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RIM attempts to create Apple-like buzz with BlackBerry Torch event - Page 2

post #41 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

I have noticed that a lot of smart phones since the iPhone have looked a lot like the iPhone, down to copying its original shiny metallic-looking bezel (see Samsung Mystic, which is otherwise a crappy WinMo6 phone). Pressure based touch screens quickly gave way to capacitive touch screens, pen input was out, finger input was in, and everyone has full screens now.

I can't say you're wrong about that. But this Torch model seems like an attempt to merge the best attributes of the iPhone touch screen experience with the strengths of the classic Blackberry. Of course it's going to look like this. And yes, Apple fans (like me) will probably not get it. But it might be the right product for Blackberry.

I think there's room in the market for more than just the iPhone form factor, but few handset manufacturers seem willing to color outside of the lines drawn by Apple!

Agreed!

You kinda expect more from the pioneers. I'm actually shocked by the similarity in feature and function between all of these devices.

In my opinion, the iPhone 4 is a thing of beauty. I absolutely love the antenna design, the FaceTime, the gyroscope, Visual voicemail, the front and back glass - everything is on point and unique. Sure, it isn't perfect - but it's the closet thing to perfection that I've owned.
post #42 of 155
Yeah, I'm looking fwd to the unboxing photos and then the tear down photos.....Yawn!

Best
post #43 of 155
Even with Photoshop at their disposal, I'd think RIM could make the display look better than that. Yuck!
post #44 of 155
I think I'll stick wtih my iPhone 4.. it does look nice though, they did a good job.
post #45 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post

... Talking with people I know with Blackberries, the lack of a physical keyboard puts many of them off switching to an iPhone and those that do switch say a physical keyboard is the thing they miss the most.

I believe RiM's past attempts at a touchscreen only phone (the Storm and Storm 2) didn't sell very well. You have to cater to your audience and in the case of RiM that means including a physical keyboard.

Fair enough. But it's still a dwindling market of old-timers and young female messaging freaks IMO.

I would also argue that the main reason the storm failed, was the attempt to get the screen to "click" (ostensibly to satisfy this same group), in a gimmicky way that was immediately unpopular. It seems to me that since they have a new touchscreen OS (announced at the same event), and capable touchscreen hardware, that now is the time to make such a product.

If they just sit on the physical keyboard models they will be left behind for certain. If on the other hand they make products of both types, they may have a slim chance of success.
post #46 of 155
Well at least they didn't completely copy the iPhone GUI like some other phones.
post #47 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Whenever I see this line, I (like many people) just think "automatic fail." Virtual keyboards have proven themselves to be faster and easier to use in general than the ones with the little plastic keys and this is a full-screen touchscreen phone for cripes sake.

Anyone making a phone in this day and age with a plastic slide-out keyboard is basically making a phone for old folks or for dizzy chicks that wear too much makeup and have long fingernails. there's nothing wrong with making a phone for that crowd, but having a big Apple-esque event and making out like this is a revolutionary new product just makes them look dumb IMO.

If you're going to have a big event and introduce a revolutionary new product, it should actually *be* revolutionary. This thing just isn't.
.

Why do you hate old folks?
post #48 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by benice View Post

Fox News is considered the most trusted news source in America and you're trying to equate it somehow to a single issue website.

No it's not.

As if there was even a way to quantify that idea.
post #49 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by agolongo View Post

I dont mind it (The 9800) and OS6 looks to be vastly improved (Syncing over WIFI!). I know it doesnt have an Apple logo on the back so it wont get the majority of the Lemmings on this site to give it any consideration.

"Apple-Like" Buzz? How do you know this, are you attending the event? Or is it a standard launch event like any other product? If it was truly an Apple-like event the audience would consist of a bunch or irrational disciples crying with every word that flowed out of the speakers mouth, and looking desperately for genitals on the new tech monolith to make love to.

Didn't you get the message? Any company that holds an event to announce new products is automatically copying Apple. My company sells clothes. I'm sure our NYC runway show will be nothing but a copy of Apple.
post #50 of 155
I may be an iPhone lover, but being that I live in the Waterloo area (where RIM is headquartered) and some of my paycheque actually comes from RIM funding, this seems very wrong that one of RIM's biggest products in a long time is being introduced on a US Carrier.
post #51 of 155
What kind of a roll out is it when everything is done on PowerPoint with no live demonstrations. This doesn't look like much of a threat to Apple. It may effect sales of Android Phones and HTC. The Apple IPhone, ITunes, Macintosh, IPod, And IPad is a solid integrated System line-up that won't be breached easily. Facetime insures that Apple will be Number 1 in the SmartPhone market for the foreseeable future!
post #52 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Whenever I see this line, I (like many people) just think "automatic fail." Virtual keyboards have proven themselves to be faster and easier to use in general than the ones with the little plastic keys and this is a full-screen touchscreen phone for cripes sake.

As a general rule I'd agree but RiM is going after a certain user type and there will likely always be a subset of users that prefer physical keys (at least for the time being). I think this is the first touchscreen smartphone they have made that looks promising for both consumers and business users. I look forward to the review but I may have to buy this one to test it out.
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post #53 of 155
Torch? Ironically that's what I'd like to do to my work BlackBerry!
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post #54 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

As a general rule I'd agree but RiM is going after a certain user type and there will likely always be a subset of users that prefer physical keys (at least for the time being). I think this is the first touchscreen smartphone they have made that looks promising for both consumers and business users. I look forward to the review but I may have to buy this one to test it out.

I agree with you. RIM's audience of users is very different from the sorts iOS and Android are trying to gobble up, and it would be silly for RIM to morph its platform in an effort to clone these competitors (although that doesn't exclude the option of a specific phone meant to complete directly with them). I imagine the best thing they could do would be to evolve the features that make BlackBerry users love BlackBerry while at the same time adapting iOS/Android features which are badly needed by the BlackBerry platform (e.g. the WebKit based browser, better multimedia management, a reliable touch-screen interface combined, for the time being, with a great keyboard).

So while some might say BlackBerry = 'FAIL' for finding a middle ground, I'm looking forward to seeing a potential success here. They've got a very different demographic and if they play their cards right, they'll win back some of the loyalty they've been losing, and expand interest into other areas as well. Pending a review, this looks like a device I wouldn't hate to be stuck with in a business environment.
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post #55 of 155
First Blackberry Blackpad, now Blackberry Touch. Whatever happened to originality? It's all copy, copy, copy. Copy form and shape. You can only try to be like Apple, you can't beat them. Good to know Apple is finally getting the respect it deserves.
post #56 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vital0gy View Post

Why do you hate old folks?

Actually I'm one myself. I'm just not one of "those" old folks.

I don't "hate" old folks, It's just that I've always been of the opinion that *everyone* (including old folks), "should either get with it or get out of the way," as the saying goes.

I find it's usually best to expect constant change. A different, brand new world usually shows up every morning without fail.
post #57 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by halfyearsun View Post

No it's not.

As if there was even a way to quantify that idea.

Sure it's difficult to quantify and probably moves around. I was relying upon this report which suggested it. I don't really mind what it concludes but to equate AppleInsider with a network news service isn't useful either.

"Almost half of all Americans surveyed in the poll of 1,151 registered voters said they trusted Fox News. That is a notably larger vote of confidence than the 39% who said they trusted Fox's great rival CNN, and vastly more than the credibility ratings of the traditional news networks ABC News (31%), CBS News (32%) and NBC News (35%)."
post #58 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobo007 View Post

Did you just create an account to troll?

Please be polite to the trolls. No need to get into a name calling contest.
post #59 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Fair enough. But it's still a dwindling market of old-timers and young female messaging freaks IMO.

I would also argue that the main reason the storm failed, was the attempt to get the screen to "click" (ostensibly to satisfy this same group), in a gimmicky way that was immediately unpopular. It seems to me that since they have a new touchscreen OS (announced at the same event), and capable touchscreen hardware, that now is the time to make such a product.

If they just sit on the physical keyboard models they will be left behind for certain. If on the other hand they make products of both types, they may have a slim chance of success.

I'm a pretty hardcore fanboy too.. but I'm pretty sure RIM is fairly successful lol...
post #60 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Fair enough. But it's still a dwindling market of old-timers and young female messaging freaks IMO.

I would also argue that the main reason the storm failed, was the attempt to get the screen to "click" (ostensibly to satisfy this same group), in a gimmicky way that was immediately unpopular. It seems to me that since they have a new touchscreen OS (announced at the same event), and capable touchscreen hardware, that now is the time to make such a product.

If they just sit on the physical keyboard models they will be left behind for certain. If on the other hand they make products of both types, they may have a slim chance of success.

I am as big an apple fan as the next guy, my wife has an iPhone and I have an iPad, but this comment is a little shortsighted in my opinion. The keyboard on the blackberry is what has made it successful in its original core market, the business market. For the majority of these users, email and phone is what you use it for, not apps and the web. I think RIM is smart to try and combine the full screen for apps and web, and a physical keyboard for email. Additionally, RIM puts some intelligence into their keyboard design, unlike the Palm Pre or even the Droid with its terrible keyboard.

One thing that RIM is finally starting to capitalize on for the consumer market is BB Messenger. People are sticking with their BlackBerry's because their friends have them and using BBM is free and very convenient. This phone could help with the texting/web trade off too.

My 2 cents.
post #61 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Fair enough. But it's still a dwindling market of old-timers and young female messaging freaks IMO.

I would also argue that the main reason the storm failed, was the attempt to get the screen to "click" (ostensibly to satisfy this same group), in a gimmicky way that was immediately unpopular. It seems to me that since they have a new touchscreen OS (announced at the same event), and capable touchscreen hardware, that now is the time to make such a product.

If they just sit on the physical keyboard models they will be left behind for certain. If on the other hand they make products of both types, they may have a slim chance of success.

I agree on the bold and the OS. I think once they release a new virtual keyboard phone with the new OS that's actually made to be used that way, that they'll be just fine, and they've already expressed a desire to make one. It'll be some competition for Apple to keep them doing the right thing over the hacker-y droids.

The Bold was awful though, I hope they launch it with a new name. I met someone who had one, it was almost completely useless.
post #62 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorpit View Post

Torch? Ironically that's what I'd like to do to my work BlackBerry!



Btw, the product looks ugly. (I know it's a subjective opinion).
post #63 of 155
Why is this being compared to Apple? Apple generates buzz by trying to keep the product a secret. If anything it should be compared to a Microsoft launch event.
post #64 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophace View Post

I am as big an apple fan as the next guy, my wife has an iPhone and I have an iPad, but this comment is a little shortsighted in my opinion. The keyboard on the blackberry is what has made it successful in its original core market, the business market. For the majority of these users, email and phone is what you use it for, not apps and the web. I think RIM is smart to try and combine the full screen for apps and web, and a physical keyboard for email. Additionally, RIM puts some intelligence into their keyboard design, unlike the Palm Pre or even the Droid with its terrible keyboard.

One thing that RIM is finally starting to capitalize on for the consumer market is BB Messenger. People are sticking with their BlackBerry's because their friends have them and using BBM is free and very convenient. This phone could help with the texting/web trade off too.

My 2 cents.

Again, fair enough. But that market is dwindling all the same, and Blackberry is losing market share all the same.

BB messenger is also under attack also because the main reason it's popular is it's secure. This is why the business people use it and why smart young girls use it to text each other. Today Blackberry announced for the first time that they are be open to "changing" the way the service runs so that places like United Arab Emirates can spy on the communications. So say goodbye to the main reason for using BB Messenger.

I think they should keep making the old-style keyboard phones for their main market of course. What I'm saying is that they should also be making a touch-screen model that echews the physical keyboard if they want to stay in the same position in the market. They are losing share, and losing hearts and minds.
post #65 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Looks like a serious handset for serious users, too bad about the chosen network.

Do you know anyone that makes non-serious handsets for serious users, or vice versa?
post #66 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Meh, I think it looks fine. It's no iPhone, but it's attractive in its own way. You guys do know that the iPhone isn't the only attractive phone on the market


Maybe, but it is the MOST attractive phone on the market, and we don't like second-best.
post #67 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post

RIM has not the Epic Hero, Steve Jobs (RDF +10).


That is why they are selling so few phones these days!
post #68 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Scubadiver View Post

When I saw the big display at the store advising that the blackberry now comes with the MySpace App, preloaded, I thought, OMG, they are now putting crapware on the phone and calling it a feature?

I was made that my iPad did not have teh stocks app and the clock app. But I am sure glad it did not come with a MySpace App!

Apple's real genius is what they DON'T put on the iPad. Everybody already know how to use it!
post #69 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Again, fair enough. But that market is dwindling all the same, and Blackberry is losing market share all the same.

BB messenger is also under attack also because the main reason it's popular is it's secure. This is why the business people use it and why smart young girls use it to text each other. Today Blackberry announced for the first time that they are be open to "changing" the way the service runs so that places like United Arab Emirates can spy on the communications. So say goodbye to the main reason for using BB Messenger.

I think they should keep making the old-style keyboard phones for their main market of course. What I'm saying is that they should also be making a touch-screen model that echews the physical keyboard if they want to stay in the same position in the market. They are losing share, and losing hearts and minds.

No phone is secure when it come to government intervention - every carrier co-operates with governments to allow lawful interception of calls, texts, emails... the iPhone is no more secure than a Blackberry. I would argue BBM users would care less about their chats being screened than iPhone 4 users should be about the latest crack being able to be completed through Safari Mobile, that is scary potential for hackers.

Again, not bashing Apple, I have a lot of apple hardware, just adding perspective.
post #70 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbarriault View Post

I may be an iPhone lover, but being that I live in the Waterloo area (where RIM is headquartered) and some of my paycheque actually comes from RIM funding, this seems very wrong that one of RIM's biggest products in a long time is being introduced on a US Carrier.

Just go with it. You should be used to Canada not being at the center of the world

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post #71 of 155
Let's remember than RIM is still the world's second biggest smartphone manufacturer, both in terms of profits and units sold, before criticising them too much.

Source.
post #72 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by benice View Post

Fox News is considered the most trusted news source in America and you're trying to equate it somehow to a single issue website.

Wow- I'm a moderate Republican, but I refuse to watch Fox, due to obvious bias. Why would you possibly think Fox is the most trusted news site (among Republicans, perhaps, but how bout everyone else). Give me a break, and give me a trusted link to back up your remark.
post #73 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post

...I believe RiM's past attempts at a touchscreen only phone (the Storm and Storm 2) didn't sell very well. You have to cater to your audience and in the case of RiM that means including a physical keyboard.

I think Orlando is right. As a reformed Crackberry addict, I have no desire for a physical keyboard again. However, there are millions that say the same thing about my iPhone 4 virtual keybaord, so why not try to cater to your base? You can't rely on converts at this late stage, but your installed base could be a goldmine to mine. So don't be so cavalier about the Torch.

That said, it's still not going to expand market share, which is likely to keep shrinking especially here in North America. It won't be too much longer before iOS and Android hold most of all the chips at the table, with RIMM (and even Windows Phone 7 and Nokia) sitting on the outside looking in. More businesses are letting you "bring you own" to work, and as that happens, it is going to get harder and harder for these others to protect their market shares.
post #74 of 155
Not sure about this. Isn't the screen resolution a bit on the low side for a supposed flagship device? And a keyboard and touchscreen combined? I mean who is crying out for both?

I've nothing against Blackberry. Professional-looking devices. But it just feels a bit desperate. And is it gonna be that much cheaper than an iPhone?
post #75 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

I have noticed that a lot of smart phones since the iPhone have looked a lot like the iPhone, down to copying its original shiny metallic-looking bezel (see Samsung Mystic, which is otherwise a crappy WinMo6 phone). Pressure based touch screens quickly gave way to capacitive touch screens, pen input was out, finger input was in, and everyone has full screens now.

I can't say you're wrong about that. But this Torch model seems like an attempt to merge the best attributes of the iPhone touch screen experience with the strengths of the classic Blackberry. Of course it's going to look like this. And yes, Apple fans (like me) will probably not get it. But it might be the right product for Blackberry.

I think there's room in the market for more than just the iPhone form factor, but few handset manufacturers seem willing to color outside of the lines drawn by Apple!

How much different do you think a phone can be made? All plasma, LCD, and LED TVs look the same since Phillips introduced the first plasma for consumers. I don't see anyone crying about that. The iPhone 4 looks a lot like the LG Pravda that was out just before the iPhone 2G. Remember RIM still sells more phones than Apple does and I'm sure this one will sell quite well. Having a event to showcase a product us not unique to Apple, corporations have been doing it for years
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post #76 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagman View Post

Wow- I'm a moderate Republican, but I refuse to watch Fox, due to obvious bias. Why would you possibly think Fox is the most trusted news site (among Republicans, perhaps, but how bout everyone else). Give me a break, and give me a trusted link to back up your remark.

He thinks it is because Fox News tells him so
post #77 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by agolongo View Post

I dont mind it (The 9800) and OS6 looks to be vastly improved (Syncing over WIFI!). I know it doesnt have an Apple logo on the back so it wont get the majority of the Lemmings on this site to give it any consideration.

"Apple-Like" Buzz? How do you know this, are you attending the event? Or is it a standard launch event like any other product? If it was truly an Apple-like event the audience would consist of a bunch or irrational disciples crying with every word that flowed out of the speakers mouth, and looking desperately for genitals on the new tech monolith to make love to.

Let me see if i can encapsulate your comment a little more succinctly:

"Waaaa!"
post #78 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonicsands View Post

I am not sure security is the reason that young girls use BBM. They like it because of features not found in texting and emails - setting up groups (i.e. cliques), adding contacts by scanning a barcode, better storing of chat history, etc.

They use BBM for several reasons. Its included in the BB service, meaning it doesn't count as a SMS/MMS, the msgs aren't limited to 160 characters and its almost instantaneous.
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post #79 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

Let's remember than RIM is still the world's second biggest smartphone manufacturer, both in terms of profits and units sold, before criticising them too much.

Source.

Second in smartphone profits compared to whom -- i.e., who's first?
post #80 of 155
Looking at the photo of the new BB, I can't help but notice the huge AT&T logo on the home screen. I haven't seen that on a phone in a long time. Seeing this just make me appreciate the fact that Apple does not allow carriers to place their logo, except at the top bar, anywhere on the phone. Imagine turning on an iPad or iPhone and seeing the AT&T logo pop up. How annoying.

I think the new BlackBerry will keep a few of those that want to move away from the Blackberry world, but due to the lack applications compared to Android and Apple, many people will move on.
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