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Rather than clone Apple's iPad, Amazon sticks with e-ink for new Kindle - Page 2

post #41 of 60
Meh, I don't get it. eBooks are only a couple bucks cheaper. For even avid readers, it will take years of buying books to "break even" on the reader cost, and the device will probably be dead long before then.

If I'm going to buy, I'd rather have a paper book. They feel better to read, last almost forever, and can be sold or given away if I get tired of them.

I don't care about carrying a hundred books at a time. I'm usually only actively reading one or two at any given time.

Give me something revolutionary -- like a e-library, where I can pay a couple bucks per month to "check out" a few books and then turn them back in when I'm done with them and get something else. I could get excited about that...
post #42 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnb View Post

Meh, I don't get it. eBooks are only a couple bucks cheaper. For even avid readers, it will take years of buying books to "break even" on the reader cost, and the device will probably be dead long before then.

If I'm going to buy, I'd rather have a paper book. They feel better to read, last almost forever, and can be sold or given away if I get tired of them.

I don't care about carrying a hundred books at a time. I'm usually only actively reading one or two at any given time.

Give me something revolutionary -- like a e-library, where I can pay a couple bucks per month to "check out" a few books and then turn them back in when I'm done with them and get something else. I could get excited about that...

Well in the UK increasing numbers of our public libraries offer free ebook rental just like they do with regular books. When your book out period is complete they disappear from your device (at least on the Kindle they do).
Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equpped with 18,000 vaccuum tubes and weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vaccuum tubes and perhaps weigh 1.5 tons.
by Popular Mechanics
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Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equpped with 18,000 vaccuum tubes and weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vaccuum tubes and perhaps weigh 1.5 tons.
by Popular Mechanics
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post #43 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnb View Post

Give me something revolutionary -- like a e-library, where I can pay a couple bucks per month to "check out" a few books and then turn them back in when I'm done with them and get something else. I could get excited about that...

I'd like to second that, except i mentioned this in an earlier post on this thread...when is the public library going to chime into this technology?

A partnership with Amazon, or Apple or B&N with a monthly subscription (minimal at best) would more than pay for itself for a library. The only problem I see with it is that Libraries are public institutions and the national library network is pretty poor. I think that's because they are a non-profit and funding is very minimal at best. They rely solely on tax revenue, government aid and local donations; so creating a source for E-Reading would be a difficult task to achieve.
post #44 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnb View Post

Meh, I don't get it. eBooks are only a couple bucks cheaper. For even avid readers, it will take years of buying books to "break even" on the reader cost, and the device will probably be dead long before then.

I haven't run the economics since the price structure changed following the iPad, and it's definitely worse now, but when the original Kindle came out my average price for books was $7 and my average price for paper books was $13. (I went back and calculated them from receipts.) At 80 books or so a year that difference added up very fast, fast enough to totally justify a Kindle2.

Over the last year or so, and especially in the months since the iPad, Kindle book prices have increased significantly. The iPad gave publishers the leverage to force Amazon to sell at prices that were more competitive with paper. That's bad for Amazon's attempt to dominate the business, which is probably good overall, but as a consumer it's pretty sucky to have publishers dictating retail prices (which they do *not* do with paper).

Even with today's prices most new releases are running $10-$14 which compares very favorably to hardcover ($18-25 in my experience). Paperbacks are much tighter, of course, and with the new agent pricing schemes we have seen e-books that were more expensive than paperbacks, which is stupid.

Anyway depending on what and how much you read an e-book reader can be quite a bargain, although in my book (ha-ha) it's convenience that is the big win. And the fact that I am not accumulating even more books that I have to figure out how to store.

Jim frost
jimf@frostbytes.com
post #45 of 60
excellent price point for an e-book reader or a blu-ray disc player. BD's are better because you own them and can play them on any BD player. e-books with DRM especially kindle formatted suck because they only work on kindles/kindle apps from the same account. essentially long term lease. dtb (dead tree books) are a better deal as they are easily transferrable and outlive the vendor that sold them to you.
post #46 of 60
Yup, that's what I would have done as well. Amazon makes pretty good money selling books on this thing, and since it will never be an iPod if you will, no real need to add features. Plus adding features requires a lot more money and engineering effort.

Lower price and e-inc is a perfect way to compete with iBooks and keep margins relatively fat.
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--SHEFFmachine out
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post #47 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

This is what I noticed when I tried a friend's. It felt like the "page turn" took forever and was distracting. I did not have time to get immersed in a book, so I don't know if it would affect my reading in the long term...but it was jaring!

It is very jarring when you first play around with an ebook reader. However, once you start reading you very quickly start ignoring it and it becomes no more distracting than having to physically turn a real page.

I own an iPad, but I still do my reading on a dedicated ebook reader.
post #48 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by filburt View Post

Price not withstanding, this is very underwhelming upgrade. The least Amazon could've done is to achieve feature parity with direct competitors (e.g., Nook). Chief among them are (1) Nook's "lend me" feature, which allows users to some books without restriction and (2) ePub file format support.

As it stands, Kindle 3 is even smaller update than Kindle 2 was.

Yes, exactly...without restriction...that is unless you consider some books, one time, for 14 days a restriction.
post #49 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by markm49uk View Post

I'm a big Apple fan and also a bit of a bookworm and have been sitting on the fence for a while, mainly trying to justify my purchase of an iPad. In the end though a number of factors swayed me to the Kindle.

Firstly price. With an official UK launch the Kindle is now almost an impulse buy - it's at the point where even if you were not an avid book reader it's just worth a punt.

Secondly - I just can't get my head to the point of committing to the iPad and I have bought most of Apple's products over the the last 5 years. I have a 3GS, Macbook Pro(2), iMac 24" and the kids have iPod Touch's - I have an AppleTV and have purchased large amounts of content from iTunes. Maybe I'm not the target market ?

Who knows - maybe I made a mistake but at this price I'm guessing I'll be one of many taking a punt.

I am in the same bracket - an avid Mac user for about 25 years, with a garage full of computers to prove it, as well as iPods, MacTV, etc. Gave my last MacBook to my youngest daughter because I want a small portable computer - why can they not produce an Intel version of the old 12" Powerbook (yep, still have one of those)? Bought a Netbook and put MacOs on it because on planes and trains less surface area is important - the Air is still large, thin but large. And I want a computer, not a "one app at a time" enlarged iPod touch entertainment device, so I despise the iPad (using the word someone used earlier about the Kindle, perhaps too strong).
Perhaps I am old-fashioned as I still by DVDs when they get cheap, and CDs which I rip in iTunes, and I prefer real books, although I now ackowledge they are too heav to carry too many around at once. That's why I just preordered the new wifi-only Kindle to read books on, the only thing I want it for, and I eagerly await to see whether the rumours of a 10" Air come to anything, as until then my Hackbook is what I need to complement the Kindle, and the iPod nano in my pocket.
post #50 of 60
Kindle will have its space but in total units sold in 2nd half of 2010, and the whole of 2011, the iPad will pretty much, internationally, eclipse it by a long, long way.
post #51 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by icyfog View Post

The reading aloud thing would render audio books obsolete. That's pretty cool.

Eww... Call me old school but I don't think I could hear a whole book read in a synthesised voice to me.
post #52 of 60
Kudos to Amazon for not trying to take the iPad head-on as many have stated they should.

Instead they exploited the the advantages of e-Ink (battery life, readability) and created a device that really shows of the strengths of their platform (size, weight, battery life)

The non-3G version is cheap enough, I might actually get one. And in doing so, that will ensure I buy e-books from Amazon instead of Apple, since I can read Kindle books on both devices but not the other way around. Brilliant!

Well played, Amazon. It's so refreshing to see another company thinking strategically and not just going with the flow (i.e. "We have to beat the iPad!")

And I also like the wi-fi only option. I never did understand the excitement of buying books from anywhere at any time. Honestly, how much time is spend buying books vs. reading them? And as for up to the minute content, I have my iPhone for that. So again, kudos to Amazon for eliminating features to bring the price down further. Although they probably got the idea from the Nook, it's still damn near impossible to get companies to remove functionality, or pick functionality that on the surface doesn't sound as good but is more capable for it's purpose - like Apple sticking with a five megapixel camera but upping the quality of those pixels. Very positive trends indeed. Perhaps this senseless devotion to features and "bigger is better" will wane at least a little.
post #53 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Kindle will have its space but in total units sold in 2nd half of 2010, and the whole of 2011, the iPad will pretty much, internationally, eclipse it by a long, long way.

Sure, but if sales of this can keep people buying eBooks from Amazon instead of Apple, it's done it's job as far as they are concerned.

Once again ultimate market share is not the whole store (it rarely is, but you wouldn't know it from the way people fawn over numbers that are meaningless without further context).
post #54 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walney View Post

(Interestingly, the "additional cost of doing business in Europe" for Amazon seems to map to a price premium of.... less than 20 cents )

Amazon has also shown the willingness to prop up the price in one area with profits from others (remember the fracas over eBook pricing when iBooks was announced?!?)

Apple has shown they are not. They pretty much price things the way they are (again, the whole debate over eBook costs when iBooks was announced)

I would imagine those traits are probably at play in the European pricing as well. Not much of a logical leap, really. I guess my bigger point is - without knowing the details, what we see on the surface is hardly enough data to draw any kind of meaningful conclusion (such as Apple likes to stiff Europeans).
post #55 of 60
Great!

This is exactly what I was hoping would happen

For reading the kindle is better: higher resolution, matt display, thinner, lighter, longer lasting battery (and free wikipedia access). At present, it also offers a much wider range of books.

So I think I'll be getting one. I also have an iPad, of course.

I don't think the two are really competing (hmmm, except they dropped the price somewhat ) But even if they are, I wish both companies success with their products, which are both excellent.
post #56 of 60
The Kindle does not compete with the Apple iPad. They are two different devices. It competes with the Nook by Barnes and Noble. When B&N dropped their prices recently in anticipation of newer models coming out for the back-to-school sales month (August), Amazon followed suit by cutting their prices by $10 for their comparable Kindle 2 unit. B&N also announced a non-3G version of their original Nook and when the Amazon equivalent Kindle v3 came out, it was also priced $10 less.

The Apple iPad is just a larger sized iTouch. Most people that have either an iPhone or iTouch and that bought the iPad have wasted their money. By the way, both the Nook and Kindle have a basic web browser built-in - people seem to have missed that and in time, this feature will evolve and eventually find more uses in schools and businesses. For now it can provide informational pages and basic data entry for $139 with long battery life.
post #57 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by xena10003 View Post

The Apple iPad is just a larger sized iTouch.

Spoken just like someone who has never used an iPad.

Quote:
Most people that have either an iPhone or iTouch and that bought the iPad have wasted their money.

The consensus and my anecdotal experience would disagree with you. In fact, I'm the only person I know that was not satisfied with it but it had nothing to do with owning an iPhone but from owning a 13" MBP and iPad OS bug in Safari. The OS is based on iOS and it uses CocoaTouch for the UI but it's been completely redesigned for the device. Jut compare Settings or Mail an you'll see the difference in the layout. That isn't the result of just installing it on a device with a larger display.

Quote:
By the way, both the Nook and Kindle have a basic web browser built-in - people seem to have missed that and in time, this feature will evolve and eventually find more uses in schools and businesses. For now it can provide informational pages and basic data entry for $139 with long battery life.

I can run a text-based brower in Terminal on my Mac but that doesn't mean I'm going to equate them the same on a checklist of features. But all that is irrelevant because you've missed the elephant in room: iBooks and iBookstore. Amazon and B&N may not be competing with the iPad but the iPad certain is competing with them. Have you forgotten the fit Amazon had over publishers signing up with Apple's service and the iltimatium they imposed on the Amazon-dependent publishers that tied to play follow-the-leader?
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #58 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Spoken just like someone who has never used an iPad.


The consensus and my anecdotal experience would disagree with you. In fact, I'm the only person I know that was not satisfied with it but it had nothing to do with owning an iPhone but from owning a 13" MBP and iPad OS bug in Safari. The OS is based on iOS and it uses CocoaTouch for the UI but it's been completely redesigned for the device. Jut compare Settings or Mail an you'll see the difference in the layout. That isn't the result of just installing it on a device with a larger display.

I can run a text-based brower in Terminal on my Mac but that doesn't mean I'm going to equate them the same on a checklist of features. But all that is irrelevant because you've missed the elephant in room: iBooks and iBookstore. Amazon and B&N may not be competing with the iPad but the iPad certain is competing with them. Have you forgotten the fit Amazon had over publishers signing up with Apple's service and the iltimatium they imposed on the Amazon-dependent publishers that tied to play follow-the-leader?


An iTouch or iPhone can do everything an iPad can do. That's why I didn't get one after playing with it in the Apple store. I didn't see the point of the device. I already have a Dell netbook hacked to run the MAC OS and my iPhone.

A low cost web browsing device with long battery life will definitely find uses in businesses and schools. Book publishers compete with each other on price, not the hosters: Amazon, B&N, or Apple. It is the book publishers that are making the money; the hosters get a very small percentage; same business model as the ccard companies. Apple makes the bulk of their money on the hardware and not the apps or books, according to Bloomberg and iSuppli.
post #59 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Instead of adopting a color touchscreen to compete with the Apple iPad, Amazon's newly redesigned Kindle will instead focus on price, sticking with a low-cost e-ink display and starting at just $139.

Good for them, they're now adopting the strategy, which has been recommended for them on AI six months ago (02-09-2010, 10:53 AM).

One more time, the hint as to not get lost in uncontrolled trolling hurricane on AI is simple as that: ``ivan.rnn01 User Profile > Statistics > Find All posts by ivan.rnn01' '

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #60 of 60
Wow, the 3G version is fantastic value. Consider, it includes free 3G service. While the Kindle browser isn't all that, it would be nice to have persistent access to the web and email without a monthly fee. I'm really surprised that's only $50.

That's less than half of what Apple charges for the 3G capability, which doesn't include service. (Although Ipad 3G of course comes with GPS)
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