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Piracy problems undermine Android's growth against iPhone - Page 2

post #41 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper View Post

Except it's not an article - "article" would imply balance which this piece lacks. For instance, the headline might more properly be "Despite Android's 886% growth TYT, some enterprise security issues may hold back adoption." or words to that effect.

This article is about developers and software sales, not hardware sales. Do you need someone to explain the difference between software and hardware?

This is the really funny thing about the position you Android whiners are taking. On one hand, you'll whine that Apple has a monopoly in online software sales because they have 96% of that market.

Then, in the very next breath, you'll say "Android's software sales are doing just fine. Look at how fast their hardware sales are growing".

If you don't get how silly that argument is, ask someone to explain it to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

90% in asia, 70% in Europe, 40% in US?

This either makes me very glad about level US morality or very sad about the level of US tech education, sadly I think it's the latter.

Either way 40% is still way too high, and i hope it never gets that bad on the app store.

I suspect that it's a different reason and has nothing to do with morality. For a large chunk of Americans, $1.99 for an app is so cheap that it's not worth the time to find out how to steal it. For many Asians (and a significant number of Europeans, particularly in Eastern Europe), that's a big enough number that it's worth finding a way to get it without paying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

Piracy can create markets too.

People use a given piece of software, primarily because everyone else is using it. The more people who use something, the more that other people will use it. Rampant piracy creates an installed base that the people who always do pay for their software will naturally drift towards.

Oh, yes. The "it's OK to steal my music because it only makes the song more popular" argument.

What kind of bizarre logic makes you conclude that the easier it is to steal something, the more money the developer makes?
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post #42 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by macnyc View Post

Give me a break, at least he is well informed and has valid points.

There is non-stop Apple bashing in the press with people saying the most stupid and uninformed things. On top of that there are just as many asinine articles saying how absolutely perfect the Android phones are glossing over any negatives.

And by the way the problems have not been resolved.

Actually he's not informed. He missed a key release about android app security (that works for all OS releases out there right now) that addresses the piracy issue.

And we're not talking about those other articles, because those articles are invariably on an android centric site. this is an APPLE site, why do they continuously post crap about android?
post #43 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

Piracy can create markets too.

When the Russian marketplace opened up, SCO decided to sell Xenix/Unix. They already had 95% (or so) of that market, but had only sold one copy

The challenge was to convert that to paying customers...
post #44 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Napoleon_PhoneApart View Post

Are you over here causing trouble, Dave?

rofl


hey, if it's true. it's true.
post #45 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

This article is about developers and software sales, not hardware sales. Do you need someone to explain the difference between software and hardware?

This is the really funny thing about the position you Android whiners are taking. On one hand, you'll whine that Apple has a monopoly in online software sales because they have 96% of that market.

Then, in the very next breath, you'll say "Android's software sales are doing just fine. Look at how fast their hardware sales are growing".

If you don't get how silly that argument is, ask someone to explain it to you.

The headline of this piece reads "Piracy problems undermine Android's growth against iPhone" which is talking about the platforms. The Android platform is measured by the number of HW devices running Android. The iPhone platform is measured by the number of iPhones running iOS. Quite simple really - the author's headline expresses the intent of his message, regardless of any inference you may draw to the contrary. I trust that's explained the "difference between software and hardware" sufficiently for you to understand the author's meaning?

My alternate headline suggestion references a possible reason that Android uptake may be inhibited; as in low uptake in the enterprise, not some imagined resistance from 3rd party developers for reasons that have already been debunked here and elsewhere. While I may over-estimate that possibility, it will be, in my opinion, more likely to affect Android uptake than the baseless speculation Dilger claims with no logic at all.

I have no idea who the "Android whiners" are that complain about a "monopoly in online software sales", and I certainly have never done so. Either you mistake me for some other poster or you are making stuff up again.

If you can't be bothered at least taking the time to attribute to me things I actually said, then you're desperate to manufacture a point, or else your comprehension is sub-par. I'm happy to defend the things I write, but your transparent attempts at point-scoring by hoisting strawmen, is just proof of how truly desperate you have become.

And your whining about "whiners" is really ironic.
post #46 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menno View Post

It's VERY hard to find quality paid applications unless you know specifically what you're looking for. This is one of the reasons blogs go out of their way to post QR codes for every app they review.

And youre pro-Android? That doesnt exactly instill user confidence.
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post #47 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by macnyc View Post

There is non-stop Apple bashing in the press with people saying the most stupid and uninformed things. On top of that there are just as many asinine articles saying how absolutely perfect the Android phones are glossing over any negatives.

Don't blame the media because it's idiotic. I'm sure nobody was complaining (including you) when the press heaped praise upon Apple or when major news networks covered every iPhone launch. You take the good with bad.

Who really cares about how certain reviewers have certain biases? If you don't like them don't read them. There are plenty of unbiased reviewers such as Pogue.
post #48 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

And youre pro-Android? That doesnt exactly instill user confidence.

Yes I am. See, I can appreciate a platform and even use it as my daily driver without insisting everything that it does it perfect.

Free apps like App Brain (with a web portal counterpart) make finding apps a lot easier, but the market is still Android's weakest part. There is no shame in saying this. It's still an excellent platform, just not the most lucrative one for paid app developers atm.
post #49 of 217
Oh tut tut. Who would ever have thought this would happen on the Android platform? Can it be that Android fans like stealing software? Maybe they also like developing malware for the Android platform as well? When will the anti-Apple geeks on these threads wake up that they are backing the horse that is destined to come last. When Apple finally frees itself from the exclusive deal with AT&T, Android will fade quickly into history unless Google learns the lessons from Apple's iOS.
post #50 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper View Post

If Android's 886% growth

Growth of what? Free downloads? Or revenue?

Geeks get hot and bothered over market share numbers and "keeping score".

All the developers I know get excited over revenue. Guess which app store is providing more revenue?
post #51 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menno View Post

Yes I am. See, I can appreciate a platform and even use it as my daily driver without insisting everything that it does it perfect.

Free apps like App Brain (with a web portal counterpart) make finding apps a lot easier, but the market is still Android's weakest part. There is no shame in saying this. It's still an excellent platform, just not the most lucrative one for paid app developers atm.

Excellent platform for whom? The average consumer? I don’t think so. For tinkering youth it seems great but so is a jailbroken iOS device and other platforms.

Case in point, I was asked just today for an Android app that would facilitate moving pics from the phone to a PC. I’d expect it to built in feature but the fact that it’s not simple enough that I was even asked is telling.

So Android has some major issues. It’s not acceptable for corporate use nor consumer friendly like other mobile OSes that are designed by vendors, and now you say its greatest asset, being a modern App Phone, is the weakest part of the entire Android setup when i thought it was the strongest thing it had going for it. That pretty much makes it’s use and popularity based on the fact that it’s free.
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post #52 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post

Wow, Daniel Eran Dilger is going all out with his anti-Android articles.

Wow, someone sounds terribly threatened. Tell us - what part of the article was factually, demonstrably inaccurate? What's that? NONE of it? Oh, well then. By all means launch a personal attack on the author, since that's all you've got.
post #53 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregAlexander View Post

It's just that Daniel's articles are a significant different quality to the rest of AppleInsider.

And yet you still read it...

And yet you posted a comment about it...

methinks thou doth protest too much

And they are clearly labeled. His name is right there under the title. If you weren't bothered enough to not read and then comment on it, it can't be that much of a hardship to click on the article, see his byline and then press the back button in your browser.

Personally I think he's spot on. The heat is on because some developers and agitators think they have leverage to try to force Apple to change models. As time goes on their "window" closes that much more - hence the frenzy of denial, two for one specials, paying of manufacturers to produce and develop for the platform (tho not as blatant as Microsoft's payola for Windows Phone system 7 or whatever the new ridiculous name is). Things like rampant piracy and low purchase rates are glossed over, dismissed or otherwise panned.

Why is this significant, even to an Apple site? Mobile is the next big platform - it's going to easily eclipse traditional computing by an order of magnitude. The fight is on! Expect the fireworks to increase, not decrease.
post #54 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

I'm wondering why DED is talking so much about Android piracy instead of trying to focus on how Apple's security was breached to allow the jailbreak exploit.

Probably because they are separate issues and it was covered in two other articles?

Really? This is the best you have?
post #55 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Excellent platform for whom? The average consumer? I don’t think so.

Case in point, I was asked just today for an Android app that would facilitate moving pics from the phone to a PC. I’d expect it to built in feature but the fact that it’s not simple enough that I was even asked is telling.

So Android has some major issues. It’s not acceptable for corporate use nor consumer friendly like other mobile OSes that are designed by vendors, and now you say its greatest asset, being a modern App Phone, is the weakest part of the entire Android setup when i thought it was the strongest thing it had going for it. That pretty much makes it’s use and popularity based on the fact that it’s free.

The "app" you are looking for is called Drag and Drop. If you plug it into a windows PC, it will ask you if you want to transfer images in a convenient little pop up window. The fact that you were asked means whoever asked you hasn't used a computer in a couple of years. Until the iPhone, this was pretty much the way EVERY company synced media with their phone/PDA. You should tell your friend to stop assuming every OS is going to mimic the iphone on every point. If you want something to sync everything for you, there are plenty of Free software programs for your PC that will do this that are a GOOGLE search away. Seriously, anyone who uses any form of technology and isn't 90 years old knows what a flash drive is.

And yet, if I want to pull pictures from my ipod touch off onto my brother's laptop, I can't without resorting to some pretty creative workarounds. The price you pay for "seamless" syncing is that it's very inflexible. You'd be surprised how many iPhone users I've demonstrated muti-computer synching with (a useful ability) and they thought that such a thing was impossible.

It is increasingly acceptable for corporate use. Remember, out of the box, the iphone was horrible for enterprise as well. It took several revisions to even get there. Froyo fills in most of those security gaps. And Android is pretty darn consumer friendly out of the box. It's not an iphone, so people assuming it will work just the same need to get their head on straight. But give someone an android phone who isn't totally locked on another OS, and they'll have all the basics (what a consumer uses) down in a matter of days, if not sooner. THe UI is extremely intuitive, but people coming from the iphone WON'T think so because they expect everything to work like their previous phone or its "not as good."

The App store monetization is the weakest part of the android market right now. You can find pretty much any app you want (except games, which are lacking) with a simple search. Finding good quality paid apps is harder. Finding free ones/the select few featured apps is a piece of cake. All it really needs is a better search algorithm (which shouldn't be hard for google), and a better way to feature paid apps with high ratings in search results. The other main thing holding the paid app marketplace back is because it doesn't have a music ecosystem like itunes behind it. With itunes there are giftcards, and non-smartphone devices (ipod/ipad) that use the same platform, so games, etc, can hit a better target audience. This can't happen overnight. If apple would've launched their app store Cold (no itunes before it) it would've taken a lot longer to build up as well.

A phone does NOT have to mimic the iphone to be "easy to use" or "useful" just like Apple didn't need to mimic blackberry/winmo (the previous smartphone leaders) to make a product that a lot of people enjoy.
post #56 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menno View Post

The "app" you are looking for is called Drag and Drop. If you plug it into a windows PC, it will ask you if you want to transfer images in a convenient little pop up window. The fact that you were asked means whoever asked you hasn't used a computer in a couple of years. Until the iPhone, this was pretty much the way EVERY company synced media with their phone/PDA. You should tell your friend to stop assuming every OS is going to mimic the iphone on every point. If you want something to sync everything for you, there are plenty of Free software programs for your PC that will do this that are a GOOGLE search away.

You’ve jumped to some exceptionally incorrect conclusions. Explain to me how they can “drag and drop” wirelessly from their phone to the Mac PC. They have no sync cable, they have no cable and they have no home WiFi. If they expected it to work just like an iPhone they would have expected a USB cable to come with the phone.

Quote:
It is increasingly acceptable for corporate use. Remember, out of the box, the iphone was horrible for enterprise as well. It took several revisions to even get there. Froyo fills in most of those security gaps.

Which Fortune 500 companies have adopted Android?

Quote:
And Android is pretty darn consumer friendly out of the box. It's not an iphone, so people assuming it will work just the same need to get their head on straight. But give someone an android phone who isn't totally locked on another OS, and they'll have all the basics (what a consumer uses) down in a matter of days, if not sooner. THe UI is extremely intuitive, but people coming from the iphone WON'T think so because they expect everything to work like their previous phone or its "not as good."

You say this despite inconsistencies, the lack of oversight, the various changes any vendor can make (*cough* Sense UI *cough*), and perhaps worst of all the comments I hear from Android users like, “If you can’t do [x] on an Android phone you must be an idiot/deserve what you get”. Not everyone wants wants to tinker with their phone 24/7. They just want it to work right which is why RiM, MS and Apple have a leg up on Android here.

Quote:
The App store monetization is the weakest part of the android market right now. You can find pretty much any app you want (except games, which are lacking) with a simple search. Finding good quality paid apps is harder. Finding free ones/the select few featured apps is a piece of cake.

There were DOS apps that could do what Windows apps could do, but with more convenience and with a better experience, even if they were technically slower. That didnt’ stop the GUI from taking off. That’s what this argument reminds me when people say they can find “the same” app across different platforms but don’t mention how well it works for users. Have you see iPhone apps running on the iPad? They technically work but the experience is so bad that most people I know have deleted them. For instance, they use the Facebook webpage over the Facebook app, even though the Facebook app for the iPhone is great on the iPhone.

Quote:
A phone does NOT have to mimic the iphone to be "easy to use" or "useful" just like Apple didn't need to mimic blackberry/winmo (the previous smartphone leaders) to make a product that a lot of people enjoy.

It has to mimic usability.
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post #57 of 217
Google is ONLY interested in shoveling out as many android licesnses as possible to get the Google search bar out there - beyond that, they don't care, does it matter that every Android phoen has a different OS & OS face? Is the Google search bar working? DONE. People grabbing your personal info? Sure, we'll remotely shut them down AFTERWARDS ... hey, you're running a free Linux OS - you get what you pay for.
post #58 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Youve jumped to some exceptionally incorrect conclusions. Explain to me how they can drag and drop wirelessly from their phone to the Mac PC. They have no sync cable, they have no cable and they have no home WiFi. If they expected it to work just like an iPhone they would have expected a USB cable to come with the phone.

So you're expecting the phone to natively do something that apple cannot and then pointing that out as a reason it fails? And a USB cable comes with every android phone, unless they bought it used.

And this being a Mac centered site (or at least it was), and we're talking about syncing, and YOU talking about the iphone as a better option (and saying that the feature should be built in) the ONLY assumption anyone CAN make is you are talking about tethered syncing (which is also possible on an android phone, no apps. My brother has a mac and I do it all the time)

My friend has an Iphone, explain to me how he can wirelessly sync his pictures with his computer using only applications native to the OS.

So maybe you should try being a bit more clear next time.
post #59 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbelkin View Post

Google is ONLY interested in shoveling out as many android licesnses as possible to get the Google search bar out there - beyond that, they don't care, does it matter that every Android phoen has a different OS & OS face? Is the Google search bar working? DONE. People grabbing your personal info? Sure, we'll remotely shut them down AFTERWARDS ... hey, you're running a free Linux OS - you get what you pay for.

Maybe you should actually pick up and android phone, or at least read about it from someone who knows what android does (aka, not this site) before you shove your other foot in your mouth.
post #60 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menno View Post

but what percentage of downloads from the app store (discounting music and movies) are free?

Wow, just wow.

I can understand missing something if it's buried in a bunch of text...

But the answer to your question is in the freaking picture of a bar graph.

The graph!

/slaps forehead

Quote:
People are cheapskates.

And android users doubly so.

Quote:
The primary issue with paid apps on the market is the market application itself. It's VERY hard to find quality paid applications unless you know specifically what you're looking for. This is one of the reasons blogs go out of their way to post QR codes for every app they review.

Huh? I thought that was iTunes fatal flaw.

Look, sometimes the simplest explanation is the most likely.

People don't like paying for stuff when they can easily steal it, and Android makes that easy enough.

Apple's gonna have a similar issue if they can't get the jail breaking under control.
post #61 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Youve jumped to some exceptionally incorrect conclusions. Explain to me how they can drag and drop wirelessly from their phone to the Mac PC. They have no sync cable, they have no cable and they have no home WiFi. If they expected it to work just like an iPhone they would have expected a USB cable to come with the phone.


Which Fortune 500 companies have adopted Android?

Red Herring. This has NOTHING to do with your initial question. How many fortune 500 companies adopted the iphone 2G at launch? Like I said, it took SEVERAL revisions of the OS to get it to the point where companies would adopt it. Android is just getting there with Froyo, and google hasn't made a big corporate push yet like Apple did when they finally got their software up to par.

Quote:
You say this despite inconsistencies, the lack of oversight, the various changes any vendor can make (*cough* Sense UI *cough*), and perhaps worst of all the comments I hear from Android users like, If you cant do [x] on an Android phone you must be an idiot/deserve what you get. Not everyone wants wants to tinker with their phone 24/7. They just want it to work right which is why RiM, MS and Apple have a leg up on Android here.

Again, you're speaking from an apple centric point of view. People coming from virtually ANY other OS (yes, even RIM) wouldn't be asking these questions like you are. And there are a ton of people who wouldn't even consider Android without Sense, etc. The overlays broaden the market. The typical user doesn't care about what OS their phone is running, or if their row of icons looks exactly like the next person.

You're talking as if they're going to go from sense to stock to Blur and back again every few weeks. The AVERAGE consumer has their device for 2 years, and the AVERAGE consumer goes into get a new phone expecting they have to learn an new UI and they are a OK with it. I know this because I used to sell hundreds of phones to "average" consumers who couldn't care less about these points that we like arguing about so much online.

They want a phone that does what they want it to do, and for a majority of consumers, android (even android 1.5) does that. The MOMENT you start talking about forum posters, even on facebook, you're talking about fringe users, not the average user.

Quote:
There were DOS apps that could do what Windows apps could do, but with more convenience and with a better experience, even if they were technically slower. That didnt stop the GUI from taking off. Thats what this argument reminds me when people say they can find the same app across different platforms but dont mention how well it works for users. Have you see iPhone apps running on the iPad? They technically work but the experience is so bad that most people I know have deleted them. For instance, they use the Facebook webpage over the Facebook app, even though the Facebook app for the iPhone is great on the iPhone.

Then you misread me.

If I want to find an app to track my checkbook, I can find one on iOS and I can find one on android. I want a twitter client? Done.

Now, I might not be able to find Tweetaholic on android, but i can find Touiteur. I'm not saying "the same exact app" I'm saying an app that does what I need an app to do. For the record, I have both these twitter clients, I much prefer Touiteur in pretty much every aspect, but I know people who say the exact opposite, and that's fine.

Quote:
It has to mimic usability.

No, it has to be USABLE. iOS is usable, but it's not the only version of usability. Android, in all variations, is exceedingly usable, but different than iOS.

The reason so many iphone users hate android and think it's trash is because they expect it to act just like their current OS, but it doesn't, so they write it off.

My Macbook operates differently than the PC OS I've used for the past 10 years, does this mean it's not usable? I mean, it doesn't even have a right mouse button, does this automatically make it inferior? No, it makes it DIFFERENT.
post #62 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post

Wow, Daniel Eran Dilger is going all out with his anti-Android articles. He currently is averaging at least one every day. At this rate there'll soon be more Android news on this site than Apple news. In fact so far today there are two Android articles but only one related to the Mac (and that is about Microsoft Office).

I suppose the real question is why? Has Daniel Eran Dilger got so little confidence in the iPhone that he feels it cannot stand on its own two feet and he must attack the competition to compensate? I have an iPhone. I bought it because I thought it was the best smartphone. I do not need articles like this to try and help me justify my purchase.

Agreed. Don't care for Android (now) and don't come here for Android news. Waste of space IMO.
Leave this to Android site. Now how about some in-depth piece about iBookstore or Multi-Tasking in new iPhone?
post #63 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menno View Post

Red Herring. This has NOTHING to do with your initial question. How many fortune 500 companies adopted the iphone 2G at launch? Like I said, it took SEVERAL revisions of the OS to get it to the point where companies would adopt it. Android is just getting there with Froyo, and google hasn't made a big corporate push yet like Apple did when they finally got their software up to par.

Its this kind of commentary that makes in impossible to a rational discussion with posters like you.

You bring up the very first iPhone and try to compare that to Android which has been out in the wild for nearly two years now. The iPhone only 3 years old.
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post #64 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

Agreed. Don't care for Android (now) and don't come here for Android news. Waste of space IMO.
Leave this to Android site. Now how about some in-depth piece about iBookstore or Multi-Tasking in new iPhone?

Agreed, we dont want to hear any of the wonders of the Android, leave that to a non-apple site. As an apple owner, dont think! The IPhone 4 is the best phone
post #65 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Wow, just wow.

I can understand missing something if it's buried in a bunch of text...

But the answer to your question is in the freaking picture of a bar graph.

The graph!

/slaps forehead

No, the bar graph shows the % of users who download at least one paid app a month, not the % of app downloads from the app store that are free. I think you'll find that if you took ALL app store downloads in a month, and looked at it, most of those downloads would be free. Yes, more apps are purchased in the app store than in the market, but that's NOT what I'm asking. On BOTH platforms, a majority of the apps downloaded are free, you're just talking a difference in %, not a paradigm shift.

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And android users doubly so.

In your opinion. Those articles linked are taking statistical data and interpreting it to make a headline. there are a TON of factors at work here. the iTunes ecosystem, visibility, etc.

Quote:
Huh? I thought that was iTunes fatal flaw.

Look, sometimes the simplest explanation is the most likely.

People don't like paying for stuff when they can easily steal it, and Android makes that easy enough.

Apple's gonna have a similar issue if they can't get the jail breaking under control.

And this is an entirely different point than the one the guy who posted the graph was trying to make. (and what you were trying to make earlier in this post).

It's comparatively easy to find paid apps in the app store. Not only is their an autocomplete/auto suggest when you search, but the categories make a lot more sense (and they have the top25 countdown), plus the gift card ecosytem, items like the ipod/ipad that are given to kids who spend daddies money (instead of daddy spending his own money), etc.

In this case, there are far to many factors to go off of the "simplest" answer
post #66 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It’s this kind of commentary that makes in impossible to a rational discussion with posters like you.

You bring up the very first iPhone and try to compare that to Android which has been out in the wild for nearly two years now. The iPhone only 3 years old.

And it's your responses that make any rational discussion impossible. You're making another Red Herring, and missing the issue entirely.

I brought up the first iphone to demonstrate a point. the first iphone didn't have enterprise comparability out of the box. It took several revisions to get it right, and more importantly, it took marketing BY Apple to make it such a big player.

Android, when launched, didn't have enterprise capability. Their first few revisions didn't do much for this because they were still working on market penetration. Now that they have a decent consumer base, they want to try and push into the lucrative Enterprise, so, like apple, they updated their software to play nice with enterprise servers (or at least nicer), and they will most likely (if they haven't already) start marketing their product heavily to businesses as enterprise solutions.

I was NOT using the iphone 2g as an excuse. I was saying that it took them time, just like it took apple time, to work in the support. Yes, it took them longer, but they're getting there. They needed market interest before they approached companies. Now they have it, so now they come out with enterprise solutions.

But your bullet point about fortune 500 companies only makes sense if the corp friendly OS was already out on a ton of consumer friendly handhelds (it's not, and I never made that claim) It's like all the ifans suddenly crowing about front facing cameras like they invented the idea. (Or an android fan spamming about multitasking in a discussion about paid app viability pre-ios4.0) It's not a valid argument for the discussion, and it was only thrown in there because you wanted some bullet point.\\

And while android has been out for 2 years, it was nothing more than a minor player until a little over a year ago. The Hero was the first android unit that really caught consumer's eye as something worth looking at, but android didn't explode until Verizon's Droid campaign made it mass market talking points. Say what you want about it, but the Droid advertisements boosted android from some "oh this is weird" handful of devices on tiny networks to something that mass media (and thus the public) paid attention to. Now major newspapers, tv stations, etc cover the devices. They've gone from something that was "only for tech nerds" to something everyday consumers (and thus employees) would be interested in. Most companies DON'T have business lines through Tmobile, at least not companies that need advanced exchange securities. Companies in the US use ATT/Verizon and smaller companies use Nextel/Sprint. You'll notice that when a device Launched on Verizon, it launched with the first build of their exchange support (though it was admittedly basic), so they started moving in that direction, 2.1 added more features, and 2.2 filled in most of the gaps. (just in time for their first real launch on ATT, the other big corporate carrier in the US)

Android needed to reach that point before it became worth it to invest into getting the device corporate ready. Apple, thanks to a phenomenal marketing team, a groundbreaking launch device, and a launch partner with the largest subscriber base in the us, reached that a year sooner (took one year instead of 2) Again, I used the original iphone example to point out the stupidity of your bullet point, not to directly compare the OS's.
post #67 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menno View Post

By your argument, Music piracy increases CD sales since so many people pirating the album will cause people who do pay for CD's to buy that album. Except it doesn't work like that.

It absolutely DOES work that way. The most pirated music is almost always the same albums as the most sold. Not only that, but the people who pirate the most music also purchase the most.
post #68 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menno View Post

I brought up the first iphone to demonstrate a point. the first iphone didn't have enterprise comparability out of the box. It took several revisions to get it right, and more importantly, it took marketing BY Apple to make it such a big player.

You brought up the point then twisted the facts. The iPhone was already in use by 35% of Fortune 500 companies in under a year after hitting the market.

Where is Android’s presence in the Enterprise after nearly double that time? Where is the Android beta program for the Enterprise? The fact remains that Android OS is not suited for the Enterprise by design. What it makes it great for you and others makes it bad for both the Enterprise and average consumer.
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post #69 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

It absolutely DOES work that way. The most pirated music is almost always the same albums as the most sold. Not only that, but the people who pirate the most music also purchase the most.

actually they don't. most people who pirate do so to avoid paying. And those albums would be popular without pirating. they were pirated because those people wanted popular albums
post #70 of 217
Wow...I'm glad this came to light. Yet another article about Android. What is that 2 in one day! Gee....find some more news. I find it really strange that now since Android is starting to roll out the Froyo Update this site is starting to yet...try and try to put Android down again. They must be afraid that people may jump ship or something, I really don't know. But what i do know is that I come to this site to read up on Apple news...not to see what Apple is doing in comparison to Android. Especially when it comes to App Piracy Because like it or not, There is some so call loyal Apple citizens...that jailbreak their devices just for free apps. I can go to numerous Apple forums and find threads about people requesting how to get fake apps etc. So one can say that it happens on both platforms. Something that would be more interesting to read and get the readers attention would be an article on what Apple is doing about this Antenna Problem..other than giving out these stupid cases.

When I go check up on Android news sites...the sites never talk about iphone as much as iphone sites talk about Android. Check Android Central or Phandroid. Maybe some of these writers feel threatend by Android....lol
post #71 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menno View Post

And it's your responses that make any rational discussion impossible. You're making another Red Herring, and missing the issue entirely.

I brought up the first iphone to demonstrate a point. the first iphone didn't have enterprise comparability out of the box. It took several revisions to get it right, and more importantly, it took marketing BY Apple to make it such a big player.

Android, when launched, didn't have enterprise capability. Their first few revisions didn't do much for this because they were still working on market penetration. Now that they have a decent consumer base, they want to try and push into the lucrative Enterprise, so, like apple, they updated their software to play nice with enterprise servers (or at least nicer), and they will most likely (if they haven't already) start marketing their product heavily to businesses as enterprise solutions.

I was NOT using the iphone 2g as an excuse. I was saying that it took them time, just like it took apple time, to work in the support. Yes, it took them longer, but they're getting there. They needed market interest before they approached companies. Now they have it, so now they come out with enterprise solutions.

But your bullet point about fortune 500 companies only makes sense if the corp friendly OS was already out on a ton of consumer friendly handhelds (it's not, and I never made that claim) It's like all the ifans suddenly crowing about front facing cameras like they invented the idea. (Or an android fan spamming about multitasking in a discussion about paid app viability pre-ios4.0) It's not a valid argument for the discussion, and it was only thrown in there because you wanted some bullet point.\\

And while android has been out for 2 years, it was nothing more than a minor player until a little over a year ago. The Hero was the first android unit that really caught consumer's eye as something worth looking at, but android didn't explode until Verizon's Droid campaign made it mass market talking points. Say what you want about it, but the Droid advertisements boosted android from some "oh this is weird" handful of devices on tiny networks to something that mass media (and thus the public) paid attention to. Now major newspapers, tv stations, etc cover the devices. They've gone from something that was "only for tech nerds" to something everyday consumers (and thus employees) would be interested in.

Android needed to reach that point before it became worth it to invest into getting the device corporate ready.

I'm not a tech nerd ( i would kill myself if i was), but it's just plain ugly and inconsistent. Most apps are crap. I know App Store is also full of crap, but at least UI is consistent and even if, let's say, 99% of apps are crap that leaves us with >2000 great quality apps. Add all recent security issues and i say NO THANKS. And people wan't more freedom in the App Store even with App Store control there are quite few security issues, so what was Google thinking about?

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post #72 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You brought up the point then twisted the facts. The iPhone was already in use by 35% of Fortune 500 companies in under a year after hitting the market.

Where is Androids presence in the Enterprise after nearly double that time? Where is the Android beta program for the Enterprise? The fact remains that Android OS is not suited for the Enterprise by design. What it makes it great for you and others makes it bad for both the Enterprise and average consumer.

and that design changes with FROYO. Like I freaking said initially. I NEVER made a claim that current android handsets were perfect for enterprise.

Forest for the Trees man.

Google isn't actively courting enterprise (yet), apple did. Don't underestimate the power that marketing has.

and again, where was android a year ago in the US? On a carrier with almost NO corp contracts, and on a phone that was considered by most to be a tech phone at best, and the average consumer didn't even know what android is. let alone did they want it badly enough to start pestering their IT department to support it.

The two were in two TOTALLY different markets at launch and until very recently still were.

If you can't see the difference between a barely advertised handset on a tiny network and the iphone, with two of the best know corporations behind it, with millions in advertising and an installed base of MILLIONS of iphone users, on the largest network in the US, the one used by more fortune 500 companies than any other network... I think you might want to look again.
post #73 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menno View Post

he needs to make a point to cause trouble

Just keep pretending that you don't understand what he is saying. Then put on your tinfoil hat and join your local Open Source Now! group.

With any luck you could be like the, oh I don't know, 3rd or 4th member?

Sweet!
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post #74 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Povilas View Post

I'm not a tech nerd ( i would kill myself if i was), but it's just plain ugly and inconsistent. Most apps are crap. I know App Store is also full of crap, but at least UI is consistent and even if, let's say, 99% of apps are crap that leaves us with >2000 great quality apps. Add all recent security issues and i say NO THANKS. And people wan't more freedom in the App Store even with App Store control there are quite few security issues, so what was Google thinking about?

How is the OS inconsistent? And beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Personally I find a row of icons on a screen pretty ugly. I also call it my app drawer.

And most of the "security flaws" are blown out of proportion. Do you know that over 20% of the free apps in the app store can access your contact information? Do you know which ones they are? At least android informs users of EXACTLY what those apps can access. My phone is just as secure as yours is unless I'm an idiot and don't use the tools offered to me. Android is not iOS, consumers shouldn't expect it to be.

Or the fact that the newest jail-breaking tool for the iphone4 is the same kind of script that could be used to infect phones (ala active script exploits on PC's with Internet Explorer). This is a story that SHOULD be on a website like AppleInsider, but instead they post poorly researched crap about a rival OS.
post #75 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by justflybob View Post

Just keep pretending that you don't understand what he is saying. Then put on your tinfoil hat and join your local Open Source Now! group.

With any luck you could be like the, oh I don't know, 3rd or 4th member?

Sweet!

Good to know you can't read AND you fail at humor.

I understand what he's saying, I'm saying he's wrong. And I've shown him why quite a few times in several threads. he's taking random op ed colums, a few graphs and using it to spread his trash. The problem isn't as simple as he would like to believe, but he can't admit that because that would mean he would actually have to do some research of his own instead of posting in big bold letters all the time.

Your comment about open source groups also has nothing to do with the conversation (in fact a member of said group would most likely agree with the person you're supporting) But then, you'd actually need to READ comments before responding to them to understand that.

I understand the difficulty, thinking is hard for a lot of people.
post #76 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post

Wow, Daniel Eran Dilger is going all out with his anti-Android articles. He currently is averaging at least one every day. At this rate there'll soon be more Android news on this site than Apple news. In fact so far today there are two Android articles but only one related to the Mac (and that is about Microsoft Office).

I suppose the real question is why? Has Daniel Eran Dilger got so little confidence in the iPhone that he feels it cannot stand on its own two feet and he must attack the competition to compensate? I have an iPhone. I bought it because I thought it was the best smartphone. I do not need articles like this to try and help me justify my purchase.

Please stop with these anti Google, anti Android articles and anti Microsoft articles and start posting more articles about Apple products. Thank you.

Excuse me but who the FK are you? The thought police? (No - I expect a paid shill.) The public needs to be informed about these issues as they are key competitors to Apple trying to steal their customers away, and by trying to copy everything that apple does. The fact of the matter is that even apple users need to be armed with the facts to be able to counter all the mis-information out there, and to evaluate these issues themselves since everyone is trying pile it on apple right now - like the absolutely ridiculous media feeding frenzy over the non-existant "antennagate". Further, the truth of the matter is that Google is the new evil...
post #77 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menno View Post

So you make a post about this...

But you completely ignore the post what? a WEEK ago? Where Google created a new anti-piracy measure (free for devs) for their apps, allowing them to "sign" them, and have those purchases checked against Android Market Records. Seriously, if you're going to report about android piracy, at least report what android is doing to prevent it.

Seriously, this is an APPLE BLOG. Stop posting about stuff not apple as 1) it has nothing to do with your products 2) you arn't taking the time to research the content, so you're making yourself look bad.

And Android apps have ALWAYS been linked to their gmail/google checkout account. The reason why piracy (up till now) was so easy for android was because of Google return policy, and the ability of android phones to install third party applications via sideloading. So an asshole could purchase an app on a phone, use a program like astro to "back it up." and then refund the purchase and install from the backup.

They then take the .apk (the app) and upload it to a warez site for others to install the same way.

This is negated by the new measure, which gives app authors the ability to make the app check the store at given intervals to make sure the Google account it's running on actually has a purchased version of the app.

If you're going to post a story, actually post a story. Don't just find the worst tidbit and harp on that while ignoring the actions ALREADY TAKEN to try and close the exploit you're talking on.

Hey Menno - go FK yourself! Daniel hit the nail on the head and you have no clue what you are talking about. The fact of the matter is that it is the techtards that are gravitating to Android and are trying to beat the system and steal the content. Your description of what has been going on exactly reinforces that point. Who are you a paid shill for anyway?
post #78 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

Good points (and likely to be ignored here). It's not really about how much piracy stunts Android's 10-fold YTY growth -- rather, the purpose of this and similar articles is to create negative attitudes towards opening up of Apple's ecosystem through the legalized jailbreaking. Android is simply being used as a scarecrow, much like the virus-ridden Windows.

There is no "legalized" jailbreaking - it was a frik'n person at the library of congress that said it is legal and this is bound to get overturned. When jailbreaking breaks the security of the device, people will be screaming.
post #79 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Excellent platform for whom? The average consumer? I dont think so. For tinkering youth it seems great but so is a jailbroken iOS device and other platforms.

Case in point, I was asked just today for an Android app that would facilitate moving pics from the phone to a PC. Id expect it to built in feature but the fact that its not simple enough that I was even asked is telling.

Transferring pictures from a phone to a PC is as simple as connecting the phone to the PC, clicking on the prompt that helpfully pops up to open the drive and copying the files. If the user is not sophisticated enough to do that, he could use Double Twist which will sync music, photos, videos etc - just like iTunes. If the user can't do that, then he should stick with the iPhone.

I have been using Android for close to 2 years now and have never purchased a single app - not because they are not good or too expensive, but because I have always looked for a free app and found one. But if I find an app that I need, I'll buy it. Can't imagine why anyone would want to pirate $2 software. But Piracy is certainly easy with Android, but you can only return a software once so I think you wouldn't be able to upgrade. I don't know since I have never purchased an app. Am I a cheap skate. I think so. But I think the bigger problem for developers is to be create apps that people will pay for instead of using high quality free apps. The free apps on the iPhone are nowhere near as good as the ones on the Android, so I can see why people who have only experienced the free apps on the iPhone might consider the apps on the Android lacking.

IMO, Android has long since left the iPhone behind in software. It was the hardware that was lacking. I just bought a Samsung Vibrant and for the first time, the hardware is actually ahead of the software. Android 2.2 and Gingerbread will be bringing features that will take advantage of the hardware (eg. using the GPU hardware acceleration, dpi, fonts etc.).

I also bought an iPod Touch (I prefer a separate device for music) and a iPad (for transferring my photos from my camera) last week and it's been ages since I used iTunes and I absolutely hate the way it works now and the fact that I have to use it to just activate the iDevices. I also hate the fact that I can't access the drives of the iPod anymore. I have already jailbroken the iPad so I could change the hosts file to block ads. I still find myself reaching for the Vibrant more than the iPad.

So as you can see, I'm now a big fan of Android. But that does not mean that I'm blind to Android's faults. One of the worst being the Market. Amongst other problems app discovery is poor. Ironic that search in a Google app is so poor. But there are sites like Cyrket and especially AndroidZoom that make it much easier. And I expect that the web based Market rumored to be available this year will once again do what Android has been doing for the last couple of years - leap frog Apple.
post #80 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by pirarre View Post

Wow...I'm glad this came to light. Yet another article about Android. What is that 2 in one day! Gee....find some more news. I find it really strange that now since Android is starting to roll out the Froyo Update this site is starting to yet...try and try to put Android down again. They must be afraid that people may jump ship or something, I really don't know. But what i do know is that I come to this site to read up on Apple news...not to see what Apple is doing in comparison to Android. Especially when it comes to App Piracy Because like it or not, There is some so call loyal Apple citizens...that jailbreak their devices just for free apps. I can go to numerous Apple forums and find threads about people requesting how to get fake apps etc. So one can say that it happens on both platforms. Something that would be more interesting to read and get the readers attention would be an article on what Apple is doing about this Antenna Problem..other than giving out these stupid cases.

When I go check up on Android news sites...the sites never talk about iphone as much as iphone sites talk about Android. Check Android Central or Phandroid. Maybe some of these writers feel threatend by Android....lol

the shill are coming out of the woodwork - it is the active misinformation campaigns of the android techtards that are fanning the flames
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