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Another rumor pegs Verizon iPhone 4 for January 2011 release - Page 2

post #41 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh View Post

Christmas production runs generally end in October or early November. December is an ideal time to switch product mix and ramp up for a January launch. You have excess production capacity available from your biggest quarter which should allow for a very fast ramp-up.

Exactly. (Although Apple's assembly lead time are perhaps a bit shorter, assuming components are available).
post #42 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

.


That's over 110 million additional potential CDMA iPhone 4 subs in just 2 world markets.

And how many of those 51M Vivo subs are not using CDMA since Vivo is also a GSM + UMTS operator?

Regs, Jakrko
post #43 of 134
I dimly recall, back when the original iPhone 2G was launched, that AT&T's exclusivity was rumored to be for less than 5 years. It was more like 2 to 4 years. Only later was this changed to 5 years. Here's an article from 2008 claiming that the original deal was only for 2 years after the iPhone 3G was released, until 2010: http://bit.ly/9jSbuS

And who knows how many times the contract has been renegotiated? There might be performance clauses that allow AT&T or Apple an "out" if the other party doesn't hold up its end of the bargain. And AT&T has done some things that may or may not have breached the contract with Apple. (No more unlimited data, etc.)

I was thinking that Apple would just sit back and rope-a-dope all the criticism until the real all-IP all-packet-switched 4G networks were rolled out, in 2012, before updating the iPhone hardware. But even then, Apple would still need backward compatibility to GSM and/or CDMA in fringe areas.

Also, Android is gaining too much market share at the moment. A CDMA iPhone on Verizon and Sprint, though only a short-term solution, would crush Android sales in certain market segments.

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post #44 of 134
Why?????
Because AT&T already knows
and they will have super deals to lock you out of switching
also AT&T upped the cancel cost
it's inevitable with android big growth
apple now wants to really grow this thing
it will counter google fast
get a combo CDMA lte

Also SJ asked FCC to NOT divulge details on it's website
for"competitive" reasons

my only interest is the competition helps push my plan cost DOWN

I love AT&T service in my area never a problem

also let's watch how AT&T and verizon upgrade their networks
over the next few months

verizon network will be strained by a gazillion iPhones
and AT&T wants to convince you to stay

COME ON DOWN (plan of course )
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post #45 of 134
Getting the iPhone would be the only reason I would switch to Verizon. IMO, their entire smartphone line-up is inferior. I'd rather have an iPhone on AT&T's crappy network, than have a crappy phone on Verizon's network. "But you can customize an Android."... LOL, awesome!
post #46 of 134
This is all hearsay except for AT&T discussing the impact of losing iPhone exclusivity. I don't think AT&T would even mention that until just before exclusivity actually does end. Merely bringing up the subject in an official statement could affect their sales and/or stock price. But they're forced to do it to avoid being sued by investors.

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post #47 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

Getting the iPhone would be the only reason I would switch to Verizon. IMO, their entire smartphone line-up is inferior. I'd rather have an iPhone on AT&T's crappy network, than have a crappy phone on Verizon's network. "But you can customize an Android."... LOL, awesome!

Proof positive that (for some) Ignorance Is Truly Bliss.
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #48 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbarriault View Post

I wish this rumour would die already. A Verizon iPhone - which, btw, wouldn't even have the option of a carrier unlock and would only be ever sold with Verizon, a large but limited market - has been set for a guaranteed at least a dozen times since release.

My Friend, Not Really. Verizon has the largest subscriber base in the Untied States, Also the Largest 3g Data Network. CDMA is in 55 countries. India, China, Now Japan. Something that wouldn't be bad for Apple. The real news here is LTE/4g (5-15 mbs per second) being launched in Nov by Verizon, Vodaphone, China Unicomm. Verizon first LTE phones will start launching in fact In JAN. New technology/Launch obviously a much anticipated phone that many want on another network.
The Demand is already there. Market is far from limited.
post #49 of 134
This will NEVER happen.

Verizon is moving away from it's antiquated, slow CDMA network.....LTE is the future. Apple will not manufacture a CDMA iPhone...ever. That means that Verizon won't get an iPhone until it's 4G-LTE footprint is big enough not to rely on CDMA as a backup. Verizon has said that this will not occur until 2013-2014.

If anyone is next, T-Mobile is. They use the same 4G technology. Sprint uses WiMax and are once again, clueless.
post #50 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahonen View Post

And how many of those 51M Vivo subs are not using CDMA since Vivo is also a GSM + UMTS operator?

Regs, Jakrko

Don't know-- that's why I didn't use them in sales projections.

I was just trying to present the fact that there are CDMA carriers other than those in the US.

For example, Ukraine has 19 million users who are potentially CDMA.

.
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post #51 of 134
Well at least AT&T can run ads talking about how you can use both data and voice at the same time. Not on CDMA, outside of SMS and voice.
post #52 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Proof positive that (for some) Ignorance Is Truly Bliss.

Show us your cool wallpaper...
post #53 of 134
Lets focus on that Verizon sucks issue. As a former Verizon customer i must point out that the people working there stores have all the appeal of traveling snake oil salesmen. It didn't matter if you dropped into a local store front or one of their mall outlets, every service rep seemed to be cut from the same mold. That is enough to keep me off Verizon right there.

The issues with CDMA are real, there is little doubt that service is more limited worldwide. However there is an assumption that one can only have one or the other. Technology marches forward folks so a CDMA and LTE combo chip is very likely with the addition of GSM possible too. Just as Apple has gone from ARM 11 to Cortex A8 so to have radio chips been improving and adding capability. One doesn't need to assume that a Verizon phone would be CDMA only.

About the only way that i would go with Verizon is if they offered up a much better plan on an unlocked device that also supported GSM. The reality is one really needs GSM support if you travel extensively. Further you need an unlocked phone simoly to make travel inexpensive. So that is one way for Verizon to get me as a customer, unlock the phone and give me a phone that works worldwide.



Dave
post #54 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boer View Post

Somebody please explain to me what use would this CDMA iPhone be when the only place (?) with extensive CDMA networks is the USA? The previous iPhone models work everywhere as GSM networks are ubiqutous globally.

How would this new iPhone be branded? "The new iPhone USA. Because that is where it works.", or "The new iPhone 5. With more limited network coverage."

Or are everyone assuming that the next iPhone would support CDMA in addition to GSM and UMTS? Then it would make sense.

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post #55 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

Show us your cool wallpaper...

Dont knock the wallpaper. When your chosen platform doesnt have an SDK or business model that allows for great mobile app development the best thing about your phone might be its animated wallpaper.
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post #56 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Don't know-- that's why I didn't use them in sales projections.

I was just trying to present the fact that there are CDMA carriers other than those in the US.

For example, Ukraine has 19 million users who are potentially CDMA.

.

And many of those countries will be growing in cellphone users and smartphone users for the foreseeable future with no immediate plans to jump to 3GSM or LTE. Even Verizon, will likely have active CDMA use on their network for another decade if not more, well after they move voice to LTE over IP.
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post #57 of 134
nobody mentions korea. they are arguably the most technology advanced cell phone users in the world. they have a very large population and the country is wired for cdma. you don't hear a lot of complaints about their service.

hyundai and kia are starting to eat into honda and toyota. cdma can't be all bad.
post #58 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Dont knock the wallpaper. When your chosen platform doesnt have an SDK or business model that allows for great mobile app development the best thing about your phone might be its animated wallpaper.

Isn't it funny that pixel density and screen resolution are no longer important? I wonder why?
post #59 of 134
AT&T promotes several phones so I see no reason why Apple shouldn't have a CDMA capable phone ready and just get on with Verizon as a carrier. Apple should get on with T-Mobile first though.
post #60 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by theobold View Post

My Friend, Not Really. Verizon has the largest subscriber base in the Untied States, Also the Largest 3g Data Network. CDMA is in 55 countries. India, China, Now Japan. Something that wouldn't be bad for Apple. The real news here is LTE/4g (5-15 mbs per second) being launched in Nov by Verizon, Vodaphone, China Unicomm. Verizon first LTE phones will start launching in fact In JAN. New technology/Launch obviously a much anticipated phone that many want on another network.
The Demand is already there. Market is far from limited.

Ah, but you are mixing things up here and being very misleading yourself.

Listing off countries that have *some* CDMA networks is not the same thing as listing off CDMA markets that Apple (or anyone) can exploit in a financially viable way. Japan may have some areas of CDMA but it's certainly not the standard by any means, nor is it close to the coverage of the GSM networks. I suspect half of your other examples are similar.

The majority of the world (by a huge margin), is GSM and all the countries that Apple sells in have established full-coverage GSM networks. All the countries that use CDMA also have carriers that use the more modern GSM technology and everyone is moving to LTE anyway.

Arguably, (almost certainly) the next iPhone will have LTE capabilities, there are already some semi-4G phones out there and all the LTE networks are going to be coming online, or accepting customers in the coming year. The next iPhone will likely be "iPhone 4G" and will be LTE that defaults down to GSM.

For that reason, there is absolutely no valid case to be made for producing a CDMA iPhone with one exception. If they want to give Android users a hard time and essentially stop the growth of Android sales in the USA dead in their tracks, they might release a CDMA phone to address that part of the market. Alternatively, they might produce an LTE/CDMA phone, just like the LTE/GSM phone they are working on now.

The so-called "Verizon iPhone" could also easily just be next year's LTE/GSM iPhone working on the LTE part of Verizon's network. It might not be a CDMA phone at all.
post #61 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezduzit View Post

nobody mentions korea. they are arguably the most technology advanced cell phone users in the world. they have a very large population and the country is wired for cdma. you don't hear a lot of complaints about their service.

hyundai and kia are starting to eat into honda and toyota. cdma can't be all bad.

Besides the talk that China has the most CDMA subs the talk that Korea is so advanced and uses CDMA has got to be the 2nd most oddball thing I hear on this topic. LG Telecom is the ONLY carrier in S. Korea that appears to be only using CDMA-based network, and they only have 8 to 10M subs. The two largest carriers, SK Telecom and KT account for about 25M and 15M subs, respectively, and they are listed as having CdmaOne for 2G and UMTS/HSPA for 3G.

As for being so advanced, we heard this about Japan, too. Yet the iPhone is the fastest selling and probably the best selling phone in S. Korea. From my PoV being able to get TV on your phone wasn’t a deal breaker to many S. Koreans.
Quote:
According to KT, who has exclusive rights to sell the iPhone in South Korea, it was the fastest pace to break the 500,000 mark among local smartphone products, as it sold on average 4,000 devices a day since it first became available here in late November.

"Only seven countries worldwide saw more than 500,000 new iPhone users in less than a year," KT said in a statement.
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post #62 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

If it happens... It Happens.

Personally, I have no interest whatsoever in something with a 3.5inch screen (regardless of pixel density), and no longer even buy iPhone/iPod Touch apps, only apps specifically created for my iPad.

I'm sure that there are many who will be trilled as the prospect of having the iPhone on a much more reliable network (for now that is), but I'm not one of them, and will continue to support Verizon's Android-Powered smartphone lineup exclusively.

Bully for you.
post #63 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

Show us your cool wallpaper...

Better Yet... How about you show everyone your (nonexistent) collection of Android-powered devices
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post #64 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

The average users is rather simple. They could care less about pixel density or screen resoluation on a 3.5 inch display. I doubt most users could even tell the difference between any of the top smartphones.

If a smartphone has social network apps, games and a cam about 90% of the smartphone users are happy.

True smartphone power users are like PC gamers they take up about 1-3% of the market.

The reality is 99% of the apps used on iOS are also available on Andriod. Which is why Android will continue to grow at a rapid pace.

I see this differently. I see the iPhone was lagging behind in pixel density. While it was ahead of the curve, if ever so slightly in 2007 when it debuted, by the 2nd and 3rd iterations the 162ppi was pretty weak. The bar had moved and this was a definite weak point for the device.

With the iPhone 4, while display is great, not just from pixel density, but from the new manufacturing process with the other elements and the use of IPS panel and a brighter backlit. And even though its moved the bar quite a bit further ahead the newer smartphones coming to market have a decent enough display that make this less of a victory as it once was. Its more of an its about time feature, despite the displays impressiveness.

Moving forward, now that we can feasibly exceed the pixels the average human eye can differentiate any dramatic advances wont seem that impressive.

As for telling the difference. I was in an AT&T store the other day and noticed how awful the displays looked on those phones, including the 3GS. I dont recall even noticing the pixels before but now I cant help to see how jagged and poor the image really is. Some of the other smartphones looked better than the 3GS, but not nearly as great as the iPhone 4. Expectations slide right along with technology.
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post #65 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Better Yet... How about you show everyone your (nonexistent) collection of Android-powered devices

Are you trying to make a point? If so, you're failing miserably.
post #66 of 134
If AT&T exclusivity does in fact end January 11, 2011, they are making some weird choices to encourage current customers to stay.

Starting with the data package pricing. No unlimited.

Next, not expanding 3G coverage throughout their networks three years later.

If it goes VZW, there will be a lot of people make the move regardless of where they stand on their contract. I guess we will also see the strain on VZW and if there is no strain, ouch for AT&T.
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post #67 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by aplnub View Post

If AT&T exclusivity does in fact end January 11, 2011, they are making some weird choices to encourage current customers to stay.

Starting with the data package pricing. No unlimited.

Next, not expanding 3G coverage throughout their networks three years later.

If it goes VZW, there will be a lot of people make the move regardless of where they stand on their contract. I guess we will also see the strain on VZW and if there is no strain, ouch for AT&T.

They allowed all current users to maintain unlimited plans. The new plans actually make it considerably cheaper for most people. If they lose the fraction of a percent of users abusing the network and wreaking havoc on their towers (like me with 40GB per month usage via tethering) then I have to think that benefits their network which benefits their customers using that network.

Which carriers have plans that allow for unlimited data. Ive looked for some with MiFI and Data Connect cards but they all seem to show a 5GB maximum for $60/month.

Note that AT&T also allowed customers who bought the 3GS last year to get the iPhone 4 without a penalty and before they fulfilled the contract. This could be a sign that the contract is ending within their years iPhone release as it locked all those iPhone users into 2 more years along with upping the ETF from $175 -$5x to $350-$10X where x equals the number of months completed.
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post #68 of 134
The only reason I doubt this is that one of the main reasons Apple would go to the trouble of releasing a CDMA iPhone is to blunt the impact of Android. Releasing a Sprint iPhone only would do nothing to achieve this goal. I also think that Apple views a CDMA iPhone as a temporary holdover until LTE is rolled out. With Sprint going Wi-Max, I wonder if Apple would release a phone on that network at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

.

Here's a thought?

Could Apple successfully release a CDMA iPhone without a Verizon deal?

Let' look at the US potential for a CDMA iPhone:



If Apple signs up Sprint Nextel they would gain an immediate 48.2 million potential subscribers-- or an addition of 50% of their current potential with AT&T. If Apple signs up the second tier carriers, that's another 40 million potential subscribers.

Gene Munster estimates that US iPhone sales for this year will be "AT&T which we estimate will sell 15.8M units to its sub base of 82.5M." That equals 19% of the AT&T subscribes (for the whole year-- or [roughly] 5% of the subscriber base per quarter.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...t_verizon.html

Apple's world-wide sales last year skewed to the last quarter Oct-Dec-- about 35%.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IP...er_quarter.svg

Let's be conservative, and not take into account any buzz associated with the iPhone being available for the first time on these carriers. Also, let's ignore the second tier carriers and assume only Sprint Nextel's 48 million subscribers. Finally, lets assume that Apple announces availability of a CDMA iPhone on Sprint beginning Oct 1, 2010.

Assume Munster's [adjusted} percentage applies--5% per quarter of total subs. We'll ignore any skewing of 4th quarter holiday sales.

48 million Nextel subs x 5% penetration == 2.4 million CDMA iPhone 4s to Nextel in 4Q CY 2010.

Not too bad!

But the story doesn't end there. If you cherry pick some world-wide carriers, you get a lot more potential CDMA iPhone 4 subs.



and



That's over 110 million additional potential CDMA iPhone 4 subs in just 2 world markets.


Finally, a CDMA iPhone 4 deal with Sprint would certainly end the AT&T exclusivity agreement.

That potentially opens up a deal with T-Moblle and its 33.6 million subs for a GSM iPhone 4.


Hmmmm.


All charts are from links at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...work_operators

.
post #69 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Are you trying to make a point? If so, you're failing miserably.

I think he's saying that in order to know whether walking into the path of a tractor trailer is a bad idea or not, you must first do it yourself. Of course, you and I both know better.

At least, that's what they taught us about the iPhone 4 - you know, the device that they do not own.
post #70 of 134
Not true. We have an Incredible and I find myself using my old iPhone a lot for apps I can't get on the Android store. Games, for example, are much better on iOS than Android. And even when there are two versions of the same app, the one on the iPhone is always better, at least in my experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

The reality is 99% of the apps used on iOS are also available on Andriod. Which is why Android will continue to grow at a rapid pace.
post #71 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

They allowed all current users to maintain unlimited plans. The new plans actually make it considerably cheaper for most people. If they lose the fraction of a percent of users abusing the network and wreaking havoc on their towers (like me with 40GB per month usage via tethering) then I have to think that benefits their network which benefits their customers using that network.

Which carriers have plans that allow for unlimited data. Ive looked for some with MiFI and Data Connect cards but they all seem to show a 5GB maximum for $60/month.

Note that AT&T also allowed customers who bought the 3GS last year to get the iPhone 4 without a penalty and before they fulfilled the contract. This could be a sign that the contract is ending within their years iPhone release as it locked all those iPhone users into 2 more years along with upping the ETF from $175 -$5x to $350-$10X where x equals the number of months completed.

I understand. I think the unlimited plan should have stayed on the table and not be removed as an option for new signups or people that did not have it and decide they want it now.

I have purchased an iPhone on opening day each time. I appreciate their willingness to accommodate my desire to upgrade too much.

I am just pointing out that AT&T, with a network that has horrible coverage with or without 3G, should not take so many chances gambling if they know that they are losing the phone come January. If they do and VZW looks like a good move a month in, I'm gone and so is my company.

Has my coverage or user experience decreased because of people who gobble bandwidth? Not that I am aware of. There is nothing they can do to fix coverage short of adding towers and this is something they have really drug their feet on.
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post #72 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

He is actually making a decent point about a problem that happens here alot. People making comments about products they don't use.

If someone is going to bash Android at least make sure you have used an Android phone for more then 10 mins.

Interesting. Shall we recall your comments about the iPad before it was released?

You people kill me.
post #73 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

If someone is going to bash Android at least make sure you have used an Android phone for more then 10 mins.

Here you go, you got your wish:

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadash View Post

We have an Incredible and I find myself using my old iPhone a lot for apps I can't get on the Android store. Games, for example, are much better on iOS than Android. And even when there are two versions of the same app, the one on the iPhone is always better, at least in my experience.
post #74 of 134
Adding Sprint to Verizon's wireless market share brings the potential CDMA market to 43% of the total US market. Not insignificant, considering AT&T has about 25% of the market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

God I hate Verizon and CDMA.

Probably as much as I hate Sprint.
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post #75 of 134
I'll wait for Apple or Verizon to say something.
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post #76 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Yet I own an iPad and my view of it remain the same. For me its a toy.

"If someone is going to bash Android at least make sure you have used an Android phone for more then 10 mins."

Yet you hadn't even put your hands on the device when you were running your mouth. Hypocrite.

And in this case, please tell me how long have I played with an Android phone. Otherwise, you're talking out of the side of your neck again.
post #77 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

Getting the iPhone would be the only reason I would switch to Verizon. IMO, their entire smartphone line-up is inferior. I'd rather have an iPhone on AT&T's crappy network, than have a crappy phone on Verizon's network. "But you can customize an Android."... LOL, awesome!

and malware, get to share all your contacts with the world.....good times good times
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post #78 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

"If someone is going to bash Android at least make sure you have used an Android phone for more then 10 mins."

Yet you hadn't even put your hands on the device when you were running your mouth. Hypocrite.

And in this case, please tell me how long have I played with an Android phone. Otherwise, you're talking out of the side of your neck again.

great point....so i did went to a verizon kiosk and held two....just like apple said not to, didn't take 3 minutes to see the difference....can't customize the signal loss....i asked the guy....he said
are you waiting for it.....he said "try holding it like this..." no joke..that's what he said.......its a joke

so tell me why i should switch....the apple universe is what makes me stay
now if the android universe was as capable i'd consider it

can android sync automatically my notes/ to do list with my wife?
thats the only real deficiency i find in my present iphone 3g, and mine is still better than the android this guy shows me.....compared to a 3g and i can't talk and surf at the same time.

they are two gens behind ha ha
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post #79 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

I'm on an Evo right now. And I own an iPad. And a ton of Apple stock.

if 4g was in my area.....now that would turn my neck

what kind of speeds do you get in real life?
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post #80 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbarriault View Post

I wish this rumour would die already. A Verizon iPhone - which, btw, wouldn't even have the option of a carrier unlock and would only be ever sold with Verizon, a large but limited market - has been set for a guaranteed at least a dozen times since release.

I agree. Apple's been pretty clear about the one-size-fits-all. I mean, if they were gonna make a CDMA phone, they would have bent for China as well, which was a 3 fold increase in market size. If they didn't do it for 450 million customers, I don't see them doing it for 80 million. Everyone says they have proof but no one thinks about philosophy. Is Apple really the company to make two phones and troubleshoot for both? Aren't they the ones that make one device that works everywhere? Besides, only Verizon uses CDMA. Not many other providers outside America use it.
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