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Android leader Motorola still well behind Apple's iPhone

post #1 of 108
7/29/10 at 7:13pm
Thread Starter 
Motorola reported a phenomenal 600 percent leap in earnings this quarter, but is still behind Apple in mobile units sold and is far behind in smartphone sales, leaving Apple the top US phone vendor by units for the second quarter in a row.

Motorola has greatly increased is profits due to a its push with Verizon Wireless in selling the Android-based Droid, also marketed as the Motorola Milestone. The latest model, Droid X, is currently the model being held up against iPhone 4.

Motorola's quarterly sales of 8.3 million phones is still behind Apple's 8.4 million units in the second calendar quarter of 2010, which ended in June. However, only 2.7 million of Motorola's sales were smartphones, meaning Apple sold more than three times as many smartphones as the leading Android maker.

In comparison, Taiwan's HTC (the manufacturer of Google's Nexus One, Verizon's Droid Incredible and Sprint EVO) sold 2.8 million phones in the first quarter of 2010, or 3.5 million counting its OEM sales through other vendors. It expected to sell a total of 4.5 million in the second quarter.

Motorola unit sales plunge as iPhone ascends

Motorola has seen a sharp decline in the total number of phones it has shipped since the iPhone arrived in 2007. In the last three quarters of 2007, the company was selling more than 35-40 million devices per quarter.

In 2008, Motorola's shipments fell down into the range of 25 million per quarter, ending the year under 20 million. In 2009, the company's quarterly sales consistently slipped under 15 million. This year, the company hasn't reached 9 million in sales of all phones, with its smartphone sales being below 3 million.

In contrast, Apple has incrementally expanded its iPhone sales as it entered new markets internationally and began adding new carriers. The company's June quarter results were particularly impressive given the media attention devoted to the publicized iPhone 4 prototype, which Apple feared would result in depressed sales as customers anticipated the new model launch.

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post #2 of 108
7/29/10 at 7:22pm
Well obviously. This is the fate of most iPhone copycats.
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post #3 of 108
7/29/10 at 7:33pm
It's pretty amazing what Apple has managed to achieve with the iPhone. I can only imagine what the landscape would look like if the iPhone ever appeared on Verizon's network.

- Perhaps there would be another bottom-of-the-barrel purchase for HP.
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post #4 of 108
7/29/10 at 7:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


Motorola's quarterly sales of 8.3 million phones is still behind Apple's 8.4 million units in the second calendar quarter of 2010, which ended in June. However, only 2.7 million of Motorola's sales were smartphones, meaning Apple sold more than three times as many smartphones as the leading Android maker.

This is the only relevant paragraph. 2.7M versus 8.4M.

Not even a worthy competitor.
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post #5 of 108
7/29/10 at 8:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

It's pretty amazing what Apple has managed to achieve with the iPhone. I can only imagine what the landscape would look like if the iPhone ever appeared on Verizon's network.

- Perhaps there would be another bottom-of-the-barrel purchase for HP.

Much, much worse. While American sales would likely look better, international sales (the majority) would be unbelievably smaller, as CDMA (the technology Verizon uses) is a dying breed and is rapidly being abandoned worldwide.
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post #6 of 108
7/29/10 at 8:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

This is the only relevant paragraph. 2.7M versus 8.4M.

Not even a worthy competitor.

You should add the (potentially) 4.5 million from HTC and all the other Android phones to that 2.7 million from Motorola. And you should add the iPad and iPod touch to the iPhone figures.

Comparing a single manufacturer or a single product is silly. We should be comparing platforms: Android v iOS.
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post #7 of 108
7/29/10 at 8:26pm
The iPhone sales trend seems to have flattened out. Will Q3 have a spike with the new iPhone 4 or will it still be level or trending down?

Predicting the future is a tricky business.

I'm not so sure about whether Android vs iOS would be more relevant. That might be different from the Windows vs OS X comparison. So many flavors of Windows with so many vendors.

Whatever. I like my phone. I don't think it's going to become marginal in the next two years.
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post #8 of 108
7/29/10 at 8:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post

Comparing a single manufacturer or a single product is silly. We should be comparing platforms: Android v iOS.

Dilger won't do that though - his whole reason for being is to knock Apple's opposition and try to make Apple look good. So he cherrypicks the data that works for his agenda.

He's absolutely correct about the comparison he draws with Motorola.

It's just not convenient to point out that Android as a platform was second behind RIM and Apple has slipped to third. And he certainly won't publish the fact that the iPhone sold just slightly more than one third of the smartphones that Nokia did in that quarter. And that Apple's share of the smartphone market has dropped from 17% to 14% over consecutive quarters. Or that Apple also sold fewer than the 11.2 million smartphones that RIM did.

No doubt we'll hear about Apple's profit margins from some of AI's illuminati, and they will have a very good point. But it seems that Motorola is making money again also. Being a US corporation, I'd have thought that would be good news to some of the American posters, but I won't be surprised if it turns out not to be.
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post #9 of 108
7/29/10 at 8:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbarriault View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

It's pretty amazing what Apple has managed to achieve with the iPhone. I can only imagine what the landscape would look like if the iPhone ever appeared on Verizon's network.

- Perhaps there would be another bottom-of-the-barrel purchase for HP.

Much, much worse. While American sales would likely look better, international sales (the majority) would be unbelievably smaller, as CDMA (the technology Verizon uses) is a dying breed and is rapidly being abandoned worldwide.

I think what Postulant meant was imagine Apple having both a CDMA and GSM iPhone like RIM does with its BlackBerry lineup. Sales would be off the charts. There are many on Verizon that would love this phone but don't want to break their contract because AT&T isn't that good in their area or that they have a really good deal.
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post #10 of 108
7/29/10 at 8:44pm
Apple did this with ONE phone.


ANDROID SECURITY ALERT: Android wallpaper app that steals your data was downloaded by millions

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ANDROID SECURITY ALERT: Android wallpaper app that steals your data was downloaded by millions

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post #11 of 108
7/29/10 at 8:46pm
and checkout Fortune's front page cover. pretty harsh.




ANDROID SECURITY ALERT: Android wallpaper app that steals your data was downloaded by millions

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ANDROID SECURITY ALERT: Android wallpaper app that steals your data was downloaded by millions

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post #12 of 108
7/29/10 at 8:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper View Post


No doubt we'll hear about Apple's profit margins from some of AI's illuminati, and they will have a very good point. But it seems that Motorola is making money again also. Being a US corporation, I'd have thought that would be good news to some of the American posters, but I won't be surprised if it turns out not to be.

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post #13 of 108
7/29/10 at 8:50pm
You haven't anything.....wait for the iPhone 4 to come to Verizon, T-Mobile and Sprint.


ANDROID SECURITY ALERT: Android wallpaper app that steals your data was downloaded by millions

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ANDROID SECURITY ALERT: Android wallpaper app that steals your data was downloaded by millions

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post #14 of 108
7/29/10 at 9:00pm
@ Postulant

There wasn't a comment that I could see accompanying your images so rather than me guess your point, perhaps you could be so kind as to make it in reply to this.

As Dilger puts it... "Motorola reported a phenomenal 600 percent leap in earnings this quarter"

I assume that's mostly down to the Android handsets they're selling but I don't know for sure. So as the Android platform grows, assuming of course that it will and nothing's a given, then so too should Motorola's profitability. It would take some seriously poor decision making to mess that up, I'm thinking. But the game is young...
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post #15 of 108
7/29/10 at 9:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper View Post

@ Postulant

There wasn't a comment that I could see accompanying your images so rather than me guess your point, perhaps you could be so kind as to make it in reply to this.

As Dilger puts it... "Motorola reported a phenomenal 600 percent leap in earnings this quarter"

I assume that's mostly down to the Android handsets they're selling but I don't know for sure. So as the Android platform grows, assuming of course that it will and nothing's a given, then so too should Motorola's profitability. It would take some seriously poor decision making to mess that up, I'm thinking. But the game is young...

I think the point he was making is with the arrows on both companies. The images are directly taken from Wikipedia and show Moto on the way down and Apple on the way up.

Only problem is that if you're not careful you can be on the way down..... again. Sometimes Apple's arrogance can rub the public the wrong way.
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post #16 of 108
7/29/10 at 9:13pm
This article ignores the real truth. And that is that Android OS devices have been outselling Apple's OIS devices for the last 3 months. Apple is now in a solid 3rd place for smartphone sales. You may say you need to compare one phone to one phone. But that is one of Apple's weaknesses. The iphone will soon go the way of the MAC which struggles to get 5% of the market.
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post #17 of 108
7/29/10 at 9:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerofTruth View Post

I think the point he was making is with the arrows on both companies. The images are directly taken from Wikipedia and show Moto on the way down and Apple on the way up.

Only problem is that if you're not careful you can be on the way down..... again. Sometimes Apple's arrogance can rub the public the wrong way.

OK. I get the picture. Perhaps he feels that Motorola won't be able to reverse the trend and become a growing enterprise even with the success so far of its Android handsets. Could be, but as I pointed out in my reply, it would take some poor management indeed to not get a lift from Android's growth. Perhaps if they can't turn that to their advantage, they don't deserve to succeed?

I really don't see Apple suffering any significant reverse in the near term. Apple is a highly profitable corporation with a massive cash horde and large margins. That might change when SJ is no longer at the helm, but that's another debate I think.
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post #18 of 108
7/29/10 at 9:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by davestall View Post

This article ignores the real truth. And that is that Android OS devices have been outselling Apple's OIS devices for the last 3 months. Apple is now in a solid 3rd place for smartphone sales. You may say you need to compare one phone to one phone. But that is one of Apple's weaknesses. The iphone will soon go the way of the MAC which struggles to get 5% of the market.

I would hardly say the Mac is struggling. Apple has consistently outperformed any manufacture in the market and posted record profits on Mac sales. Sometimes it's not about being the biggest company. It's all bull that one company has to dominate to be successful. Apple has proven that you can be successful, relevant and profitable without being the biggest company in their market.
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post #19 of 108
7/29/10 at 9:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by davestall View Post

This article ignores the real truth. And that is that Android OS devices have been outselling Apple's OIS devices for the last 3 months.

Not that I dont believe you, nor would is it unexpected that a free OS that can used on any manufacturers HW would have a higher marketshare of an OS tied to a single vendor, but Id like to see some numbers showing "Android OS devices have been outselling Apple's OIS devices

Quote:
Apple is now in a solid 3rd place for smartphone sales.

The reports I keep reading is that Apple is #1 in smartphone sales. They make more profit than any other handset vendor (not just smartphone vendor) on the planet, and they did that in under two years from entering the market.

Quote:
You may say you need to compare one phone to one phone. But that is one of Apple's weaknesses. The iphone will soon go the way of the MAC which struggles to get 5% of the market.

No one is comparing "one phone to one phone, they are comparing vendor to vendor, the only real measure that makes sense here. You say its Apples weakness that they dont license their OS to any and all who want it yet here they are with more profit than any other PC vendor.

How about them Apples?

Youve also failed to notice that Motorola has finally been able to turn a profit after continuous loses by focuses on a single better product instead of going after marketshare. We can look at Nokia and LG as other examples that will have to follow Apples footsteps or risk fading away.

LG sold 2% more phones over last year but had record loses. Market share isnt keeping their investors or employees warm at night.
http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...artphones.html
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post #20 of 108
7/29/10 at 9:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by davestall View Post

This article ignores the real truth. And that is that Android OS devices have been outselling Apple's OIS devices for the last 3 months. Apple is now in a solid 3rd place for smartphone sales. You may say you need to compare one phone to one phone. But that is one of Apple's weaknesses. The iphone will soon go the way of the MAC which struggles to get 5% of the market.

I don't know where you get your figures from, but even though there might be more units sold in the last 3 months, they don't reflect the profit made from those sales as shown by Motorola's and Verizon's reports. Verizon lost money, and Motorola has sold more units, but compared to what? The big push was the buy one get one free by Motorola. That is where the real momentum was, just like when they practically gave away Razor phones. In the end though it hurt them, like whoring out computers practically killed Dell.
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post #21 of 108
7/29/10 at 9:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerofTruth View Post

I don't know where you get your figures from, but even though there might be more units sold in the last 3 months, they don't reflect the profit made from those sales as shown by Motorola's and Verizon's reports. Verizon lost money, and Motorola has sold more units, but compared to what? The big push was the buy one get one free by Motorola. That is where the real momentum was, just like when they practically gave away Razor phones. In the end though it hurt them, like whoring out computers practically killed Dell.

I don’t get why some posters think marketshare is the Holy Grail of success, as if Apple didn’t have a choice to create their own OS for their own HW, as opposed to Dell, HP, Moto, and others who simply don’t have the chops to do it. Additionally, MS’ biggest nightmare of the 1990s was Apple finally giving into the PC vendors and licensing their OS which would have made it impossible for MS to sell at inflated prices and shrunk their stock overnight and their marketshare thereafter. Of course, this would have killed Apple’s core focus on selling HW, so it was never a real possibility.
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post #22 of 108
7/29/10 at 9:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper View Post

OK. I get the picture. Perhaps he feels that Motorola won't be able to reverse the trend and become a growing enterprise even with the success so far of its Android handsets. Could be, but as I pointed out in my reply, it would take some poor management indeed to not get a lift from Android's growth. Perhaps if they can't turn that to their advantage, they don't deserve to succeed?

I really don't see Apple suffering any significant reverse in the near term. Apple is a highly profitable corporation with a massive cash horde and large margins. That might change when SJ is no longer at the helm, but that's another debate I think.

The problem is that Motorola hitches their wagon to someone else. They tried Apple early this decade and refused to listen to Apple's engineers and we got the ROKKR. Remember that POS? They had the nerve to get upset and blame Apple for that turd. Then they tried making their phones smaller and I had a SLIVR which broke in less than a year. Now they hitched their wagon to Verizon who helped Motorola build a phone to hurt Apple out of spite. After giving one away with each sale, the market has gotten better for Android devices, so they are out of Zune country and can be taken seriously. The issue now, is that the devices are marginally better in some aspects and that won't get people who spent good money on iOS apps to all of a sudden switch. The network might, but I think to give Apple some serious thought to finally ship a Verizon phone would take a new network that would be in place, not just talked about.

Your last paragraph could have had Microsoft's name in place of Apple's 10 years ago or less. See what I mean about things changing rapidly if you aren't careful?
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post #23 of 108
7/29/10 at 9:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerofTruth View Post

The problem is that Motorola hitches their wagon to someone else. They tried Apple early this decade and refused to listen to Apple's engineers and we got the ROKKR. Remember that POS? They had the nerve to get upset and blame Apple for that turd. Then they tried making their phones smaller and I had a SLIVR which broke in less than a year. Now they hitched their wagon to Verizon who helped Motorola build a phone to hurt Apple out of spite. After giving one away with each sale, the market has gotten better for Android devices, so they are out of Zune country and can be taken seriously. The issue now, is that the devices are marginally better in some aspects and that won't get people who spent good money on iOS apps to all of a sudden switch. The network might, but I think to give Apple some serious thought to finally ship a Verizon phone would take a new network that would be in place, not just talked about.

Your last paragraph could have had Microsoft's name in place of Apple's 10 years ago or less. See what I mean about things changing rapidly if you aren't careful?

Well said and I agree. Apple just does not have a history of 'accommodating' old technology....I would be very surprised if they produce a Verzon phone. I think they will wait till Verizon and China, for that matter, catch up. Apple is struggling to meet demand as it is. But then again what do I know...I decided to get into residential real estate and within 3 years we've had the biggest decline in value since the depression! Alas, amiss, afoot.. But as the late, great Doris Day used to say, 'que so what, so what!'

Best
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post #24 of 108
7/29/10 at 9:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by davestall View Post

This article ignores the real truth. And that is that Android OS devices have been outselling Apple's OIS devices for the last 3 months. Apple is now in a solid 3rd place for smartphone sales. You may say you need to compare one phone to one phone. But that is one of Apple's weaknesses. The iphone will soon go the way of the MAC which struggles to get 5% of the market.

I don't think it ignores the truth.

It's an article about hardware sales of Apple and Motorola phones, and as it turns out Apple sells more phones than Motorola. There is nothing more to it than that.

It's not try to compare iOS to Android, misleading title notwithstanding.
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post #25 of 108
7/29/10 at 10:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I dont get why some posters think marketshare is the Holy Grail of success, as if Apple didnt have a choice to create their own OS for their own HW, as opposed to Dell, HP, Moto, and others who simply dont have the chops to do it. Additionally, MS biggest nightmare of the 1990s was Apple finally giving into the PC vendors and licensing their OS which would have made it impossible for MS to sell at inflated prices and shrunk their stock overnight and their marketshare thereafter. Of course, this would have killed Apples core focus on selling HW, so it was never a real possibility.

OK, if Apple wants to be a niche company forever; with 95% of the public using other products so be it. That is what Apple is destined to be with their current philosophy of one highly restricted size fits all. Thats what happened with desktop, it is what will happen with mobile.

Apple's gadgets (not macs) is what is keeping the ship afloat. Once Apple looses the mobile war; the ship will once again take on water, and I doubt Bill Gates will be around to save it from bankruptcy this time.
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post #26 of 108
7/29/10 at 10:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I dont get why some posters think marketshare is the Holy Grail of success, as if Apple didnt have a choice to create their own OS for their own HW, as opposed to Dell, HP, Moto, and others who simply dont have the chops to do it. Additionally, MS biggest nightmare of the 1990s was Apple finally giving into the PC vendors and licensing their OS which would have made it impossible for MS to sell at inflated prices and shrunk their stock overnight and their marketshare thereafter. Of course, this would have killed Apples core focus on selling HW, so it was never a real possibility.

That's interesting that you brought up licensing Apple's OS. As I recall it was Motorola who made a real turd of a Mac clone and tried to cannibalize sales from Apple. I had to fix a couple and they ended up taking one back and leaving one because they just didn't care anymore about them. They had the nerve to blame Apple for the reason that platform failed. Some of the other clone manufactures actually made faster Macs cheaper than Apple. This was at a time when Apple made to many models of Macs that overlapped with each other, like a Buick and Olds. If Steve Jobs didn't change the terms of the license, Apple would have died a slow death. So, he changed the amount that Apple would charge and they balked so he ended it after the current deal expired.
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post #27 of 108
7/29/10 at 10:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by davestall View Post

OK, if Apple wants to be a niche company forever; with 95% of the public using other products so be it. That is what Apple is destined to be with their current philosophy of one highly restricted size fits all. Thats what happened with desktop, it is what will happen with mobile.

Apple's gadgets (not macs) is what is keeping the ship afloat. Once Apple looses the mobile war; the ship will once again take on water, and I doubt Bill Gates will be around to save it from bankruptcy this time.

Apple is the most valuable tech company the world, and the 2nd most valuable company in the world and you can actually called them a "niche company? I can see I have been interacting with another troll. Welcome to my Ignore List!
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post #28 of 108
7/29/10 at 10:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I don’t get why some posters think marketshare is the Holy Grail of success, as if Apple didn’t have a choice to create their own OS for their own HW, as opposed to Dell, HP, Moto, and others who simply don’t have the chops to do it. Additionally, MS’ biggest nightmare of the 1990s was Apple finally giving into the PC vendors and licensing their OS which would have made it impossible for MS to sell at inflated prices and shrunk their stock overnight and their marketshare thereafter. Of course, this would have killed Apple’s core focus on selling HW, so it was never a real possibility.


Solipsism, you continue to amaze me. And I mean that in a most complimentary way. You always get right to the heart of the matter!

This holly grail you mention is so dominant because it is the 'easy' way for so many incompetent CEO's to obfuscate their short comings. It is, by far, so much more difficult to research, develop, design and bring to market innovative products than it is to produce and sell crap products at low prices.

It's also why 90% of the companies fail after the first generation that starts the company dies. Ford, Coke, GE, IBM, etc. are the lucky ones I guess.

I think of it as the Walmart model. In the American consumer's psyche, if a blender sells for $13 but only lasts 3 months, somehow that is better 'value' than, say a Braun that costs $60 and last 10 years.

American companies are striving to be Coca Cola...the largest beverage company in the world and what do they sell? A cheap crap drink. Or McDonald's the largest restaurant chain in the world. And what to they sell? Crap food. Or Microsoft, the largest SW manufacturer in the world and what to they make? Crap. GM? Crap, China? Crap. Goldman Sachs? Crap. Bank of America? Crap. DEll? Crap. HP? Crap. Sony? Crap. Nokia? Crap. Samsung? Crap. LG, Crap. BP? Crap. Adobe? Crap. Fox? Crap. MSNBC? Crap. Phillip Morris? Death Crap!

All these companies have 'market share.' How do their executives and share holders sleep at night?


Only a few stand apart. Apple, Honda, Toyota are all I can think of right now!

Edit: 1Password, DropBox, Paralells, Vokl, PDFPen, PDF Shrink are looking pretty good right now!
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post #29 of 108
7/29/10 at 10:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by davestall View Post

Apple's gadgets (not macs) is what is keeping the ship afloat. Once Apple looses the mobile war; the ship will once again take on water, and I doubt Bill Gates will be around to save it from bankruptcy this time.

Umm, no. Actually their second quarter sales reported last week said that they sold 33% more Macs than the year before. So it's not just their "gadgets", people ARE buying more Macs.

I think your argument is 16 years too late. Next you will be calling Apple "beleagured" .

Here's something to think about. If so many people want Android phones, why are they so readily available and the "reception challenged" iPhone 4 is hard to find with people actually buying them, not exchanging them. Plus don't you think it's insulting to the customer to announce a Droid 2 just days after shipping a Droid X?
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post #30 of 108
7/29/10 at 10:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerofTruth View Post

The problem is that Motorola hitches their wagon to someone else. They tried Apple early this decade and refused to listen to Apple's engineers and we got the ROKKR. Remember that POS? They had the nerve to get upset and blame Apple for that turd. Then they tried making their phones smaller and I had a SLIVR which broke in less than a year. Now they hitched their wagon to Verizon who helped Motorola build a phone to hurt Apple out of spite. After giving one away with each sale, the market has gotten better for Android devices, so they are out of Zune country and can be taken seriously. The issue now, is that the devices are marginally better in some aspects and that won't get people who spent good money on iOS apps to all of a sudden switch. The network might, but I think to give Apple some serious thought to finally ship a Verizon phone would take a new network that would be in place, not just talked about.

Your last paragraph could have had Microsoft's name in place of Apple's 10 years ago or less. See what I mean about things changing rapidly if you aren't careful?

I understand what you're saying, and agree with it to some extent. But hitching themselves to somebody else's wagon is presumably better in the short term for an ailing corporate than taking a gamble on something they will have to build from scratch. I doubt their shareholders would accept that sort of risk.

Even Apple, who made some extremely difficult decisions in the 90's, borrowed heavily in a tech sense in order to survive then ultimately prosper.

I don't see Apple users switching. There's a huge market out there inhabited by people who don't know they need a smartphone yet but when they wise up, they'll go to the most attractive platform/brand for them. That's how it should be and I for one am glad there's more than one game in town, even if my phone is now an iPhone.

Who knows - in the future there could be a compelling reason to look at Android, or RIM, or WinPhone something, or whatever Nokia's OS will be. Exciting times.
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post #31 of 108
7/29/10 at 10:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper View Post

Dilger won't do that though - his whole reason for being is to knock Apple's opposition and try to make Apple look good. So he cherrypicks the data that works for his agenda.

He's absolutely correct about the comparison he draws with Motorola.

It's just not convenient to point out that Android as a platform was second behind RIM and Apple has slipped to third. And he certainly won't publish the fact that the iPhone sold just slightly more than one third of the smartphones that Nokia did in that quarter. And that Apple's share of the smartphone market has dropped from 17% to 14% over consecutive quarters. Or that Apple also sold fewer than the 11.2 million smartphones that RIM did.

No doubt we'll hear about Apple's profit margins from some of AI's illuminati, and they will have a very good point. But it seems that Motorola is making money again also. Being a US corporation, I'd have thought that would be good news to some of the American posters, but I won't be surprised if it turns out not to be.

Get off your high horse. AI has posted all those statistics before, when they were released. They had charts showing the comparison of Nokia, RIM and Android with the iPhone, etc. etc. The news today is about Motorola, so that's what's posted today. Do you need a history every time there's a new story?

If you want eveything mentioned in every story, then it should be noted that the amount of revenues and profit Apple earns on the iPhone is orders of magnitude higher than the amount earned by all those other companies. Most of the Android phones have been sold as "Buy one, get one free" since they were first released (I recently saw Motorola selling two Android phones for $99). Shouldn't the sales figures take that into account, and disregard the free phones?
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post #32 of 108
7/29/10 at 10:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by davestall View Post

Apple's gadgets (not macs) is what is keeping the ship afloat. Once Apple looses the mobile war; the ship will once again take on water, and I doubt Bill Gates will be around to save it from bankruptcy this time.

Man, it's going to be frustrating to be perpetually wrong.

Talk about drawing false conclusions. I suppose the fact that Apple has more cash on hand and is set to pass Microsoft in revenue means nothing.

I mean, business isn't about profit or customer satisfaction - market share and raw sales numbers are all that matters right? Never mind if you loose money on each sale - you can make it up on volume!
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post #33 of 108
7/29/10 at 10:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

Well said and I agree. Apple just does not have a history of 'accommodating' old technology....I would be very surprised if they produce a Verzon phone. I think they will wait till Verizon and China, for that matter, catch up. Apple is struggling to meet demand as it is. But then again what do I know...I decided to get into residential real estate and within 3 years we've had the biggest decline in value since the depression! Alas, amiss, afoot.. But as the late, great Doris Day used to say, 'que so what, so what!'

Best

Thanks! Verizon is squawking about a new 4g network or "LTE", but has no firm dates or places where it will be. Just that by 2013 it will be nationwide. Any bets that Apple might have a phone for them at that time?

As for your choice in real estate, I did that too back in the 80's in PHX and when it tanked I got involved with computers, so just wait for your silver lining, it's coming.
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post #34 of 108
7/29/10 at 10:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerofTruth View Post

Thanks! Verizon is squawking about a new 4g network or "LTE", but has no firm dates or places where it will be. Just that by 2013 it will be nationwide. Any bets that Apple might have a phone for them at that time?

As for your choice in real estate, I did that too back in the 80's in PHX and when it tanked I got involved with computers, so just wait for your silver lining, it's coming.

I'm in PHX too. Fountain Hills to be exact. And thanks for the vote of confidence. Hard to believe that five states brought the world economy to its knees. Just my luck, Arizona happens to be the epicenter!

I think I will have to go back to my original line of work, a 'door-to-door lingerie' salesman! Just kidding!

Best

Yep as soon as Verizon upgrades...Apple will be there for sure! Unless Verizon steps on their collective d*cks again!
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post #35 of 108
7/29/10 at 10:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper View Post

I understand what you're saying, and agree with it to some extent. But hitching themselves to somebody else's wagon is presumably better in the short term for an ailing corporate than taking a gamble on something they will have to build from scratch. I doubt their shareholders would accept that sort of risk.

True, but Motorola has a tendency to bite the hand that feeds it. Eventually they will have some issue that will frost up their relationship with Verizon. Just give it time. Between Verizon, Motorola, Google and HTC there will be some daggers in backs soon enough.
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post #36 of 108
7/29/10 at 10:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerofTruth View Post

True, but Motorola has a tendency to bite the hand that feeds it. Eventually they will have some issue that will frost up their relationship with Verizon. Just give it time. Between Verizon, Motorola, Google and HTC there will be some daggers in backs soon enough.

Righto...the senior management of the companies mentioned above all have demonstrated they have more foreskin than foresight. Especially, in the last couple of years or so.
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post #37 of 108
7/29/10 at 10:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post

Get off your high horse. AI has posted all those statistics before, when they were released.

If you'd like to post the link to where "AI has posted all those statistics before, when they were released." for this 2nd quarter referenced in Dilger's puff piece above, then I would appreciate it. Thanks in advance.

Dilger chose to take some positive news about Motorola's performance and spin it into an attack, belittling their handset sales by comparing them to Apple's superior figures and tying it all together with the reminder that Motorola is the biggest Android handset maker thus far. All nicely packaged to do a hack job on Motorola and Android in the one disingenuous load of Fanboy-Exciter pap.

As I said, he cherrypicks to make Apple look good while attacking Apple's opposition. Hardly fair and balanced reporting that one might expect on AI's "news" page. So I'll ride my "high horse" as you put it, as long as AI gives Dilger carte blanche to dump his cr@p here.

And you get to insult me into the bargain. Seems like a deal. Or you could do a solipsism and just add me to your ignore list. No skin off my nose.

So you didn't like the figures I posted? The truth shall set you free.
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post #38 of 108
7/29/10 at 11:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by davestall View Post

OK, if Apple wants to be a niche company forever; with 95% of the public using other products so be it. That is what Apple is destined to be with their current philosophy of one highly restricted size fits all. Thats what happened with desktop, it is what will happen with mobile.

Apple's gadgets (not macs) is what is keeping the ship afloat. Once Apple looses the mobile war; the ship will once again take on water, and I doubt Bill Gates will be around to save it from bankruptcy this time.

I think "niche" might be the wrong word.

I also think the prediction of 5% market share is too small. I'm thinking more like 10%, maybe more (iOS definitely appeals to more people than OSX).

Assuming they eventually settle into the portable computing market at 10% market share, and that "niche" (if you want to call it that) is the premium market where users pay top dollar for products, upgrade regularly and are more likely to pay for content and services... is that really a bad thing?

The alternative is to be in the race to the bottom and trade healthy profit for market share. I just can't see Apple doing that.
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post #39 of 108
7/29/10 at 11:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I don’t get why some posters think marketshare is the Holy Grail of success, as if Apple didn’t have a choice to create their own OS for their own HW, as opposed to Dell, HP, Moto, and others who simply don’t have the chops to do it.

I'm glad the others didn't all choose to go out and create new OSes. How many different OSes do we need? We want competition but what we don't want is a large number of small platforms that are unable to get any momentum behind them. Between iOS, Android, WinMo, WebOS, MeeGo, Symbian, and whatever RiM's OS is call we already have more than enough platforms. A bunch of Additional OSes with no more than a few percent market share each is not going to attract developers or drive competition.
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post #40 of 108
7/29/10 at 11:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper View Post

If you'd like to post the link to where "AI has posted all those statistics before, when they were released." for this 2nd quarter referenced in Dilger's puff piece above, then I would appreciate it. Thanks in advance.

Dilger chose to take some positive news about Motorola's performance and spin it into an attack, belittling their handset sales by comparing them to Apple's superior figures and tying it all together with the reminder that Motorola is the biggest Android handset maker thus far. All nicely packaged to do a hack job on Motorola and Android in the one disingenuous load of Fanboy-Exciter pap.

As I said, he cherrypicks to make Apple look good while attacking Apple's opposition. Hardly fair and balanced reporting that one might expect on AI's "news" page. So I'll ride my "high horse" as you put it, as long as AI gives Dilger carte blanche to dump his cr@p here.

I'm not a big fan of some of Dilger's news either. I will give him credit that in the past he was spot on on his analysis of Apple and the competition, but that changed shortly after the iPhone came out.
He was more critical of other companies and had a blind spot when it came to Apple's shortcomings. In my book that's just as bad as bashing Apple for no good reason. He hasn't yet turned into a Paul Thurrot, but his articles swing dangerously close to being more fanboi nonsense than objective reporting. On the other hand it's hard to find objective reporting anywhere on the net anymore.

It could be that he hasn't forgotten how Motorola was one of the reasons why Apple was hamstrung in the 90's. Between them and IBM lying to Apple on PPC clock speeds and Apple trying to make other changes to their hardware to be able to be competitive with processors that didn't make enough "umph" to make the market notice. So he could have an axe to grind with Motorola and their new ads aren't helping them win friends over that are Apple users.
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