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BS "Click It or Ticket" Campaign

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
Here in Washington there's going to be a large mandatory seat belt crackdown with 400 Officers working OT to pull over violators and hand out $86 fines.

Is it just me or do you feel like our Gov has severely overstepped it's bounds in many small areas such as this. I have an Airbag in my car...I pay my OWN Insurance Premiums. Stop Legislating my life. YOU WORK FOR ME YOU IDIOTS!</rant>

I hope that your State/City is not joining this farce. It's what's wrong with Gov todays.
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post #2 of 21
Massachusetts has had a seatbelt law for a few years now, and so has Hawaii. Are you ranting against the law itself, or the way it's being enforced in Washington?
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post #3 of 21
[quote]Originally posted by jesperas:
<strong>Massachusetts has had a seatbelt law for a few years now, and so has Hawaii. Are you ranting against the law itself, or the way it's being enforced in Washington?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Wath bother you the more : speed limitation orthe obligation to fasten your seatbelt ?
post #4 of 21
[quote]Originally posted by powerdoc:
<strong>
Wath bother you the more : speed limitation orthe obligation to fasten your seatbelt ?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Neither, actually. I've always worn seatbelts, so a law isn't a big deal to me. Just wanted a little more background and clarification on hmurchison's rant.

Auto insurance in Massachusetts ticks me off more than seatbelt laws. Got a speeding ticket last year, and because of the way insurance works here, it'll be on my record for the next 5 years.
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post #5 of 21
Thread Starter 
I don't like the Law. The Gov doesn't pay my Doctor Bills....I do. I don't like Gov Laws added under the guise of "Protecting Children" when all Wash State wants is to line their Coffers with money. They don't care about kids or they'd simply charge like 25-35 per fine like many states. $86??????? That's some peoples daily pay. Government should be for the people and by the people but the larger it becomes with silly laws the worse off we become. If you get assaulted or worse...I think you'd rather have Officers working on REAL crimes rather than running around chasing citizens who are violating their Seatbelt Laws.

[quote] Washington's law enforcement agencies are participating in a national "Click It or Ticket" campaign. They received $1 million in federal funding to pay for radio ads that started airing Monday and for overtime costs for more than 400 officers starting May 20. <hr></blockquote>


Time and a half pay for chasing Traffic Offenders???? And you wonder why thugs and criminals are roaming the streets?

I wear my seatbelt...I suggest that my frinds put on their seatbelts and I DEMAND that children wear their seatbelts. However it's unacceptable to have this be a Government Mandate. Had I wanted the Gov to permeate every stage of my life I would have become a communist and left the country.
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post #6 of 21
[quote]Originally posted by jesperas:
<strong>

Neither, actually. I've always worn seatbelts, so a law isn't a big deal to me. Just wanted a little more background and clarification on hmurchison's rant.

Auto insurance in Massachusetts ticks me off more than seatbelt laws. Got a speeding ticket last year, and because of the way insurance works here, it'll be on my record for the next 5 years. </strong><hr></blockquote>
I always worn seatbelts too, and ... it's not a big deal either; In fact like you my question was for Hmurchinson in order to get some clarifications too
post #7 of 21
I don't like the law in California- they can ticket me if one of my passengers doesn't wear one. I personally always wear one. Not doing so is as un-natural for me as leaving the house naked. If you don't want to wear one, fine. As long as you pay for your medical expenses out of your own pocket when you crash into a tree. No class-action suits against the car manufacturers who should have made safer airbags, no defaulting on the hospital bills so costs go up for everyone else, or for that matter, no insurance picking up the tab, since you made the choice not to take two seconds to engage a device that can save your a$$ in even a minor accident. Unless you want to pay premiums that reflect your lack of sense.

But I'm sure that's not what hmurchison was talking about- spending millions to keep the stupid safe is a waste of money.
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post #8 of 21
Thread Starter 
tmp

It's the same here. You will get a ticket per unbuckled patron in your car...that sucks. I mean sure It's my car but I don't like playing the Seat Belt Cop for adults.
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post #9 of 21
[quote]Originally posted by tmp:
<strong>But I'm sure that's not what hmurchison was talking about- spending millions to keep the stupid safe is a waste of money.</strong><hr></blockquote>

North Carolina also has a law like this.

Although I unserstand your point, I don't know if I would saw that it is a waste of money. Just because someone forgets to buckle their seatblet doesn't mean that they are stupid. And even if they are stupid, that doesn;t mean that we should sit back and let them die. To do so would be wrong. The point of the law is not the money they get from the tickets, but for the law to make people think before they pull out of their driveways.

If it takes the threat of a fine to make people remember to buckle up, then so be it.
post #10 of 21
[quote]Originally posted by Stroszek:
[QB]

The point of the law is not the money they get from the tickets, but for the law to make people think before they pull out of their driveways.
QB]<hr></blockquote>

I'm not so sure about that. We have a lot of these "sting" operations here in Los Angeles that are barely disguised money making machines for the city- paying people to walk back and forth in crosswalks and ticketing motorists who don't stop, or the one in the la times today about cops videotaping cars dropping kids off at a school in the valley. Apparently they mail the tickets to people who stop in red zones or block driveways on the residential street the school sits on. The district "can't afford" to make a curb cut or redesign the area that kids get dropped off at to make it easier to drop your kid, but they can afford to have cops stationed there to videotape people as they drop their kids off. All in the name of "safety".

Seat belts have been known to save lives since the 60's. I am against cops taking time from real crimefighting to enforce a dumb law. If they are really serious that this is not a money-making venture, then hand out warnings for the first 30 days. That'll do it for most people.
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post #11 of 21
To play Devil's advocate...

When someone gets into your vehicle, and you are the one driving, you are responsible for their safety in a moral sort of way. So you should make sure they use a seatbelt. Same thing when you get on an airplane; the airline is responsible for your safety (due to FAA regulations) and they make sure you buckle up. You should do the same for people getting into your car. These things are kind of dangerous machines...

About the law, I'm from Atlanta, and Georgia has had one for a long time. They don't just sit around and make up random laws, the people that pass them do so because there were enough people actively pressuring them into doing so.

Sure these people work for you, but they also work for everyone else in this country. And enough people in this country (or in your state/district) talked to their government representatives and asked them to pass a law on wearing seatbelts. If it is something you are against, you need to talk to your representatives. The reason it got passed probably had something to do with the fact that more people said they wanted it than didn't.

Plenty of people complain about the laws they don't agree with, but I guarantee you the majority of them never write their congressmen or other representatives telling them how they feel. Sure, your one letter won't get it remanded, but if more people make their voice be heard, you have a much better chance.
post #12 of 21
Thread Starter 
M3D Jack - If I don't have a seatbelt on I suppose I could be considered a threat to others by becoming a Human Projectile LOL

I guess this just rankles me because I prescribe to the philosphy of small Government. It's a slippery slope..here in WA it started out as "you can only be ticketed for being unbuckled from a stop for another reason" now they can simply look at you and pull you over if they feel like you don't have a seatbelt on. I agree with tmp's sentiments...with enough crime to keep ANY force busy...why are we focusing on seatbelts. You wanna protect kids...keep them away from crappy parents and molesters. I feel like the Gov has not right to tell me how to ensure my save via legislation. It is most definitely about money....if you are pulled over the Officer will ask for License and Registration. If you have no proof of insurance(I do have insurance) then you will get an $86 ticket to match your $570 No Insurance ticket. Our courts are letting murders on the street because they can't get them into court quick enough(true story here in WA). Sure it sounds like a small concession but ...it's death by a thousand cuts IMO
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post #13 of 21
[quote]Originally posted by hmurchison:
<strong>M3D Jack - If I don't have a seatbelt on I suppose I could be considered a threat to others by becoming a Human Projectile LOL
</strong><hr></blockquote>

actually thats pretty acurate... something like 50% of fatalities in car accidents come from people in the back not wearing seatbelts slamming into the seat in front of them killing the person in the front seat... I'm not sure of the % but its something like that... i'm sure its not hard to look up...
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post #14 of 21
[quote]Originally posted by Stroszek:
<strong>North Carolina also has a law like this.</strong><hr></blockquote>Yup. The "click it or ticket" campaign has been going on for... hmm... YEARS. I'd venture to guess ten or more years. If you want, I can try to dig up some statistics on the reduction in numbers of deadly or severe automobile accidents since the enforcement -- my mother works for GMAC Insurance and has access to these kinds of numbers on a national basis.

A question for you, though:

What's so hard about wearing a seat belt? When there are so ridiculously many reports on how a seat belt decreases the change of injury, why chance it? Do you not understand how the airbag and seat belt work in tandem to save your life?

*personal testimony: I have been in two major accidents where he seal belt - airbag combination likely saved my life. I also totaled one car where the air bag did not deploy, but the seal belt kept me from smashing my skull into the windshield. Remember: certain conditions have to be met of the direction and speed before the air bag will deploy. In my case, I was hit in the rear, drivers-side door, put into a spin, and tossed down an embankment where the car stopped after hitting a tree. Because of the unusal direction of impact, the airbag was not supposed to deploy, assuming I was wearing my seat belt. It would have harmed more than helped. If not for my seat belt, though, I would have been seriously hurt from being tossed around in the car.

Remember, the government is enforcing this to save people's lives. That is part of our (USA, yes I understand it's state and not federal) government's job. Of course, you can argue whether or not it *should* be the government's job to protect its people, but the fact is that today it is.

[ 05-08-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>
post #15 of 21
I always wear a seatbelt, and would always do so - law or not. However, the government has no right to tell me that I have to wear a seatbelt.
post #16 of 21
Still don't think seat belt use should be enforced? Here's a scenario for you.

You hit another car and are clearly at fault. However, the driver of the other car wasn't wearing a seat belt and dies in the wreck, but would have lived if he was wearing the seat belt. Is the charge of manslaughter added to your record because of this? If seat belts were enforced, wouldn't it be more likely that the other driver was wearing his and lived and thus your own punishment be less severe?

[ 05-08-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>
post #17 of 21
[quote]Originally posted by hmurchison:
<strong>Here in Washington there's going to be a large mandatory seat belt crackdown with 400 Officers working OT to pull over violators and hand out $86 fines.

Is it just me or do you feel like our Gov has severely overstepped it's bounds in many small areas such as this. I have an Airbag in my car...I pay my OWN Insurance Premiums. Stop Legislating my life. YOU WORK FOR ME YOU IDIOTS!&lt;/rant&gt;

I hope that your State/City is not joining this farce. It's what's wrong with Gov todays.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Ha! This is nothing compared to what's been happening down here in California! Why just recently, we almost got a soda tax bill passed of which roughly 380 million dollars of its revenue was going to be used to teach kids that drinking soda is bad for them (along with other general nutrition education). I am NOT kidding.

This next one is scary. I'm not sure if it's law yet but if it does pass, the "state" (our government) will determine what the name a school's athletic team name, mascot, or nickname name cannot be so as we don't offend certain races of people. We already can't post political adds against incumbents 60 days prior to an election. Now we have the "state" controlling the names of school teams.
I'm just wondering what influence PETA will have in future school team names after hearing that PETA is suing dairy farmers to stop them from using happy cows in cheese commercials because they say that the cows are not really happy. The first thing to come to my mind regarding AB 2115 is that the "state" may eventually also disallow schools to use animal names for their team names because PETA has found out that certain animal species who are under consideration for a school team name may be offended by the thought of human's running around as eagle's (or whatever).
And a side note on this: I asked both my kids today if they believed the cows were really happy in the "happy cow cheese commercial" and they both basically said "no, the cows have fake mouths." They are 8 and 11 yrs old.

The leftist nazi nanny's in control of the California government are starting to go crazy because of our 20+ billion dollar deficit that they and Governor Grayt Dufus have in large part, created. As such, they are looking for any reason to create and pass any kind of "nanny" tax to help reduce "their" deficit. And believe it or not, at the same time they are increasing spending in a BIG way which to me, shows an utter lack of knowing what the fv[k is going on with the State's finances.

Be glad your not here...
post #18 of 21
Sounds to me like such strong feelings about the laws being considered and passed in your state government indicates an interest in voicing your opinion to your elected officials.

As I've said before, if you want things to change, you've got to participate. Your elected officials, believe it or not, actually listen to the people they represent... and right now, they're not hearing enough people like you argue against the laws that are upsetting you so much. And if you don't feel that they are accurately representing you, then don't vote for them next tim elections come up.

Know who your elected officials are, write them a letter, or at least email them, and voice your opinions about things you feel strongly about. Encourage other to do the same. The system has been put in place for us to use it, and if we don't, we shouldn't really complain when things don't go our way
post #19 of 21
[quote]Originally posted by starfleetX:
<strong>
Remember, the government is enforcing this to save people's lives. That is part of our (USA, yes I understand it's state and not federal) government's job.</strong><hr></blockquote>

That might be SECONDARY reason, but I doubt the primary. It seems to me that if the government wanted to really save peoples lives...well, let's just say some things are very strange to me:

cigarettes are legal, but marijuana isn't.
promiscuous sex is legal, but prostitution isn't.
shooting a wild animal (in season) is legal, but beating a dog to death isn't.

I could go on, but my point is that anymore it seems to me that the logic behind most laws is so arbitrary it's ridiculous. There's no rhyme or reason, and there certainly isn't any real justice in any of it.

Basically it's lobbyists getting their way, one way or another. That, or the government getting its piece of the pie.

[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: CosmoNut ]</p>
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post #20 of 21
Thread Starter 
Cosmonut...you've pretty muched summed up my thoughts.

Just today in Washington state I have found out that a Man who drugged and raped a 10yr old girl got 6 months and mounds of Therapy instead of the requested 11yrs in prison. This "protect the children" crap is subterfuge and it disgusts me. Gov is a large entitity and frankly can seem caring but really it's not.

[quote] You hit another car and are clearly at fault. However, the driver of the other car wasn't wearing a seat belt and dies in the wreck, but would have lived if he was wearing the seat belt. Is the charge of manslaughter added to your record because of this? If seat belts were enforced, wouldn't it be more likely that the other driver was wearing his and lived and thus your own punishment be less severe?

<hr></blockquote>

If the courts found that the death was caused by the persons lack of a seatbelt then I think it woud only be fair to disallow Manslaughter as a charge. I do wear my seatbelt but I just object to it being a Gov mandate. Cosmonut is right...if they TRULY though about safety then Cigarettes, Alcohol and many other harmful items would be outlawed. It's bad enough that the avg American is taxed way beyond what our forefathers were but this is just an additional $lap in the face.
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post #21 of 21
[quote]Originally posted by CosmoNut:
<strong>
shooting a wild animal (in season) is legal, but beating a dog to death isn't.</strong><hr></blockquote>

As an addendum to this statement, I want to address those who say, "hunting is justified to control the wild animal population."

Please.

Yeah, like nature had such a difficulty before humans started being so *kind* to kill off the population to regulate things. Give me a break.
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