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iPhone head Mark Papermaster leaves Apple - Page 4

post #121 of 202
A solid argument is built around facts. In this thread, there are none...
post #122 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

The solution is actually quite simple - don't touch an area that is 1/16th of an inch in the lower left corner of the phone. 1/16th!!!!! How hard is that?... + testing facility. Now grow up, and go troll somewhere else.

Doesn't matter how small the area is that causes connection drop; you hold it with your hand or fingers and they easily over that tiny area.

Also your post about the 100 million dollar cosig facility shows that Apples PR story was successful in convincing you. Well done Apple! I think the opposite: with an expensive facility like that they should not have come up with the current (flawed) antenna design.
post #123 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

LOL I am in the "third world" and early indications from those importing the iPhone 4 is that the death grip cannot be replicated here, at least in major cities and towns.

I think Bobo may have been referring to the good ole USA as a third world country in terms of it's mobile support infrastructure.
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post #124 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

A solid argument is built around facts. In this thread, there are none...

True that. Here is an interesting take:
"In retrospect, today's news explains what should have been seen as a curious aspect of Apple's iPhone 4 press conference last month. The Q&A portion of the press conference was conducted by Apple CEO Steve Jobs, Chief Operating Officer Tim Cook, and Mansfield. Papermaster, whose division designed the iPhone 4, was to our knowledge not in attendance at the event.

In fact, even Apple's promotional video for the iPhone 4 released at the device's introduction in early June and featuring a number of Apple executives talking about it does not include Papermaster. Mansfield is, however, featured with the job title of Senior Vice President of Hardware, dropping the "Mac" qualifier that had been part of his official job at that time. According to The New York Times, Mansfield was involved in the design of several aspects of the iPhone 4, including its A4 chip and Retina display.

Papermaster's curious invisibility in all aspects of iPhone 4 publicity suggests that he may even have been on his way out even before the iPhone 4 was released, but whether his departure is due to iPhone antenna design issues that might have been discovered prior to its launch or to other factors is unknown."




There's still many who'll associate his departure to only antenna issue and take every opportunity to revive the dead horse though.
post #125 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauldfullerton View Post

Wake up America! It is primarily an AT&T problem, not an Apple problem. You have crappy telecommunications infrastructure because you spend far too much money fighting wars in other countries and propping up Wall Street wankers (sorry, bankers).

Shortlisted for idiot post of the year.
post #126 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by oxygenhose View Post

Or maybe not enough wars... what natural resources are in your land?

PS. Inferior telecommunications infrastructure? Never mind the absurdity of this notion, but where do you think your country got the technology? I can't remember which country Alexander Graham Bell & Thomas Edison are from, but only a fool would try to argue that it hasn't been the dominant one in 'magic electronic waves' since the mid 1800's.

Alexander Graham Bell was Born in Scotland. Furthermore the technology used by almost every country in the world for mobile phones was created by a European group lead by Torleiv Maseng, a Norwegian born engineer.

So before you go all patriotic on us Europeans, check your facts.
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post #127 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by oxygenhose View Post

PS. Inferior telecommunications infrastructure? Never mind the absurdity of this notion, but where do you think your country got the technology? I can't remember which country Alexander Graham Bell & Thomas Edison are from, but only a fool would try to argue that it hasn't been the dominant one in 'magic electronic waves' since the mid 1800's.

But if there has been a lack of development since, where does that place it now?

I guess since he was talking about iPhones, he was referring to mobile telecoms infrastructure. Most of which is actually invented (according to patent pools) outside the U.S. and are factually more developed (coverage, signal quality, available services etc.) outside the U.S.

To get a better formulated (if long) non-U.S. view on mobile telecoms, read: http://communities-dominate.blogs.co...th-police.html

And if you want to talk about radio waves, there was this Marconi guy who had a big impact. Now where was he from?

You talked about diagonals and being wary of taking simple statements when talking about wars. Doesn't the same apply to mobile telecoms?

Regs, Jarkko
post #128 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post

HP has already struck out twice (Fiorina and Hurd).

I just read that Hurd doubled HP's stock since 2005. That's not exactly a bad CEO (Michael Dell perhaps?).

And apparently there is no real sex scandal. All he did was fudge the expense reports and the directors decided they didn't like it.

I'm not so sure that Hurd won't have a CEO position within a few months, possibly even faster than Papermaster.
post #129 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Is it just me or was it a dumb idea to hire a guy from IBM for anything much less to run your most profitable division? Didn't IBM fail miserably at making PCs? They did make a really decent laptop loved by geeks and they turn around and sell it to Lenovo.

Why would you work for Apple? A company who in the 90's had the Preforma. The Edsel of the computer industry.

A person should not be judged by his company. If that was the case then Steve Jobs would be a elitist person who hides from the media.
post #130 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarges View Post

I'd have thought that the culprit was Jon Ive as VP for Industrial Design, has Papermaster made a scapegoat instead?

Most people around the world are reporting that iPhone 4 is even better than the 3GS at getting a signal, maintaining it, and having less dropped calls. This is less the case in the US.

So, if anything, Jonny Ive, if a culprit, was the culprit that designed a great phone, yet again.
post #131 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielchow View Post

also ask any iphone 4 users living in the countries where iphone 4 was recently released. the consensus is that the antenna problem is with the carrier and not with the phone's antenna design. iphone 4 users in the other countries are not experiencing the antenna problems that users in the United States are experiencing. also, the infamous grip is not a natural way to hold any objectit's just to purposely trigger an undesired respond from a device.

anyway, i think Mr. Papermaster will end up with hp

Unbelievable totally wrong: As a righthanded person I nevertheless ususally hold my phone in my left hand, and the critical antenna area comes just into contact with the palm of my hand. To be honest and direct: It should not have been constructed that way!
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post #132 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

Apple as a company let this product out the door. did they do no testing? they are all to blame for this fiasco. Jobs stamps everything doesn't he? oh right, he claims the successes, somebody else gets the failures....

Your assumption is based on an assumption.
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post #133 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregoriusM View Post

Most people around the world are reporting that iPhone 4 is even better than the 3GS at getting a signal, maintaining it, and having less dropped calls. This is less the case in the US.

So, if anything, Jonny Ive, if a culprit, was the culprit that designed a great phone, yet again.

in reality 'most people around the world' are having the same issues as you guys in America, over this side of the pond my iPhone 4's signal decreases immediately as I hold it in my hand. It loses connectivity in areas of poor coverage, something it never happened with my previous iPhone 3G or any other phones I owned before. I'm assuming that you do own an iPhone 4 and have travelled around the world, speaking of experience as it were, and not just rehearsing something you've read online.

so the question remains, who was ultimately responsible for the design? Ive or Papermaster?
post #134 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

LOL. First of all, when is responding to a post considered "off topic"? You posted it, so it's fair game. Don't arbitrarily apply the "off topic card" to criticism of your post.

Here's what your "argument" boils down to: If A then B. B is true. Therefore A must be true. In this case, A = "there is a flaw" and B = "Apple would take these 5 actions". That's a logical fallacy. And it proves nothing.

Congratulations. I've given your unsound arguments more of my time & attention than it rightfully deserves. You should be honored that I took the time, just for you

an incorrect reading of what he is saying. we get that you took a freshman class in logic. you just never learned how to correctly apply what you learned. its a good baby-step attempt. stick with the schooling and you might figure it out in the long run.
post #135 of 202
Apple fanboi delusions of grandeur.
post #136 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Fella View Post

Alexander Graham Bell was Born in Scotland. Furthermore the technology used by almost every country in the world for mobile phones was created by a European group lead by Torleiv Maseng, a Norwegian born engineer.

So before you go all patriotic on us Europeans, check your facts.

Facts, Schmacts.
As Stephen Colbert would say: "it FEELS like Alexander Graham Bell should have been born in America, so I'll believe he was. Otherwise he wouldn't be on the $10 bill!"



UPDATE: Just submitted to wikipedia:
Alexander Graham Bell- Born: July 4, 1776 in Dallas Texas.
American inventor of cell phone (and current CEO of AT&T)
post #137 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarges View Post

I'd have thought that the culprit was Jon Ive as VP for Industrial Design, has Papermaster made a scapegoat instead?

I would tend to agree. If this was because of the problems with antenna, then Papermaster on the engineering side could only would within the constraints imposed on them by the industrial design side. There is no doubt that the ID of the antenna was birthed and championed by Ives. I suppose it is still Papermaster's failing if he was failed to implement the design functionally, but there is no escaping that if he was handcuffed to the design, his options were limited.

Ives would never be scapegoated for anything short of bringing down the company. He is Jobs' man more than anyone else in the company. More even that the guys Jobs brought from Next, Ives shares an almost identical design aesthetic and nature that demands perfection.

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post #138 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

LOL. First of all, when is responding to a post considered "off topic"? You posted it, so it's fair game. Don't arbitrarily apply the "off topic card" to criticism of your post.

Someone else used the off-topic card on me earlier, so I did not want to take chances.

Quote:
Here's what your "argument" boils down to: If A then B. B is true. Therefore A must be true. In this case, A = "there is a flaw" and B = "Apple would take these 5 actions". That's a logical fallacy. And it proves nothing.

I see you're making progress. Only I never said "A must be true". Now go to the wiki page about Occam's razor and you're almost done.

Quote:
Congratulations. I've given your unsound arguments more of my time & attention than it rightfully deserves. You should be honored that I took the time, just for you

Thank you for your time. I appreciate the effort. Let's hope that what you learned pays off, years from now.

Cheers.
post #139 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Ah, the Internets, where facts and speculation blend into a syrupy mix called truthiness
If Papermaster did such a crappy job, why does my iPhone 4 work flawlessly?

Ditto to what you wrote.

For crying out loud, what iPhone 4 fiasco are they talking about. I haven't have a single problem with my iPhone 4.

Did the writer say the man was fired? He left Apple. Who cares?
post #140 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by drow View Post

hey there, mr. papermaster.
how's that sword?
comfy enough for you?

The antenna is mightier than the sword, sharper than the pen... Wait wha?
post #141 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

Hey clueless "screamingfist" - before you make a post that really really makes you look so stupid you should check the facts. First, only a handful of people complained. In fact, the OVERWHELMING majority of iPhone4 users say that they get much better reception and fewer dropped calls. The solution is actually quite simple - don't touch an area that is 1/16th of an inch in the lower left corner of the phone. 1/16th!!!!! How hard is that? This is something that was totally blown out of proportion by the media frenzy. As for Apple doing testing, I suggest you check out Apple's website where they show off their $100 million + testing facility. Now grow up, and go troll somewhere else.

Even if you're somewhat correct, do you think his leaving is just a coincidence? The fact is that it is hard not to touch that area of the phone if you hold it in your left hand, as most right-handed people would do in order to type with their right hand.

I agree that the media blew this out of proportion. But just because they did doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist and the fact remains that enabling the user to easily short out the two antennas is extraordinary poor design. Think how much better it would have been if the split between the two antennas was at the top of the phone instead of the lower left.

I'm in the camp that believes that Apple, due to their paranoia about secrecy, did not properly test this phone. $100 million testing facility or not, a phone like this needs to be tested in real-world conditions and without a case. My bet is that it wasn't to any great extent. I've been involved in other Apple projects and we had to keep equipment in a locked room and the equipment had to be kept in a case that "disguised" it and it had to be secured to the desk. And we weren't allowed to even acknowledge that we had such equipment, even after the hardware was released for consumer sale.

The question in this case is assuming he's being "punished" for the fiasco, whether real or imagined, is whether he deserves to be or whether he's taking the fall for everyone else, including Jobs.
post #142 of 202
Love it!
post #143 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trajectory View Post

Um, no. They sold millions of them and became the dominant maker of personal computers for quite a few years.

That's only because they were the only game in town. Can u find a IBM PC now? We don't even call them IBM compatible anymore. A company should improve over the yes not fail. So in my eyes IBM=Epic Fail
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post #144 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

Papermaster made a mistake. Now it's time to erase that mistake. (substitute Bob Morton for Papermaster to get the movie reference)

Love it!
post #145 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by davestall View Post

That post is proof that Jobs distortion field is stronger than common sense for those foolish enough to believe every word he says. Barnum would be proud.

Apple would never hold an emergency press conference to squelch the media; unless what the media was reporting was impossible to dispute. They would not spend millions distributing a rubber band fix if one was not required.

You're completely wrong on that.

You clearly don't know anything about sociology, psychology or what's sometimes called the "madness of crowds." A press conference is usually called to correct a mistaken impression that has gotten into the press or that the press itself is spreading around on purpose. It's specifically to correct *impressions* and *opinions*. That's the whole point of the thing.

Same thing for "screamingfist" (teckstud?) comments above. The fact that they called a press conference does not necessarily indicate there is or was a real physical problem with the design of the antenna. They *might* equate to the same thing, but the press conference is/was needed to address the perception of the problem regardless of whether there actually was a problem.

The press conference is *not* "evidence" that there was a problem with the antenna design because they would have had to have it whether the design was the best ever, or the worst ever. The conference was mainly to address the "perception in the press" as most press conferences do.
post #146 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Fella View Post

Alexander Graham Bell was Born in Scotland. Furthermore the technology used by almost every country in the world for mobile phones was created by a European group lead by Torleiv Maseng, a Norwegian born engineer.

So before you go all patriotic on us Europeans, check your facts.

For the record, Canada claims Bell for their own as well and have a much stronger claim than the USA.

Bell was born in Scotland but lived in Canada during the years when he made most of his major inventions. Once he got famous, and needed places to develop them further, he moved to the States which was a fairly obvious, practical thing to do at the time.

So yeah, despite claiming Bell as one of their own, the USA has the weakest claim on him.
post #147 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The problem they fixed by holding a press conference which detailed the advantages of the iPhone 4s antenna, their testing facility and on staff experts, giving away cases, reiterating that you had 30 days to return the device, and showing that death grip attenuation was common to cellphones was to fix the media frenzy and public image issues, not to fix the iPhone 4 itself.

The bumper FIXED my flawed phone.
post #148 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarges View Post

I'd have thought that the culprit was Jon Ive as VP for Industrial Design, has Papermaster made a scapegoat instead?

Jony's designs are always brilliant and beautiful and combine form and function. How could he be any kind of a culprit?
post #149 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

Android is garbage compared to these two OS's but the average person doesn't know any better.



That's the real problem. Apple's new target customer for its mobile device business is the average person - the people who they show in their ads. And the average person doesn't know any better, so they might get an Android.

But if they do, and then see how much better the iPhone is, they probably will throw their DROID in a drawer, and buy an iPhone. So I don't think that Apple has anything to worry about, once the average person sees that Android is just plain confusing and ugly.

And besides, those other phones just fall apart once the warranty is over. So in 90 days, people need a new phone anyways, and their Android is all out of date too soon.
post #150 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Fella View Post

Alexander Graham Bell was Born in Scotland. Furthermore the technology used by almost every country in the world for mobile phones was created by a European group lead by Torleiv Maseng, a Norwegian born engineer.

So before you go all patriotic on us Europeans, check your facts.


What is it about Thomas Edison that you don't understand? He is an American, just like Steve Jobs.
post #151 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

They say great minds think alike, but in actuality the truly great minds think like no one else.

Seriously though, doesn't this news seem a little coincidental to the timing of HP's "reorganization"?

Yes, it seems like a quite interesting coincidence at the very least. Also I'd get the impression that moving from the IBM to the HP culture is much more familiar than going from IBM to Apple.

As part of that reorganisation, HP will be looking for some pretty different hardware/software combinations in the next few years and is probably open to more new ideas whereas Apple is happy with their success so far and will probably make less hardware changes than what HP is going to try.
post #152 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Can u find a IBM PC now?


Har! So true!!!


All they make is servers and mainframes and supercomputers and stuff like that. They completely failed in the regular computer market where Apple is making huge amounts of money with the Mac Pro and iMac and MBP. Poor IBM. So Sorry...
post #153 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

So yeah, despite claiming Bell as one of their own, the USA has the weakest claim on him.


You can try to spin things all you want, but the facts are that the telephone is an American invention. Just like the light bulb and the airplane and everything else.
post #154 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

You're completely wrong on that.

You clearly don't know anything about sociology, psychology or what's sometimes called the "madness of crowds." A press conference is usually called to correct a mistaken impression that has gotten into the press or that the press itself is spreading around on purpose. It's specifically to correct *impressions* and *opinions*. That's the whole point of the thing.

Same thing for "screamingfist" (teckstud?) comments above. The fact that they called a press conference does not necessarily indicate there is or was a real physical problem with the design of the antenna. They *might* equate to the same thing, but the press conference is/was needed to address the perception of the problem regardless of whether there actually was a problem.

The press conference is *not* "evidence" that there was a problem with the antenna design because they would have had to have it whether the design was the best ever, or the worst ever. The conference was mainly to address the "perception in the press" as most press conferences do.

yes i understand it isnt 'proof'. and it is quite possible that someone suggested to Papermaster something that might have avoided all the trouble and he chose to dismiss it before the product came out. that would be a very good reason to have him leave.
while not conclusive the actions apple has taken along with the nature/tone of the press conference indicates that the antenna is not the best designed and i wouldn't be surprised to find newer models with steps taken to do away with the need for bumpers or cases (not that anyones iphone really needs bumpers or cases they just need them for psychological reasons)
however, my original gripe is with the doing away with papermaster and putting the blame on him. i may be really off the mark with that as it may come to light that it was really warranted, but, if it does truly come out that he was thrown under the bus to save Jobs/apple image.....
post #155 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habañero View Post

Facts, Schmacts.
As Stephen Colbert would say: "it FEELS like Alexander Graham Bell should have been born in America, so I'll believe he was. Otherwise he wouldn't be on the $10 bill!


UPDATE: Just submitted to wikipedia:
Alexander Graham Bell- Born: July 4, 1776 in Dallas Texas.
American inventor of cell phone (and current CEO of AT&T)

LOL to both parts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by apple4life View Post

The bumper FIXED my flawed phone.

A Bumper fixed the media frenzy. Thats it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

That is WAY too confusing for the average iPhone user, who is a total non-technical regular person. They don't know GPRS from a hole in the ground. That is why they bought an iPhone in the first place.

And a tiny little dot for GPRS and bars that mean nothing makes more sense? Sure¡

Quote:
All that typical iPhone users need is some kind of indication that the reason that they cannot make a phone call is due to no signal. Maybe if the signal is too low, the dialer could be set to refuse to work? That would be clear enough, and would not need any cryptic acronyms that regular people find impossible to memorize.

Yeah, thats why the very first thing I wrote is No Service. If there is no service there is no service. If you arent on 3G the 3G label drops down to EDGE represented by an E and if that drops down its represented by an odd dot that very few people today know what it means. Hence my comment to write slow and fast 2G, etc. to make it simple.

The bottom line is if I cant put two phones with different OSes next to each other and and know which one is getting a stronger signal by looking at the bars then its a pointless metric. Nothing has changed in that regard, all Apple has done is saved itself from allowing their phones to drop from full bars to 1 bar with a death grip by moving the goal posts.
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post #156 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Once he got famous, and needed places to develop them further, he moved to the States which was a fairly obvious, practical thing to do at the time.

I dont know, that sounds like a pretty strong argument to me. He came to the US because other countries couldnt accommodate his needs and wants. When you are traveling and some asks you where you are from do you tell them you are from the city you live now or the city your born in? (see what I did there? )
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post #157 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

however, my original gripe is with the doing away with papermaster and putting the blame on him. i may be really off the mark with that as it may come to light that it was really warranted, but, if it does truly come out that he was thrown under the bus to save Jobs/apple image.....

You didnt qualify your comment to note that Apple hasnt stated why Papermaster has left and that if they put the blame on him that you would take issue.
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post #158 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

What is it about Thomas Edison that you don't understand? He is an American, just like Steve Jobs.

Yes, hired on by a Canadian-raised Scot. As an ASSISTANT.
post #159 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

You can try to spin things all you want, but the facts are that the telephone is an American invention. Just like the light bulb and the airplane and everything else.

"... and everything else."
It's comments like these that shake the foundations of my belief that not ALL americans are arrogant pr!cks.

The patent for the invention is held by the US patent office, so I suppose technically it can be claimed as an American invention. But really, everyone else knows better.
post #160 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Fella View Post

Alexander Graham Bell was Born in Scotland. Furthermore the technology used by almost every country in the world for mobile phones was created by a European group lead by Torleiv Maseng, a Norwegian born engineer.

So before you go all patriotic on us Europeans, check your facts.

If anyone should check facts, it is you. Here, let me help you get started: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_mobile_phones
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