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Apple removes competitors' phones from iPhone 4 antenna page - Page 2

post #41 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by druble View Post

Something I have noticed on the droid X is that it will go into a low power network mode. It will go from full bars to one, but as soon as you do something like hit the icon to make a phone call, or open mail, it jumps right back up to 4 bars. Apple could have recorded the phone going into low power mode without realizing that was what happened. Does not mean they did it on purpose, but did not understand how their competitors phone works, and was misinformed in the information they released about what was happening in the video. I mean they have that "State of the art" testing room right? Why would they show it off and then not use it?

And there's similar report about IP4, that if you touch the seam Safari stop download page but if you hit reload the download resume So what your point? You guys should move on. It's a dead horse. No one care if you keep beating it.
post #42 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmikeo View Post

I love Apple, but the fact that Apple stepped down to the level of it's competitors seemed childish. All they needed to do was give out the bumper, and not bring other companies into it. It did not seem professional. I sometimes wonder if Apple still thinks that it is a Start-Up company and not one of the largest tech companies in the world. Take the high road, take care of your customers and take the profit to the bank.

QFT. I've been saying the same thing for a couple of weeks.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

You forgot to check your Apple-envy at the door.

You shouldn't say that. Under any circumstances. Ever.
post #43 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmikeo View Post

I love Apple, but the fact that Apple stepped down to the level of it's competitors seemed childish. All they needed to do was give out the bumper, and not bring other companies into it. It did not seem professional. I sometimes wonder if Apple still thinks that it is a Start-Up company and not one of the largest tech companies in the world. Take the high road, take care of your customers and take the profit to the bank.

Yeah.. I think it's kind of low but necessary. Glad that they removed them now.
post #44 of 89
So you want to change your story?

Quote:
Originally Posted by druble View Post

Honestly, it probably was because of legal threats. The videos may have been faked. They did not even bother to cover the antenna in the top of the Droid X for example, yet they show this mysterious video of its bars dropping, but no one can seem to recreate what Apple has done.

Legal threats require more than conjecture and the links I posted from non Apple sources show that phones are affected by hand placement, user manuals have also warned of this issue for over a decade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by druble View Post

Look, I am not saying there are not phones out there that do not truly have an issue with hand placement. I have seen very convincing videos such as someone running a download speed test while demonstrating a bad spot to hold. Some of the phones Apple put up videos for really do have this problem, but some of the others do not appear to be affected to the extent that the Apple videos show.

Just like not all iPhone 4's are affected to the extent that the videos that started all this show.

Game over, nothing more to see here, move along folks.
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post #45 of 89
Apple just pointed out the hypocrisy that other smart phone manufacturers were maintaining. And I think it was a reality check for everyone else. No one is perfect, no one's smart phone is perfect either. I think Apple handle the whole "antennagate" with class and resolution.
post #46 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

Apple: if you have any integrity, bring back Field Test Mode.

Why? End users typically don't know what it means or how it works. People who DO need that information have more sophisticated test equipment than FTM. The fact that a tiny number of geeks like playing with FTM isn't justification for including it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsm View Post

Who was taking out FULL PAGE ADS in the New York Times taking advantage of the iPhone antenna hysteria?

Apples competitors were asking for it and they got it.

All the whiners were loving it when Apple was doing nothing and getting hammered by the idiots in the tech media and retards on message boards like these.

As soon as Apple started fighting back those same people were "outraged" by what Apple was doing.

Comical.

QFT

Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

Apple was guilty of false advertising.

What false advertising? Please be specific.

Quote:
Originally Posted by djmikeo View Post

I love Apple, but the fact that Apple stepped down to the level of it's competitors seemed childish. All they needed to do was give out the bumper, and not bring other companies into it. It did not seem professional. I sometimes wonder if Apple still thinks that it is a Start-Up company and not one of the largest tech companies in the world. Take the high road, take care of your customers and take the profit to the bank.

And let the rest of the world think that the iPhone was unique in suffering from antenna issues while the competitors were running full page ads making fun of the iPhone? That would be an insanely stupid response.
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post #47 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

Good. It was getting lame.

Agreed. Lame and TACKY. This is the kind of nonsense that Apple needs to stay away from. All I got from it is the idea that Apple was suffering from sour grapes and was trying to take any and everyone down with them. Tacky. They need to stand up to the problem without trying to lay blame on others.
post #48 of 89
They did stand up to the problem by pointing out the truth, not laying down and letting the zealots ride roughshod all over them.

Where did they "lay blame on others"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

Agreed. Lame and TACKY. This is the kind of nonsense that Apple needs to stay away from. All I got from it is the idea that Apple was suffering from sour grapes and was trying to take any and everyone down with them. Tacky. They need to stand up to the problem without trying to lay blame on others.
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post #49 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsm View Post

Who was taking out FULL PAGE ADS in the New York Times taking advantage of the iPhone antenna hysteria?

Apples competitors were asking for it and they got it.

All the whiners were loving it when Apple was doing nothing and getting hammered by the idiots in the tech media and retards on message boards like these.

As soon as Apple started fighting back those same people were "outraged" by what Apple was doing.

Comical.

i have to agree. and now they've done their job, and the issue has been shown to be a very minor one when on a decent network, they're redundant.
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post #50 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

In my own "testing" I found that I couldn't even reproduce my own results. I tried holding the phone different ways both in and out of the case and found a inexplicable lack of consistency. In worst case scenarios I had bars go down one time, and up the next. There are so many variables in play that the best one can hope for are macro results. Zeroing in micro on one video of one instance is probably futile. Do enough tests and shoot enough video and you can make any phone do anything. Either way it helped Apple, I think. It instilled their own FUD about their critics.

That is what it felt like to me too. Fight FUD with FUD. The real question is did they have any other choice? I hate FUD as much as the next guy, but the media didn't want to put the issue in context and made the problem out to be a whole lot worse then it was in reality. It is always hard to reason with the irrational. These tactics are easier to forgive from someone backed in to the corner (and the other phone makers threw the first stone anyway).
post #51 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHOBIZ View Post

I would say customers pointed first...

Good point, but we were only comparing Apple and other manufacturers.
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post #52 of 89
Like Tiger Woods, the manufactured image has been soiled. They could have easily gotten in front of the problem early but they decided to deny it until it blew up in their faces. Apple obviously did not test both the hardware or software sufficiently and acted like Bill Clinton when the soiled red dress was produced. Now the 4G is cursed and the 3G and 3GS customers, me included are stuck with poor performing iPhones.

They should never had mentioned the other phones because it only made themselves look bad. I suspect that Apples Legal Dept. failed to advice them that doing so would expose them to legal actions. Besides, it is poor form to criticize your opponent in sport or business, it brings you down to their level.
post #53 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

Good. It was getting lame.

Do you go to that page so often it was getting lame?
But now the single video still there is not lame after watching it how many times?
post #54 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Why [bring back Field Test Mode]? End users typically don't know what it means or how it works. People who DO need that information have more sophisticated test equipment than FTM. The fact that a tiny number of geeks like playing with FTM isn't justification for including it.

Bravo! You do a stupendous shuck-and-jive, but it's really unnecessary...
Field Test Mode isn't as complexicated as you suggest. Bring back Field Test Mode, so even nudnik fanboys can show all of us whiners how we were so terribly wrong to complain about iPhone 4 signal attenuation.

Except that wouldn't happen. Field Test Mode would expose the performance of the iPhone 4 antenna and expose Apple's tactics. Ergo Apple will not bring back Field Test Mode. Perhaps someone will do it in a jailbreak system, though. I'll bet you lay awake quivering over that possibility.

Apple lacks the integrity to include Field Test Mode itself on the iPhone 4.
post #55 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

They did stand up to the problem by pointing out the truth, not laying down and letting the zealots ride roughshod all over them.

Where did they "lay blame on others"?

By hiding their own antennae grounding problem by focusing on a well known issue instead?

It's a bit different if a single finger in a normal grip (not death grip) causes the effective length of the antenna to change, thus changing the reception characteristics vs. adding an RF insulating layer on top of the antenna with a "death grip". Two totally different issues of which the other is IP4 specific, the other is just normal physics. Take an FM radio, touch it's antenna. Hear any change?

Try shrouding any phone in thick aluminum/aluminium foil, see what happens. It's the death grip issue, just a more pronounced insulation of the antenna.

Regs, Jarkko

P.S. I'm not replying specifically to hill60. Just to the fact that most seem to be happy with Apple's deflection of the actual issue (that being the exposed antenna which can be grounded by touch) to a standard issue (if you insulate an antenna, you attenuate the signal).
post #56 of 89
So how come when I tried it on a couple of iPhone 4's on different networks nothing happened?

I don't have insulated fingers as they work a capacitive screen so there is electricity there.

Why are so many people having trouble reproducing the "issue"?

You are just babbling nonsense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jahonen View Post

By hiding their own antennae grounding problem by focusing on a well known issue instead?

It's a bit different if a single finger in a normal grip (not death grip) causes the effective length of the antenna to change, thus changing the reception characteristics vs. adding an RF insulating layer on top of the antenna with a "death grip". Two totally different issues of which the other is IP4 specific, the other is just normal physics. Take an FM radio, touch it's antenna. Hear any change?

Try shrouding any phone in thick aluminum/aluminium foil, see what happens. It's the death grip issue, just a more pronounced insulation of the antenna.

Regs, Jarkko

P.S. I'm not replying specifically to hill60. Just to the fact that most seem to be happy with Apple's deflection of the actual issue (that being the exposed antenna which can be grounded by touch) to a standard issue (if you insulate an antenna, you attenuate the signal).
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post #57 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmikeo View Post

I love Apple, but the fact that Apple stepped down to the level of it's competitors seemed childish. All they needed to do was give out the bumper, and not bring other companies into it. It did not seem professional.

C'mon, the business world is not a bunch of kids on the playground saying please and thank-you and sharing their lunch boxes It's adults and there's billions of dollars at stake, and if someone attacks your brand you need to send a message by attacking theirs right back. Now that the message has been sent the videos can be taken down. Also, some of those other companies were trying to make out that their products were immune which was BS.
post #58 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

So how come when I tried it on a couple of iPhone 4's on different networks nothing happened? I don't have insulated fingers as they work a capacitive screen so there is electricity there. Why are so many people having trouble reproducing the "issue"?

You are just babbling nonsense.

"Babbling nonsense"... are you serious? Jahonen's comment was the most succinct and well written explanation of the issue I've ever read. The FM radio antenna analogy is apt and accurate.

The answer to your question, I believe, is mainly that it depends on the signal quality and strength in your area. Sticking with the FM radio analogy, touching the antenna won't always change the sound quality. It depends on the quality and strength of the FM signal.

I've also heard that someone with greasy, sweaty and fat hands will detune an antenna more than a thin person with dry, clean skin. I'm not sure if the effect would be pronounced enough to be a factor however.
post #59 of 89
If I can't reproduce it there is no issue for me, he's babbling nonsense to me and incidentally to anyone else who cannot reproduce the issue, which seems to be a vast majority.

Babble babble babble iPhone 4 is acting as an advanced Theremin tuning and detuning like other phones babble, babble, gobbledygook in a quasi-scientific bulldust kind of way.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

"Babbling nonsense"... are you serious? Jahonen's comment was the most succinct and well written explanation of the issue I've ever read. The FM radio antenna analogy is apt and accurate.

The answer to your question, I believe, is mainly that it depends on the signal quality and strength in your area. Sticking with the FM radio analogy, touching the antenna won't always change the sound quality. It depends on the quality and strength of the FM signal.

I've also heard that someone with greasy, sweaty and fat hands will detune an antenna more than a thin person with dry, clean skin. I'm not sure if the effect would be pronounced enough to be a factor however.
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post #60 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

If I can't reproduce it there is no issue for me, he's babbling nonsense to me and incidentally to anyone else who cannot reproduce the issue, which seems to be a vast majority.

Babble babble babble iPhone 4 is acting as an advanced Theremin tuning and detuning like other phones babble, babble, gobbledygook in a quasi-scientific bulldust kind of way.

I know the concepts are hard to grasp but if you're ever going to have a chance at understanding them it is now, so (assuming you actually want to know) I'd suggest putting a bit of effort in.
post #61 of 89
You want scientific?

Synopsis

It has been hypothesised that bridging two antennas on an iPhone 4 with a fingertip detunes them so that there is a noticeable loss in reception.
An experiment was set up to test the hypothesis, results were recorded and showed that no observable effect occurs to an iPhone 4 when the antennas are bridged with a fingertip.


Hypothesis.

Touching a point on the lower left hand corner of an iPhone 4 so that the adjacent strips of metal which form the dual antennas separated by a narrow black band are bridged by a fingertip causes the iPhone 4 to lose signal and drop calls.

Experiment.

Three subjects were instructed to hold an iPhone 4 in one hand and apply a finger tip to the two piece antenna structure in the lower left corner in such a way that the black band separating the two antennas was bridged by the fingertip.

Two iPhone 4's were used in the experiment both newly activated, one on the Vodafone Australia network the other on Virgin Australia using the Optus network.

Results

Observation 1. Subject A using iPhone 4 A, Vodafone Australia SIM card 5 bars showing.

Touching the point resulted in 5 bars showing.

Observation 2. Subject B using iPhone 4 A, Vodafone Australia SIM card 5 bars showing.

Touching the point resulted in 5 bars showing.

Observation 3. Subject C using iPhone 4 A, Vodafone Australia SIM card 5 bars showing.

Touching the point resulted in 5 bars showing.

Observation 4. Subject A using iPhone 4 B, Virgin Australia SIM card on the Optus network 5 bars showing.

Touching the point resulted in 5 bars showing.

Observation 5. Subject B using iPhone 4 B, Virgin Australia SIM card on the Optus network 5 bars showing.

Touching the point resulted in 5 bars showing.

Observation 6. Subject A using iPhone 4 B, Virgin Australia SIM card on the Optus network 5 bars showing.

Touching the point resulted in 5 bars showing.

Conclusion

Touching the bottom left corner of an iPhone 4 in such a way that the two pieces of metal on either side of a black dividing strip are connected via a finger tip has no observable effect on the iPhone 4's reception.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

I know the concepts are hard to grasp but if you're ever going to have a chance at understanding them it is now, so (assuming you actually want to know) I'd suggest putting a bit of effort in.
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post #62 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

"Babbling nonsense"... are you serious? Jahonen's comment was the most succinct and well written explanation of the issue I've ever read. The FM radio antenna analogy is apt and accurate.

This kind of one-side narrow minded argument hurt your credibility. So what if it affect the phone in poor reception area? You just move your finger a little. Just this little movement and in return you'll get better reception in a lot more places. How is that an issue? You yourself should put a bit of effort in grasping this concept.
I agree with hill60, this all is babbling about.
post #63 of 89
Gыzmooo-O-oodo is ridiculous.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #64 of 89
.

Wearing the sword is more effective keeping the peace than using the sword!

.
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post #65 of 89
When Apple keep shut and quite it's 'stop being ignorant!' Then if we have then report there findings it's 'I CAN'T BELIVE IT, I WON'T BELIVE IT, I'M SO DEEP, MY HEART CANNOT ACCEPT, NO, NO, NO, MUST NOT GIVE IN TO APPLE!' The real 'cult' of the future is going to be Android. The main hating comes from Android users who need to believe that Android is superior to iPhone. I suppose it's natural. I mean users of a platform with less market always look for some superiority complex (see Macintosh). Apple currently delivers a better all round product so Mac users complex is fulfilled, but I do think Android is falling short.
post #66 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

Bravo! You do a stupendous shuck-and-jive, but it's really unnecessary...
Field Test Mode isn't as complexicated as you suggest. Bring back Field Test Mode, so even nudnik fanboys can show all of us whiners how we were so terribly wrong to complain about iPhone 4 signal attenuation.

Except that wouldn't happen. Field Test Mode would expose the performance of the iPhone 4 antenna and expose Apple's tactics. Ergo Apple will not bring back Field Test Mode. Perhaps someone will do it in a jailbreak system, though. I'll bet you lay awake quivering over that possibility.

Apple lacks the integrity to include Field Test Mode itself on the iPhone 4.

Integrity? Do you have any idea how foolish that sounds?

It's a test mode that is meaningless to the consumer. It has no value. I don't want Apple spending time and money developing and supporting things with no value. I'd rather have them spending their money on important things.

If you want to jailbreak your phone so you have field test mode, go right ahead. Oh, wait. You don't even own an iPhone 4 - you're only here to come up with as many silly Apple-bashing arguments as you can for some pathetic reason.
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post #67 of 89
It did it's job in stopping the flow of negative momentum that was beginning to tarnish their image. Now that sales have once again shown their brand image is just fine, good time to remove it before it seems vindictive.

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post #68 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

This kind of one-side narrow minded argument hurt your credibility. So what if it affect the phone in poor reception area? You just move your finger a little. Just this little movement and in return you'll get better reception in a lot more places. How is that an issue? You yourself should put a bit of effort in grasping this concept.
I agree with hill60, this all is babbling about.

Point to the place in my post where I SAID IT WAS A F***ING "ISSUE"


If you feel like playing a game of "who's phone is better" then leave me out of it.
post #69 of 89
Only thing that came out of Antennagate was some free bumbers and a guarantee that IPHONE5 will be redesigned to address he issue.

Other countries not reporting a problem as they have better cell service than America.
post #70 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

You want scientific?

It was scientific until the conclusion, at which point you make too many assumptions. If you actually understand the scientific method (which I guess you do after that post) I'm thinking you already know what those assumptions were.
post #71 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogerman2000 View Post

It was lame from the start. Smart move to remove.

It was not at all lame. What's lame is that apple is doing Consumer Reports' and the media's job for them. Now the job is done and we can move on.
post #72 of 89
The funny thing about this is a lot of people claimed Apple was dishonest in its press conference - which wasn't true, they were actually shockingly honest, including stating their contempt for the media - and meanwhile the other handset manufacturers OUTRIGHT LIED about their phones not being susceptible to signal attenuation and were repeatedly caught in the lie by both Apple and independent testers and yet, of course, the tech media just looked the other way.
post #73 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Gilling View Post

The real 'cult' of the future is going to be Android. The main hating comes from Android users who need to believe that Android is superior to iPhone.

A little left field here but I'm going to guess that a majority of people running Android in the future won't even know they are running Android.

Like iOS, Android lends itself well to embedded devices. Within 5 years you're going to see Android popping up in things like printers, routers, TVs, AMPS/receivers, photo frames, alarm clocks, GPS', in-car entertainment systems, NAS devices, children's toys, remote controls, home automation and maybe even the occasional phone

In the "connected world" most of the devices (and especially the ones designed for single specific tasks) will be running Android.
post #74 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by techno View Post

It did it's job in stopping the flow of negative momentum that was beginning to tarnish their image. Now that sales have once again shown their brand image is just fine, good time to remove it before it seems vindictive.

.

"Put up with it and you will get more of it."

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post #75 of 89
if you are still having reception issues, the clock is ticking... TAKE IT BACK AND GET YOUR EFFIN' FULL REFUND!!!
The iP4 has the best reception of all iPs.
Don't hold it in that unnatural way!
(personal i bridge the gap daily to test if just by chance I can reproduce it-well needless to say, I CANNOT REPRODUCE IT!!)
I wonder how many people would be bridging the gap had they never been told where it was and how to do it. Honestly I think those with issues are LOOKING for issues. They need to grow up and get an HTC EVO-or a lan line.
post #76 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by poke View Post

The funny thing about this is a lot of people claimed Apple was dishonest in its press conference - which wasn't true, they were actually shockingly honest, including stating their contempt for the media - and meanwhile the other handset manufacturers OUTRIGHT LIED about their phones not being susceptible to signal attenuation and were repeatedly caught in the lie by both Apple and independent testers and yet, of course, the tech media just looked the other way.

Nokia and RIM didn't seem to lie. I guess it's like that when you have a team of lawyers looking over ever word you write
post #77 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

I guess the positive stories coming from the International launch are doing a better job at nullifying the damage being done by a pack of mainly American whiners than all the videos pointing out the truth were doing.

Sued?

For what?

"Give me your tired, your poor,

Your death grip obsessed, whining masses yearning to be drop out free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"



powerful post

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post #78 of 89
Ok, reality check here guys.

Go look at the Motorola Droid X video. No seriously, go look at it.

Check out how he is holding the phone. See his fingers? They're wrapped ENTIRELY around the device. Now tell me this, do you know of ANYONE who holds the phone like that while on a call? ANYONE. For one thing, his finger is COVERING the Mic (so he's not doing it for calls) and it's also covering the screen, so no web surfing like that either.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJG7pbSRvJ8

The answer is no because he's holding the thing like a marathon stick not a phone. It's entirely un-natural.

Now go look up a video about the Iphone Antenna issue. Check how they are holding it. This is an entirely NATURAL position for a lot of users:
Cnet:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGxENOp4XUQ


This is beyond the issue of "it only effected a few users" or "other people did it first."

For one, isn't apple supposed to be the superior company? Then why do the petty 4yr trick of "Jimmy does it TOOOO MOOOOM!" Secondly, the "jabs" other companies made were paper ads that had a funny one liner. What apple did would be akin to having ATT do a commercial where they took a verizon (or sprint/tmobile) phone, shoved it in a lead box and said "see? they drop signal too!"

It was poorly done by Apple, and petty to boot. If you're going to make the claim that other phones suffer from the same issues, you need to show the phones doing the same thing when held the same way.
post #79 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

Point to the place in my post where I SAID IT WAS A F***ING "ISSUE"


If you feel like playing a game of "who's phone is better" then leave me out of it.


So it's not an issue, then what is Apple hiding jahonen talking about that you're so supportive?
It is time to move on but some people still hellbent on clinging to it.
post #80 of 89
Antennagate was soooo July. It's now August. Get with the times!

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