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Apple's newly updated Mac desktops feature only ATI graphics - Page 2

post #41 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill P. View Post

Checking the Apple store, I didn't see the ATI Radeon HD 5870 card offered as an option on either the Pro line or the iMacs. Am I missing something?

Thanks

I don't want to start a hackntosh vs mac pro debate but with the hacks now having scripts that allow retail install, no hacking required, how much of a hit does it take not using nvidia boards desiged to work excellent Witt Adobe Master Suie. This could turn into a very serious matter. Anyone have nvidia benchmarks. I read it blows FCP out if the water. But want the fact first.
post #42 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by toddr View Post

Apple has been pushing their top end models for scientific computing. Those of us in that community have been waiting for the update thinking that it would support the double precision capability that comes with Fermi.

Is it possible to put the Fermi GPU into the latest MacPro and access it through OpenCL (or CUDA)?

Why not use the double precision support that the 58xx series offers with OpenCL (yeah, if you need it, you'll pay for the upgrade, and ATI give you >500GFLOPS of double precision with the 5870, whereas NVIDIA gimped the consumer Fermi cards to a lot less)?
post #43 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill P. View Post

Checking the Apple store, I didn't see the ATI Radeon HD 5870 card offered as an option on either the Pro line or the iMacs. Am I missing something?

Thanks

Notice there's no "New" tag on the Mac Pro in the Apple Store. They're not available just yet.
post #44 of 57
Slight technicality isn't the 5970 the fastest ATI GPU. Oh yes Nvidia's Fermi is way to hot and hungry but the 460 is something to behold. I gave up on GPU wars because gaming on PC is a tough thing nowadays with everything so console based, and Crysis Warhead and Stalker etc still can't run sensibly at the highest settings with $$$ graphic cards!
post #45 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Programmer View Post

  • ATI drivers used to be very problematic... a long time ago. Now they have their ups and downs just like nVidia does.
  • This year's ATI hardware is quite good on the desktop, and generally better than nVidia's if you include power, heat, cost, etc.
  • These ATI GPUs fully support OpenCL and in some ways do it better than nVidia's. CUDA is entirely nVidia-specific and should go away over time as OpenCL reaches full maturity.
  • Adopting ATI doesn't bear any relationship to adopting AMD x86 processors.
  • These ATI parts are real desktop parts.
  • Apple maintains relationships with both GPU makers because they tend to jockey back and forth and every year it is a new equation. Who knows, perhaps next year ATI will be in mobile with Fusion and nVidia will be king of the discrete desktop again.
  • Some people will always invent something to gripe about.

The past two years the ATI drivers for games gave me a bit of trouble but it depends on the game. Eg Dirt2 was superb on my 4830 512mb. I don't know much about Mac Pro GPU drivers, any indication if there is a difference between nvidia's and ati these past few years?

In any case I agree, anyone that follows GPU trends know that ATI's 5 series is pretty much the ONLY reasonable choice for the new round of Mac Pros.
post #46 of 57
This is what you want:

http://store.apple.com/us/product/TW...g&s=topSellers

Apple sells it. They don't mention Premiere Pro in the description of optimized programs though.
post #47 of 57
Here is the Adobe info on what cards are supported. New with CS5 is GPU acceleration with Mercury Playback Engine. You will have to look up which of the listed cards are supported by Apple. I listed one in the post above.

http://www.adobe.com/products/premie...&buttonSubmit=
post #48 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbilsbor View Post

I get the OpenCL argument, but is it really mature enough for prime time? Remember Adobe's implementation of CUDA was in development for years. I posted about this "open" logic here:

http://nofilmschool.com/2010/07/appl...-new-mac-pros/

Ridiculous argument. Apple chose the better gpu, and I wouldn't want them to be trapped into being forced to choose inferior gpus just because one application vendor is deficient. Adobe hasn't (hadn't?) gone to 64bit apps yet... does that mean Apple shouldn't emphasize building an industry leading 64bit OS? Should Apple have waited until all key developers had gone Universal before shipping x86 machines?

Adobe is being stupid here. Their software already supports running in two modes (with & without CUDA), so if they really want CUDA in there they could just extend to using 3 (i.e. OpenCL as well). Converting between CUDA & OpenCL is relatively painless -- they've already done the hard work of refactoring the problem. SnowLeopard is arguably the most mature OpenCL platform and it has been out for almost a year now. If anything your conspiracy theory is backwards... it's Adobe that is being manipulative.

People complain about Apple and it's walled gardens... Adobe is far far worse, in my (lengthy) experience. Adobe's customers shouldn't complain to Apple about this, they should demand better of Adobe! It's Adobe that is limiting your options here!
Providing grist for the rumour mill since 2001.
Reply
Providing grist for the rumour mill since 2001.
Reply
post #49 of 57
One more note that should be obvious. Not all nvidia cards support the hardware acceleration needed for optimization of Premiere Pro.

Apple is not conspiring against anyone, just trying to make 40 billion bucks.

The equipment to run high end Adobe software is expensive and not for the casual consumer. And there is a lot higher stuff than Adobe. I didn't like that there wasn't a Mac Pro closer to $1999 but lets face it, the new Mac Pro family is spectacular. You better be working for a living to afford it.
post #50 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccamsAftershave View Post

I will wager any amount of money they are Mobility parts for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that CNET's review identifies the low end 21" that way.
When AI verifies that, it should clarify this article.

The obvious choice for the bottom model would be from the current 5XXXX generation, below the 5670 in the model above. The desktop 5570 is only slightly less powerful than the 4670 (~6%), but has DrctX11 threading, tesselation, etc. not to mention OpenGL4 (should Apple get around to supporting it... in whateverdecade.)
Why the choice of the 4670? ATI doesn't make a Mobility Radeon HD5570.

You're possibly right, and it would certainly fit with Apple's past GPU inclusions. But ATi's Evergreen line is very good in terms of TDP and ambient temperatures; coupled with a growing emphasis on graphics capabilities on Apple's part, I think it's safe to say (but not certain) that the GPUs in question are the desktop parts.

Theory: Apple's recent GPU emphasis means big things for 10.7.
post #51 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccamsAftershave View Post

I will wager any amount of money they are Mobility parts for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that CNET's review identifies the low end 21" that way.
When AI verifies that, it should clarify this article.

The obvious choice for the bottom model would be from the current 5XXXX generation, below the 5670 in the model above. The desktop 5570 is only slightly less powerful than the 4670 (~6%), but has DrctX11 threading, tesselation, etc. not to mention OpenGL4 (should Apple get around to supporting it... in whateverdecade.)
Why the choice of the 4670? ATI doesn't make a Mobility Radeon HD5570.

These are NOT mobility parts. These are full-fledged desktop cards. AMD has said that they are the same cards as on the PC.

What I'd like verified is that they are running at the same speed as the PC versions. Sometimes Apple or ATI have under-clocked the Mac variant of the PC card.
post #52 of 57
URL link?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slackpacker View Post

Listen/watch the Steve TED discussion and draw your own concussions.


SP
post #53 of 57
Yea well, Adobe still thinks Flash is the best thing since sliced bread too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Programmer View Post

Adobe should be using OpenCL instead. It is very similar to CUDA, has Apple's (and AMD's, nVidia's, Intel's) official support and would allow their app to run on all machines not just a minority. Don't lay this at Apple's feet -- the plan has been clear for over a year, Adobe chose to not pay heed.
post #54 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

I'd add a third factor in that AMD simply hasn't had the production problems NVidia has had. They actually seem to be able to reliably produce all the chips that they design.

As to getting pissed with Intel that has to be an issue at Apple. I'm surprised that they didn't implement an AMD based XMac on this go around.


Dave

If AMD's Fusion works out then we will see AMD in the Mac mini, MacBook, 13" MacBook Pro, and MacBook Air since they do not use dedicated graphics.
post #55 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Slight technicality isn't the 5970 the fastest ATI GPU.

The 5970 is a dual GPU solution, basically two 5870s on one card.
post #56 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSB View Post

So if these are stock parts, I wonder what the potential is to go in and do some elective surgery? It seems that there is some room for improvement within ATI's line over what Apple is currently offering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by emulator View Post

ATI gfx in a pro machine, right. What were they smoking?

Not ony that but Nvdias cards are supposed to be finely tuned to Adobe and just read a few days ago, a nvidia card and (new?) Adobe product is supposed to blow FCP out of the water. Thus, no Nvidia cards. Apple again keeping the customer down. No surprise here.
post #57 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avidfcp View Post

Not ony that but Nvdias cards are supposed to be finely tuned to Adobe and just read a few days ago, a nvidia card and (new?) Adobe product is supposed to blow FCP out of the water. Thus, no Nvidia cards. Apple again keeping the customer down. No surprise here.

Here are one of a few articles to point out that since Nvidia has been tuned to run Adobe so well, especially Premeire, why Apple is not offering the Nvidia cards. What a shame. Also read the comments.

http://nofilmschool.com/2010/07/appl...-new-mac-pros/

the part about the pro not making it into the front page really got me thinkng. We all know Apple could release a non server workstation for 1/3 the price or release the iMac configs without the screen, throw it in a box and call it your mid range machne as ProSumers make up a large segment. In fact. It's the same crowd buying all the gadgets. Now add gamer, musician, composer, graphic artist et-cetera, and Apple would make a bundle.
Then it hit me. If these new workstations cause post production houses to go windows 7, we'll see Nvidia cards real fast. Shouldbe interestng to see how this plays out. One guy mentioned a hackntosh. I wonder how well that woud work. Then it hit me again. Osx86 offers drivers for all kinds of cards. Maybe that's where we get them?????
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