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Britain Plan Adopts GOP Health Care Direction

post #1 of 73
Thread Starter 
This can't be! Democrats told us that government would be the savior of health care! Now Britain is adopting Republican health care plans with their health care proposals! Why is this? You don't think - by chance - the GOP was right all along about socialized health care? What can we learn here? Is ObamaCare doomed?

Britain Plans to Decentralize Health Care
By SARAH LYALL
Published: July 24, 2010
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/25/wo...n.html?_r=2&hp
The plan would also shrink the bureaucratic apparatus, in keeping with the governments goal to effect $30 billion in efficiency savings in the health budget by 2014 and to reduce administrative costs by 45 percent. Tens of thousands of jobs would be lost because layers of bureaucracy would be abolished. In a document, or white paper, outlining the plan, the government admitted that the changes would cause significant disruption and loss of jobs. But it said: The current architecture of the health system has developed piecemeal, involves duplication and is unwieldy. Liberating the N.H.S., and putting power in the hands of patients and clinicians, means we will be able to effect a radical simplification, and remove layers of management.
post #2 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

Britain Plans to Decentralize Health Care
By SARAH LYALL
Published: July 24, 2010
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/25/wo...n.html?_r=2&hp
Tens of thousands of jobs would be lost because layers of bureaucracy would be abolished. In a document, or white paper, outlining the plan, the government admitted that the changes would cause significant disruption and loss of jobs.

One of the reasons why this won't work--lost jobs.
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post #3 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

This can't be! Democrats told us that government would be the savior of health care! Now Britain is adopting Republican health care plans with their health care proposals! Why is this? You don't think - by chance - the GOP was right all along about socialized health care? What can we learn here? Is ObamaCare doomed?

Really, they are going to allow insurance cos to drop people at will?
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post #4 of 73
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Really, they are going to allow insurance cos to drop people at will?

The U.K. is not as brutal as the US on medical insurers; over in the U.K. they do not demonize those helping sick people while over here Obama does that routinely to the health profession.
post #5 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

The U.K. is not as brutal as the US on medical insurers; over in the U.K. they do not demonize those helping sick people while over here Obama does that routinely to the health profession.

While this may be true to a limited extent, I think that the medical insurers are not above making a tidy profit. It is not uncommon to hear of cases where the insurer denied coverage to save a person who wanted to try a still experimental procedure.
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #6 of 73
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

While this may be true to a limited extent, I think that the medical insurers are not above making a tidy profit. It is not uncommon to hear of cases where the insurer denied coverage to save a person who wanted to try a still experimental procedure.

Demonizing medical insurers because of profit they may make does a disservice to the profession. Since when did making a profit become a bad thing? The story posted illustrates that socialized medicine of the type advanced in the U.K. does not work and that the U.K. is exploring privatizing some aspects of their care - this should actually be referred to as "re-privatizing" since medical care is best provided by private as opposed to government hands.
post #7 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Really, they are going to allow insurance cos to drop people at will?

Actually that's never really been the rule. Not even a good straw man from you.
post #8 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

While this may be true to a limited extent, I think that the medical insurers are not above making a tidy profit. It is not uncommon to hear of cases where the insurer denied coverage to save a person who wanted to try a still experimental procedure.

Why should they? Why should an insurance company pay for some doctors' experiments?
post #9 of 73
What can I say? Obama will hold on to socialism after Hugo Chavez gives up on it. This country is going to make a very sharp turn to the right. We take a big step towards taking our country back in November.
post #10 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Common Man View Post

What can I say? Obama will hold on to socialism after Hugo Chavez gives up on it. This country is going to make a very sharp turn to the right. We take a big step towards taking our country back in November.



Back to what? Back to the Bush days?

Back to the stone age?

What are you talking about here?

Back is where we've been. And most recently ( most of this decade ) is what got us into the mess we're in.

The die was cast before Obama took office.

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post #11 of 73
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Back to what? Back to the Bush days?

5% unemployment... banks in great shape... lots of jobs... clean southern Gulf waters... people loving this nation... good race relations... one third the deficit as now... not at war with Arizona... able to vote without Black Panther harassment!

BACK TO THE BUSH DAYS INDEED!!!
post #12 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Back to what? Back to the Bush days?

Back to the stone age?

What are you talking about here?

Back is where we've been. And most recently ( most of this decade ) is what got us into the mess we're in.

The die was cast before Obama took office.


You might as well face it - they're addicted to Bush.
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post #13 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

5% unemployment... banks in great shape... lots of jobs... clean southern Gulf waters... people loving this nation... good race relations... one third the deficit as now... not at war with Arizona... able to vote without Black Panther harassment!

BACK TO THE BUSH DAYS INDEED!!!

The financial crisis happened on BUSH'S WATCH.

George W. Bush is RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MESS YOU ARE IN.

To put it another way, when Barack Obama was elected, the unemployment and the state of the banks WAS GOING TO HAPPEN. Because the CRISIS HAD ALREADY HAPPENED. Do you remember McCain 'suspending his campaign'? That was because THE CRISIS HAD ALREADY HAPPENED. IN THE ELECTION.

Secondly, Barack Obama's mere election improved your country's international standing overnight. Everyone hated George Bush, everywhere. Now people actually like your nation a little more.

And you talk of the fucking deficit?

George W Bush took Clinton's record surplus and turned it on its head.

If you actually want those Bush days back, you deserve to live in them. Because from outside eyes, George Bush practically destroyed your nation.
post #14 of 73
And another thing. A propos the thread, this ridiculous thread.

David. You say that Britain is adopting the GOP 'direction' on health care.

Is the GOP plan to make American health care absolutely free at the point of treatment? Is the GOP introducing mandatory public health insurance?

Because that's how the British NHS works, and it's going to continue like that under this plan. Is that the GOP 'direction' David? Mandatory public health insurance and the option of going private if you can afford it? Well, great. The NHS is very popular in Britain.

Yes, the NHS is still going to be evil, communist socialised death panels and salt mines and Nazi uniforms forced abortions for white people and kill spastics at birth medicine.

So is the GOP plan far more radical than Obama's? Really?

The British NHS is going to continue to be publicly funded. Under the Conservative plans, it's going to continue to be a free at the point of access scheme, and taxes and mandatory state insurance are going to continue to pay for it, and no English person is going to need private insurance at all. Luckily. Because the British like that.

It is, in fact, nothing like the GOP plans at all, is it?

And secondly, simply because a conservative government outside America decides to reform the health service, even if they used Republican legislation down to the letter, it doesn't make it 'right', as you ask. What a ludicrous, illogical argument you have made.

Your thread is based on a premise which is factually incorrect and absolutely illogical.
post #15 of 73
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

If you actually want those Bush days back, you deserve to live in them. Because from outside eyes, George Bush practically destroyed your nation.

After just two years of Obama, I pray for a president just like George W. Bush, for the reasons I enumerated. Obama has tried to fundamentally change this nation to something it is not. This nation was well served by President Bush and is poorly served by Obama. In just 100 days the nation will change the House to GOP leadership and there is a good change the Senate will change too. In two more years after that Obama will be voted out of office. Yeah... I'll take the Bush days again; as will the nation, because these Obama days really suck...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

David. You say that Britain is adopting the GOP 'direction' on health care..

Actually it was a New York TImes article that cited a U.K. plan to scale back their socialized medicine that said it; not me. And yes that was the GOP plan they advanced for this nation, to reduce government interference in health care. Regrettably ObamaCare goes down the failed path of the U.K. and that is what is being discussed.
post #16 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

After just two years of Obama, I pray for a president just like George W. Bush, for the reasons I enumerated.

The crisis happened on Bush's watch. At the end of two terms.

George Bush destroyed your nation's reputation abroad.

He turned a record surplus into a record deficit.

He was incompetent, ideologically blind and he virtually brought your nation down.

And you want someone like him back.

You deserve it.
post #17 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

5% unemployment... banks in great shape... lots of jobs... clean southern Gulf waters... people loving this nation... good race relations... one third the deficit as now... not at war with Arizona... able to vote without Black Panther harassment!

BACK TO THE BUSH DAYS INDEED!!!

You forgot Worst economic downturn since the great depression.

Now how could you forget that? That happened during his term in office not Obama's. All of the stuff you listed was in the best times and where the hell were you living with this one?
Quote:
people loving this nation... good race relations..

Unnecessary war, people distrusting this nation at home and abroad. Man your head is in the sand up to your butt.

The short good times led to the worst times.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #18 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

After just two years of Obama, I pray for a president just like George W. Bush, for the reasons I enumerated. Obama has tried to fundamentally change this nation to something it is not. This nation was well served by President Bush and is poorly served by Obama. In just 100 days the nation will change the House to GOP leadership and there is a good change the Senate will change too. In two more years after that Obama will be voted out of office. Yeah... I'll take the Bush days again; as will the nation, because these Obama days really suck...



Actually it was a New York TImes article that cited a U.K. plan to scale back their socialized medicine that said it; not me. And yes that was the GOP plan they advanced for this nation, to reduce government interference in health care. Regrettably ObamaCare goes down the failed path of the U.K. and that is what is being discussed.

Quote:
I pray for a president just like George W. Bush, for the reasons I enumerated

Gee. That's nice but those weren't the only things that happened on his watch. So in other words you hope for another president who can divide the country and drive us into a ditch economically? He caused the problems that Obama has to deal with now. You can spin. spin, spin but you can't get away from that fact. Really is that what you'd hope for? Because that also happened with Bush. That's what you want? May I quote you?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #19 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

So in other words you hope for another president who can divide the country and drive us into a ditch economically?

No need to pray for it. We have that now.

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post #20 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

No need to pray for it. We have that now.

It was in the ditch before " Now ".
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post #21 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

It was in the ditch before " Now ".

And it's deeper in the ditch " Now ".

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #22 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

The financial crisis happened on BUSH'S WATCH.

George W. Bush is RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MESS YOU ARE IN.

To put it another way, when Barack Obama was elected, the unemployment and the state of the banks WAS GOING TO HAPPEN. Because the CRISIS HAD ALREADY HAPPENED. Do you remember McCain 'suspending his campaign'? That was because THE CRISIS HAD ALREADY HAPPENED. IN THE ELECTION.

Secondly, Barack Obama's mere election improved your country's international standing overnight. Everyone hated George Bush, everywhere. Now people actually like your nation a little more.

And you talk of the fucking deficit?

George W Bush took Clinton's record surplus and turned it on its head.

If you actually want those Bush days back, you deserve to live in them. Because from outside eyes, George Bush practically destroyed your nation.


"Secondly, Barack Obama's mere election improved your country's international standing overnight. Everyone hated George Bush, everywhere. Now people actually like your nation a little more."

I could care less what "the international community" thinks. Obama is more concerned about how the French view us than he is about the well being of the American People. Our liberty and our sovereignty are eroding fast.
post #23 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Common Man View Post

I could care less what "the international community" thinks. Obama is more concerned about how the French view us than he is about the well being of the American People. Our liberty and our sovereignty are eroding fast.

This is (and I'm sorry if I come over rude) hysterical pant-wetting bullshit.

Your country is fine. You've elected a centre-left (centrist in European terms) leader. If you don't like it, elect another.

Until then, stop pissing your pants. Your nation is absolutely fine, and your president is doing his best.
post #24 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

and your president is doing his best.

That's what I'm afraid of.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #25 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

That's what I'm afraid of.

Compared to the last guy you had, Obama's an intellectual titan with a suit and a cape.

Right wing America is pissing its pants over a non-existent threat to an extent that it appears to be incapable of making any coherent contribution to solving the serious problems which the nation actually faces.

People appear to have collectively abrogated their sense along with their balls. You set fire to the house. Now the house is burning and you're drawing fake moustaches on photographs of the babysitter rather than helping put the fire out.

You know how everyone thinks of McCarthy and Nixon?

In ten years time everyone's going to be wincing when they talk about the Tea Party. You're in the fucking way.
post #26 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Compared to the last guy you had, Obama's an intellectual titan with a suit and a cape.

So you claim.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

You set fire to the house. Now the house is burning and you're drawing fake moustaches on photographs of the babysitter rather than helping put the fire out.

You know how everyone thinks of McCarthy and Nixon?

In ten years time everyone's going to be wincing when they talk about the Tea Party. You're in the fucking way.

Who is "you"?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #27 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

So you claim.

Why, this really must be one of the most extraordinary comebacks I have ever read on an internet forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


Who is "you"?

In this instance, let's say I'm talking specifically about you. Does that help?

Re-read the last sentences of my previous post imagining that I'm talking specifically about you in the metaphor of the house being on fire, MJ1970, and see how you get on.

Actually, here's the edit, for context. I wrote this:

Quote:
Right wing America is pissing its pants over a non-existent threat to an extent that it appears to be incapable of making any coherent contribution to solving the serious problems which the nation actually faces.

People appear to have collectively abrogated their sense along with their balls. You set fire to the house. Now the house is burning and you're drawing fake moustaches on photographs of the babysitter rather than helping put the fire out.
post #28 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

In this instance, let's say I'm talking specifically about you. Does that help?

Yes it does.

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post #29 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Yes it does.

Great.
post #30 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Compared to the last guy you had, Obama's an intellectual titan with a suit and a cape.

Right wing America is pissing its pants over a non-existent threat to an extent that it appears to be incapable of making any coherent contribution to solving the serious problems which the nation actually faces.

People appear to have collectively abrogated their sense along with their balls. You set fire to the house. Now the house is burning and you're drawing fake moustaches on photographs of the babysitter rather than helping put the fire out.

You know how everyone thinks of McCarthy and Nixon?

In ten years time everyone's going to be wincing when they talk about the Tea Party. You're in the fucking way.

Im often told how "smart" Obama is, but I see little evidence of his ability to lead and to earn the respect of those under his command.
post #31 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Common Man View Post

I’m often told how "smart" Obama is, but I see little evidence of his ability to lead and to earn the respect of those under his command.

And I see little evidence he's good at crosswords. But I'm sure he could beat you at arm wrestling.
post #32 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Common Man View Post


I could care less what "the international community" thinks. Obama is more concerned about how the French view us than he is about the well being of the American People. Our liberty and our sovereignty are eroding fast.

So you do not want to do any business overseas and you don't use anything from China and you don't want foreign oil ....

Come on man.
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post #33 of 73
[QUOTE=Wormhole;1684422]So you do not want to do any business overseas and you don't use anything from China and you don't want foreign oil ....

Come on man.[/QUOTE

Liking each other and doing buisness are very different things.
post #34 of 73
If you think about it, this issue of other "countries" liking or disliking us (the U.S. as a nation) is centered more around U.S. government policies and actions and not about private, voluntary business and trade relations. It's much less about individual people.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #35 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

If you think about it, this issue of other "countries" liking or disliking us (the U.S. as a nation) is centered more around U.S. government policies and actions and not about private, voluntary business and trade relations. It's much less about individual people.

Agreed
post #36 of 73
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Common Man View Post

"Secondly, Barack Obama's mere election improved your country's international standing overnight.

Personally, I don't care about how other nations view Obama; he was elected president of this nation, not to bow to foreign leaders and be an international ass. Most residents here don't like him. What foreigners think about him does not matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Common Man View Post

Everyone hated George Bush, everywhere. Now people actually like your nation a little more."

Beyond the good President Bush did here in this nation, he did more to help the poor in Africa than any president in history. Hate is a word you liberals use far too much. Also, in terms of what you said about "people liking this nation" - what good does that do us?
post #37 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Common Man View Post

What can I say? Obama will hold on to socialism after Hugo Chavez gives up on it. This country is going to make a very sharp turn to the right. We take a big step towards taking our country back in November.

Agreed. The main reason Mr. Obama was elected was the enormous anti-Bush vote. Bush effectively poisoned the well.

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post #38 of 73
[QUOTE=The Common Man;1684429]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

So you do not want to do any business overseas and you don't use anything from China and you don't want foreign oil ....

Come on man.[/QUOTE

Liking each other and doing buisness are very different things.

I agree. I charge more to people I don't like or who I know to be Republican.
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post #39 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Agreed. The main reason Mr. Obama was elected was the enormous anti-Bush vote. Bush effectively poisoned the well.

Obama's election was indeed a freak occurrence fueled by anti Bush sentiments. Today many who voted for Obama wonder what the heck they did and can't wait for the chance to correct their error. Even honest liberals know and admit that Obama is a disaster.
post #40 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Common Man View Post

Obama's election was indeed a freak occurrence fueled by anti Bush sentiments. Today many who voted for Obama wonder what the heck they did and can't wait for the chance to correct their error. Even honest liberals know and admit that Obama is a disaster.

I guess you really can't trust a person with limited experience in a power position.

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