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Apple obtains exclusive rights to custom, super-durable metal alloy - Page 2

post #41 of 126
8/9/10 at 10:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadash View Post

Here is a quote from the DigiTimes rumor that now sticks out:
"The CDMA iPhone's back plate will be forged from metal materials."
Curiouser and curiouser.

Doesn't that seem unlikely though, since metal would block radio signals? (There's a reason the iPhone 4 has a glass back.) Or does this new Liquidmetal alloy not block RF? If so, that's a pretty interesting feature of the material.
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post #42 of 126
8/9/10 at 10:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maury Markowitz View Post

Actually it's big claim to fame in this area is that it can be injection moulded, like thermoplastics. That means they could ditch the milling entirely. It costs a LOT more money than aluminum, but my guess is for small amounts of material the milling costs might be more than the material.

VERY interesting development.

Maury

It's likely it will show up in the smaller products first then as an alternative to milling tiny iPod cases out of blocks of aluminium perhaps.

Very cool that they have an exclusivity arrangement also although we were told they had the same with lots of products and processes in the past and that hasn't stopped the rest of the industry from shamelessly copying them.
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post #43 of 126
8/9/10 at 10:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Hopefully cheaper too. All the metal unibody designs have increased the prices of the laptops.

The weight should be able to drop in the Mac Pro too but we'll see.

More expensive most likely. This is real expensive stuff. In very small quantities the cost isn't much, but enough for a laptop case might not be cost effective. IPods, iPhones, and possibly even the tablet might be able to use this. The tablet has only one piece and it might be possible to use this to replace that as there are no heavy, or moving components inside. There are some complaints that it's just a bit too heavy for use as a bookreader, and while I haven't found that to be much of a problem, I admit that losing a few ounces would be helpful for that purpose.

But then, it's always possible that Apple has something entirely new in mind that this would be perfect for, and without which, the product would't be practical. If that's so, and it's certainly possible, then cornering the market for electronic use of this product would possibly give them a major advantage in that new product line that other companies wouldn't be able to match for years, if ever.
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post #44 of 126
8/9/10 at 10:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

More expensive most likely. This is real expensive stuff. In very small quantities the cost isn't much, but enough for a laptop case might not be cost effective. IPods, iPhones, and possibly even the tablet might be able to use this. The tablet has only one piece and it might be possible to use this to replace that as there are no heavy, or moving components inside. There are some complaints that it's just a bit too heavy for use as a bookreader, and while I haven't found that to be much of a problem, I admit that losing a few ounces would be helpful for that purpose.

But then, it's always possible that Apple has something entirely new in mind that this would be perfect for, and without which, the product would't be practical. If that's so, and it's certainly possible, then cornering the market for electronic use of this product would possibly give them a major advantage in that new product line that other companies wouldn't be able to match for years, if ever.

I agree.

Some interesting properties of the material I have found in a few minutes of looking:

- It's "bouncy" and objects made of it will flex or bounce before they break or deform.
- It can be made "transparent like glass" and in some instances is referred to as "metallic glass."

If that's true, it could very well make the next iPhone practically indestructible if used for the front and back plates. If the iPhone/iPod antenna is the metallic band and the back and front were this stuff, you'd get great signal reception combined with much higher resistance to breaking.
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post #45 of 126
8/9/10 at 10:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

Great move for Apple that they have entered into an exclusive deal. That way those Android phones can never copy them.

Apple needs more "Apple-Only" stuff.

iOS is more than sufficiently Apple-only.
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post #46 of 126
8/9/10 at 10:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

It's likely it will show up in the smaller products first then as an alternative to milling tiny iPod cases out of blocks of aluminium perhaps.

Very cool that they have an exclusivity arrangement also although we were told they had the same with lots of products and processes in the past and that hasn't stopped the rest of the industry from shamelessly copying them.

If the agreement is exclusive "in perpetuity", then that's exactly what it means. Liquidmetal has patents and trade secrets filed and granted for this. No one else will be making its like any time soon.

It's different from companies copying the way something looks, though if it looks too much like another product, the company can sue over "dress", something Apple did over a dispute involving the design of the original iMac, which they won.
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post #47 of 126
8/9/10 at 10:21am
This is a tiny company, with a market cap of less than $25M. I wonder why Apple did not buy it outright for the whole nine yards, and not just a piece of the IP.

Heck, Mark Hurd could have bought it with just a portion of his severance payment.....
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post #48 of 126
8/9/10 at 10:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunner1954 View Post

If you combine Zr-alloy with Corning Gorilla Glass do you get Transparent aluminum? (Anyone still remember Star Trek?)

A keyboard. How quaint.
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post #49 of 126
8/9/10 at 10:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Mithral is pretty good, but cuendillar is much better. You can make your part out of anything first, and then turn it into cuendillar afterwards, so it's really easy and inexpensive to make things into it. You do need someone with the One Power to make the change though.

Uh, oh... you guys are displaying your true nerd selves...

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #50 of 126
8/9/10 at 10:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I agree.

Some interesting properties of the material I have found in a few minutes of looking:

- It's "bouncy" and objects made of it will flex or bounce before they break or deform.
- It can be made "transparent like glass" and in some instances is referred to as "metallic glass."

If that's true, it could very well make the next iPhone practically indestructible if used for the front and back plates. If the iPhone/iPod antenna is the metallic band and the back and front were this stuff, you'd get great signal reception combined with much higher resistance to breaking.

It's an interesting thought, but like other metals, it's conductive. I'm not sure what that would mean for a screen surface. Either it would be impossible, it would give some characteristic that can't now be achieved. But as it's one whole piece, I don't see how sensing lines could be used to tell where a touch originates from.
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post #51 of 126
8/9/10 at 10:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

This is a tiny company, with a market cap of less than $25M. I wonder why Apple did not buy it outright for the whole nine yards, and not just a piece of the IP.

Heck, Mark Hurd could have bought it with just a portion of his severance payment.....

They probably don't want to make parts for others, and there are contracts that they would have to honor. It would also mean that they would be in the business of manufacturing the metal themselves, and they may not want to do that. We don't know exactly what this license means.
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post #52 of 126
8/9/10 at 10:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach View Post

Hmm?.. Actually as long as you have external antennas, backplates don't need to be radio transparent. See, the iP4 antenna design is a good step in the right direction preparing the way for even more radical design solutions.

The extemal antenna was indeed a radical technology design of the iPhone 4 that many do not fully understand or appreciate. Design wise, there is no reason why the external antena needs to be limited to the metal strip in the iPhone 4 design. However, since the metal is a electrical conductor, Apple has to find ways to minimize "short circuits" which may require thin coatings or boundaries, just like those in silicon wafers or some similar technologies.


CGC
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post #53 of 126
8/9/10 at 10:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Uh, oh... you guys are displaying your true nerd selves...

I've been a nerd since the early sixties, long before it was applied to people like us.

I like to think that the looks and loner part of it doesn't apply.
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post #54 of 126
8/9/10 at 10:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flipangle View Post

From "The Core"! Cheesy movie but I have to admit it wasn't too bad. I have weakness for end-of-the-world movies.

Well, from Avatar... but anyway...

Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others.
15" Matte MacBook Pro: 2.66Ghz i7, 8GB RAM, GT330m 512MB, 512GB SSD

iPhone 5 Black 32GB

iPad 3rd Generation, 32GB

Mac Mini Core2Duo 2.26ghz,...

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Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others.
15" Matte MacBook Pro: 2.66Ghz i7, 8GB RAM, GT330m 512MB, 512GB SSD

iPhone 5 Black 32GB

iPad 3rd Generation, 32GB

Mac Mini Core2Duo 2.26ghz,...

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post #55 of 126
8/9/10 at 10:39am
The Cost of it relates to whether it can be mass produced. And Apple may be the only one in the world where they can put up price of their products while still getting demand exceeding their supply.
Since Aluminum is getting more expensive day by day, Zr-alloy may be able to outweight its investment in the future.

I think the reason why Apple didn't buy it would be because Apple has no interest in dealing with NASA and may be Department of Defense.
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post #56 of 126
8/9/10 at 10:41am
[QUOTE=Maury Markowitz;1693018]Actually it's big claim to fame in this area is that it can be injection moulded, like thermoplastics. That means they could ditch the milling entirely. It costs a LOT more money than aluminum, but my guess is for small amounts of material the milling costs might be more than the material.

VERY interesting development. [QUOTE]

Many metal alloys can be moulded -- just like plastics and glass -- to form all sorts of configurations and forms. Many mass manufactured metal products and parts are manufactured by molding. The "drilling" manufacture, as presented to the layman, of the aluminum unibody for NoteBook Pros might be replaceable with much simpler molding and refinishing manufacture processes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post
This is a tiny company, with a market cap of less than $25M. I wonder why Apple did not buy it outright for the whole nine yards, and not just a piece of the IP.

May not always be the most prudent because industrial metal alloy technology can change rapidly to achieve all sorts of functionality or special uses. The said alloys may be supplanted easily by others in the near future that may even be cheaper or have other more interesting properties. Also as noted, the metal alloys in question are used in various industries. It will distract Apple to become the lincense vendor for the technology.


CGC
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post #57 of 126
8/9/10 at 10:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

HTC & others are only interesting in offering things they can sell as features, even if they don't work properly for as little cost as possible. They're not interested in making the best product possible.
.


Samsung already has a LiquidMetal Phone. I hope that Apple cancels their product. Only the iPhone should be allowed.
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post #58 of 126
8/9/10 at 10:47am
Wow, that's pretty cool. That translates into thinner laptops, desktops, and iPads. Any thinner on the iPhones and iPod and they'll have to call them knives.
Tory Hagen
Break the Wedge!
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Tory Hagen
Break the Wedge!
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post #59 of 126
8/9/10 at 10:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgc0202 View Post

T

Actually, I do not understand the technological rationale for using glass for the back casing even for smaller devices, like a smartphones. I was surprised therefore when the iPhone 4 used glass for the backcasing. It is mostly aesthetic that is lost in the white iPhone 4. One possible technical rationale for "glass backcasing" would have been using the back as "solar battery" area; but that may be a different "glass" technology altogether. Apple has an approved patent for solar powered technology for mobile devices.

CGC


The rationale is not merely technological. In Apple products, form follows function like a hand in a glove. That is why Jony gave us the glass back.
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post #60 of 126
8/9/10 at 10:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksec View Post

I think the reason why Apple didn't buy it would be because Apple has no interest in dealing with NASA and may be Department of Defense.

That makes sense. However, I would worry about the long-term viability of such a small company.

For those willing to take some volatility, its stock can be bought today for $0.44 - it is up $0.16 today, a humongous 57%!

I might go check out a couple of hundred shares. (That'll cost $88.... heck, maybe I should splurge and go for a 1000...).
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post #61 of 126
8/9/10 at 10:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

Samsung already has a LiquidMetal Phone.

Do they? Which one?
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post #62 of 126
8/9/10 at 10:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trajectory View Post

Do they? Which one?

It is featured on the LiquidMetal home page:

http://www.liquidmetal.com/index/

Samsung Ego. It doesn't exactly look like a iPhone Killer. Samsung has lousy taste.
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post #63 of 126
8/9/10 at 10:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgc0202 View Post

Edit: first part removed




May not always be the most prudent because industrial metal alloy technology can change rapidly to achieve all sorts of functionality or special uses. The said alloys may be supplanted easily by others in the near future that may even be cheaper or have other more interesting properties. Also as noted, the metal alloys in question are used in various industries. It will distract Apple to become the lincense vendor for the technology.


CGC

Here's an interesting, somewhat related link concerning Gorilla glass. In this case, it was a waiting game:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_667416.html
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post #64 of 126
8/9/10 at 10:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

It is featured on the LiquidMetal home page:

http://www.liquidmetal.com/index/

Samsung Ego. It doesn't exactly look like a iPhone Killer. Samsung has lousy taste.

Ah, I see it now. Ugly looking phone. Based on this article, it looks like Samsung won't be able to use Liquidmetal anymore now that Apple has an exclusive license. I bet Apple paid big bucks to get that exclusivity.
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post #65 of 126
8/9/10 at 11:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksec View Post

The Cost of it relates to whether it can be mass produced. And Apple may be the only one in the world where they can put up price of their products while still getting demand exceeding their supply.
Since Aluminum is getting more expensive day by day, Zr-alloy may be able to outweight its investment in the future.

I think the reason why Apple didn't buy it would be because Apple has no interest in dealing with NASA and may be Department of Defense.

This will always be more expensive. Aluminum costs what it does because large amounts of electricity needs to be used to refine that metal. But aluminum is the most abundent metal found, so that's not a problem. But this alloy costs more for several reasons, one of which is that the metals involved aren't that plentiful, and will always cost more.
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post #66 of 126
8/9/10 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

Samsung already has a LiquidMetal Phone. I hope that Apple cancels their product. Only the iPhone should be allowed.

Apple can't cancel any contracts Liquidmetal has with others, as they don't own the company. I would imagine that as that phone goes out of production, no more of those products by anyone other that Apple will be allowed.
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post #67 of 126
8/9/10 at 11:12am
I see the Terminator references are already out there, but what about Apple’s move into more and more areas of development, which includes these exclusive contracts. It reminds me a bit of Umbrella Corp from Resident Evil. Apple is setting themselves up for a future that no other CE company can compete with. Sometimes I wonder if it’s too much.


edit: Pipped my Melgross… again. I really should read the entire thread before posting.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #68 of 126
8/9/10 at 11:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

The rationale is not merely technological. In Apple products, form follows function like a hand in a glove. That is why Jony gave us the glass back.

I understand the aesthetic effect of the glass casing in the black iPhone 4 -- both front and back have "glassy black" aesthetic form. The aforementioned aesthetic form is not as apparent with the white iPhone 4.

The technological use of glass, as casing in the front is obvious -- trasparency is required to view the contents, as well as the touch technology. Can you cite any techological rationale to have a glass backcasing for the iPhone 4?

In fact, because it is glass. even a gorilla glass, it is more likely to shutter or break -- front and back -- compared to metal alloys. Thus, it is more imperative to have another outer case for the iPhone 4 because there are more areas that could break or shutter. However, having another outer casing to protect the glass -- both front and back -- would conceal the aesthetic form most of the time.

CGC
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post #69 of 126
8/9/10 at 11:23am
Finally an iPhone that doesn't blend.
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post #70 of 126
8/9/10 at 11:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle76 View Post

Is this the same substance used to make the T-1000 Terminator?

Not yet.
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post #71 of 126
8/9/10 at 11:25am
Awesome. Hope they implement it by middle of next year which is when I am planning to update my macbook.
--SHEFFmachine out
Da Bears!
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post #72 of 126
8/9/10 at 11:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macbrewer View Post

Finally an iPhone that doesn't blend.

it would be pretty funny to see the blender fall apart trying to blend the iPhone.

but looks like it is for the antenna though.
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post #73 of 126
8/9/10 at 11:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

No. The T-1000 and T-X both used mimetic poly-alloy. The T-X used this for its outside coating since it had an internal structure.

Here's what really happened: Skynet sent Marilyn Mansonwait, make that Shirley Mansonback in time to oversee the, ahem, hostile takeover of LiquidMetal Technologies because of their extensive R&D experience in superdurable metal alloys. Once the takeover was finalized, she, um, "terminated" the entire LiquidMetal staff and established herself as CEO. Then, she thought, "Hmmm. LiquidMetal is a cool name and an even cooler idea!" So, mimetic poly-alloy (thanks ghostface!) was developed. And the rest, as they say, is history!



BTW. "unobtanium"WORST FAKE SUBSTANCE NAME EVER!!
What I'm really hoping is that some smart-ass researcher will develop a NEW alloy or molecular something-or-other, and actually CALL it "unobtanium"! THAT would be awesome!

"Don't be a dick!"Wil Wheaton
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post #74 of 126
8/9/10 at 11:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maury Markowitz View Post

Actually it's big claim to fame in this area is that it can be injection moulded, like thermoplastics. That means they could ditch the milling entirely. It costs a LOT more money than aluminum, but my guess is for small amounts of material the milling costs might be more than the material.

VERY interesting development.

Maury

Maybe they will literally encase the electronics in this alloy. No seams or openings at all. Let's see how iFixIt handles that?
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post #75 of 126
8/9/10 at 11:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by malax View Post

I think this is just an intermediate solution. While adamantium would be a decent choice, I'm holding out for mirthil. Powered by dilithium crystals of course.

I would suggest something similar to Diburnium, but considerably more dense
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post #76 of 126
8/9/10 at 11:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogerman2000 View Post

Here's an interesting, somewhat related link concerning Gorilla glass. In this case, it was a waiting game:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_667416.html

I am not sure exactly what you mean by the response. Indeed, glass, and gorilla glass in particular have past, present and future uses that were not anticipated due to other technical and market developments -- one example is fiber optics.

Corning has a better reason to research and explore the multiple and potential uses of glass because it is the focus of the company.

Apple, as it has wisely done, simply licenses these technologies but do not always have to buy the companies that invented the technologies. This provides more flexibility to move on or revert to other technologies, depending on the needs of their products.

CGC
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post #77 of 126
8/9/10 at 11:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I see the Terminator references are already out there, but what about Apples move into more and more areas of development, which includes these exclusive contracts. It reminds me a bit of Umbrella Corp from Resident Evil. Apple is setting themselves up for a future that no other CE company can compete with. Sometimes I wonder if its too much.


edit: Pipped my Melgross again. I really should read the entire thread before posting.

No company can last forever. We're still in the early stages of technological civilization as defined by the use of electricity as a power source. Apple is rising, and will likely do so for some time, as long as they continue to have advantages. But at some point, as things get advanced enough, it's possible that no one company will have any major advantage over another, and this will disappear.

Meanwhile, Apple should have its time in the sun, as others have.
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post #78 of 126
8/9/10 at 11:45am
In regards to the rear glass on the iP4, does anyone else think a rear touch screen would be useful for navigation purposes (e.g., scrolling web pages or game control)? My fat fingers frequently inadvertently click links or ad banners while surfing on my iPhone.
-----------

Actually, I do not understand the technological rationale for using glass for the back casing even for smaller devices, like a smartphones. I was surprised therefore when the iPhone 4 used glass for the backcasing. It is mostly aesthetic that is lost in the white iPhone 4. One possible technical rationale for "glass backcasing" would have been using the back as "solar battery" area; but that may be a different "glass" technology altogether. Apple has an approved patent for solar powered technology for mobile devices.

CGC[/QUOTE]
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post #79 of 126
8/9/10 at 11:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Futuristic View Post

What I'm really hoping is that some smart-ass researcher will develop a NEW alloy or molecular something-or-other, and actually CALL it "unobtanium"! THAT would be awesome!


if I ever develop an alloy, I will defiantly name it something smart, probably unobtainium.
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post #80 of 126
8/9/10 at 11:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

This is a tiny company, with a market cap of less than $25M. I wonder why Apple did not buy it outright for the whole nine yards, and not just a piece of the IP.

Heck, Mark Hurd could have bought it with just a portion of his severance payment.....

The article says this company even makes medical products. I don't think Apple would want to get wrapped up in that, and shutting that section of the company down would just be a horrible idea... among the problems with the other contracts, like some have already stated.
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