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Apple hit with new lawsuit over iPad overheating in direct sunlight - Page 3

post #81 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post

Not only can the iPad not be treated "just like a book" in regards to reading outdoors in direct sunlight

Most LCDs aren't very readable in direct sunlight anyway, and iPad isn't an exception in my opinion, the transflection properties aren't strong (I think good transflection sacrifices other desirable properties) and the backlight just can't compete with sunlight. Maybe you get a 2:1 contrast ratio if you're lucky. I wouldn't read a book in direct sunlight either, it's too hot out and the pages are lit way too brightly. Get in the shade, put up a beach umbrella, whatever.

In a rough calculation, I think the iPad would be absorbing about 60 watts in direct sunlight, which is about twice the heat output of an average laptop computer in typical operation (not maxed out, but maybe not completely idle either). I can see how the iPad can get hot. It would not surprise me if direct sunlight on the front surface is enough to take ambient temperature of 80 F and make the iPad 95 F or higher, and trip the temperature alarm.
post #82 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Most LCDs aren't very readable in direct sunlight anyway, and iPad isn't an exception in my opinion, the transflection properties aren't strong and the backlight just can't compete with sunlight. Maybe you get a 2:1 contrast ratio if you're lucky. I wouldn't read a book in direct sunlight either, it's too hot out and the pages are lit way too brightly. Get in the shade, put up a beach umbrella, whatever.

In a rough calculation, I think the iPad would be absorbing about 60 watts in direct sunlight, which is about twice the heat output of an average laptop computer in typical operation (not maxed out, but maybe not completely idle either). I can see how the iPad can get hot. It would not surprise me if sunlight is enough to take ambient temperature of 80 F and make the iPad 95 F or higher.

My iPhone shut down with a warning that it was too hot whilst I was on the beach in Florida last week. I had never seen that before but thought at the time what a clever thing it was and I placed it in a plastic bag into the cooler with the drinks. It was fine soon thereafter. I wonder if the iPad has a similar feature and if not it should have.
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post #83 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by onceuponamac View Post

I've tried to use my iPad outside to read a number of times and have been frustrated that it shuts down.. this is in weather conditions where it is less than 95 degrees outside - but as another points out - because of the black surface - even if it's less than 95 degrees it seems to attract more heat and it shuts off - I have found it to be useless for outdoor reading when not in the shade. I tried to return it to Apple - but they weren't willing to take it back. My kindle works fine in direct sunlight...

Wow. That's pretty brave, effectively agreeing with the lawsuit in the midst of this crowd! You seem to be saying that as a book reader the iPad has a serious drawback that wasn't apparent when you bought it. That's an interesting perspective. And to your credit, it doesn't sound like you're so much complaining as simply reporting facts. So hopefully people will go easier on you than I expect....

The question is, does it rise to the level of a lawsuit? I would submit that it does not. The iPad is synonymous with a swiss army knife. It does many things that a standard knife can't do, but in the last analysis it isn't as good as a real knife/screwdriver/scissors, etcetera, for some things.

Should Apple have warned you of that when you bought it? There are obvious advantages and disadvantages as a book reader when compared to the Kindle, and there are less obvious advantages and disadvantages. In most people's cases the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages. But generally that's because they're doing other things with the iPad, things that the Kindle just flat can't do. So I'd say that people who buy the iPad just to read are pretty rare, and of that number it's even rarer to find someone to whom it's important to read in an environment that overheats the iPad.

It's not that I'm belittling your issue; it's just that I don't think Apple can be expected to cover every single special case. The physical reality is that a color tablet requires the kind of electronics that won't do well in the heat without a fan, and putting a fan in the tablet would increase the price, the weight, the complexity, the noise, and decrease the battery life. In other words, there's not a whole heck of a lot they can do about it if they want to keep the vast majority of their customers happy.
post #84 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

My iPhone shut down with a warning that it was too hot whilst I was on the beach in Florida last week. I had never seen that before but thought at the time what a clever thing it was and I placed it in a plastic bag into the cooler with the drinks. It was fine soon thereafter. I wonder if the iPad has a similar feature and if not it should have.

Actually it sounds like this might be a neat little accessory. Maybe something you put in the freezer that looks like a cover but can keep cold for hours. When your iPad overheats, you pop it inside for a minute, then you're good to go for a while.

The iCool!
post #85 of 118
Well duh. Allot of things overheat in direct sunlight. including humans. Class action lawsuit against the Universe!
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post #86 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacto Joe View Post

Actually it sounds like this might be a neat little accessory. Maybe something you put in the freezer that looks like a cover but can keep cold for hours. When your iPad overheats, you pop it inside for a minute, then you're good to go for a while.

The iCool!

Yeah, getting electronic devices really hot then really cold then really hot is definitely really good for them.
With the condensation (take a beer out of the cooler and it'll drip in a few minutes) and expansion & contraction of all the components, sure to pop a few chips off.
post #87 of 118
Can a lawyer be sued for pretending to care about the poor helpless consumer for their own financial gain.

Seems like an appropriate time that businesses should get together and file a class action lawsuit against a lawyer.
post #88 of 118
Today I was just thinking how amazingly bug free the iPad is for a first generation product.
post #89 of 118
What a crock of shit. I've had my iPad in Bangkok for a month, ave daily temp 38C+, and used it as much as 10 hrs a day, and it ain't overheated yet nor erred in any way.

"environmental environments" - this ain't no lawyer, this is an asshole.
post #90 of 118
Not that I agree with filling a lawsuit over it, but I was surprised that a few times when I took my iPad outside on days that I believe were well under 95 degrees it did quickly overheat (10-20 mins) and shut down. I've never seen a similar problem with cell phones or laptops used in sunlight, maybe a tradeoff for the iPad's great tiny form factor. It would be nice if Apple could address this (maybe a little less heat absorbing black on the front bezel of next years model) but I still love my iPad either way.
post #91 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by drhamad View Post

Well, as much as I think this suit is ridiculous, I do have to be fair to them here:

The ambient temperature can be well under 95 F and it be too hot for the iPad (or in my case, iPhone) to operate, because if it's in direct sunlight it's usually heating up far beyond the ambient. This is NOT covered by the Apple statement.

But I mean, c'mon. This is common sense.

That's probably why they don't say "ambient temperature". I would interpret Apple's statement as the temperature the device would experience due to any environmental conditions. That would include the temp of the air and the effects of sun light, wind, whatever the iPad may be resting on (like hot concrete), etc. You can't be in near freezing ambient temperature and then wonder why your iPod doesn't work when you set it on the burner of a stove. So basically, you have to include the effect of all sources of thermal transfer.
post #92 of 118
Free loaders trying to claim ipads overheat when the weather in most of the country has been upper 90s. Give me a break. go do something useful with your time!!!!!!!!!
post #93 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

By todays standards is pretty hard to believe that the iPad should have to shutdown and cool off when it hits 95 F. The average smartphone with a reasonable load will run at 35 to 38c with no issues at all. We all know that computer systems can run well in excess of 75c without any issue at all.

There is no way the iPad should have to shutdown at 35c.

It doesn't shut down when it hits 95 degrees. It shuts down at some higher temperature (which we don't know). Apple is simply stating that if the environmental temperature (air temp, effects of sun, and other sources) does not go about 95 degrees, the internal temperature of the iPad will not go above that unknown shutdown temperature. Depending on how much load is on the iPad and how much heat it is generating itself, it may operate just fine in environmental conditions well over 100 deg...as long as it's not generating too much heat itself.
post #94 of 118
I just used my iPad for hours in 95 deg heat on the beach in full sunlight. The iPad was very warm, but it never overheated. I can't imagine exposing to more heat then that would be considered reasonable.
post #95 of 118
Lawyers are the reason that every cup of McDonald's coffee reads:

CAUTION: Content is HOT!
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post #96 of 118
Shoosh American! All you care is lawsuits. Get a job will you!
post #97 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe in miami View Post

Lawyers are the reason that every cup of McDonald's coffee reads:

CAUTION: Content is HOT!

Actually, McDonald's negligence is the reason it says, "CAUTION: Content is HOT!"
It wasn't a simple matter of she spilled coffee.
It was served at 185 degrees in a styrofoam cup and that was simply stupid. It caused 3rd degree burns, not just a little redness.
post #98 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

Actually, McDonald's negligence is the reason it says, "CAUTION: Content is HOT!"
It wasn't a simple matter of she spilled coffee.
It was served at 185 degrees in a styrofoam cup and that was simply stupid. It caused 3rd degree burns, not just a little redness.

"Not just a little redness.". That sounds comforting.

Didn't this person try to remove the lid of the cup of coffee while holding it between her legs while as a passenger in a moving car?

185 degrees is semantics! I don't think I'd like it much if I spilled 85 degree coffee between my legs!

Maybe the lawyers should have had McDonalds put the following warning on their cups:

WARNING: Being stupid can cause bodily injury! Hold your coffee cup in your hands as God gave you use of... they're called opposable thumbs. Handle cup of hot coffee only when stationary. Avoid herky, jerky moveable vehicles. In a nutshell use the common sense the good Lord gave ya!

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post #99 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by giosaccone View Post

Gulp!

I want one. Dontbhave it yet but if you cannot take it to the park and browse the net or read a book, email, apple stock is going to tumble fast, really, really fast. A lot is going to depend on shade vs a few apps open vs pixel problems. Man. It seem like apple is falling apart in their Q&A dept.
post #100 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

Didn't this person try to remove the lid of the cup of coffee while holding it between her legs while as a passenger in a moving car?

Actually, her grandson had just gone through the drive thru and stopped so she could add cream and sugar.
Quote:
185 degrees is semantics! I don't think I'd like it much if I spilled 85 degree coffee between my legs!

Sure, you'd be ticked off and all wet but you wouldn't go to the burn unit and spend 8 days in the hospital getting skin grafts.
McDonalds had over 700 complaints of burns (some 3rd degree also) prior to this.
She only wanted her hospital bills taken care of but Ronald McDonald told her to get bent.
post #101 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I have a long list of things that overheat in direct sunlight if this wins. Living in Florida I know about such things

Yup, I'm here on the equator (South East Asia), no one in their right mind would be sitting outside in 90degF or more in direct sunlight (except for tourists coming down here during their winter months), let alone reading a book out there, in direct sunlight and not in the shade.

Indoors without air-conditioning it can be about 80degF, never noticed any heat issues, I even have a book-type wraparound faux-leather casing.

So everything good, so far...

Maybe this issue (let's assume for a second it's not totally frivolous) has to do when the aluminium back is exposed directly to direct sunlight then it gets real hot? In which case why would I be exposing myself to that kind of sunlight other than suntanning at the beach?

Hmm I don't know the iPad in a case could survive beachside use. Anyone has more info on this?
post #102 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avidfcp View Post

I want one. Dontbhave it yet but if you cannot take it to the park and browse the net or read a book, email, apple stock is going to tumble fast, really, really fast. A lot is going to depend on shade vs a few apps open vs pixel problems. Man. It seem like apple is falling apart in their Q&A dept.

Nah mate, tons of people using their iPads in the temperature range of 80degF - 90+degF - be it summer in temperate climates or all-year in equatorial climates.
post #103 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avidfcp View Post

I want one. Dontbhave it yet but if you cannot take it to the park and browse the net or read a book, email, apple stock is going to tumble fast, really, really fast. A lot is going to depend on shade vs a few apps open vs pixel problems. Man. It seem like apple is falling apart in their Q&A dept.

Don't worry pal, Apple isn't going to crumble in response of such silly lawsuits. I think this lawsuit is complete BULLSHIT. I am using my iPad outside all the time. And anyway even with iPad's superb display, reading in full sunlight isn't a very great experience. It's as bad as with any other display.
I think lawyers who file such lawsuits are the worst vermin of USA. Luckily this plague has not spilled over to many other countries!!!
post #104 of 118
Does the iPad have a fan inside? Maybe there are some issues with that fan operating properly.

The Video on the law firm's website is clear confirmation that an operating electronic device left in direct sunlight can exceed the ambient temperature. Not that the reported temperature on any given weather website is the best measure of the actual local temperature. And in the video he commented that the screen was hard to see in direct sunlight - so what kind of stupid do you have to be to sit in direct sunlight struggling to see the screen of your iPad as it heats up to 100 degrees and shuts off to protect itself from damage. Also in the video he says "kills the iPad" - how exactly is it dead? Thermal sensors killed my iPad! Long live me iPad!
post #105 of 118
...I'm increasingly embarrassed to be an American. The parasites in this country are amazing.

You know what? My car overheats entirely too quickly in direct sunlight. Sometimes the leather seats and wrapped steering wheel get so hot that the car is basically un-drivable; I have to turn on the A/C and step out of the car for 5 minutes.

I suppose I should sue BMW for their choice of leather. Or maybe the cows for not having more heat-resistant hides.

Once, I had a CD actually MELT on the dashboard of a car. True story.

OMG, I'm defective too. If I sit out in the sun too long without protection, my skin gets red and painful, and can even BLISTER. I've heard I can even get cancer from it.

Clearly, the problem isn't the iPad, but the SUN itself. Quick, someone find me a bottom-feeing attorney to start a class-action suit against God for the sun.
post #106 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post

Does the iPad have a fan inside? Maybe there are some issues with that fan operating properly.

The Video on the law firm's website is clear confirmation that an operating electronic device left in direct sunlight can exceed the ambient temperature. Not that the reported temperature on any given weather website is the best measure of the actual local temperature. And in the video he commented that the screen was hard to see in direct sunlight - so what kind of stupid do you have to be to sit in direct sunlight struggling to see the screen of your iPad as it heats up to 100 degrees and shuts off to protect itself from damage. Also in the video he says "kills the iPad" - how exactly is it dead? Thermal sensors killed my iPad! Long live me iPad!

There isn't a fan. It really doesn't need one, this isn't like a laptop where things get warm just by being on, iPads barely get warm under their own power. The CPU is something like 1 watt, where most laptops have CPUs that run in the 25-35 watt range. I don't think the iPad gets more than a degree warmer on than it would be shut off.

The iPad would have to get uncomfortable to hold too, you have to expect that with the black border absorbing the sun's light.
post #107 of 118
Measure the "ambient" temperature by placing a thermometer beside the iPad in the sun.

I'll bet it reads more than a thermometer sitting in the shade of a Stevenson Screen

Maybe someone should sue the weather bureau for providing misleading "ambient" temperature readings.

They use windchill factor estimates of "ambient" temperature, why not sun heat factor estimates?
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post #108 of 118
Oh, frivolity, we have met thy namesake...

"New lawsuit claims Apple's iPad overheats easily in direct sunlight"

I also overheat easily in direct sunlight. OMG I'm so sued!!

Apple said the iPad is "like" a book, they never claimed it has the identical properties of a printed book.

I'm stunned this claim even made it to the docket. If this so-called lawsuit costs Apple a single penny in legal expenses, the claimants should be forced to pay it. Ridiculous.
post #109 of 118
I don't have an iPad yet, waiting till the second generation later this year, but a simple test needs to be done. A measure needs to be made of the temperature an iPad reaches when turn off and exposed to direct sunlight. I'm betting that it's going to get well over 95 degrees which is outside of it's rated temperature. The reason to do this turned off is to show that it's totally environmental and not the iPad that caused it to over heat.

If this is the case it's game, set and match and Apple wins because the moron was using the iPad outside of it's published specifications.

FYI, I went to the shyster lawyers website and gave them a piece of my mind about them and their client and this lawsuit. I bet they will try to sue me next
post #110 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post

The same jackholes would likely have sued if instead of shutting down in high temperature - the iPad instead swelled to three times its thickness and oozed corrosive materials from the battery causing the user physical injury. and if THAT was the case - then MAYBE - they would have a basis - PROVIDED they were not exceeding the supported operating environment.

Some of IBM's most recent documents for servers require that customers ensure their environments are low dust - lots of airflow to keep these things cool - and dust is the enemy.

Let's see - need to sue auto manufacturers as well because I can drive a car faster than is safe to do so and then am unable to brake hard enough going into that hairpin turn to avoid going over the cliff - clearly the fault of the manufacturer especially when they show commercials of their cars moving.

Your sarcastic analogy isn't far from the truth. There was an episode of Top Gear where the hosts had to make a car commercial. One of the commercials they made showed the car being driven fast and racing into and out of curves. The advertising company in charge of the project said that the commercial was unusable because they are not allowed to show cars being driven in a fast and dangerous manner. Instead, the hosts where told to find the essence of what makes the car worth owning and make an advertisement based off that. That is the reason why so many ads now are confusing bits of abstract and lacking in any literal or tangible elements, for which one could then find fault and sue over.
post #111 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Only if you choose to light the lighter

Good catch oh and to nit the picks even further.... Liquid gasoline doesn't burn as a general rule... In a reasonably well ventilated area you can put out a match in a pan of gasoline to your hearts content. The fumes however are an entirely different story! As is gasoline when it's being compressed like in a diesel engine.. Both are HIGHLY volatile / explosive and the reason why diesel engines don't need spark plugs.
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post #112 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timon View Post

I don't have an iPad yet, waiting till the second generation later this year, but a simple test needs to be done. A measure needs to be made of the temperature an iPad reaches when turn off and exposed to direct sunlight. I'm betting that it's going to get well over 95 degrees which is outside of it's rated temperature. The reason to do this turned off is to show that it's totally environmental and not the iPad that caused it to over heat.

There's videos of this on YouTube already. One video shows a person taking their iPad to a park, where the temperature outside is basically 72 degrees and very sunnyperfect weather. After 12 minutes the iPad shuts down. The iPad's temperature was over 100 degrees, which IMHO makes it too hot to even handle let alone use as an eBook reader. Granted, the iPad was allowed to sit in the sun after 12 minutes instead of somebody holding it for 12 minutes, but other videos show people laying down with their iPad and getting similar results.

Whether this is worthy of a lawsuit I dunno, but it does seem rather stupid that a device can't be used outside for more than 10 minutes in what most people would define as mild weather.
post #113 of 118
My iPad AND iPhone and just about every Apple product I own, gets wet while directly under the rain. I am suing Apple for all it's got!
post #114 of 118
Mine overheated when I spilled the too hot coffee at the McDonalds drive in again, so after I sue McDonalds again I'll get around to suing Apple.
post #115 of 118
Testing it out now in direct sunlight and in some sunlight behind clouds. 93degF. Recording with iPhone 3GS.

Okay here's my preliminary findings, typing this on iPad. In ambient temperatures of 90degF to 95degF, in the shade, the back of the iPad gets a bit warm. Nothing too hot, the worst is like a warm laptop on your thighs. If your iPad is resting on your shorts as you use it, no problem.

I did about close to 45 minutes of testing by the poolside, I had a period of about 10 to 15 minutes of strong direct sunlight in which (as the video will hopefully illustrate) I tried to simulate usage while exposing the front and back to the strong sunlight. The back top third gets almost too hot too touch, but we're talking some serious sun tanning conditions here, with the iPad purposefully exposed in the sun by lying it flat on the deck chair.

Now there is about 10 minutes of sunlight again, this time at an angle off to my right as I sit in the deck chair. The iPad feels warm but in my current sitting position I don't feel that it is exceedingly hot.

Approaching almost one hour of usage and still no problems. In a casual sitting or lying position at this latitude, ambient temperature and time of the day in direct sunlight the iPad is clearly warm but only "hot" if you try and grip the aluminium back strongly allowing more heat conduction from the aluminium back to your hands. Again this hot feeling is only if you purposefully leave the iPad in direct sunlight exposing the back.

I should mention I am using a PowerSupport antiglare screen protector on the front, everything else naked (the iPad, that is, not me )
post #116 of 118
Overall my conclusion is this. If you are looking to replace the book you read when you are doing some serious suntanning with no shade whatsoever, under really hot and strong sunlight (eg 2pm at 30degN latitude during summer), the iPad may shut down after 10minutes or so. I say may because I am not able to simulate this.

Under 90 to 95degF ambient temperatures at the equator in the late afternoon, under general semi-shade poolside or park side conditions, no problems or shut downs experienced.

Given the anecdotal evidence and my brief test, it would appear under 70deg to 90degF temperatures, in the sunlight in the park, at various latitudes, one would have to very deliberately expose the iPad (back part probably) to direct high-noon sunlight to experience any kind of shut down within 10 to 15 minutes.

Overall I am quite pleased with today's iPad experience by the poolside and I can recommend it for sensible usage at the park or poolside, in any country, assuming you won't get mugged. While travelling, the iPad should be great for most people except backpackers or those going on more extreme adventures. Beachside use is also possible, of course, watch out for that sand! Usage would be reading or casual web browsing, perhaps playing a game may affect your heat thresholds.
post #117 of 118
Here's the video of the test I did... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jv1EYFQuZM
post #118 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

Yeah, getting electronic devices really hot then really cold then really hot is definitely really good for them.
With the condensation (take a beer out of the cooler and it'll drip in a few minutes) and expansion & contraction of all the components, sure to pop a few chips off.

Well, the key is not to LET it get really hot, or really cold.

I can see a new category of iPad case: this one has a fan built in that runs off solar panels.

Add just a moistened sponge pad and the iCool case could keep the aluminum base of the iPad cool for hours.

The trick is to blow air over the moist sponge.

Picking up moisture means letting go of heat, and works as long as you aren't already IN a swamp.

Once the sponge is dry, you'd need to moisten it again. And if you REALLY need short-term cooling, use a drop or two of rubbing alcohol in the sponge.
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