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The Free Speech Thread

post #1 of 360
Thread Starter 
I thought it would be funner to have a thread where people can speak their minds on any subject relating to PO in any way they wish.

Please post your thoughts, whatever they may be.







Let loose folks!
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #2 of 360
Thread Starter 
Turkey is expected to become Europe's second largest economy and the Tory, Cameron, said Israel's a piece of...$^!T for treating Palestinian's like prisoners. I hate the Tories, as any rational person would, but good for him for slamming their evil BS.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
post #3 of 360
Thread Starter 
Hmmmm....

"How we as a society use what we have learned from climate science could define our generation.

Right now, our nation and the world are at a crossroads. Yet we seem stalled despite an increasingly clear picture of what human-induced global warming is doing to our planet.

The scientific community often working closely with governments has produced numerous, carefully reviewed, international and national assessments of the scientific understanding behind climate change. The latest, Americas Climate Choices, recently released by the U.S. National Academy of Sciences, states that scientific evidence that the Earth is warming is now overwhelming.

So it is imperative that the public and policymakers question and debate the range of options for addressing climate change including the level of certainty about that evidence. But a fair debate requires understanding of the scientific process.

The essence of the scientific method is the cyclical process of observing nature, developing theories consistent with the observations and challenging the theories with new observations to build a robust body of understanding.

The path from theory to understanding is often far from simple. Sometimes, new insights lead to dramatic shifts in prevailing scientific views.

Consider the identification of the ozone hole in the 1980s. A consensus emerged among experts within a few years of finding key evidence though a small number of experts remained unconvinced.

Such is the case with climate science. Theories and observations have been tested, retested and reviewed. Today, a large body of evidence has been collected to support the broad scientific understanding that global climate warming, as evident these last few decades, is unprecedented for the past 1000 years and this change is due to human activities.

This conclusion is based on decades of rigorous research by thousands of scientists and endorsed by all of the worlds major national science academies.

The urgent need to act cannot be overstated. Climate change caused by humans is already affecting our lives and livelihoods with extreme storms, unusual floods and droughts, intense heat waves, rising seas and many changes in biological systems as climate scientists have projected.

Although uncertainties remain, they concern issues like the rate of melting of major ice sheets rather than the broader topic of whether the climate is changing.

The biggest question is what choices we and our children should make about energy use. The more dependent we are on carbon-emitting energy sources, the more our climate will change.

If policymakers, businesses and the public are to make smart decisions about climate change, there must be a clear picture of the elements of science that represent robust understanding, elements that remain uncertain and those that depend on future decisions about energy use.

This is the reason for a thorough discussion of scientific findings.

But regardless of how the debate proceeds, it should be clear that opinions or misinformation cannot change the extensive scientific evidence. The atmosphere, the oceans and the land are warming. Humans are contributing significantly to this, and as it continues, it will have a major impact on our society, economy, environment, energy, national security and health throughout, and well beyond, this century.

As climate scientists, we have a responsibility to share our understanding with the public and with policymakers.

But, the future depends not on what scientists have learned and conveyed. Rather, it depends on what society chooses to do with that knowledge."
~ http://www.politico.com/news/stories...#ixzz0tanAazn0
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #4 of 360
Fuck the FCC.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #5 of 360
So, far it's only funner for you, Hands.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #6 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Fuck the FCC.

Howard? Howard Stern is that you?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #7 of 360
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

So, far it's only funner for you, Hands.

You have comma issues.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
post #8 of 360
Thread Starter 
Yo everyone!

... Franksargent, unban yourself dude, jazzies riding roughshot!





Obama tinkers with America and so he's he's anevil muslim... LOL! Fucking ignorant nutters in America...oh dear... Yes oh dear for all those left stranded, left struggling and spiraling into poverty with all the terrivle effects that has.

Promote indepence, that's my philosophy. Promote those to take risks. The risks that they can achieve... achieve their dreams. That means having faith. Faith that when their down they're not kicked further down but given the opportunity to build themselves up.



I truly love the ideals of America but opportunity for the least well off is an imperative that should never ever be forsaken and in America it all too readily, for many,is.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
post #9 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Franksargent, unban yourself dude, jazzies riding roughshot!

You have run-on sentence, plural vs. possessive modification and idiom issues.

I suspect what you meant to write is:

Quote:
Franksargent, unban yourself dude. Jazzy's right roughshod!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Obama tinkers with America and so he's he's anevil muslim... LOL! Fucking ignorant nutters in America...oh dear... Yes oh dear for all those left stranded, left struggling and spiraling into poverty with all the terrivle effects that has.

Promote indepence, that's my philosophy.

...and typing issues.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Promote those to take risks. The risks that they can achieve... achieve their dreams.

Stop badmouthing and taxing and demonizing profits and business and the private sector and the free market. That will promote people to take risks to try and achieve their dreams.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #10 of 360
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

You have run-on sentence, plural vs. possessive modification and idiom issues.

I suspect what you meant to write is:






...and typing issues.




Stop badmouthing and taxing and demonizing profits and business and the private sector and the free market. That will promote people to take risks to try and achieve their dreams.

I'm typing on an iphone, so pleasexforgive me for not correcting Apples problem!




I'm not agai st business at all qnd never have been. It's the driving force behind our immaginations and skills and I chwrish it. In my view we OWE it to others to have a shot at the drea, not demonize them.



* sorry terrible typing, i'm in the woods on an iphone and havE very slow internettings *

Oh and I alwYs thought it was roughshot! Thanks for correcting me, I'll double check that you're right, but i have pretty bad (though not terrible) hearing and I always thought it was roughshot. Haha; lifes a trip!
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
post #11 of 360

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #12 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

You have comma issues.

Sometimes, it's hard trying to read, this bloody little screen, especially when you are getting older, every darn day.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #13 of 360

Excellent article link. I suspect thanks to our relative ease of existence and high standard of living, despite the recession/depression we find ourselves in, we, the people have become immune to the reality of what is happening to us and our country. The cement is sliding down the chute and it's going to bury us in our sleep.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #14 of 360
Indeed. For the past several decades, the government has been essentially rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. The only way we can avoid catastrophe is make a fundamental course correction before it's too late.

The question is: is it too late?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #15 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Indeed. For the past several decades, the government has been essentially rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. The only way we can avoid catastrophe is make a fundamental course correction before it's too late.

The question is: is it too late?

It may very well be. The economic damage wrought by a nearly $13.5 trillion debt is one massive sinkhole.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #16 of 360
Yup, reduce the fuck out of our deficit by reducing the fuck out of our defense budget and stop letting rampant greed and selfishness rule our society.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #17 of 360

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #18 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Yup, reduce the ---- out of our deficit by reducing the ---- out of our defense budget and stop letting rampant greed and selfishness rule our society.

At least I agree on cutting the defense budget. How about bringing 'home' our troops and let some other society believe it should police the whole world, rather than us face eventual collapse due to overextending our forces and finances. Bring 'em home!

As for the "stop letting rampant greed and selfishness rule our society".... LOL. Oh, my. really?

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #19 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Yup, reduce the ___ out of our deficit by reducing the ___ out of our defense budget and stop letting rampant greed and selfishness rule our society.

According to the Congressional Budget Office themselves, our "defense" budget, as a percentage of the total budget, is only 20% so what exactly is reducing it going to gain besides a lack of domestic and world security? Note that chart below is for 2008; interest on debt has phenomenally increased since...


Source: Congressional Budget Office for FY2008

You would be better served by an across the board 10% reduction on new spending across the federal budget, in all programs.
post #20 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

According to the Congressional Budget Office themselves, our "defense" budget, as a percentage of the total budget, is only 20% so what exactly is reducing it going to gain besides a lack of domestic and world security? Note that chart below is for 2008; interest on debt has phenomenally increased since...


Source: Congressional Budget Office for FY2008

You would be better served by an across the board 10% reduction on new spending across the federal budget, in all programs.

Why stop at 10 percent?

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #21 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Why stop at 10 percent?

It needs to be cut by at least 40%.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #22 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

According to the Congressional Budget Office themselves, our "defense" budget, as a percentage of the total budget, is only 20% so what exactly is reducing it going to gain besides a lack of domestic and world security? Note that chart below is for 2008; interest on debt has phenomenally increased since...


Source: Congressional Budget Office for FY2008

You would be better served by an across the board 10% reduction on new spending across the federal budget, in all programs.

That doesn't include the wars and the discretionary budget.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #23 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

That doesn't include the wars and the discretionary budget.

It also does not include Obama's stimulus, Obama's health care plan, and all of Obama's spending since 2008. My point remains, the non-defense areas of the federal budget are far more extensive and cuts should be made in those areas equally to any defense cuts!!!
post #24 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

It needs to be cut by at least 40%.

Now you're talking... and we're just getting warmed up!

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #25 of 360
...but it rhymes.

I was reading the Book of Mormon the other night and came across a verse that, while relating to people who lived over 2,000 years ago, seems particularly relevant and significant to our day:

"And thus because of iniquity amongst themselves, yea, because of dissensions and intrigue among themselves they were placed in the most dangerous circumstances." Alma 53:9

If you look into the context of this verse, you see that it's an account of a war between 2 peoples, and this passage is relating that one side became distracted by "intrigue" and started fighting and bickering amongst themselves. Because of it, they are left vulnerable to attack and conquest by their enemies.

It just made me stop and think about what's going on today. We have all of this demagoguery and intrigue surrounding all sorts of issues - the Islamic Cultural Center near Ground Zero, gay marriage, immigration, the economy, etc. etc. - that I have to wonder if we aren't placing ourselves - or allowing ourselves to be placed - in "dangerous circumstances".

And while we are distracted by such intrigue, our freedoms are silently and steadily eroded away.

As James Madison so eloquently put it: "There are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations."

I then had to ask myself: how can we as a nation come together in spite of our differences and see past the distractions to what is really going on so we can do something about it? Is it even possible?

I honestly don't know. But what I do know is that we'll suffer the same fate as the people in that verse I quoted if we don't figure it out in time.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #26 of 360
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

...but it rhymes.

I was reading the Book of Mormon the other night and came across a verse that, while relating to people who lived over 2,000 years ago, seems particularly relevant and significant to our day:

"And thus because of iniquity amongst themselves, yea, because of dissensions and intrigue among themselves they were placed in the most dangerous circumstances." Alma 53:9

If you look into the context of this verse, you see that it's an account of a war between 2 peoples, and this passage is relating that one side became distracted by "intrigue" and started fighting and bickering amongst themselves. Because of it, they are left vulnerable to attack and conquest by their enemies.

It just made me stop and think about what's going on today. We have all of this demagoguery and intrigue surrounding all sorts of issues - the Islamic Cultural Center near Ground Zero, gay marriage, immigration, the economy, etc. etc. - that I have to wonder if we aren't placing ourselves - or allowing ourselves to be placed - in "dangerous circumstances".

And while we are distracted by such intrigue, our freedoms are silently and steadily eroded away.

As James Madison so eloquently put it: "There are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations."

I then had to ask myself: how can we as a nation come together in spite of our differences and see past the distractions to what is really going on so we can do something about it? Is it even possible?

I honestly don't know. But what I do know is that we'll suffer the same fate as the people in that verse I quoted if we don't figure it out in time.

Great post jazzguru. Your inherent curiosity in the trauma and pazsivity of this world and what that shaDes from, was very well put.

There are those, IMHO, who seek to exploit or have a lack a understanding to such a profound degree, that they innontly exploit (bad phrasing on my part etc etc i know, iphone typing, pleSe forgive) that they turn passive or as here is appropriate "unharmfull" into "trauma". It matters a great deal. What those that seek peace, ...they cannot always see.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
post #27 of 360
Thread Starter 
In response to MJ1970 from earlier...

Isnt it easy to say the free market lifts (if it's truly free) those in povert more than gov help. The reality is that those who are really poor need help and gov can ( can being the operative word) out of poverrty , by offering a laddder that isnt ways there privAtely. Thats crucial, gov CAN help.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
post #28 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Isnt it easy to say the free market lifts (if it's truly free) those in povert more than gov help.

Isn't it easy to say that the government is necessary and actually can help those in poverty more than the free market can or does.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

The reality is that those who are really poor need help and gov can ( can being the operative word) out of poverrty , by offering a laddder that isnt ways there privAtely. Thats crucial, gov CAN help.

Possibly. But, given all the experimentation that's been done so far, the real question is whether it actually does.

My observation is that most government "anti-poverty" programs and policies actually fail to achieve their goals and often are accomplishing the opposite of the stated goals, but are very successful at creating deep dependency upon government.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #29 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

My observation is that most government "anti-poverty" programs and policies actually fail to achieve their goals and often are accomplishing the opposite of the stated goals, but are very successful at creating deep dependency upon government.

Exactly. The War on Drugs and War on Terror have had similar results - encouraging and increasing the very things they claim to fight.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #30 of 360
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Isn't it easy to say that the government is necessary and actually can help those in poverty more than the free market can or does.




Possibly. But, given all the experimentation that's been done so far, the real question is whether it actually does.

My observation is that most government "anti-poverty" programs and policies actually fail to achieve their goals and often are accomplishing the opposite of the stated goals, but are very successful at creating deep dependency upon government.

I agree that gov can and does create dependecy. There are some fine lines in all of this but im of the opinion that helping those that are down is essential as is the help on the way up. Ypu i would think, would offwr least help to spur independence, thats where we differ immensley. Help keeps people afloat, but some will ( and the numbers add up to a lot) fall into passive dependecy, extending their longevity of hopelessness and survival etc) and that's a major problem... But dont end the road to ncouragement ( ie financial backing) because of those in sustained unemployment) the growth of the poor is essential and is the power the eco omy needs. We need to encourage that growth and make life appealing and attainable for the poor. Take away everything and you'll sow ruin.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
post #31 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Exactly. The War on Drugs and War on Terror have had similar results - encouraging and increasing the very things they claim to fight.

Don't forget the war on poverty! Same thing!

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #32 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

but im of the opinion that helping those that are down is essential as is the help on the way up.

Do you think I don't have this same opinion?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #33 of 360
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Do you think I don't have this same opinion?

My understanding is that you would like to see charity play a major role, which i applaud, but i think isn't adequate for many.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
post #34 of 360
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Don't forget the war on poverty! Same thing!

Wasnt wod reagans idea?
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
post #35 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Wasnt wod reagans idea?

Possibly. So?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #36 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

My understanding is that you would like to see charity play a major role, which i applaud, but i think isn't adequate for many.

So we are both in agreement that sometimes it is important to help out those who are down on their luck so to speak. Right?

But you believe that private voluntary charity would be insufficient to do this and therefore force must be used. Right?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #37 of 360
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Possibly. So?

Just say no to a liberal is pure rightwingnutjob that personifies the ignorance all to well of the krony nutters here.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
post #38 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Just say no to a liberal is pure rightwingnutjob that personifies the ignorance all to well of the krony nutters here.

Huh? In english please.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #39 of 360
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Huh? In english please.

"jist say no"

Crony not kronos etcetera
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
post #40 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

"jist say no"

Crony not kronos etcetera

This doesn't help. I got the "just say no" part. Still practicing on the iPhone? You need to slow down a bit.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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