruments of propagation of something that was not true -- there were enough in the people and the media who did further checking. One of them was the NAACP which then retracted its knee-jerk condemnation, after more careful investigation of the "intent of the very much longer presentation".

The reality? The woman actually was relating how her initial perception and subsequent action changed over time. The lesson she was trying to impart was that she was not immune to being discriminatory. The farmer and his family also went on the air to support the USDA woman who actually saved their family farm.

There were the obligatory mea culpas from all sides who made the accusations (see above). Even President Obama had to apologize. However, while the main stream media reported the turn of events -- there was no soul searching from the media why these things keep on happening?

What was most surprising was that in spite of the uncovering of the hoax, there were still very prominent media personalities (in talk shows) who put the blame not on the person who started it, but on others -- it became a simple battle between the tactics of the left and the right.

Back to the Antennagate

If you try to see the parallel with the above story, you may find your own action (usually guided by the perspective you developed over the years) to affect your reaction.
  1. I am surprised sometimes why those who do not really like Apple very much (based from a perusal of their postings) spend so much time in a site that was meant for Apple users. Do they really expect to convert what they derisively call "fanbois"?
  2. Then there is the opposite. Those who seem to be of the opinion that Apple can do no wrong.
  3. Then, there are those in between the two extremes.

Then, each would attempt to use the same information to their advantage, Or, use anectdotal evidence to prove their point. [But how can the latter be proved or disproved?]


CGC

please re-write this post with an analogy that matches the very low on the totem pole position OF Apple extremely minor dropped call issue..

The USDA situation was rare in that almost no one checked the facts and i guess having a black or white person hurting a white or black person makes for good news stories but to me its is very yellow reporting and very sad .

thanks

bruce


9
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post #146 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

These companies have brought it on themselves by trying to make out it was an Apple only problem. They lied and now they are getting their karma.

No. Even my 3g will drop some bars if I do a death grip but by holding the phone normally, your ring finger has a pretty good chance of touching the two places on the 4 iPhone. Something that does not happen with competition or even the 3G for that matter so Apple is spreading the fud this time around and the free cases make it more obvious.
post #147 of 271
.....
post #148 of 271
Just receive my iPhone4 today, and no problem with 1 finger touch or grip of death. Of course I will not refuse free bumper and ordered mine.
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post #149 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

Its not so strange that once you are on top the media wants to bring you down. At least not in Apple's case. Its more than on top, right now - its almost too good to be true. Apple is beating all the odds what with refusing to go cheap, insisting on high level design, re-defining established business models. Basically Apple is challenging the status quo in a lot of areas and being hugely successful. After a while it makes for a pretty dull story. Every media outlet needs a story on Apple and it gets boring if everything is just dandy. There's no drama.
The people who hate Apple for their 'control freak'ery' are mainly geeks and are insignificant now that Apple is mainstream. All the journalists who needs something to write about - bad iPhone 4!, and all the up-in-arms-techno-geeks - bad iphone 4!, and all the other Apple haters - SJ is the devil, are also insignificant now that Apple is mainstream - witnessed by the continued success of the iPhone 4 in spite of the endless iterations of the same boring arguments about the the bad arial, Apple's lies, and SJ's arrogance. People honestly don't give a shit because for the vast majority it is a non issue. I suspect all the attention the iPhone 4 has gotten is playing directly into Apple's hands.

Hey, there many geeks that love the iPhone 4. I am one of them.

BTW, some of the worst comments about this farce have also come from "loyal" customers (you know, people that own many Apple products) but have jumped on this joke of a bandwagon. They feel Apple have done them wrong one way or another.
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post #150 of 271
The perception WAS the iPhone is a bad phone that has problems and is not worth getting.

The perception is NOW that the iPhone 4 is like all these other phones you can SEE VIDEOS OF WITH YOUR OWN EYES, doing what all these tech bloggers and Internet whiners are carrying on about.

Steve Jobs didn't just roll over and give in, he took it too all the whiners with a simple statement of truth, a decent plan of action AND PUT ALL APPLE'S COMPETITORS back on the defensive.

A masterstroke, genius, changing the game to suit Apple.

Now all you whiners can keep going on about attenuation and detuning and vague technical differences, thousand's and thousand's of posts filling thousands of blogs, all the while people are seeing videos of this phone and that phone DOING WHAT YOU WHINE about and not caring at all about what causes it, all they care about is that it happens to all phones and that at least Apple can be seen VERY PUBLICLY to be doing something about it.

Try it, if it doesn't work we'll give you your money back, with NO RISK, if you are worried we'll give you a FREE case at NO RISK.

What happens the first time someone who takes the advice of one of these whiners drops a call, with their Droid, Black berry Bold, Nokia N97 mini, Samsung Captivate (Galaxy S), their credibility will be zero, Apple will be right so what happens next year?

Who will be relevant then.

Genius, Apple going on the offensive, not lying back and taking it, hitting back and hitting back hard.

No matter how much people whine and bitch and moan and throw up videos and throw around big words Steve Jobs has made the issues with the iPhone 4 no different to any other smartphone out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

There is clearly a problem and that problem is perception is reality. If there was really no problem Apple wouldn't have held a press conference and wouldn't have given away free bumpers to EVERY iPhone 4 user if they have a problem or not.

I have no clue if there is a widespread problem and neither do you so acting like you do just makes you look stupid. Steve Jobs doesn't hold a press conference for no reason and even more so give away stuff for free.
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post #151 of 271
Edit: retracted. Can't think of a post that isn't taking one side or the other.
post #152 of 271
I tried and tried numerous times to reproduce this on my Wife's Motorola X same result every time. Bars stayed the same.

Guess my next Phone with be Android Based. Maybe the next phone from Apple wont have an antenna problem.

2010 MacBook Pro 13, 2.66
Dell XPS 420 - Gaming PC
iPhone 3G 8GB
iPhone 4 on StraightTalk

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iPhone 3G 8GB
iPhone 4 on StraightTalk

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post #153 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rind View Post

I tried and tried numerous times to reproduce this on my Wife's Motorola X same result every time. Bars stayed the same.

Guess my next Phone with be Android Based. Maybe the next phone from Apple wont have an antenna problem.

Maybe you should stop believing everything you read and try the iPhone 4 for yourself. Then, if the phone is not to your satisfaction, just return it.

It's truly amazing how people choose to ignore the obvious.

BTW, if you're happy with the Droid, more power to you. Competition is good.
Originally Posted by Granmastak: Labor unions managed to kill manufacturing a long time ago with their unreasonable demands. Now the people they were trying to protect, are out of a job.
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Originally Posted by Granmastak: Labor unions managed to kill manufacturing a long time ago with their unreasonable demands. Now the people they were trying to protect, are out of a job.
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post #154 of 271
It also won't have your iPhone Apps, that's if you've got any, enjoy your trip to the Android market, good luck finding replacements, don't forget to have your credit card handy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rind View Post

I tried and tried numerous times to reproduce this on my Wife's Motorola X same result every time. Bars stayed the same.

Guess my next Phone with be Android Based. Maybe the next phone from Apple wont have an antenna problem.
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post #155 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rind View Post

I tried and tried numerous times to reproduce this on my Wife's Motorola X same result every time. Bars stayed the same.

And there're people saying exactly the same thing with their IP4s, even in this thread. What does that tell you? That Apple is lying, or that Apple is right that the issue happens to every phones and only affect a small part of user?
post #156 of 271
Havent so much as seen the new iPhone in person.

We decided to switch to Verizon since the Wife found out she gets a really nice discount from them. The plan will end up being cheaper then AT&T.
That is the only reason I agreed to switch as I really like the iPhone, But I like keeping money also

2010 MacBook Pro 13, 2.66
Dell XPS 420 - Gaming PC
iPhone 3G 8GB
iPhone 4 on StraightTalk

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2010 MacBook Pro 13, 2.66
Dell XPS 420 - Gaming PC
iPhone 3G 8GB
iPhone 4 on StraightTalk

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post #157 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rind View Post

Havent so much as seen the new iPhone in person.

We decided to switch to Verizon since the Wife found out she gets a really nice discount from them. The plan will end up being cheaper then AT&T.
That is the only reason I agreed to switch as I really like the iPhone, But I like keeping money also

Hey, if Verizon is giving you what you want, there is nothing wrong with that.
Originally Posted by Granmastak: Labor unions managed to kill manufacturing a long time ago with their unreasonable demands. Now the people they were trying to protect, are out of a job.
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Originally Posted by Granmastak: Labor unions managed to kill manufacturing a long time ago with their unreasonable demands. Now the people they were trying to protect, are out of a job.
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post #158 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rind View Post

Havent so much as seen the new iPhone in person.

We decided to switch to Verizon since the Wife found out she gets a really nice discount from them. The plan will end up being cheaper then AT&T.
That is the only reason I agreed to switch as I really like the iPhone, But I like keeping money also

Stay as far away as you can from the iPhone! To hold one in your hand is no way to enjoy a contractual binding agreement with Verizon..., nice discount and all.
post #159 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by uguysrnuts View Post

Hey, if Verizon is giving you what you want, there is nothing wrong with that.

Apparently they can't. Only 20% of Android owners would buy another Android phone vs. 77% of iPhone owners would would buy another iPhone.
post #160 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongDukDong View Post

And why don't you stop lying, you pathetic Apple Butt-Boy.

Go to one of the grown-up Apple discussion sites like Macintouch, and you'll find plenty of reports about people who weren't given replacement batteries when their bulging batteries were out of warranty.

1) Awesome argument¡ Im so blindly pro-Apple that Im telling how to get a free battery and have stated that Ive done this plenty of times over the years, instead of telling people that its their fault and they need to pay Apple for another battery, thus increasing their profit. Again, awesome argument¡

PS: To those with bulging batteries, make sure you emphasis the bulge of the battery, the affect it has on other components, and the state the potential fire hazard. This is Apples problem, despite what the trolls want to tell you.

PPS: Mods, why isnt this guy banned? I dont think hes made a post that wasnt an attempt to harass and insult posters. Even though hes quite bad at it and I can see how you might feel sorry for him, its still detracts from the thread



Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Edit: retracted. Can't think of a post that isn't taking one side or the other.

Then take both sides by forming two arguments, or a completely different PoV.
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