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Britain Plan Adopts GOP Health Care Direction - Page 2

post #41 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Common Man View Post

Obama's election was indeed a freak occurrence fueled by anti Bush sentiments. Today many who voted for Obama wonder what the heck they did and can't wait for the chance to correct their error. Even honest liberals know and admit that Obama is a disaster.

No, this isn't true. This is something you read somewhere on the internet.

Firstly, Obama's popular amongst evil liberal cunts who hate America and its freedoms ('liberals') and secondly he's been a pretty good leader in the circumstances (the ruinous state of America after eight years of Republican governance.)
post #42 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Common Man View Post

Obama's election was indeed a freak occurrence fueled by anti Bush sentiments. Today many who voted for Obama wonder what the heck they did and can't wait for the chance to correct their error. Even honest liberals know and admit that Obama is a disaster.

Why would anyone want to listen to you. You won't even acknowledge that this economic downturn started during the Bush years!

You just blather on about what the right says with their talking points. If you're going to talk about these issues you have to look at everything. Not just Obama ( and notice I am talking about him by using this point ).

Can you do that? I don't think you're capable. So if you can't have a dialog and are just talking at people not with them why bother?
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post #43 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Why would anyone want to listen to you. You won't even acknowledge that this economic downturn started during the Bush years!

You just blather on about what the right says with their talking points. If you're going to talk about these issues you have to look at everything. Not just Obama ( and notice I am talking about him by using this point ).

Can you do that? I don't think you're capable. So if you can't have a dialog and are just talking at people not with them why bother?

The root causes of this economic downturn date back to long before the Bush era. But you'd have to actually look outside the partisan sandbox to understand that.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #44 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Why would anyone want to listen to you. You won't even acknowledge that this economic downturn started during the Bush years!

You just blather on about what the right says with their talking points. If you're going to talk about these issues you have to look at everything. Not just Obama ( and notice I am talking about him by using this point ).

Can you do that? I don't think you're capable. So if you can't have a dialog and are just talking at people not with them why bother?

No question Obama inherited a full plate. I've never said that he didn't. My concern is that Obama's "solutions" do nothing but make the problem worse.

The oil spill caused massive unemployment on the Gulf Coast so Obama makes it worse by putting a blanket moratorium on operations, putting many more out of work. This is just one example of his day to day failure to make good decisions. Blaming Bush won't help. Good decision making going forward will.
post #45 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

No, this isn't true. This is something you read somewhere on the internet.

Firstly, Obama's popular amongst evil liberal cunts who hate America and its freedoms ('liberals') and secondly he's been a pretty good leader in the circumstances (the ruinous state of America after eight years of Republican governance.)

The far left will continue to support him, no doubt. The far left can't keep him in power, however. Look for Democrats to distance themselves from him the way Republicans distanced themselves from Bush in the later years. Obama is just too far left to be supported by mainstream, voting America. The buzz he created during the election is over. Don't look for massive turn outs for the Dems in November. Conservatives tend to be far more persistent than liberals.
post #46 of 73
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

You just blather on about what the right says with their talking points. If you're going to talk about these issues you have to look at everything. Not just Obama ( and notice I am talking about him by using this point ).

There is demonstrated record now of the Obama administration blaming all its performance issues on the prior administration rather than taking responsibility for the actions it itself caused in relation to the economy. No denying that the recession was in place when Obama came to office; many presidents come to office in poor economic times. Obama on campaign promised to relieve the recession; that was a clear campaign promise. President Bush himself, years earlier, came to office amid a recession. Now, however, the nation sees the actions Obama has taken in relation to the recession are making the recession worse. The stimulus, designed to remedy unemployment, actually made unemployment worse, driving the 5% unemployment under President Bush to the 9.5% - 10% unemployment seen now. Moreover, Obama has demonized the private sector through a myriad of proposed regulations, forcing small business to delay or cancel hiring small business typically does through investment. Additionally, the tough regulations the Obama administration has forced on the banks has dried up credit normally extended to the private sector, severely impacting small business expansion. Lastly, by not extending the Bush tax cuts, the Obama administration will cripple small business that will suffer innumerable new taxes it can not afford. All of these actions come amid a rapidly growing federal government this nation cannot pay for. So when the Obama Administration and its advocates try to blame the prior administration for its failures, the reality of its actions are known by Americans.
post #47 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

There is demonstrated record now of the Obama administration blaming all its performance issues on the prior administration rather than taking responsibility for the actions it itself caused in relation to the economy. No denying that the recession was in place when Obama came to office; many presidents come to office in poor economic times. Obama on campaign promised to relieve the recession; that was a clear campaign promise. President Bush himself, years earlier, came to office amid a recession. Now, however, the nation sees the actions Obama has taken in relation to the recession are making the recession worse. The stimulus, designed to remedy unemployment, actually made unemployment worse, driving the 5% unemployment under President Bush to the 9.5% - 10% unemployment seen now. Moreover, Obama has demonized the private sector through a myriad of proposed regulations, forcing small business to delay or cancel hiring small business typically does through investment. Additionally, the tough regulations the Obama administration has forced on the banks has dried up credit normally extended to the private sector, severely impacting small business expansion. Lastly, by not extending the Bush tax cuts, the Obama administration will cripple small business that will suffer innumerable new taxes it can not afford. All of these actions come amid a rapidly growing federal government this nation cannot pay for. So when the Obama Administration and its advocates try to blame the prior administration for its failures, the reality of its actions are known by Americans.

Please name one regulation that has impacted small businesses.

When did credit dry up?

Name one small business which did not hire because of the reasons you mentioned.

Do you own a small business?

Do you employ people (who have enjoyed the lowest payroll tax since 1945?)

Quote the Obama admin blaming Bush for it's failures (other than worst deficit and worst recession inherited which is simple fact).

Bravo, this is the most ignorant post ever published on this forum.
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post #48 of 73
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Please name one regulation that has impacted small businesses.

OMG! Where to start? There are literally thousands of new Obama regs that negatively impact small business... How about the most recent? Here's a story that specifically documents how the recent financial reform will translate directly to impacting small business in a negative way =>

Financial reform to impact small business, consumers
BY MARY WARD
July 19, 2010
http://www.fwbusinesspress.com/display.php?id=12950
However, S. 3217, which passed in the U.S. Senate on May 20, contains 1,500 pages of often arcane new financial regulations that will undermine the ability of traditional banks to provide credit and help create jobs in their communities. Though the bill was created to reform Wall Street, it actually imposes tremendous new burdens and restrictions on traditional banks, which had nothing to do with causing the financial crisis and, instead, are critical to our economic recovery. For consumers, the bill translates to higher credit costs, fewer banking products and a loss of privacy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

When did credit dry up?

Are you in the business of denying reality?

Neighborhoods in danger when home loans dry up
Ken McCall, Staff Writer Updated 11:05 PM Saturday, April 10, 2010
http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/ne...p--646392.html

With credit drying up, where can you turn for student loans?
Geoff WilliamsGeoff Williams RSS Feed
Feb 17th 2010
http://www.walletpop.com/blog/2010/0...student-loans/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Name one small business which did not hire because of the reasons you mentioned.

How about the small business that Obama himself used as a stunt prop during his campaign? Caterpillar Inc.? This was the same company Obama used as prop for his stimulus that 1) is not rehiring and 2) claims the recently-passed ObamaCare regs will directly impact them to the tune of $100 million.

Illinois' Caterpillar company not rehiring as President Obama indicated
http://www.examiner.com/x-925-Chicag...bama-indicated

Caterpillar, Inc. says Obamacare would cost them $100 million in first year
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/op...-88562012.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Do you own a small business?

Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Do you employ people (who have enjoyed the lowest payroll tax since 1945?)

Yes; we employ less than half the employees we did in 2007, most of the staff let go in the fall of 2009 and earlier this year due to economy. Your reference to payroll taxes is not only wrong it is laughable.


More to the point => You really know nothing about taxes. It would help if you would read about what is really happening, Wormhole, so people don't laugh at your ignorance. The references I have posted, documented with links, show you have no clue on this topic and are denying reality... The U.K. socialized health plan is crashing fast. ObamaCare foillows the U.K. socialized medicine plan architecture and will also fail badly.
post #49 of 73
Caterpillar, Inc... a small business?

Wow.

You're further divorced from reality than I realized.
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post #50 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

OMG! Where to start? There are literally thousands of new Obama regs that negatively impact small business... How about the most recent? Here's a story that specifically documents how the recent financial reform will translate directly to impacting small business in a negative way =>

Financial reform to impact small business, consumers
BY MARY WARD
July 19, 2010
http://www.fwbusinesspress.com/display.php?id=12950
However, S. 3217, which passed in the U.S. Senate on May 20, contains 1,500 pages of often arcane new financial regulations that will undermine the ability of traditional banks to provide credit and help create jobs in their communities. Though the bill was created to reform Wall Street, it actually imposes tremendous new burdens and restrictions on traditional banks, which had nothing to do with causing the financial crisis and, instead, are critical to our economic recovery. For consumers, the bill translates to higher credit costs, fewer banking products and a loss of privacy.

So this is how you name a regulation by quoting "will" not "has" or "is" undermining...? Very intelligent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post


Are you in the business of denying reality?

Neighborhoods in danger when home loans dry up
Ken McCall, Staff Writer Updated 11:05 PM Saturday, April 10, 2010
http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/ne...p--646392.html

With credit drying up, where can you turn for student loans?
Geoff WilliamsGeoff Williams RSS Feed
Feb 17th 2010
http://www.walletpop.com/blog/2010/0...student-loans/

The question was "when did credit dry up?" and the answer is: September 2008

In the healthcare bill the feds now will give you student loans. Beautifully ignored A+

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post


How about the small business that Obama himself used as a stunt prop during his campaign? Caterpillar Inc.? This was the same company Obama used as prop for his stimulus that 1) is not rehiring and 2) claims the recently-passed ObamaCare regs will directly impact them to the tune of $100 million.

Illinois' Caterpillar company not rehiring as President Obama indicated
http://www.examiner.com/x-925-Chicag...bama-indicated

Caterpillar, Inc. says Obamacare would cost them $100 million in first year
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/op...-88562012.html

Great answer using again "would" not "has" or "is" costing (costed) your precognitive abilities are astounding you should have your own TV show.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post


Yes.

How much business have you lost in late 2008 and beginning 2009?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

Yes; we employ less than half the employees we did in 2007, most of the staff let go in the fall of 2009 and earlier this year due to economy. Your reference to payroll taxes is not only wrong it is laughable.

You are confirming that Bush killed the economy. Since at that time none of the new policies were in place.

Payroll tax is the lowest since 1945 simple fact.
If you don't think so prove me wrong or carry your ignoramus title with pride.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

More to the point => You really know nothing about taxes. It would help if you would read about what is really happening, Wormhole, so people don't laugh at your ignorance. The references I have posted, documented with links, show you have no clue on this topic and are denying reality... The U.K. socialized health plan is crashing fast. ObamaCare foillows the U.K. socialized medicine plan architecture and will also fail badly.

The US does not have socialized healthcare besides medicare. Thanks again for confirming your ignorance.

None of the references are actually answers to my questions. They are predictions which may or may not happen. None of my companies, all small businesses have lost one single job. I have hired more help and my business has expanded. This has enabled me to invest into my community and and help other businesses make it through hard times. You guys just must be a bit, let's say, not so talented at what you do.
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post #51 of 73
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

So this is how you name a regulation by quoting "will" not "has" or "is" undermining...? Very intelligent.

Interesting tact Worm; ignore the point I was making and concentrate on grammar usage! YOU ASKED for an example of regulation hurting small business: I CITED IT - financial reform impacting small business. Try to address at least what YOU asked for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

The question was "when did credit dry up?" and the answer is: September 2008

Horseshit! Bank lending cratered in the middle and end of 2009 and now lingers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

In the healthcare bill the feds now will give you student loans.

Did you laugh when you typed that? Will the Agriculture bill advance transit subsidies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Great answer using again "would" not "has" or "is" costing (costed) your precognitive abilities are astounding you should have your own TV show.

Grammar distraction again? How about some Strunk & White on semicolon usage while you continue to ignore the point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

How much business have you lost in late 2008 and beginning 2009?

See previous post; we employ less than half the employees we did in 2007, most of the staff let go in the fall of 2009 and earlier this year due to economy. In short, we could whether the recession downturn that presented itself in the fall of 2008 - Obama's fixes have hurt the company and forced us to divest staff and not hire new ones and prevented expansion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

You are confirming that Bush killed the economy. Since at that time none of the new policies were in place.

President Bush addressed the recession of 2000 by tax cuts that solved the economic downturn; Obama has made the recession of 2008 far worse. Simply look at national unemployment that the Obama Administration has doubled - 5% to 9.5 to 10%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Payroll tax is the lowest since 1945 simple fact.

Okay Chief if you say so. Any chance of getting more than your claim as evidence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

The US does not have socialized healthcare besides medicare.

The provisions of socialized ObamaCare are being implemented now...
post #52 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

The root causes of this economic downturn date back to long before the Bush era. But you'd have to actually look outside the partisan sandbox to understand that.

So now you answer for him?

And by the way I've said that myself . Some think it goes back to the Reagan era.

But as I've also said Bush was just the latest in a long line that did nothing to prevent it. As a matter of fact he did much to encourage it.
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post #53 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Common Man View Post

No question Obama inherited a full plate. I've never said that he didn't. My concern is that Obama's "solutions" do nothing but make the problem worse.

The oil spill caused massive unemployment on the Gulf Coast so Obama makes it worse by putting a blanket moratorium on operations, putting many more out of work. This is just one example of his day to day failure to make good decisions. Blaming Bush won't help. Good decision making going forward will.

So. What would those good decisions be? How would they be different from say Bush who was the president when it reared it's ugly head?
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post #54 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

Interesting tact Worm; ignore the point I was making and concentrate on grammar usage! YOU ASKED for an example of regulation hurting small business: I CITED IT - financial reform impacting small business. Try to address at least what YOU asked for.



Horseshit! Bank lending cratered in the middle and end of 2009 and now lingers.



Did you laugh when you typed that? Will the Agriculture bill advance transit subsidies?



Grammar distraction again? How about some Strunk & White on semicolon usage while you continue to ignore the point?



See previous post; we employ less than half the employees we did in 2007, most of the staff let go in the fall of 2009 and earlier this year due to economy. In short, we could whether the recession downturn that presented itself in the fall of 2008 - Obama's fixes have hurt the company and forced us to divest staff and not hire new ones and prevented expansion.



President Bush addressed the recession of 2000 by tax cuts that solved the economic downturn; Obama has made the recession of 2008 far worse. Simply look at national unemployment that the Obama Administration has doubled - 5% to 9.5 to 10%.



Okay Chief if you say so. Any chance of getting more than your claim as evidence?



The provisions of socialized ObamaCare are being implemented now...

Quote:
President Bush addressed the recession of 2000 by tax cuts that solved the economic downturn; Obama has made the recession of 2008 far worse. Simply look at national unemployment that the Obama Administration has doubled - 5% to 9.5 to 10%.

And what did Bush do about it? He was still in office you know.
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post #55 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

So. What would those good decisions be? How would they be different from say Bush who was the president when it reared it's ugly head?

For starters:

Remove limits on oil and gas exploration so that this country can harvest the energy it needs to prosper

Return common sense to our environmental and labor laws

Reduce (not raise) taxes for Americans with the means to spend and hire this economy back to health. Government spending is not the answer.

Repeal that horrid health bill

Either decide to win the wars or get out of them.
post #56 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Common Man View Post

For starters:

Remove limits on oil and gas exploration so that this country can harvest the energy it needs to prosper

Return common sense to our environmental and labor laws

Reduce (not raise) taxes for Americans with the means to spend and hire this economy back to health. Government spending is not the answer.

Repeal that horrid health bill

Either decide to win the wars or get out of them.

Quote:
Remove limits on oil and gas exploration so that this country can harvest the energy it needs to prosper

Didn't you just see what happened in the gulf? I read you complaining about it in that thread.

Quote:
Return common sense to our environmental and labor laws

Like????????

Quote:
Reduce (not raise) taxes for Americans with the means to spend and hire this economy back to health. Government spending is not the answer.

They're shifting the tax burden back onto people who can best afford it so those who can't can spend more helping bring the economy back to health. You have to tax someone otherwise how are you going to pay for things ( MJ chimes in with his barter plan )?

Quote:
Repeal that horrid health bill

What specifically don't you like about it?

Quote:
Either decide to win the wars or get out of them

Get out as these were useless boondoggles back when Bush was in office.

These things would right ( pun intended ) the country? And funny that it really doesn't sound any different than the Bush approach. Remember that was part of my question as he was the one in office when things went south.
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post #57 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

They're shifting the tax burden back onto people who can best afford it so those who can't can spend more helping bring the economy back to health.

Sadly, this won't work.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

You have to tax someone otherwise how are you going to pay for things

Or...you could cut spending...a lot...and reduce everyone's taxes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

( MJ chimes in with his barter plan )?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #58 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Sadly, this won't work.




Or...you could cut spending...a lot...and reduce everyone's taxes.





I already know how you think ( or not ). I'd like CM to answer his own questions because he's been such a font of iformation lately.
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post #59 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I'd like CM to answer his own questions because he's been such a font of iformation lately.

I'm sure he will. But now you have mine too.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #60 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I'm sure he will. But now you have mine too.

It wasn't an invitation however I knew you would anyway so that's why I mentioned you.
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post #61 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

It wasn't an invitation

Well it is a public forum.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

however I knew you would anyway so that's why I mentioned you.

How...ummm...prohetic of you.

Let me try now:

Hmmm..jimmac will remind us all that Obama isn't really to blame for anything because it all started with Bush. Them jimmac will accuse anyone who criticizes Obama of being sharply partisan (while implying he is not) and wanting to go back to Bush's policies. Then jimmac will invoke some "friends I know" or some "guy I work with" or Paul Krugman. Finally jimmac will close with "well, I'm not the only one who sees it like that" perhaps with some randomly selected poll or article that maybe (but probably not really) seems ti validate this claim (in his eyes anyway).




BTW...you never really clarified what you meant by:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac

( MJ chimes in with his barter plan )?

WTF are you talking about? I'd sure love to know, just making more shit up?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #62 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Well it is a public forum.




How...ummm...prohetic of you.

Let me try now:

Hmmm..jimmac will remind us all that Obama isn't really to blame for anything because it all started with Bush. Them jimmac will accuse anyone who criticizes Obama of being sharply partisan (while implying he is not) and wanting to go back to Bush's policies. Then jimmac will invoke some "friends I know" or some "guy I work with" or Paul Krugman. Finally jimmac will close with "well, I'm not the only one who sees it like that" perhaps with some randomly selected poll or article that maybe (but probably not really) seems ti validate this claim (in his eyes anyway).




BTW...you never really clarified what you meant by:



WTF are you talking about? I'd sure love to know, just making more shit up?

You know I'm wondering why you're protecting CM? Can't he answer for himself? Maybe the two of you could get together in the PMs and you could coach him? Be sure and tell him you didn't like Bush either now!
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post #63 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

You know I'm wondering why you're protecting CM?

You know I'm wondering why you're thinking that I am.

I'm also wondering why you won't or can't answer a direct question.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #64 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

You know I'm wondering why you're thinking that I am.

I'm also wondering why you won't or can't answer a direct question.

No. I know you just like to hear yourself talk. And yes this is a public forum. Given that if I pose a question to someone else specifically I'm not obligated to respond to hecklers.
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post #65 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

No. I know you just like to hear yourself talk. And yes this is a public forum. Given that if I pose a question to someone else specifically I'm not obligated to respond to hecklers.

Now responding to a post of yours = heckling. You are priceless! So then tell me: specifically referencing me (implying something I might or did say) and then failing to follow through on follow up questions is? Evasive? Baiting? Taunting? Trolling? Gutless?

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post #66 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Now responding to a post of yours = heckling. You are priceless! So then tell me: specifically referencing me (implying something I might or did say) and then failing to follow through on follow up questions is? Evasive? Baiting? Taunting? Trolling? Gutless?

More like a pissing contest. My dogs do the same thing. " I was here! No! I was here! ".

Playing the childish game with you really gets tiresome. Do the mature thing MJ and let CM answer for himself.
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post #67 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

let CM answer for himself.

And what makes you think I am not?

And when are you going to answer my question? You've implied I did or would say something, now you're evading. Why is that?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #68 of 73
yes I want oil genocide.
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post #69 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Thank you!

He just made a fool out of himself. This should make for some fun on the blogs and talkshows.
post #70 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Common Man View Post

He just made a fool out of himself. This should make for some fun on the blogs and talkshows.

I still haven't heard an answer from you to my question CM.
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post #71 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I still haven't heard an answer from you to my question CM.

Nor have I from you for mine.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #72 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Nor have I from you for mine.

For your continued unwelcome intrusion you're on ignore.

Enjoy your " Time out ".
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post #73 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

For your continued unwelcome intrusion you're on ignore.



So we have the answer: Making shit up, followed by cowardly evasion.

Color me surprised.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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