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Microsoft officially unveils key Office 2011 for Mac features - Page 2

post #41 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordjeremias View Post

i really wished that apple behaved more like a "real company" and start listening to customers, start expanding it's engineering and designers team so that not all things are depending on the messiah jobs and we could get real program and quirks corrections based on consumer feedback. Now it seems everything hits a brick wall and we must wait around or send an email to the CEO...

I think they tried that when they fired Steve. Compare before and after he came back and I suspect, like most of us AAPL stock holders you'd see SJ is worth listening to
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From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
Google Motto "You're not the customer. You're the product."
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post #42 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post

For any kind of complex worksheet, it's hard to replace Excel which is one of the best pieces of software in existence for Mac or PC.

And Excel existed for the Mac a couple of years before they came out with the first version for Windows.

I worked for a company back in '90 that bought a bunch of 486-based Windows 3.0 boxes because we were so impressed with Excel 3.0. It was a damned sight better than the old Lotus 1-2-3 for DOS.

That makes me feel older than any promo youtube video of the "kids" on the MacBU team.

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post #43 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordjeremias View Post

as opposed to using office for fun?

Well my original remarks contrasted "work use" vs. other uses, but it seems the metaphor breaks down rather quickly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordjeremias View Post

... again, obviously it is for work... but what i mean is: you insert a picture, add an automatic numbered caption (legend : "Figure 8 - ") to it and there cross-reference it in your text like "Figure 8 shows that..."
now if you go back and insert other picture before "figure 8", and automatic caption it, it updates the text and caption to figure 8 (which will now be Figure 9) . So you don't have to be fishing around to "cross-references" everytime you change somethin in your document order or add something. this for Equations, graphs, bibliography etc etc

Agreed. Pages really lacks serious TOC, index and note features. I still use it for serious writing because I hate Office so much but yes, these kinds of things are still quite lacking in Pages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordjeremias View Post

... well, let me tell you that it would have really helped me out when i found out that pages didn't have one and lost 10 pages of a phd article draft. i saved it once in the beginning, because with Word you do that to get autosave working, and then wrote it all through the night and when i finished and was going to format it, tried to click save but clicked "iwork.com" instead and puff! there it was, a pages crash, no recovery of document and a night of work (inspired one i might say) gone.

it s a main "beef" because it actually helps people, it is a main and basic feature of every single text editor i know, and it should have been implemented since day one! EVEN TEXTEDITOR.APP HAS ONE! it's ridiculous that a so called "professional writing app" doesn't.

Again, in my experience Word auto-save is more of an annoyance than anything else and a lot of the users I see are confused by the ghosted icons. More often than not, when I'm dealing with auto-save trouble-shooting, the client has mistaken an autosave icon for a "real" icon and has thus lost their document without knowing it. Also, more often than not, when we go to recover someone's document for whatever reason, Word simply can't reconstruct the document from the autosave info and everything is lost anyway. (This is all on Mac OS-X of course).

These are just two pin-hole views though I guess and each situation will be different.

The thing I like overall about iWork and Pages versus Office is that for the first time in many many years someone (Apple) has actually re-thought what the program should act like. All the other alternatives to Word and Office are basically just crappy buggy copies of the same UI. They also tend towards giant integrated Office environments and in some cases can't even be used in a separate fashion. Open Office is a horrendously bad design in this regard.

iWork has the advantage (IMO of course), of stripping out all the unnecessary crud and add-ins that Office and Word has. For instance in Word there are two (or three depending on how you define it) different ways of paginating a document and they are each completely incompatible with each other. Not only that, they are deliberately styled so as to appear to be the same thing to the end user. There are layers of crud like this all through the Office product.
post #44 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post

For any kind of complex worksheet, it's hard to replace Excel which is one of the best pieces of software in existence for Mac or PC.

Much as Microsoft drive me crazy ( an early Vista release drove me to the Mac ), I completely agree. Excel is one of the most useful pieces of software ever written.

Excel is a generic data-processing tool for the desktop, based around the concept of data held in grids.

Numbers is for displaying spreadsheets.

For individuals that process information to get things done that makes all the difference.

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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post #45 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by ihxo View Post

Kinda weird that they talk about the ribbon like it's an UI achievement...

I'd say it was. Initially you have no idea where anything is, but once your used to it, trying to use an old version seems impossible to find anything. Drop downs are just dated these days, could you imagine drop downs on an iPad? How ridiculous would that be.
post #46 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by PXT View Post

Much as Microsoft drive me crazy ( an early Vista release drove me to the Mac ), I completely agree. Excel is one of the most useful pieces of software ever written.

Excel is a generic data-processing tool for the desktop, based around the concept of data held in grids.

Numbers is for displaying spreadsheets.

For individuals that process information to get things done that makes all the difference.

Yeah, and I don't know why Numbers had to be so "different" than Excel. Here's one case where Apple should have recognized Excel as perhaps the best software app anywhere and gotten over their "not invented here" issue (assuming they had one). I'm not opposed to Numbers not being a copy of Excel but changing the fundamental way the software works was not the best move, IMHO.
post #47 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

So basically whatever features Apple added *last* year to iWorks and MobileMe, are now going to be in Office *next* year. Wow.

Unless you *have* to for your job, why would anyone use Office on the Mac?

Because the other office programs, including Pages and OpenOffice, don't do nearly enough of what I want them to do.

I know Word is bloated and annoying to use, with lots of inefficiency, but I can do a lot more with it. (I'm talking about Word 2004, as I will never update to a "ribbon" interface). And Numbers is not a very good substitute for Excel. There are some really nice things in Pages and Numbers, but they just aren't enough.
post #48 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post

Yeah, and I don't know why Numbers had to be so "different" than Excel. Here's one case where Apple should have recognized Excel as perhaps the best software app anywhere and gotten over their "not invented here" issue (assuming they had one). I'm not opposed to Numbers not being a copy of Excel but changing the fundamental way the software works was not the best move, IMHO.

I'm not so sure. Forget about people like us who just try new software because we 'can'. (read 'geek') From Apple's pov it would be nonsensical to put out an office app that mimicked Excel for a couple of reasons:
  • People who have grown up with Excel are unlikely to switch anyway. Usability and simplicity is 90% what you are used to.
  • Apple offers a budget spreadsheet that is excellent for presentations and target a different market than you average excel users (differentiation). They also catch regular spreadsheet users that don't want to spend hundreds of dollars. Those users get accustomed to the way Numbers work and when they try Excel they find Excel to be awkward - just like you may find Numbers. Thus they are likely to stick with Numbers.
post #49 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

I'm not so sure. Forget about people like us who just try new software because we 'can'. (read 'geek') From Apple's pov it would be nonsensical to put out an office app that mimicked Excel for a couple of reasons:
  • People who have grown up with Excel are unlikely to switch anyway. Usability and simplicity is 90% what you are used to.
  • Apple offers a budget spreadsheet that is excellent for presentations and target a different market than you average excel users (differentiation). They also catch regular spreadsheet users that don't want to spend hundreds of dollars. Those users get accustomed to the way Numbers work and when they try Excel they find Excel to be awkward - just like you may find Numbers. Thus they are likely to stick with Numbers.

Not to mention just copying existing software doesn't really lead to changes that can actually make software work better for users. It's always a good idea to take a step back from "the standard" and see if there isn't a better way to do things. Whether you think they succeeded or failed, at least they are working on improving the spreadsheet, not just copying someone else.
post #50 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordjeremias View Post

also, a simple efficient way to know if there is any new mail since the last time i checked

Try this plug-in for Mail. Incoming mail pops up in an overlay that you can size how you wish. The overlay has To, From, Subject, Mailbox and the body of the email displayed. I use it every day and it is very helpful. It's a beta, but I don't have issues with it. MailAppetizer
MailAppetizer does not yet work with Snow Leopard, but you can get a current build if you like taking risks: MailAppetizer for Snow Leopard build

There are tons of other helpers for Apple Mail on this site: Hawkwings
Warning: the Hawkwings website is having problems right now. It was up but very slow a few minutes ago and now is down entirely.
post #51 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

So basically whatever features Apple added *last* year to iWorks and MobileMe, are now going to be in Office *next* year. Wow.

Unless you *have* to for your job, why would anyone use Office on the Mac?

Excel. The last program I use in MacOffice.
Hard-Core.
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Hard-Core.
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post #52 of 92
I love pages, and use it all the time, there's improvements to be made, but it's so so so much better than word for what I do at work!
Don't like numbers so I use excel,

I'm currently running the latest beta of office 2011 and the only thing I am loving it outlook, it is so so so much better than apple's mail, it's in a different league!
post #53 of 92
I bought a new MacBook Pro in April, and decided to wait to buy Office (which I had on my last computer) until 2011 is released, or the last version comes with a free upgrade...

As slow as Entourage was, I must say I DEEPLY miss it. Mac Mail just stinks when dealing with mails formatted with attachments, and has a hell of a time working with the 4 different email accounts. And 3 different apps for Calendar, email and address book just slows everything down.

I tried out iWork, didn't think it was worth paying for after 30 days, and am now trying out OpenOffice, but it is not the solution for me, after about 2 month of using it heavily and having it crash about 15 times when moving formatted text between presentations, emails, Sibelius cover pages and PDF files, none of which it seems to like. Also, every element of OpenOffice which strays from Office X-2008's workspace layout seems unintuitive to me. While Office 2008 is/was SLOW to open, it always performed very fast once up and running - with OpenOffice, it's very fast to open, but converting documents, saving, printing, and mass importing/formatting is SLOW as hell...

I'm just hoping Office 2011 speeds up startup times and maintains 2008's ease of use, feature set, and integration (not just between office apps, but also other apps that use text, like InDesign, Sibelius, my Web Browser, Joomla client, etc.
post #54 of 92
My company uses an Exchange Server for email. They have stipulated that Mac users should use Entourage. We recently had a PC user leave the company and his replacement uses a Mac. Can you transfer Microsoft Outlook emails to Microsoft Entourage? No, you cannot, not without spending more money.

Will Mac Outlook suffer the same incompatibility?

FYI: I cheat and use Apple Mail because I would rather use my own calendar and address book--and because I can. Not everyone feels they can get away with it and they frequently have to rebuild their Entourage database, something I've never had to do with Mail.
post #55 of 92
I'm a graphic designer. I have 8000 fonts on my Mac. This is the year 2010. Would someone from the Microsoft Mac Business Unit please explain to me why Mac Office has to spend 10 minutes going through all of my fonts before the app launches. No other Mac app has to do that and it's the same in Office 2011 Beta 5.
post #56 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post

For any kind of complex worksheet, it's hard to replace Excel which is one of the best pieces of software in existence for Mac or PC.

Couldn't agree more with this. I use Excel all day at work and I still marvel at how powerful it is. Although I admit the Mac version lags behind in speed and features (namely VBA, or lack thereof), so it's good to see it make a come back in the latest version.
post #57 of 92
I have not used Office on any of my Macs in over five years. iWork has been all I need. Maybe I'm a unique case, but I'm glad to keep the bloated and ugly MS Office off my Mac. I don't see a single feature in this new release that gets me interested in switching to it.

P.S. I've never understood the fascination with auto save. I hate the feature. Many times I don't want my changes saved right away because I'm planning on doing a Save As. Whenever I work on a large document I make it a practice to save every few minutes. I prefer the control to be in my hands and not the computers.
post #58 of 92
> "Vista-like Ribbon UI"

There aren't any ribbon UIs in Windows Vista. Perhaps you are thinking of Windows 7 (which has a ribbon UI in, for example, MS-Paint) or MS-Office 2007.
post #59 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quintius View Post

> "Vista-like Ribbon UI"

There aren't any ribbon UIs in Windows Vista. Perhaps you are thinking of Windows 7 (which has a ribbon UI in, for example, MS-Paint) or MS-Office 2007.

Quintius
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1


You joined four years ago and this was your first post? Defending Vista's honor? Really?

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post #60 of 92
I haven't used Word in several years - I made the jump to Pages and have been very happy. I'm a lawyer, and it's perfect for text-centric documents. Perhaps Word has some graphic tools which make it a better choice for graphic-heavy documents, but for writing letters and briefs Pages is quite good.

Word is cumbersome for ordinary day-to-day word processing. The multiple, confusing levels of pagination, for example (mentioned above).

Having said that, I'll have a look at Office for Mac 2011. It will need to be compelling, though, for me to justify buying it.
post #61 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post

Because the other office programs, including Pages and OpenOffice, don't do nearly enough of what I want them to do.

I know Word is bloated and annoying to use, with lots of inefficiency, but I can do a lot more with it. (I'm talking about Word 2004, as I will never update to a "ribbon" interface). And Numbers is not a very good substitute for Excel. There are some really nice things in Pages and Numbers, but they just aren't enough.

I'm a two year convert to Mac after over 20 years of Windows. I own no more PCs. It's great, love it, use it daily, better in every way. But this fanboy noise knocking everything MS does as crap just because it is MS, is so juvenile. Office is a terrific product and is used by the world of business. Doesn't make iWork bad - just different. Sure wish the fanboys would grow up and get a job. And learn for themselves why one may want to use, and actually like, some MS products.
post #62 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

sarrica
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1

Wow good topic to make your debut since 2002.

I actually went over to Open Office for a few years, but with the release of office 07 and 08 I came back because they were genuinely better and easier to use. Changes can be previewed instantaneously, formulas are a lot more complete and power points are a lot easier to make.

I also tried iWork briefly and it seemed really bad with the exception of Keynote which is miles ahead of PPT, which is impressive. In the end though MS still makes the best productivity software in my book.

Obviously I am a lurker, but I could have sworn I've posted at least a couple of times prior to now. Maybe I was using some other account...
post #63 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

I won't buy Office for the all in one Outlook but I couldn't agree more. I have started to use a very simple CRM for Mac called Relationship 2 (no affiliation) and it does indeed combine all three and some other project management features. It uses the AddressBook db as well as the iCal db so there are no sync issues. Unfortunately the Mail client part is not very sophisticated - it downloads new copies of all your mails - but it allows you to easily attach key emails to users or projects. Not perfect but not a deal breaker for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordjeremias View Post

and this i also strongly agree. the 3 apps is moronic. specially because at least two of them are seriously ill designed.

i have been trying to set a default address for a contact and what should be a pain free task is a nightmare. i must go to the address book in apple mail. then select a shade that means this is the default one, then go edit the "distribution lists as i have several with the same contact, then change it in every one of them, then check again in the main list, and also try to make address book put one email first than another and god knows what else, all to fail every last time. when i start typing the address, the wrong one comes on top, because its alphabetically "higher" than the one i want.

also, address book is an interface confusion. the white page with several fields and plus and minuses is aesthetically ugly, confusing and just awkward to use.

mail inboxes separated from the sub-folders is another moronic decision. it either makes me go around fishing for mail or simply resort to have rules to organize email in the subfolders, but use an intelligent folder to see what i've received today.

also, a simple efficient way to know if there is any new mail since the last time i checked seems something that the messiah jobs haven't decided to waste time yet. in outlook, you get a nice mail icon on the system tray when there is new mail. you open it and the folders with new ones unread are in bold . if you close or minimize the window, the tray icon disappears. and will only appear if you receive a new one.
now in email, i have a useless new message number in the dock icon. should i memorize the number every time i check it? or should i read every single mail i receive, even if it is just publicity or spam or some other stuff i don't want to read now just to make sure that if i'm absent during 5 minutes from the mac, i can know if some new mail has arrived?
i find myself opening the mail app and wasting time far more than when i use/used windows outlook.

i really wished that apple behaved more like a "real company" and start listening to customers, start expanding it's engineering and designers team so that not all things are depending on the messiah jobs and we could get real program and quirks corrections based on consumer feedback. Now it seems everything hits a brick wall and we must wait around or send an email to the CEO...



I can't stand the 3 apps in one idea, it was bad enough when they put notes in with the mail app, If i want mail I'll check my mail in a nice clean mail app, if i want to check calender I will open the calender app and so on, if you ask me the worst thing about Outlook is the cluttered interface you get from ramming 3 programs into one.
post #64 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

Quintius
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1


You joined four years ago and this was your first post? Defending Vista's honor? Really?

Ha ha. You got to hand it to him for planning ahead. Probably a professional. He has a lot more where that came from just in case.

I pity the fool who is shackled to a winbox all day.

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post #65 of 92
While I usually use iWork at home it's not really up to the task when interfacing with thousands of Windows users in a Fortune 10 company. If Outlook for Mac can simply keep up with it's Windows peer when it comes to Exchange integration it'll be worth the upgrade because Entourage sucks and always has.
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post #66 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Not to mention just copying existing software doesn't really lead to changes that can actually make software work better for users. It's always a good idea to take a step back from "the standard" and see if there isn't a better way to do things. Whether you think they succeeded or failed, at least they are working on improving the spreadsheet, not just copying someone else.

But they didn't improve the spreadsheet. I didn't say Apple should have copied Excel. In fact I said they didn't need to. However, what they did was wrong and that was change the fundamental concept of a spreadsheet and I don't understand why. I've used Numbers for over a year and it still just doesn't do things it needs to... simple things like selecting a range of cells to print. Is there any legitimate reason why Numbers can't do something so basic as this?

To show that my views aren't just rooted in "we've always done it like this", I use Pages and Keynote and strongly prefer them over Word and Powerpoint.
post #67 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

Quintius
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1


You joined four years ago and this was your first post? Defending Vista's honor? Really?

I'll admit I don't have the urge to post messages on Internet forums very often.
I, too, noticed it was my first post on AI, and I was a bit surprised. Looking at the timestamps on the e-mail messages there was 8 hours between the "Action Required" e-mail and the "Account validated" e-mail, so I presume there was some delay in e-mail or the activation. So by the time I could post, that particular urge had passed.
post #68 of 92
Office 2000 was the last version I cared for in Windows.

2004 is the last version on Mac. Still using a PowerMac as my primary machine, but 2004 works fine under Rosetta on my MacBook. No interest in upgrading.

I've been writing on my Ubuntu netbook in OpenOffice lately just for a change of environment. No complaints at all. When 2004 becomes unusable on my Macs I'll be upgrading to OO on those machines . . .

MacBU has made far too many mistakes. I have no reason to show them loyalty at this point.
post #69 of 92
Just like you say with the iPhone, If you don't like it don't buy it.
post #70 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

So basically whatever features Apple added *last* year to iWorks and MobileMe, are now going to be in Office *next* year. Wow.

Unless you *have* to for your job, why would anyone use Office on the Mac?

If you aren't using it for your job (i.e. shared tasks, calendars, meeting scheduling, SharePoint integration etc etc) then any one of the dumbed down consumer packages will do. Personally I prefer Open Office as I don't think Google Docs is up to scratch quite yet.

I can't see why anyone would hand over the dollars to use Office at home. It has a better interface and tighter integration than the other packages, but IMO it would be hard to justify the extra cost. I also can't see why anyone would put a Mac into an enterprise environment unless they absolutely had to, which is probably why Office for Mac sales aren't that great!
post #71 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post

But they didn't improve the spreadsheet. I didn't say Apple should have copied Excel. In fact I said they didn't need to. However, what they did was wrong and that was change the fundamental concept of a spreadsheet and I don't understand why. I've used Numbers for over a year and it still just doesn't do things it needs to... simple things like selecting a range of cells to print. Is there any legitimate reason why Numbers can't do something so basic as this?

To show that my views aren't just rooted in "we've always done it like this", I use Pages and Keynote and strongly prefer them over Word and Powerpoint.

I used to use spreadsheets a lot more than I do now and I used that feature frequently. I would hardly describe that as changing the fundamental concept of a spreadsheet - more like a missing feature - but I get your point. Numbers has been evolving very slowly. The one feature that I personally miss is a keyboard shortcut for fill down, right, etc.
post #72 of 92
So funny, you guys act like you were never a new user.
God forbid someone else have an opinion.
post #73 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelsalt View Post

pressing command+S every hour or so was too much work hey?

Yes, because one should have to remember to do something that could otherwise be trivially automated.

That's such a perfect justification for Pages missing a very elementary feature
post #74 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjojade View Post

, just hit command S. If you're in the habit of that, it's almost as good as autosave.

Another inane argument. It's not "almost as good" since it relies on you doing it. It "fails open", which is always the worst case scenario for any modern design.

Having the computer do it automatically and continuously is fool proof and always the best option.

There really is no excuse in this day an age to not have such functionality.
post #75 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHOBIZ View Post

So funny, you guys act like you were never a new user.
God forbid someone else have an opinion.

Not sure what you are talking about. Are you feeling slighted or are you referring to some other post? Generally speaking it is best to include what you are referring to in your post or else you may appear to be talking out of context... which you do.
post #76 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post

(I'm talking about Word 2004, as I will never update to a "ribbon" interface).

You really should give it a chance. After a month of using Office 2007 I can't go back to Word (or Excel) without the Ribbon. There are things about the Ribbon that do annoy me, but you can move the quick work bar below the ribbon and then put commands you frequently use - that solved the issues I had with the Ribbon.

And for Word 2010, the Navigation Pane is pure genius! I live in lots of large, well structured documents. The Navigation Pane is the single greatest feature they have added to Word in over a decade. Yup, it's not dependent on the Ribbon, but even if I didn't like the Ribbon I would live with it just to get the Navigation Pane headings view:

http://news.office-watch.com/t/n.aspx?a=1428

I do loathe the basic search via the navigation pane. Thankfully the find/replace dialog is still there and can be used to do heavy duty finding still. People seem to be excited about the new search so perhaps I just need to explore with it too.
post #77 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordjeremias View Post

well, at least the first one must be a nut-cracker , as they have failed to implement it in what, 5, 6 versions of iwork?.

iWork is currently in its second release cycle. iLIfe (iMove, Garage Band, etc.) have been out much long.
post #78 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

I can't see why anyone would hand over the dollars to use Office at home.

I get it for $10 due to our enterprise agreement and the home use program?

http://www.microsofthup.com/hupus/ho...?culture=en-US

I realize it's the crack dealer sales ploy - but what the heck, I'm not getting away from Office any time soon so I might as well use it at home too!
post #79 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I'm a Mac user, but apparently not 'any' because I don't know how MS saved Apple 13 years ago. Are you referring the non-voting shares thy bought at a value much less than what Apple paid for NeXT or value of Apple at the time?

That's exactly what I'm referring to. Apple was three months away from going out of business.


Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Mac, circa 1984; but you surely meant it would no linger exist but note that the iMac was the machine that spurred a significant jump in Mac sales, then again with Intel chip to replace the high TDP PPC chips that were no longer offering performance advantages or evolving quickly enough to satisfy PC needs, not any 3rd-party SW. I bet we can also see dramatic interest in Mac sales when the unibody notebooks were introduced.

The iMac was the first machine that got Apple going again but they wouldn't have had the chance without MS and the cash infusion.

Mac Office has been the #1 selling Mac 3rd party software for over 20 years. If it had been discontinued (like was rumored before Steve came back) without even offering Boot Camp the Mac may have been dead. This is also considering the success of the original iMac.
post #80 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

That's exactly what I'm referring to. Apple was three months away from going out of business.

Okay, so a $150M saved a company worth $5B. And this beleaguered company begging at MS door was able to get them to buy non-voting shares and agree to hold onto for 5 years. DOES NOT COMPUTE!

Quote:
The iMac was the first machine that got Apple going again but they wouldn't have had the chance without MS and the cash infusion.

So only MS had money? No one could have loaned Apple money or saved them as you stated [Apple] wouldn't have had the chance without MS. Sounds like you are revising even the revised history. Again, DOES NOT COMPUTE!

But if you want to go with fanciful scenarios that cant be proven how about this one: If Apple had licensed their OS the way MS did and the way the PC OEMs begged them to year after after then MS wouldnt have a fraction of the OS marketshare Apple does now.

Quote:
Mac Office has been the #1 selling Mac 3rd party software for over 20 years. If it had been discontinued (like was rumored before Steve came back) without even offering Boot Camp the Mac may have been dead. This is also considering the success of the original iMac.

So me let get this straight, youre saying MS was going to pull the "#1 selling Mac 3rd party software for over 20 years from the Mac? Once again, DOES NOT COMPUTE!. And youre also saying that people buy Macs specifically to run Office for Mac? Do you really believe that? While it certainly popular 3rd-party retail software that doesnt mean its the primary reason people by Macs. DOES NOT COMPUTE!

Perhaps you should look into the deal Apple forced MS to make due to the firm grip they had on MS balls over QT code theft. MS was trying to save its ass from a more costly lawsuit. Plain and simple.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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