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What Sharon should do RIGHT NOW

post #1 of 57
Thread Starter 
Forget about the past. Sharon has an historic opportunity here:

Do not respond with force this time (for the pool hall attack). Instead, issue a statement via every medium, that essentially says "the people of Israel will exercise restraint in this case and not respond militarily"......"we will take the first step towards peace"

This would draw worldwide support. And, if attacked again, Israel will be EVEN MORE justified in killing or exiling Arafat....and using overwhelming military force.

What do you think?

[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</p>
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post #2 of 57
Yeah, sure...that's the real way...MY opinion?



Blow the mother****in' Hammas assholez off the map, including any arsehole with a pipebomb or fashionable C4 belt buckle.
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post #3 of 57
He should RESIGN and do both the Jewish, Palestinian, and rest of the Middle East a big huge FAVOR.By that I mean get out of politics altogether and for good. The world doesn't need him. Ever since that war-criminal was elected, the whole region has descended into chaos. He has no more pretence at decency or humanity, and no more moral justice to his actions and policies than Arafat, Hamas or bin Laden has to theirs: all these scumbags have huge amounts of blood on their hands. Palestinian blood = Israeli blood = American blood. Any group that suffers at the hands of warmongers and terrorists are no less special thsn any other group. Just because Sharon gets invited to the White House doesn't stop him from being a terrorist. Don't forget, Israel has an arsenal of 350+ nuclear weapons and any talk of "pushing Israel into the sea" is so much baloney. Israel could annihilate the entire Arab world at a stroke if it was pushed hard enough.

Of course it is so completely politically incorrect to castigate anything Israeli or Jewish on account of the horrendous events of the past, so flame on.

[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: Samantha Joanne Ollendale ]</p>
Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
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Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
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post #4 of 57
SJO, I have only one comment. It has not been ever since Sharon was elected that the region descended into chaos. Is it because the region was descending into chaos that Sharon was elected. And because of him the suicide bombings, although unstopped, have been severly limited in thier frequency. I am not going to argue with success. However, there needs to be a next step now. SDW2001 has a good possibility, but I do not believe it will work. I am not sure what the solution is, but Sharon resigning is not it. Israel needs stability in its leadership (read, no change for now), not turmoil and turnover.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #5 of 57
If Sharon were to turn into Gandhi tomorrow he would have a new fan.
proud resident of a failed state
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post #6 of 57
[quote]Originally posted by SDW2001:
<strong>Forget about the past. Sharon has an historic opportunity here:

Do not respond with force this time (for the pool hall attack). Instead, issue a statement via every medium, that essentially says "the people of Israel will exercise restraint in this case and not respond militarily"......"we will take the first step towards peace"

This would draw worldwide support. And, if attacked again, Israel will be EVEN MORE justified in killing or exiling Arafat....and using overwhelming military force.

What do you think?

[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

SDW2001's plan for more dead jews.
post #7 of 57
[quote]Originally posted by Artman @_@:
<strong>Yeah, sure...that's the real way...MY opinion?



Blow the mother****in' Hammas assholez off the map, including any arsehole with a pipebomb or fashionable C4 belt buckle.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Instead, I think Sharon and Arifat should fight in celebrity boxing and whoever wins claims all the land.
....smell it first!
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....smell it first!
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post #8 of 57
Didn't they do this during early April. They didn't retaliate for a couple of bombings during the negotiations with Zinni. It'll be a lot of pain, but not responding for a few months or a year and offering viable solutions would make a better case for him, istead of holding back retaliation for a couple of bombings.

Also, my addendum to the policy would be a change in dress code for all people who are on Israeli land. He should mandate that all people who are on Israeli land must wear skin tight clothing. Bikinis, speedos, thongs, spandex, and such. Hell, naked even. Also if possible, he should mandate that they must look like Natilie Portman as well, even the men.
post #9 of 57
Hey SDW2001. How about you tell us what Arafat should do. He's the one doing the bombings.
post #10 of 57
The connection between Arafat and his bombers is a lot murkier than the connection between Sharon and his bombers.
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post #11 of 57
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by scott_h_phd:
<strong>Hey SDW2001. How about you tell us what Arafat should do. He's the one doing the bombings.</strong><hr></blockquote>


I don't know. The whole thing is a ****ing mess. I know we have to agree on that.

What is your solution?

[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</p>
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #12 of 57
[quote]Originally posted by SDW2001:
<strong>

You are such an ass. i agree Arafat is useless, but Sharon is partly to blame. His eye for an eye approach isn't working.</strong><hr></blockquote>
But doesn't the Old Testament call for an "eye for an eye"? So in essence, he is doing what his religion tells him and his people to do. Therefore it will never stop until the Palestinians cease the bombings. I know this is wrong but its true. Unless the religous doctorines of the Palestinians calls for the same "eye for an eye" type response to your enemy (ignorant on the subject). Then they will not stop either. It doesn't matter who started it and at what point, but it does matter that if this is the beliefs of both people/s then it is a never ending cycle of killing and it will never end. Am I wrong? Not trying to stir anything up but this is how I see it.
....smell it first!
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....smell it first!
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post #13 of 57
[quote]Originally posted by SDW2001:
<strong>

You are such an ass. i agree Arafat is useless, but Sharon is partly to blame. His eye for an eye approach isn't working.</strong><hr></blockquote>
But doesn't the Old Testament call for an "eye for an eye"? So in essence, he is doing what his religion tells him and his people to do. Therefore it will never stop until the Palestinians cease the bombings. I know this is wrong but its true. Unless the religous doctorines of the Palestinians calls for the same "eye for an eye" type response to your enemy (ignorant on the subject). Then they will not stop either. It doesn't matter who started it and at what point, but it does matter that if this is the beliefs of both people/s then it is a never ending cycle of killing and it will never end. Am I wrong? Not trying to stir anything up but this is how I see it.
....smell it first!
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....smell it first!
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post #14 of 57
This goes byond religious beliefs and an eye for an eye. This is ingrained hatred and mistrust that has built over centuries.

But, both sides likely follow the eye for an eye motto.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #15 of 57
[quote]Originally posted by SDW2001:
<strong>


I don't know. The whole thing is a ****ing mess. I know we have to agree on that.

What is your solution?

[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Mine? The arab/mulsim world enters the 21st century and acts like civilized people for the first time in 500 years. Simple.
post #16 of 57
[quote]Originally posted by SDW2001:
<strong>


I don't know. The whole thing is a ****ing mess. I know we have to agree on that.

What is your solution?
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Also...

You seem to know so well what Israel should do but have not one thing to say to Arafat. Blame the Jews only huh?
post #17 of 57
instead of sitting on their laurels? (dubious claims of inventing modern mathematics)... err, but I digress...
post #18 of 57
Thread Starter 
1) No, it isn't Israel's fault. But, Sharon's actions have contributed.

2) Your posts never contain any actual solutions. The bit about the arab world needing to join the rest of the world for the first time in 500 years may be accurate, but how do we accomplish that?

I'm serious, what is YOUR idea?

[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</p>
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #19 of 57
What people fail to realize is that this is the epicenter of a clash of civilizations.

Civilization A promotes tolerance, personal freedoms, and democracy.

Civilization B promotes religious intolerance, inhumane repression of women, and breeds theocratic dictatorships.

Don't tell me that this isn't a clash of civilizations. If civ B wants to ever be respected, they need to leave the dated barbarism behind and join the rest of the world in the 21st century.
post #20 of 57
[quote]Originally posted by Samantha Joanne Ollendale:
<strong>He should RESIGN and do both the Jewish, Palestinian, and rest of the Middle East a big huge FAVOR.By that I mean get out of politics altogether and for good. The world doesn't need him. Ever since that war-criminal was elected, the whole region has descended into chaos. He has no more pretence at decency or humanity, and no more moral justice to his actions and policies than Arafat, Hamas or bin Laden has to theirs: all these scumbags have huge amounts of blood on their hands. Palestinian blood = Israeli blood = American blood. Any group that suffers at the hands of warmongers and terrorists are no less special thsn any other group. Just because Sharon gets invited to the White House doesn't stop him from being a terrorist. Don't forget, Israel has an arsenal of 350+ nuclear weapons and any talk of "pushing Israel into the sea" is so much baloney. Israel could annihilate the entire Arab world at a stroke if it was pushed hard enough.

Of course it is so completely politically incorrect to castigate anything Israeli or Jewish on account of the horrendous events of the past, so flame on.

[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: Samantha Joanne Ollendale ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

He was elected BECAUSE of the renewed violence. it didn't start after he was elected and in fact got worse when he didn't retaliate immediately after the first homicide bomber struck. You're right-whats past is past-get over it.

When the mood for peace increases, when israelis believe again that giving up territory is in their best interests, then a Labor Party politician will be elected. Thats how it works in a Democracy. palestinians have no such choice because to go against Arafat, the real killer with blood on his hands, they would be shot. Such is life as an Arab.............................................. .....
post #21 of 57
[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>If Sharon were to turn into Gandhi tomorrow he would have a new fan.</strong><hr></blockquote>

And a Lot of dead Israelis. Arabs do not respect weakness, only power...............................
post #22 of 57
I thought you were talking about Sharon Osborne.
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post #23 of 57
Good point TigerWoods. I think we should give all these Muslims MTV and American culture 24 hours a day. Lull them into a stupor. Why bother with a suicide bombing when you could be watching TRL.

[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: spindler ]</p>
post #24 of 57
[quote]Originally posted by steve666:
<strong>

He was elected BECAUSE of the renewed violence. it didn't start after he was elected and in fact got worse when he didn't retaliate immediately after the first homicide bomber struck. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Is there an echo in here?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #25 of 57
[quote]Originally posted by NoahJ:
<strong>This goes byond religious beliefs and an eye for an eye. This is ingrained hatred and mistrust that has built over centuries.

But, both sides likely follow the eye for an eye motto.</strong><hr></blockquote>

although islam allows an eye for an eye, no one even bothers to read the second line, which says "BUT FORGIVENESS IS BETTER."
"What does it profit a man to gain the whole world
and suffer the loss of his soul?"
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"What does it profit a man to gain the whole world
and suffer the loss of his soul?"
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post #26 of 57
Retracted out of respect to my brothers.

[ 05-10-2002: Message edited by: mac's girl ]</p>
"What does it profit a man to gain the whole world
and suffer the loss of his soul?"
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"What does it profit a man to gain the whole world
and suffer the loss of his soul?"
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post #27 of 57
[quote]Originally posted by mac's girl:
<strong>Sharon is a very dangerous man to all of humanity. he is in violation of human rights violations that would make Augusto Pinochet look like a saint. just because he happens to head a country that is an ally of the US, ddoes that mean we can excuse and overlook his crimes? im not saying that Arafat is a good candidate for making peace either, but peace will neever come about as long as sharon remains in power.

consider the following quote by ariel sharon:

"I don't know something called International Principles. I vow that I'll burn every Palestinian child (that) will be born in this area. The Palestinian woman and child is more dangerous than the man, because the Palestinian childs existence infers that generations will go on, but the man causes limited danger. I vow that if I was just an Israeli civilian and I met a Palestinian I would burn him and I would make him suffer before killing him. With one hit I've killed 750 Palestinians (in Rafah in 1956). I wanted to encourage my soldiers by raping Arabic girls as the Palestinian women is a slave for Jews, and we do whatever we want to her and nobody tells us what we shall do but we tell others what they shall do."

-Ariel Sharon, current Prime Minister, In an interview with General Ouze Merham, 1956</strong><hr></blockquote>

That is shocking. Post the link to where you got it. So far, much of these claims to horrible things Sharon has done have been exaggerated, or fabricated...
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #28 of 57
[quote]Originally posted by NoahJ:
<strong>

That is shocking. Post the link to where you got it. So far, much of these claims to horrible things Sharon has done have been exaggerated, or fabricated...</strong><hr></blockquote>

go to google.com, enter in "Ouze Merham" as the search word. it is documented and referenced in so many places. i thought this was an exaggeration too, but as i researched this i learned there are so many more atrocious things that sharon has done that i never knew about. if the man is rotten, then he's rotten. disliking sharon does not make one an anti-semite. i have nothing against my israeli brothers and sisters. however, many of them do not support sharon, and they should not have to be represented by such a man. it's a shame that the question of peace must rest in the hands of two idiot political heads instead of the good people on both sides who are suffering every day.
"What does it profit a man to gain the whole world
and suffer the loss of his soul?"
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"What does it profit a man to gain the whole world
and suffer the loss of his soul?"
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post #29 of 57
[quote]Originally posted by mac's girl:
<strong>

go to google.com, enter in "Ouze Merham" as the search word. it is documented and referenced in so many places. i thought this was an exaggeration too, but as i researched this i learned there are so many more atrocious things that sharon has done that i never knew about. if the man is rotten, then he's rotten. disliking sharon does not make one an anti-semite. i have nothing against my israeli brothers and sisters. however, many of them do not support sharon, and they should not have to be represented by such a man. it's a shame that the question of peace must rest in the hands of two idiot political heads instead of the good people on both sides who are suffering every day.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Funny, every one of the sites I find it on are all pro-palestinian or written by arabs. Some of them even distorted many facts that are well known to make their points. Not one good source in the bunch. Any real news source that has the actual interview?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #30 of 57
Lots of racists here.
post #31 of 57
[quote]Originally posted by SDW2001:
<strong>Forget about the past. Sharon has an historic opportunity here:

Do not respond with force this time (for the pool hall attack). Instead, issue a statement via every medium, that essentially says "the people of Israel will exercise restraint in this case and not respond militarily"......"we will take the first step towards peace"

This would draw worldwide support. And, if attacked again, Israel will be EVEN MORE justified in killing or exiling Arafat....and using overwhelming military force.

What do you think?

[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Agree with this in every manner ! perfect !
and I think that this is exactly what Sharon will do .. at least I hope he will
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
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Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
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post #32 of 57
[quote]Originally posted by Exercise in Frivolity:
<strong>What people fail to realize is that this is the epicenter of a clash of civilizations.

Civilization A promotes tolerance, personal freedoms, and democracy.

Civilization B promotes religious intolerance, inhumane repression of women, and breeds theocratic dictatorships.

Don't tell me that this isn't a clash of civilizations. If civ B wants to ever be respected, they need to leave the dated barbarism behind and join the rest of the world in the 21st century.</strong><hr></blockquote>

So... which one is A, and which one is B again?

I constantly find it amusing when people talk about 'those religious fanatic Ay-rabs' when Israel was founded as an explicitly Jewish state...

To-ma-to, to-mah-to.

Personally, I say have 'em play hockey. Few of either side have seen ice outside of a drinking glass before, so it'd be even, and each of them would be armed with clubs and sharp blades. And, they get to fight over the single projectile weapon. Winner take all.

(Yes, I'm completely and utterly disgusted and fed up with the entire situation, and still can't quite figure out why we've stuck with Israel all these years... they're like the embarrassing friend in high school who keeps getting you in trouble by proxy. When Iraq invaded Kuwait, defied UN orders to withdraw, and started depopulating the place, they were evil. When Israel invades the West Bank, defies UN orders to withdraw (twice), and starts depopulating the place... for *35 years*, it's okay. I honestly don't get it. I really don't. Both sides suck, IMHO.)
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post #33 of 57
[quote]Originally posted by tristan:
<strong>
But doesn't the Old Testament call for an "eye for an eye"? So in essence, he is doing what his religion tells him and his people to do. Therefore it will never stop until the Palestinians cease the bombings. I know this is wrong but its true. Unless the religous doctorines of the Palestinians calls for the same "eye for an eye" type response to your enemy (ignorant on the subject). Then they will not stop either. It doesn't matter who started it and at what point, but it does matter that if this is the beliefs of both people/s then it is a never ending cycle of killing and it will never end. Am I wrong? Not trying to stir anything up but this is how I see it.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Dude, you are very wrong .. Neither Sharon or Arafat are remotely religious man .. this is a political fight over land and rights of both nations. Arafat uses his suicide murderers to weaken Israel and to pressure it into concession it wasn't willing to make at the negotiating table, Sharon is using the IDF to defend Israeli lives and pressure Palestinians into giving up their (in his mind) excessive demands and aggressive use of indiscriminate violence... Calling this and eye for and eye it absolutely wrong ... most of the IDF's action are directly to do with stopping terrorists from killing Israelis.
It has been proven to work in the west bank since the latest operation it virtually stopped the suicides and shootings that were coming to Israel from the west bank ( the latest one came from Gaza)... hope this clears things up a little
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
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Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
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post #34 of 57
[quote]Originally posted by Samantha Joanne Ollendale:
<strong>He should RESIGN and do both the Jewish, Palestinian, and rest of the Middle East a big huge FAVOR.</strong><hr></blockquote>





<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> That's just great ... Sharon should resign coz Arafat chooses to kill Israelis .. that rich !
Should Bush resign because of 911 ?

How about : Arafat resigns .. Real elections take place where Palestinians choose a leader and that leader stops the incestuous of violence and goes back to real negotiation ... sounds a bit more hopeful I think

[ 05-10-2002: Message edited by: rashumon ]</p>
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
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Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
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post #35 of 57
[quote]Originally posted by mac's girl:
<strong>Sharon is a very dangerous man to all of humanity. he is in violation of human rights violations that would make Augusto Pinochet look like a saint. just because he happens to head a country that is an ally of the US, ddoes that mean we can excuse and overlook his crimes? im not saying that Arafat is a good candidate for making peace either, but peace will neever come about as long as sharon remains in power.

consider the following quote by ariel sharon:

"I don't know something called International Principles. I vow that I'll burn every Palestinian child (that) will be born in this area. The Palestinian woman and child is more dangerous than the man, because the Palestinian childs existence infers that generations will go on, but the man causes limited danger. I vow that if I was just an Israeli civilian and I met a Palestinian I would burn him and I would make him suffer before killing him. With one hit I've killed 750 Palestinians (in Rafah in 1956). I wanted to encourage my soldiers by raping Arabic girls as the Palestinian women is a slave for Jews, and we do whatever we want to her and nobody tells us what we shall do but we tell others what they shall do."

-Ariel Sharon, current Prime Minister, In an interview with General Ouze Merham, 1956</strong><hr></blockquote>

Where the hell did u get this ? this sounds like a cheap piece of Arab propaganda ... RUBISH !!!
Shame on you for even quoting these lies !
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
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Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
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post #36 of 57
Macs_girl, I just read through this again and I must say I'm shocked by your acceptance of this fabrication .. the language the writer .. its all so stinky ! this has 'Arab Fabrication' written all over it !

If you have any minimal sense of self dignity I suggest you either back this crap up or retract this piece of shit A.S.A.P <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
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Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
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post #37 of 57
I have to give rashumon right here. Despite my dislike of Sharon it isn´t his rhetoric.

Please give a link to your source.
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post #38 of 57
[quote]Originally posted by Anders:
<strong>I have to give rashumon right here. Despite my dislike of Sharon it isn´t his rhetoric.

Please give a link to your source.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Agree with Anders, i never eard of that. If this quote was true, why i never eard of this story in the europeans media who are supposed to be propalestinians (but they are not propaganda : by propaganda i mean falsification of the truth).
post #39 of 57
I'm not a fan of Sharon either, but I think that a quote that strong needs to be referenced with an authoratative source.

I searched online but only found sites that either lacked a reference, or that eventually looped back to a publication called the Palestinian Chronicle.

I did not find any reputable media outlet that used this quote.

Nor could I find any reference to a General Ouze Merham outside of the context of the quote.

Frankly, I don't believe the quote. If anyone has evidence that this quote is true, please provide it.
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post #40 of 57
Gald I am not the only who thinks this quote is bogus. Even if I was the first to call her on it...
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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