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So much for the Dutch radical right...

post #1 of 45
Thread Starter 
Some of you may know that there are election in Holland in a week or so. A populist candidate with quite right leanings was just assassinated. Pim Fortuyn was shot several times in the head while leaving a radio program just moments ago.

It is absolutely unbelievable what some people will do.
Registered: Dec 1998
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post #2 of 45
Thread Starter 
They are now reporting that Mr. Fortuyn is dead.
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post #3 of 45
[quote]Originally posted by wormboy:
<strong>They are now reporting that Mr. Fortuyn is dead.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Is anyone taking responsibility?
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post #4 of 45
The peaceful leftists, of course.
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post #5 of 45
Thread Starter 
Now I hear that they have the gunman in custody. No report as to motivation yet, but Fortuyn was outspoken on a number of issues. He referred to the Muslim nation as culturally a thousand years behind Europe. He wanted to close the boarders to immigrants. He wanted to cut education funding and pull computers out of school. He wanted to cut health care spending. He was an outspoken Homosexual. And he represented probably the most unpredictable force in the upcoming elections.
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post #6 of 45
[quote] The peaceful leftists, of course. <hr></blockquote>

what?? I read this over and over again, and this must be the most stupid reply I've ever seen... ASSHOLE!!!
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post #7 of 45
Sapi, a little wound up are we?
post #8 of 45
no Outsider, but I think it's plain dumb to make a comment like that.

It only happened just a few hours ago, and I'm sure americans wouldn't really appriciate jokes just a few hours after your recent tragedy, 9/11. You see your tragedy as an attack on democracy, we see this the same, one week before the elections.

This man represented a new party, and was most likely to become the biggest party.

(for the record; he wouldn't have had my vote)
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post #9 of 45
He would have had mine. His LPF still will.

Finally somebody that spoke out for the people of the Netherlands in stead of hiding photographs from the Dutch public.

The democracy died today and "Paars" has as much blood on their hands as the guy that did it.

As for the so called stupid remark by Groverat, The Netherlands is a country were extreme left has always been tolerated and extreme right has become a taboo. Extreme left has been as violent as extreme right in the past but never got outcasted in the same way.

This is what it has lead to. I hope "Paars", de lefty media in Holland lead by Mr. Van Dam and the so called tolerant establishment is proud of itself.

Extreme is always wrong but I think the Dutch government can look at it´s own failure and take consequences. It´s the so called successful "Paars" cabinets that have created this environment of intolerance in an, otherwise, very tolerant country.

May Pim rest in peace and the guy that did this burn in hell. I´d almost support the dead penalty for undemocratic, terrorist bastards like this.
You cannot conquer Ireland. You cannot extinguish
the Irish passion for freedom. If our deed has not
been sufficient to win freedom, then our children
will win it by a better deed.
Pádraig Pearse

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You cannot conquer Ireland. You cannot extinguish
the Irish passion for freedom. If our deed has not
been sufficient to win freedom, then our children
will win it by a better deed.
Pádraig Pearse

...
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post #10 of 45
Ok ok I just calmed down, and I'm really not going to respond to that rubbish.
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post #11 of 45
and I even think it's a very very funny post you made there, I can't imagine your serious...
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post #12 of 45
[quote]Originally posted by sapi:
<strong>and I even think it's a very very funny post you made there, I can't imagine your serious...</strong><hr></blockquote>

To quote Boudewijn de Groot, well almost quote..

"Wel terusten mijnheer de Minister President" and weltrusten to you to. I hope you wake up tomorrow morning and realise in what kind of democracy you have ended up.

One where it´s only accepted to say what´s popular.
You cannot conquer Ireland. You cannot extinguish
the Irish passion for freedom. If our deed has not
been sufficient to win freedom, then our children
will win it by a better deed.
Pádraig Pearse

...
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You cannot conquer Ireland. You cannot extinguish
the Irish passion for freedom. If our deed has not
been sufficient to win freedom, then our children
will win it by a better deed.
Pádraig Pearse

...
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post #13 of 45
Jean Marie Le Pen: "When I become president I will put all refugees and immigrants on a boat to England."

Pim Fortuyn: "I think we should legalise all illegal immigrants that are currently in this country. That way we can try to get them out of the criminal circuit and black labour. We should then review our immigration politics because Holland is the 6th largest country in the EU when it comes down to population. However, it is the 13th largest in size. We have to cut down on that."

Yes, very much a same kind of man with the same kind of ideas. I´m being sarcastic.

But there is more.

The leader of one of the biggest parties in The Netherlands, the VVD, said only five or six years ago: "I think we should stimulate intergration of immigrants in this country. We should stimulate people to mix and not stick to their own. That way, and that way only, can we become a truly multi cultural environment."

He gained a lot of votes for the next poll by saying that. Then the parties on the left, and the extreme left, fell all over him and helped by the media called him a racist. I´m sorry but those are not the words of a racist. Nor are the words of Mr. Fortuyn. A racist is too much of a bigot to want to have anything to do with anyone or anything foreign.

Now Mr. Fortuyn is dead. Because the media made him look like a threat to the country. Made him look like a wanabee dictator. Let´s not forget that he had been attacked before. That´s how tolerant a country The Netherlands is.

It is so in love with its self assumed tollerance that anyone who dares to go against any of those ideas of tollerance will be branded a racist or a bigot. To the point where they can be murdered.

An environment the Dutch government and media have created over the last 10 - 15 years.

I´ve just read that the guy who killed him was probably an environmental activist. Aren´t humans part of mother earth´s nature? Shouldn´t this guy respect human life? It once again goes to show how hypocrite the left and extreme left is.

Is there a precedent on the extreme right by the way? Has any left politician ever been killed by a neo nazi?

The reaction in Holland was "Thank God it wasn´t a foreigner that did it"

Of course it wasn´t a foreigner! It´s not foreigners that cause the feelings against immigrants. It´s the government and the ridiculous tollerance of the extreme left. The problem The Netherlands has is not it´s foreign population, it makes the country more attractive if nothing else. It´s the so called tollerance that only goes for the sheep that follow.

The extreme left - tollerance through intollerance.

A few reactions to the murder from the so called victims of this "racist"

Imam Abdullah Hasselhoef - One of the leaders of Islam in The Netherlands:

"Fortuyn hurt a lot of Muslims with his ideas about the Islam. However, I´m more shocked about the visciousness with which the media and politicians tried to make him look like a monster or a racist"

The government of the Dutch Antillies:

"In a democratic system like our Kingdom there can´t be any room for such a disgusting and dispicable act"

These are the words of the people that should have feared this "racist".

The only precedent I can find for this in The Netherlands is the murder of William of Orange in 1584.

[ 05-07-2002: Message edited by: macvasco ]</p>
You cannot conquer Ireland. You cannot extinguish
the Irish passion for freedom. If our deed has not
been sufficient to win freedom, then our children
will win it by a better deed.
Pádraig Pearse

...
Reply
You cannot conquer Ireland. You cannot extinguish
the Irish passion for freedom. If our deed has not
been sufficient to win freedom, then our children
will win it by a better deed.
Pádraig Pearse

...
Reply
post #14 of 45
I posted this over at MacNN, but will post it here also:
---
I'm from the Netherlands and I would like to make some things a bit more clearly. Some of the people here really don't quite know where they're talking about or are not informed enough.
The media has realy sketched him as a dangerous, intolerant and ultra-right person in countrys as England and the US. They compare him to Le Pen etc. This is not fair.

He was a very intelligent and well educated person, had some very good ideas about political problems and has allready solved some, like the so called 'OV-card' , a yearly card for students to make free use of the public transport, which is a huge succes.

I saw lots of interviews on TV with him in the Netherlands and he's extremely honest in everything he says and talks in a understandable language which is finally recognizable for the Dutch citizens. Which you cannot say about lots of other politicians, who don't actually say what they mean. This man represented the thoughts of lots of Dutch people and was finally able to them those thoughts public discussible.. until yesterday 6 may. One day after our national freedom day. 6 May. A dark day for democracy in the Netherlands and Europe.

He was dangerous for the other political partys. Why? He would have made an glorious victory on May 15, our electionday. It would have caused a big revolution in Dutch politics... but (unfortunately) that is out of the question now
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post #15 of 45
[quote]Originally posted by /\\ldie:
<strong>I posted this over at MacNN, but will post it here also:
---
I'm from the Netherlands and I would like to make some things a bit more clearly. Some of the people here really don't quite know where they're talking about or are not informed enough.
The media has realy sketched him as a dangerous, intolerant and ultra-right person in countrys as England and the US. They compare him to Le Pen etc. This is not fair.

He was a very intelligent and well educated person, had some very good ideas about political problems and has allready solved some, like the so called 'OV-card' , a yearly card for students to make free use of the public transport, which is a huge succes.

I saw lots of interviews on TV with him in the Netherlands and he's extremely honest in everything he says and talks in a understandable language which is finally recognizable for the Dutch citizens. Which you cannot say about lots of other politicians, who don't actually say what they mean. This man represented the thoughts of lots of Dutch people and was finally able to them those thoughts public discussible.. until yesterday 6 may. One day after our national freedom day. 6 May. A dark day for democracy in the Netherlands and Europe.

He was dangerous for the other political partys. Why? He would have made an glorious victory on May 15, our electionday. It would have caused a big revolution in Dutch politics... but (unfortunately) that is out of the question now</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well said mate.

A funny thing about the OV card is that one of the biggest criticism the other parties have to his ideas is that he doesn´t want to increase the spending on education. Wasn´t it Minister Ritzen who started cutting on grants and this card in the first place? It´s easy to increase the spending if first you cut it to an unreasonable level. Anyway, his point, or better yet his parties point, was that in the welfare sector as well as education we should relocate the money more efficiently and then see who needs what.

His party will win and the change will come. It´s his party you should vote for. Although I admit it´s lost it´s face for now. But not voting for him now will make his murderer succesful. Let´s just keep him the dispicable excuse for a human being that he is. Let´s not make him a winner.
You cannot conquer Ireland. You cannot extinguish
the Irish passion for freedom. If our deed has not
been sufficient to win freedom, then our children
will win it by a better deed.
Pádraig Pearse

...
Reply
You cannot conquer Ireland. You cannot extinguish
the Irish passion for freedom. If our deed has not
been sufficient to win freedom, then our children
will win it by a better deed.
Pádraig Pearse

...
Reply
post #16 of 45
This whole thing is just so sad. It's Ironic that on May 5th there was a TV program here in Denmark in which a section was devoted to him. He came across as intelligent man that spoke language people could understand. Sure he was outspoken but nothing he said in this TV interview would rank as extreme right views, which should rather be called "national socialistic" views and are often wrongly related to as "right" wing politics.

He said in this interview that all major religions in the world except Islam had gone through an 'educational phase' where the Islamic countries were still living in the "middle centuries". Nowhere did he the condemn Muslims as such. This is in strong contrast to the "National [social]istic" party here in Denmark who's members hardly open their mouth not to condemn ethnic minority groups living in this country
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post #17 of 45
Thread Starter 
Well, I agree with many of the sentiments of what you two have said regarding Mr. Fortuyn. However, I think it would have been a very bad thing for Holland had he come to power. Mr. Fortuyn may indeed speak a language that many Dutch people understand, but that language is not English. Although he did speak very poor English, I mean this to be more of a metaphor for his foreign policy. Essentially, he had none. He portfolio of policies was incomplete and internally inconsistent. He was big on domestic issues, but pretty much vacuous otherwise. For these reasons, had he come to power in nine days, I expect his reign would have been a short one. I personally don't believe he would have won too many seats anyway.
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post #18 of 45
I would not call him a racist either or similar to LePen, Haider or Kjærsgaard. I would disagree with him on a near every point but it is important not to call everybody you disagrees with names and water-down definitions.

So these sentences is WRONG and only add to this black and white view on the word. By linking environmentalist (what is it based on? a few brochures in his flat or is he known as an active "friends of the earth" activist or...?) = left winged = "THE" left. We on´t know shit about this guy yet but already you are blaming the left for this? <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />

An just to clarify: I am not part of the left (at least not how it is understood here in Europe as meaning socialist or worse)

[quote]
I´ve just read that the guy who killed him was probably an environmental activist. Aren´t humans part of mother earth´s nature? Shouldn´t this guy respect human life? It once again goes to show how hypocrite the left and extreme left is. <hr></blockquote>
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post #19 of 45
[quote]Originally posted by sapi:
<strong>Ok ok I just calmed down, and I'm really not going to respond to that rubbish.</strong><hr></blockquote>

So you can respond to baseless quips on "right wing" behavior but not baseless quips on left wing behavior?

This is the kind of one-way open mindedness that allows me to have very little respect for the left.
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post #20 of 45
No offense, but it sounds likes there is some pretty screwed up politics in some European countries right now. Ultra Left vs Ultra Right, assasination, blatant slandering, and missinformation campaings to the media.
Not that we are perfect either, but we have never had all those things going at the same time.
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post #21 of 45
[quote]Originally posted by wormboy:
<strong>Well, I agree with many of the sentiments of what you two have said regarding Mr. Fortuyn. However, I think it would have been a very bad thing for Holland had he come to power. Mr. Fortuyn may indeed speak a language that many Dutch people understand, but that language is not English. Although he did speak very poor English, I mean this to be more of a metaphor for his foreign policy. Essentially, he had none. He portfolio of policies was incomplete and internally inconsistent. He was big on domestic issues, but pretty much vacuous otherwise. For these reasons, had he come to power in nine days, I expect his reign would have been a short one. I personally don't believe he would have won too many seats anyway.</strong><hr></blockquote>

But that´s the point mate. The Dutch people want to a prime minister who does what is right for the country for a change. In stead of what is right and ok with everybody else.

For example: RDM, I think they were called, was a ship wharf in Rotterdam. They used to build ships. About 5 or 6 years ago they got an order from Taiwan for 8 submarines. China then told the Dutch government that, since they see Taiwan as a revolting provence, the diplomatic relationship between China and Holland would suffer if the deal went through. In the end the Dutch government made RDM refuse the order. RDM is now bankrupt and over 150 people lost their jobs.

They should have told China to f off and mind their own business. What about the relationship Holland has with Taiwan?

The people in Holland are sick of the spineless, backhanded government that is "paars". That´s where this guy got his votes from.

Someone on this board said, in another thread, the responsibility of the government of the United States is, first and foremost, to protect the United States´ interest. That´s spot on. That´s what the Dutch would finally like to see from their government.

As for my blaming the extreme left. It is a fact that this guy was a leftie. I´m not making it up nor is it speculation. He is. Well he thinks he is. In reality he´s a facist who doesn´t think too highly about freedom of speech.
You cannot conquer Ireland. You cannot extinguish
the Irish passion for freedom. If our deed has not
been sufficient to win freedom, then our children
will win it by a better deed.
Pádraig Pearse

...
Reply
You cannot conquer Ireland. You cannot extinguish
the Irish passion for freedom. If our deed has not
been sufficient to win freedom, then our children
will win it by a better deed.
Pádraig Pearse

...
Reply
post #22 of 45
[quote]Originally posted by Falcon:
<strong>No offense, but it sounds likes there is some pretty screwed up politics in some European countries right now. Ultra Left vs Ultra Right, assasination, blatant slandering, and missinformation campaings to the media.
Not that we are perfect either, but we have never had all those things going at the same time.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You´re dead right there mate. I don´t pull punches when I criticize the U.S, because I think it´s justified, but something so undemocratic I would not see possible. It´s not 1963 anymore.
You cannot conquer Ireland. You cannot extinguish
the Irish passion for freedom. If our deed has not
been sufficient to win freedom, then our children
will win it by a better deed.
Pádraig Pearse

...
Reply
You cannot conquer Ireland. You cannot extinguish
the Irish passion for freedom. If our deed has not
been sufficient to win freedom, then our children
will win it by a better deed.
Pádraig Pearse

...
Reply
post #23 of 45
Background information:

I don´t know if this was covered in your respective countries but the Dutch government recently stepped down.

The reason for this was that our Prime Minister was held responsible for the failing of our military in Srebrenica in Bosnia. It also turned out that evidence of what happened there had been hidden and destroyed.

With the Prime Minister the entire cabinet stepped down. Two of the main candidates to become the next Prime Minister of the Netherlands were ministers in that cabinet.

What a joke that would be. They´re too incompetent to be a minister so in turn we make them the leader of our country. Only in the Netherlands people.

Yes, these people lying to the nation and hiding things from the tax payers should lead our country. Not a guy whose thoughts are, at most, controversial.
You cannot conquer Ireland. You cannot extinguish
the Irish passion for freedom. If our deed has not
been sufficient to win freedom, then our children
will win it by a better deed.
Pádraig Pearse

...
Reply
You cannot conquer Ireland. You cannot extinguish
the Irish passion for freedom. If our deed has not
been sufficient to win freedom, then our children
will win it by a better deed.
Pádraig Pearse

...
Reply
post #24 of 45
[quote]Originally posted by Falcon:
<strong>No offense, but it sounds likes there is some pretty screwed up politics in some European countries right now. Ultra Left vs Ultra Right, assasination, blatant slandering, and missinformation campaings to the media.
Not that we are perfect either, but we have never had all those things going at the same time.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You're right. Instead we have a game of which party can be as centrist as possible without alienating their radical constituents (labor unions, big business, the psycho christian right) that fund their campaigns. At least we have some form for campaign finance reform for next election.

It is definitely is a sad day for Democracy. Hopefully there will be other candidates that are allowed to speak their mind and gain significant public support. In that respect, you guys are way ahead of us in the US.

Our system is ridiculously corrupt. Hell, the national debates are controlled by the two major parties. The debates are vital to getting the attention of the public. However, you need 15% in the previous election in order to gain entrance to the debates. Well, to gain 15%, you need massive public exposure. To get massive public exposure you need either a wad of cash (like Perot) or a national forum to express their views. Wait, I know a national forum where they can express their views. It's called the debates. Oh wait, they can't participate because they don't have enough public support yet.
post #25 of 45
[quote]Originally posted by Exercise in Frivolity:
<strong>

You're right. Instead we have a game of which party can be as centrist as possible without alienating their radical constituents (labor unions, big business, the psycho christian right) that fund their campaigns. At least we have some form for campaign finance reform for next election.

It is definitely is a sad day for Democracy. Hopefully there will be other candidates that are allowed to speak their mind and gain significant public support. In that respect, you guys are way ahead of us in the US.

Our system is ridiculously corrupt. Hell, the national debates are controlled by the two major parties. The debates are vital to getting the attention of the public. However, you need 15% in the previous election in order to gain entrance to the debates. Well, to gain 15%, you need massive public exposure. To get massive public exposure you need either a wad of cash (like Perot) or a national forum to express their views. Wait, I know a national forum where they can express their views. It's called the debates. Oh wait, they can't participate because they don't have enough public support yet.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Very thoughtful, well laid out, and presented.
post #26 of 45
Our 2 party system is one thing I don't like about US politics.If anything the Dem and Rep parties should be divided into multiple interest parties similar to the Green and Libertarian parties we have now. People should do research into who they vote for instead of looking for the little R or D next to their name.
post #27 of 45
[quote]Originally posted by Exercise in Frivolity:
<strong>

You're right. Instead we have a game of which party can be as centrist as possible without alienating their radical constituents (labor unions, big business, the psycho christian right) that fund their campaigns. At least we have some form for campaign finance reform for next election.

It is definitely is a sad day for Democracy. Hopefully there will be other candidates that are allowed to speak their mind and gain significant public support. In that respect, you guys are way ahead of us in the US.

Our system is ridiculously corrupt. Hell, the national debates are controlled by the two major parties. The debates are vital to getting the attention of the public. However, you need 15% in the previous election in order to gain entrance to the debates. Well, to gain 15%, you need massive public exposure. To get massive public exposure you need either a wad of cash (like Perot) or a national forum to express their views. Wait, I know a national forum where they can express their views. It's called the debates. Oh wait, they can't participate because they don't have enough public support yet.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thanks for this post , i have learned something about US today.
post #28 of 45
[quote]It only happened just a few hours ago, and I'm sure americans wouldn't really appriciate jokes just a few hours after your recent tragedy, 9/11.<hr></blockquote>

1 man killed by someone from his own country.
3000 people killed by foreign terrorists.

Yeah, I'm seeing the connection.

And it WAS "peaceful" leftists that killed him. Just like our "Christian" abortion-doctor killers we had a few years back. Idiots with a political cause, what's wrong with me pointing that out?

I am sorry for Mr. Fortuyn's family.
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post #29 of 45
[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>
And it WAS "peaceful" leftists that killed him. </strong><hr></blockquote>

No it wasn´t.
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post #30 of 45
You're right. Grover should take the word peaceful right out of that sentence.
post #31 of 45
[quote]Originally posted by Anders:
<strong>No it wasn´t.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Interesting, the Dutch government seems to disagree with you. (<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/europe/newsid_1974000/1974453.stm" target="_blank">clicky</a>)

"A Dutch environmental campaigner accused of murdering populist anti-immigration politician Pim Fortuyn has appeared in court and will be held for at least another 10 days."

also of interest...

"The suspect is also reported to be an animal rights activist. He is believed to have acted alone and did not have a gun licence."

[edit]

Note that the word is in quotation marks. The quotation marks are there for a reason, think about it.

[ 05-08-2002: Message edited by: groverat ]</p>
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post #32 of 45
It wasn´t the word peaceful that made me react. It was the rest of the sentence:

[quote]And it WAS leftists that killed him. <hr></blockquote>

First: Enviromentalist != leftwinged. Its common knowledge that there is a correlation between being left winged and being interested in the enviroment. But it really doesn´t have to be so. I know a lot of lefties that doesn´t give a damn about the enviroment and see all talk about enviroment as a way for the capital to keep the working class down. And a lot of enviromentalists isn´t leftwinged. Parts of the national- conservatives here in Europe is VERY occupied with the enviroment. We really don´t know anything about his political preferences and even if he is leftwinged he most likely acted because he is an enviromentalist (or alternatively because he s crasy)

Second: As your quotes say he propably acted alone so why "leftiES"? By saying that you make it sound like it was a whole moment that killed him.
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post #33 of 45
So your two problems are that I:

1) Associated an environmental activist and animal rights activist that killed a far-right politician and leftist philosophy. He's a lefty, sorry if that hurts you in some way, but unless there's a new trend of killing your own representatives that you share beliefs with you haven't thought this through properly.

2) My use of pluralization. (Of course, when this happens on the other side it's "wacko Christians" not "random freak") again:

So he was a lefty and he is only one person. Congratulations on finally grasping the obvious.
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post #34 of 45
[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>So your two problems are that I:

1) Associated an environmental activist and animal rights activist that killed a far-right politician and leftist philosophy. He's a lefty, sorry if that hurts you in some way, but unless there's a new trend of killing your own representatives that you share beliefs with you haven't thought this through properly.

2) My use of pluralization. (Of course, when this happens on the other side it's "wacko Christians" not "random freak") again:

So he was a lefty and he is only one person. Congratulations on finally grasping the obvious.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yup. The lefties did it. Now if only someone would do the same to all the stupid whacko christians...
post #35 of 45
[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>So your two problems are that I:

1) Associated an environmental activist and animal rights activist that killed a far-right politician and leftist philosophy. He's a lefty, sorry if that hurts you in some way, but unless there's a new trend of killing your own representatives that you share beliefs with you haven't thought this through properly.</strong><hr></blockquote>

No sorry. You are wrong. Thats the thing everybody is puzzled about at the moment. He had no connection to the left whatsoever. It is speculated that he may have reacted on some very specific statements by Fortuyn about legalizing hunt, mink farming or something. His only political interest was the enviroment according to the press. Caring fanaticly about the enviroment doesn´t make you left winged. Left winged has something to do with socialism, at least here in europe, and all you have to do is to look at how the east european countries treated the enviroment before 89´ to see that there is no logical connection.

[quote]<strong>2) My use of pluralization. (Of course, when this happens on the other side it's "wacko Christians" not "random freak") again: </strong><hr></blockquote>

I NEVER put people under one hat and label everybody for what individuals do. I dare to find any comment from me where I do that. Look through endless posts about Israel/Palestine and you will find nothing but me putting blame on specific people or limited group. I have more than one time said that most Israelis aren´t as black and white as Mika. And you will never see me arguing that because of the higher rates of shootings in US "all americans are gunslinging idiots". Thats also the reason why I haven´t posted in the "USA Isolationism?" thread.
Go read Norbert Elias "The Established and the Outsiders" why this is so importent in a argument.
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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post #36 of 45
[quote]Originally posted by Anders:
<strong>
No sorry. You are wrong. Thats the thing everybody is puzzled about at the moment. He had no connection to the left whatsoever.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, he sure wasn't from the right. He wasn't just described as an environmentalist but also as an animal rights activist. The animal rights people are from the left.

[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: spaceman_spiff ]</p>
shooby doo, shooby doo
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shooby doo, shooby doo
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post #37 of 45
he wasn't right nor left, this guy (as newspapers say) has never showed interest in politics. he didn't talk about Fortuyn at work nor anywhere else. he's probably just a fool and wants/ needs attention.

it's too easy to blame a group
Merdeka!
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Merdeka!
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post #38 of 45
So you guys finally got a Ted Kaczynski, eh? Good for you.

I never meant to imply that all leftists killed Pim Fortuyn. I don't think that's logistically possible.

Although it's not as if the wacko environmentalists and wacko animal-rights activists have historically been above harming humans to make their voices heard, it's not odd at all that I associated this man with leftist politics. It seems that even your folk are "puzzled" (to use your word).

You'll also note my classification of leftist ("peaceful") from the beginning.

(Further note: "peaceful" with a wink means: not peaceful)
proud resident of a failed state
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proud resident of a failed state
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post #39 of 45
[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>
Although it's not as if the wacko environmentalists and wacko animal-rights activists have historically been above harming humans to make their voices heard, it's not odd at all that I associated this man with leftist politics. It seems that even your folk are "puzzled" (to use your word).
</strong><hr></blockquote>

The reason why this is strange is not because he is an enviromentalist that apparently isn´t part of the left but because he killed a right winged and apparently isn´t part of the left. If a left winged politician was killed I would automaticly think it was a (cracy) rightwinged that did it and vica versa. But thats not the case here and thats the puzzling thing here.

I really don´t get you today. You are being quite unlogic in this and the "\tEuropean Protectionism" thread. I know that you aren´t stupid so I really don´t understand you <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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post #40 of 45
[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>So you guys finally got a Ted Kaczynski, eh? Good for you.</strong><hr></blockquote>If you had to classify, the unabomber would probably be left-wing, too. At least, he's not right-wing.
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