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Aussie paper says iPhone 4 antenna is no problem, Kiwi launch hits snag - Page 2

post #41 of 133
7/30/10 at 7:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

The speed of the network is not the same thing as the coverage or the strength of the signal necessarily.

AT&T is perceived by Americans to have an inferior network (whether speed or coverage) only because Americans compare AT&T with Verizon.

People are going to complain no matter what. When O2 was announced as the original iphone carrier in the UK, plenty of Brits were complaining that Apple picked the wrong network carrier.

It is just the matter of the public perception. When you hear it every single day, you start believing in it.

In conclusion, I really doubt that other carriers around the world have much superior networks than AT&T. It just feels that way to people because you keep on hearing about Americans complaining about how AT&T's network is inferior to Verizon's network.
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post #42 of 133
7/30/10 at 7:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Povilas View Post

By the end of the year We already have 10 Mbps in all big cities and even more than that.

Peak theoretical speeds that have no relevance to real life usage.
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post #43 of 133
7/30/10 at 8:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Peak theoretical speeds that have no relevance to real life usage.

Yeah, but peak theoretical speeds for as yet undeployed future technologies have lots of relevance to real life usage.
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post #44 of 133
7/30/10 at 8:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

By the end of the year, 1/3 of US will have Verizon's LTE with 5-12 mbps average speed and 50 mbps peak.

It's just a matter of perspective. AT&T's network looks weak only because people are comparing it with Verizon's network. Quantitative analysis has shown that AT&T's network ain't that bad when comparing it with the rest of the world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Povilas View Post

By the end of the year We already have 10 Mbps in all big cities and even more than that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Peak theoretical speeds that have no relevance to real life usage.

So you claim 5-12 mbps is going to be live usage in your country ???? Boy oh boy you really are on slippery ground here.
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post #45 of 133
7/30/10 at 8:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Yeah, but peak theoretical speeds for as yet undeployed future technologies have lots of relevance to real life usage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach View Post

So you claim 5-12 mbps is going to be live usage in your country ???? Boy oh boy you really are on slippery ground here.

American carriers have always been honest about their wireless speed. You don't see Verizon hyping about their upcoming 50 mbps 4G network.

But we do see other carriers around the world hyping about their new 50 mbps LTE test speed.

http://www.computerworld.com.au/arti...ney_lte_tests/

It's the same set-up as Verizon's network. American carriers don't hype useless theoretical peak speed, so people automatically think that American wireless networks are years behind the rest of the world.
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post #46 of 133
7/30/10 at 8:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

American carriers have always been honest about their wireless speed. You don't see Verizon hyping about their upcoming 50 mbps 4G network.

Not quite. I think it was only earlier this year that AT&T took objection with T-Mobile USA calling their upcoming HSPA network '4G'.
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post #47 of 133
7/30/10 at 8:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Not quite. I think it was only earlier this year that AT&T took objection with T-Mobile USA calling their upcoming HSPA network '4G'.

They do have a German parent, so they are copying the bad habits from them.
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post #48 of 133
7/30/10 at 8:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wurm5150 View Post

I guess we can all go back to blaming AT&T for the reception problems here?

No, it's time to accept the fact that there is no problem in the U.S. either. Just a small, vocal minority (most of which are trolls), assisted by american tech media, inflating a mole hill into a mountain. Only in the U.S. does the minority get this kind of attention.
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post #49 of 133
7/30/10 at 8:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Yeah, but peak theoretical speeds for as yet undeployed future technologies have lots of relevance to real life usage.

definitely worth a
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post #50 of 133
7/30/10 at 8:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen View Post

definitely worth a

Much better than other carriers around the world hyping their upcoming 50-100 mbps networks.
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post #51 of 133
7/30/10 at 8:25am
Norway has no problems with iPhone 4, now Australia has no problems with it. It is only here in this country that people have problems with it because they have issues with AT&T.
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post #52 of 133
7/30/10 at 8:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

They do have a German parent, so they are copying the bad habits from them.

That's irrelevant. This is really a different topic, but Sprint calling their slow-ass WiMAX '4G' and the 3GSM initialisms with different categories aren't marketable so if T-Mobile wants to say HSPA+ has 4G speeds I'm cool with that since it can easily trounce Sprint's 4G speeds.
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post #53 of 133
7/30/10 at 8:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Much better than other carriers around the world hyping their upcoming 50-100 mbps networks.

couldn't care less about what is being hyped up for the future, more interested in comparing the here and now.
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post #54 of 133
7/30/10 at 8:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkalu View Post

Norway has no problems with iPhone 4, now Australia has no problems with it. It is only here in this country that people have problems with it because they have issues with AT&T.

Yes, and it's all the result of allowing the carriers to run wild and implement whatever wireless technology they wanted, resulting in an utterly and hopelessly fragmented bag of incompatible networks here.
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post #55 of 133
7/30/10 at 8:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen View Post

couldn't care less about what is being hyped up for the future, more interested in comparing the here and now.

The here and now is that AT&T iphone users get the upper end of the speed scale when compare to other iphone users around the world.
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post #56 of 133
7/30/10 at 8:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Yes, and it's all the result of allowing the carriers to run wild and implement whatever wireless technology they wanted, resulting in an utterly and hopelessly fragmented bag of incompatible networks here.

Well, tell this to samab.I Ithink he or she doesn't want to agree with that fact.
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post #57 of 133
7/30/10 at 8:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Yes, and it's all the result of allowing the carriers to run wild and implement whatever wireless technology they wanted, resulting in an utterly and hopelessly fragmented bag of incompatible networks here.

All the recent European regulators have auction their spectrum on a technology neutral basis for the last 3-4 years. Many European regulators are currently formulating policies to take back the GSM only 900 MHz license and then auctioning it out on a technology neutral basis.

It is another instance where people thought American system was backward --- and then years later Europe copied them.

http://www.dailywireless.org/2007/05...pean-strategy/
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post #58 of 133
7/30/10 at 8:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

The here and now is that AT&T iphone users get the upper end of the speed scale when compare to other iphone users around the world.

signal strength seems to be an entirely different matter. your defensiveness on this is lollable.
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post #59 of 133
7/30/10 at 8:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Yeah. I'm in Canada but got the same sad news.

I really am pissed at how badly Apple handles it's international product launches. Right up until hours before the release of the product, there's no pre-orders, and worse no information (at all!) on what they are actually going to do or what their policies are going to be. It's as if Apple figures it's job is "done" when the truck finally drives up to the international location and dumps a load of boxes. All they care about is shovelling out the product, there is no customer care, and no communication beyond the rumours you hear on the web.

I phoned my local Apple store last night and was told that the managers had been specifically instructed by Apple headquarters not to give out *any* information on sales before the actual launch today. It's not like I was asking for inside info either. I was asking stuff like "will I be *able* to buy it online?" and they stonewalled me and said they were under strict orders not to communicate *anything* to the customer.

I know it's nice for Apple that a lot of obsessive types take the day off from work and line up just on the possibility that the iPhone will be for sale, but they shouldn't expect all their sales to be that way. If I now have to wait three or four more weeks, why the f*ck couldn't I pre-order it three weeks ago? If they have stock in the store, why can't I set my order for in store pickup? If I was able to take the day off work, I could just walk into the Apple store and buy one but now I have to wait three weeks even though I live within fifteen minutes of the Apple store. Alternatively, I could have called in sick or something and went downtown to line up with all the losers, but because they won't tell you how many they have (even wild approximations are verboten apparently), one could line up for hours and not get one.

Absolutely abysmal customer service if you ask me. My local Apple store has joined the ranks of places like WallMart and RadioShack in my town. It *looks* like an Apple store, but it runs like any other run-of-the-mill crappy department store.

That's not exactly poor customer service. They are trying to keep up with huge demand, and having a hard time with it. Their other option could have been to put off launching it in more countries until they had it under control in the countries that it is currently available, but that certainly wouldn't have helped you. 3-4 weeks is not the end of the world. I pre-ordered mine before the release date in the US and still had to wait two weeks after release because the orders were too many. Yet they still have stock in the store on release day. That is common practice. Apple generally has very high marks for customer service.
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post #60 of 133
7/30/10 at 8:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

All the recent European regulators have auction their spectrum on a technology neutral basis for the last 3-4 years. Many European regulators are currently formulating policies to take back the GSM only 900 MHz license and then auctioning it out on a technology neutral basis.

It is another instance where people thought American system was backward --- and then years later Europe copied them.

Well, the mistake in your reasoning is assuming that they are a) doing so for rational reasons and b) that copying the US is a good thing. I think the only thing the EU will accomplish is to turn their wireless networks into as big a mess as ours are. The American system is a huge negative, and the EU will soon discover that they've made a huge mistake.
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post #61 of 133
7/30/10 at 8:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

No, it's time to accept the fact that there is no problem in the U.S. either. Just a small, vocal minority (most of which are trolls), assisted by american tech media, inflating a mole hill into a mountain. Only in the U.S. does the minority get this kind of attention.

Agreed. Its a minor inconvenience for a small, but vocal minority in a small coverage area.
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post #62 of 133
7/30/10 at 8:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen View Post

signal strength seems to be an entirely different matter. your defensiveness on this is lollable.

3G speed is dependent on signal strength.
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post #63 of 133
7/30/10 at 8:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Well, the mistake in your reasoning is assuming that they are a) doing so for rational reasons and b) that copying the US is a good thing. I think the only thing the EU will accomplish is to turn their wireless networks into as big a mess as ours are. The American system is a huge negative, and the EU will soon discover that they've made a huge mistake.

The worldwide launch of the iphone has taught people many things --- the grass is not greener on the other side of the Atlantic.

Europe doesn't even have ETF (let alone pro-rated ETF) --- so while it is geek-talk technically easier to swap carriers just by changing SIM cards, it is financially not viable to change carriers in Europe.
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post #64 of 133
7/30/10 at 8:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

So you getting 2Mbps download speeds to your CDMA phones yet?

Because I AVERAGE around 3.5Mbps with peaks around 5.5Mbps.

but by they end of the year they'll be better than us, just you wait and see

Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

By the end of the year, 1/3 of US will have Verizon's LTE with 5-12 mbps average speed and 50 mbps peak.

April 09 Telstra had 21Mbps peak. and "Telstra has advised during Mobile World Congress February 2010 that its network now supports 42Mbps and this has been deployed to nearly all sites." These are not vapour-stats like you are clinging onto.
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post #65 of 133
7/30/10 at 8:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

3G speed is dependent on signal strength.

see above, we've got you covered on both then.
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post #66 of 133
7/30/10 at 9:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

The here and now is that AT&T iphone users get the upper end of the speed scale when compare to other iphone users around the world.

Then why does it drop out in the US and noone in the Australia reports seems to be able to get a call to drop? Speed and call retention are inextricably linked.
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post #67 of 133
7/30/10 at 9:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

The worldwide launch of the iphone has taught people many things --- the grass is not greener on the other side of the Atlantic.

Europe doesn't even have ETF (let alone pro-rated ETF) --- so while it is geek-talk technically easier to swap carriers just by changing SIM cards, it is financially not viable to change carriers in Europe.

What it's taught Apple is that launching the iphone in a country with a second-rate network is a pretty bad place to introduce your new product.

As to it being financially viable to swap carriers in Europe, that's just not true. Most consumers consider it straightforward and worthwhile to change carriers from time to time because there's something called real competition unlike the uncompetitive iPhone market in the US. The outcomes speak for themselves.
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post #68 of 133
7/30/10 at 9:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by benice View Post

Then why does it drop out in the US and noone in the Australia reports seems to be able to get a call to drop? Speed and call retention are inextricably linked.

I don't care for pissing contests one iota - I simply do not care if the US, South Korea, Finland or wherever have the "best" or "fastest" network. However, the recognised speed/strength of Telstra's network, combined with the anecdotal reports of iPhone 4 usage here today (believe me when i say i've spent way too much time trawling discussion boards today!) have to make one wonder about what our American friends are putting up with on AT&T. Strangely even users of Optus' much derided network are reporting little effect of the antenna issues, and virtually no dropped calls.
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post #69 of 133
7/30/10 at 9:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by benice View Post

As to it being financially viable to swap carriers in Europe, that's just not true. Most consumers consider it straightforward and worthwhile to change carriers from time to time because there's something called real competition unlike the uncompetitive iPhone market in the US. The outcomes speak for themselves.

Same in Australia. Carriers will even give you (often quite substantial) credits to offset any penalties you incur from breaking contracts.
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post #70 of 133
7/30/10 at 9:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wurm5150 View Post

I guess we can all go back to blaming AT&T for the reception problems here?

what dumbass is blaming AT&T for Apples design screw up?
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post #71 of 133
7/30/10 at 9:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolcat View Post

what dumbass is blaming AT&T for Apples design screw up?

Not you, apparently.
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post #72 of 133
7/30/10 at 9:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Peak theoretical speeds that have no relevance to real life usage.

I personaly always have ~8 Mbps and signal strength could be better, but speed is fine.
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post #73 of 133
7/30/10 at 9:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolcat View Post

what dumbass is blaming AT&T for Apples design screw up?

Since it is a US only issue (from my own experience and various reports from around the world) is either AT&T or you Amercans eith your HUGE reception blocker HANDS!
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post #74 of 133
7/30/10 at 10:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

AT&T is perceived by Americans to have an inferior network (whether speed or coverage) only because Americans compare AT&T with Verizon.

People are going to complain no matter what. When O2 was announced as the original iphone carrier in the UK, plenty of Brits were complaining that Apple picked the wrong network carrier.

It is just the matter of the public perception. When you hear it every single day, you start believing in it.

In conclusion, I really doubt that other carriers around the world have much superior networks than AT&T. It just feels that way to people because you keep on hearing about Americans complaining about how AT&T's network is inferior to Verizon's network.

I know what you are saying about perception and undoubtedly it plays some part, but overall I think you are assuming a lot here and for that reason could easily be dead wrong on this. You have no actual data other than a hunch that it's perception driven.

I think the antenna issue is a good example of (somewhat) hard data. It's an observable physical flaw that seems to occur with much higher regularity on American networks vs. International ones. The data that exists is mostly anecdotal of course, but I have yet to find or hear of anyone in my country having any problem at all on any of the five main carriers of iPhone. Anecdotally, I'm hearing the same from friends and acquaintances in Australia, Europe, and New Zealand. I don't know anyone personally in Japan, but I hear it's the same over there.

So yeah, most of the evidence is anecdotal and some of it is questionable, but it's interesting that there seems to be a clear difference between the experience of users in the USA and users in other countries. It does correlate to the superior coverage and the newer systems in those countries. These are all very suggestive facts even if nothing can be categorically proven from them.

I think the case for the networks being a real physical difference between cases of fail and non-fail is better than the case for it all being perception based at this point.
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post #75 of 133
7/30/10 at 10:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen View Post

but by they end of the year they'll be better than us, just you wait and see

April 09 Telstra had 21Mbps peak. and "Telstra has advised during Mobile World Congress February 2010 that its network now supports 42Mbps and this has been deployed to nearly all sites." These are not vapour-stats like you are clinging onto.

Kind of browsing through this thread a bit. Has anyone bothered to point out to Samab that the Wired “article” he linked to was posted/printed almost two years ago, well before Telstra’s two major system upgrades?

About his OP, I’m basing my opinions on comments directly from ATTWS field techs made to me on my project sites - they don’t have sufficient backhaul, they haven’t much experience with dual frequency WCDMA network load balancing, they’re months behind in their equipment upgrade and repair schedules. I compare ATTWS’s WCDMA network performance to what works in Europe - ATTWS doesn’t implement the dual-channel communication “method” in its devices when compared to the European networks I’ve been exposed to (1900 in one direction/2100 in the other direction). VZW ports the vast amount of its data consumption on a different channel and fully separates HS data from voice by design. None of the US carriers offer an optimal wireless data experience for its customers when compared to the offerings available elsewhere - citing an article two years and two massive system upgrades ago isn’t doing the readers of this thread any good either. Telstra’s network is vastly improved from just a year ago, and since they’ve offered to lose their wireline network in exchange for future massive backhaul upgrades to support their wireless network, they’ll blow away anything the US market can offer for maybe 10-20 years.
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post #76 of 133
7/30/10 at 10:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

By the end of the year, 1/3 of US will have Verizon's LTE with 5-12 mbps average speed and 50 mbps peak.

It's just a matter of perspective. AT&T's network looks weak only because people are comparing it with Verizon's network. Quantitative analysis has shown that AT&T's network ain't that bad when comparing it with the rest of the world.

NO freakin way VZ is able to do that. They just started and they are behind Sprint in the rollout. VZ also stopped rolling out FIOS, the fiber to the home that is rated slower than comcast cable by speedtest.net.

Please don't praise our backward maintaining cell companies, both ATT and VZ. They are being forced to upgrade and not doing it pro-actively, but re-actively.
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post #77 of 133
7/30/10 at 10:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by benice View Post

What it's taught Apple is that launching the iphone in a country with a second-rate network is a pretty bad place to introduce your new product.

As to it being financially viable to swap carriers in Europe, that's just not true. Most consumers consider it straightforward and worthwhile to change carriers from time to time because there's something called real competition unlike the uncompetitive iPhone market in the US. The outcomes speak for themselves.

samab is never bothered by facts that contradict his goal of promoting CDMA.
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post #78 of 133
7/30/10 at 10:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Total BS.

Australia had the SLOWEST 3G iphone speed in the wired.com survey.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2008/08/global-iphone-3/

He was talking about reception but speed my friend
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post #79 of 133
7/30/10 at 10:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Yeah. I'm in Canada but got the same sad news.

I really am pissed at how badly Apple handles it's international product launches. Right up until hours before the release of the product, there's no pre-orders, and worse no information (at all!) on what they are actually going to do or what their policies are going to be. It's as if Apple figures it's job is "done" when the truck finally drives up to the international location and dumps a load of boxes. All they care about is shovelling out the product, there is no customer care, and no communication beyond the rumours you hear on the web.

I phoned my local Apple store last night and was told that the managers had been specifically instructed by Apple headquarters not to give out *any* information on sales before the actual launch today. It's not like I was asking for inside info either. I was asking stuff like "will I be *able* to buy it online?" and they stonewalled me and said they were under strict orders not to communicate *anything* to the customer.

I know it's nice for Apple that a lot of obsessive types take the day off from work and line up just on the possibility that the iPhone will be for sale, but they shouldn't expect all their sales to be that way. If I now have to wait three or four more weeks, why the f*ck couldn't I pre-order it three weeks ago? If they have stock in the store, why can't I set my order for in store pickup? If I was able to take the day off work, I could just walk into the Apple store and buy one but now I have to wait three weeks even though I live within fifteen minutes of the Apple store. Alternatively, I could have called in sick or something and went downtown to line up with all the losers, but because they won't tell you how many they have (even wild approximations are verboten apparently), one could line up for hours and not get one.

Absolutely abysmal customer service if you ask me. My local Apple store has joined the ranks of places like WallMart and RadioShack in my town. It *looks* like an Apple store, but it runs like any other run-of-the-mill crappy department store.

Apple has no personal animosity for the rest of the world. We can't get phones here in the US, either. The chinese slave labor force just can't handle the amount of phones being ordered by Apple. It;s no accident that Apple is rolling the release out a few countries at a time. There is just not enough phones to go around. Please don't hate my Apple. We get enough of that from the disciples of MSFT and GOOG.
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post #80 of 133
7/30/10 at 11:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bones View Post

Kind of browsing through this thread a bit. Has anyone bothered to point out to Samab that the Wired article he linked to was posted/printed almost two years ago, well before Telstras two major system upgrades?

Yes, it was pointed out that theyve upgraded their network. However that doesnt tell us how fast the average user will get. Even if they have updated al their towers with the faster commercial HSPA available there are still backbone speed issues, other HW and configuration considerations, possible throttling well below the tower spec capabilities, land (perhaps most importantly) the weakest link as the devices cant possible operate at those speeds.

The US MNO setup is a great example of different networks all have vastly different pros and cons. Because of this I dont think we can award a best/worst without quantifying the hell out of it.
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