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Apple obtains exclusive rights to custom, super-durable metal alloy - Page 3

post #81 of 124
8/9/10 at 11:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I agree.

Some interesting properties of the material I have found in a few minutes of looking:

- It's "bouncy" and objects made of it will flex or bounce before they break or deform.
- It can be made "transparent like glass" and in some instances is referred to as "metallic glass."

If that's true, it could very well make the next iPhone practically indestructible if used for the front and back plates. If the iPhone/iPod antenna is the metallic band and the back and front were this stuff, you'd get great signal reception combined with much higher resistance to breaking.

Bouncy? Made transparent like glass? I would be curious what sort of metals or metal alloys have achieved this. At least, I have not encountered any so far. Will be very informative.
.

CGC
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post #82 of 124
8/9/10 at 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post

Or is it adamantium?

LOL That's Wolverine
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post #83 of 124
8/9/10 at 12:16pm
Years from now we'll look back and mark this as another Apple milestone. It demonstrates the company's creative vision and capability to refine new engineered materials and manufacturing technologies and processes into future product game-changers. In addition to wholly new products, advanced materials will refresh existing products. The MBPs, iPods, iPhones and iPads five years from now are likely to be strikingly different from those today in both form and function.

I admit to being a Fanatical Moderate. I Disdain the Inane. Vyizderzominymororzizazizdenderizorziz?

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I admit to being a Fanatical Moderate. I Disdain the Inane. Vyizderzominymororzizazizdenderizorziz?

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post #84 of 124
8/9/10 at 12:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibitzer View Post

Years from now we'll look back and mark this as another Apple milestone. It demonstrates the company's creative vision and capability to refine new engineered materials and manufacturing technologies and processes into future product game-changers. In addition to wholly new products, advanced materials will refresh existing products. The MBPs, iPods, iPhones and iPads five years from now are likely to be strikingly different from those today in both form and function.

nice post

by the by
all metals are liquid
whats in a name ? 
beatles
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whats in a name ? 
beatles
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post #85 of 124
8/9/10 at 12:41pm
Well... If it worked for the Sandisk Sansa media player way back in 2005, then why shouldn't it work now? http://www.liquidmetaltechnologies.c...ansa060106.pdf

Gotta love that 'innovation'...
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #86 of 124
8/9/10 at 12:45pm
Don't forget ceramics (which can also be made conductive or non conductive, and are naturally lightweight), and metallic/ceramic materials. Fiberglass has already given way to carbon-fiber, and nano-tube materials and fabrics are already finding their way into products. Materials science is fascinating, and is rapidly evolving, and in the area of quantum computing, they are investigating new materials all the time, some of which will undoubtedly make their way into our lives.
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post #87 of 124
8/9/10 at 12:55pm
How about Appleonium.
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post #88 of 124
8/9/10 at 1:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Simply amazing!

http://www.liquidmetal.com/index/

NASA

http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/tec...quidmetal.html

From the NASA article:

Quote:
Now it is being considered by the U.S. Department of Defense as an armor and anti-armor material.
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post #89 of 124
8/9/10 at 1:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

nice post

by the by
all metals are liquid

Everything is liquid at the right temperature and pressure. Mercury is the only liquid metal at room temperature and standard pressure. So I don't know where you're going with this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbonner View Post

How about Appleonium.

Nice! Except it sounds like a Greek princess, or that girl from the Godfather.
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post #90 of 124
8/9/10 at 1:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

This is a tiny company, with a market cap of less than $25M. I wonder why Apple did not buy it outright for the whole nine yards, and not just a piece of the IP.

Heck, Mark Hurd could have bought it with just a portion of his severance payment.....

LOL re: Hurd.

As to why Apple couldn't buy them: I'm guessing they weren't for sale... not every company behaves Oracle or Microsoft.
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post #91 of 124
8/9/10 at 1:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vatdoro View Post

I've worn a tungsten ring for 6 years now, and it's virtually scratch proof. I've taken off the ring and scratched it as hard as I can on cement, brick, metal files, anything.. and still not a scratch on it.

If this liquid metal stuff is more wear resistant than tungsten carbide, I would be flabbergasted. All I can say is I love my AAPL stock.

Hint: tungsten and tungsten carbide are not the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I agree.

Some interesting properties of the material I have found in a few minutes of looking:

- It's "bouncy" and objects made of it will flex or bounce before they break or deform.
- It can be made "transparent like glass" and in some instances is referred to as "metallic glass."

If that's true, it could very well make the next iPhone practically indestructible if used for the front and back plates. If the iPhone/iPod antenna is the metallic band and the back and front were this stuff, you'd get great signal reception combined with much higher resistance to breaking.

Not for the front glass. Liquidmetal is conductive, so the touchscreen wouldn't work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Apple can't cancel any contracts Liquidmetal has with others, as they don't own the company. I would imagine that as that phone goes out of production, no more of those products by anyone other that Apple will be allowed.

No, but the agreement could have called for the patent owners to cancel any existing contracts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

nice post

by the by
all metals are liquid

Wrong. There are crystalline metals.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #92 of 124
8/9/10 at 1:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vatdoro View Post
I've worn a tungsten ring for 6 years now, and it's virtually scratch proof. I've taken off the ring and scratched it as hard as I can on cement, brick, metal files, anything.. and still not a scratch on it.

If this liquid metal stuff is more wear resistant than tungsten carbide, I would be flabbergasted

Tungsten and tungsten carbide may be too heavy, and costly?

CGC
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post #93 of 124
8/9/10 at 1:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgc0202 View Post

Bouncy? Made transparent like glass? I would be curious what sort of metals or metal alloys have achieved this. At least, I have not encountered any so far. Will be very informative.
.

CGC

Others have already pointed out that it is also conductive material so it probably wouldn't work for the front glass, but the bouncy-ness of this stuff is scary-weird. Kind of like flubber almost.

video demonstation here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOEBR...layer_embedded
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post #94 of 124
8/9/10 at 2:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Not sure this would have anything to do with the iPhone. I see this as more related to MBP cases. iPhone seems to be going in a different direction using more glass then metal.

It will most certainly deal with iPhones, iPads, iPod Touch, MacBooks, MacBook Pros, Mac Pros, Xserve, AppleTV, etc. There is a lot this adds to durability, elasticity and deformation shock of impact available to this non-crystalline metal.
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post #95 of 124
8/9/10 at 2:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post



No, but the agreement could have called for the patent owners to cancel any existing contracts.


A contract is an agreement between two or more parties. Unless there is some clause in the contract that gives less than all parties the right to opt out, or cancel, usually for some specific reason mentioned in the contract, all parties must agree.

Apple hasn't purchased the company, so that isn't an opt out cause. Liquidmetal did set up a company to manage tne licenses, and that company is what Apple is dealing with here. It's also licensing back to the parent company licensing agreements for all other uses.

But they can't simply say that they've licensed this to Apple and so all other contracts are null and void. There were times in business when I would have loved to do that, but I couldn't.
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post #96 of 124
8/9/10 at 2:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Others have already pointed out that it is also conductive material so it probably wouldn't work for the front glass, but the bouncy-ness of this stuff is scary-weird. Kind of like flubber almost.

video demonstation here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOEBR...layer_embedded

From the video, the steel balls dropped on the flat surface of the metal were the ones bouncing -- to demonstrate transfer of stored kinetic energy on the surface of the three metals used. I doubt that an Apple iPhone using the material as casing will make the phone bouncy.

Conductivity of a material per se does not have to disqualify its use for the front material. Glass itself is conductive, e.g., heat conductive. It is the ability and efficiency of certain metal alloys to conduct electricity that may affect (disqualify) their potential use for the front screen.

At least for the screen, it requires transparency. Any image of a transparent form of the product?

CGC
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post #97 of 124
8/9/10 at 2:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagman View Post

Don't forget ceramics (which can also be made conductive or non conductive, and are naturally lightweight), and metallic/ceramic materials. Fiberglass has already given way to carbon-fiber, and nano-tube materials and fabrics are already finding their way into products. Materials science is fascinating, and is rapidly evolving, and in the area of quantum computing, they are investigating new materials all the time, some of which will undoubtedly make their way into our lives.

But on the other hand, you have people echoing that line from Star Trek "you can't change the laws of physics". This was also used as an excuse for why aluminum Powerbook G4s and original MacBook Pros were so difficult to take apart and service.

Apple should not make laptops easier to service. Making a laptop easy to service would make it impossibly large and heavy. Never mind the fact that the unibody MacBook Pros are thinner, lighter and easier to service than the original MacBook Pro.
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post #98 of 124
8/9/10 at 2:49pm
But does it make a good antenna?
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post #99 of 124
8/9/10 at 3:18pm
Oh my goodness! I know this is very off topic but I just found the most shocking announcement from my mobile provider





The Retina display on iPhone 4 is the sharpest, most vibrant, highest-resolution phone screen ever, with four times the pixel count of previous iPhone models. In fact, the pixel density is so high that the human eye is unable to distinguish individual pixels.

This device is currently out of stock. The estimated delivery time is about 10 weeks
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post #100 of 124
8/9/10 at 4:06pm
Is it conductive? May be a great fix for the so called Antennagate problem.
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post #101 of 124
8/9/10 at 5:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by r00fus View Post

LOL re: Hurd.

As to why Apple couldn't buy them: I'm guessing they weren't for sale... not every company behaves Oracle or Microsoft.

I am sorry to be cynical about this, but there is a price at which just about anything will sell in the US (corporate sector).
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post #102 of 124
8/9/10 at 5:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

No, its Unobtanium.

It's not quite as good as Unobtanium, which James Cameron already holds the patents on. I think Apples new acquisition is a rebranding of another alloy called, reallyhardtogetdashitium.
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post #103 of 124
8/9/10 at 5:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach View Post

Oh my goodness! I know this is very off topic but I just found the most shocking announcement from my mobile provider





The Retina display on iPhone 4 is the sharpest, most vibrant, highest-resolution phone screen ever, with four times the pixel count of previous iPhone models. In fact, the pixel density is so high that the human eye is unable to distinguish individual pixels.

This device is currently out of stock. The estimated delivery time is about 10 weeks

Tell me about it. I ordered one online about an hour after it became available in Canada, and it's still going to be a month before they even ship the thing.

Worse is I've heard a lot of stories about poorly put together iPhones, the odds of getting one that actually works seem kind of small at this point.
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post #104 of 124
8/9/10 at 5:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Tell me about it. I ordered one online about an hour after it became available in Canada, and it's still going to be a month before they even ship the thing.

Worse is I've heard a lot of stories about poorly put together iPhones, the odds of getting one that actually works seem kind of small at this point.

Don't let the Internet win! The Internet is an echo chamber of negativity.

There will be bad units ships, but the likelihood of you getting one seems no higher to me than any other CE on the market. I would even bet other manufacturers have a higher percentage of issues but no one cares enough about most of their products to expect perfection or make a fuss.

I did have two friends with iPhone 4s that had HW issues but they were replaced right away with functional units, so at the very least you know that Apple will at least stand by and honor their product if you are unlucky enough to grab defective unit
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post #105 of 124
8/9/10 at 6:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jb510 View Post

So how is this likely to play out in Apple's product lines?

Will this quickly or slowly replace all the aluminum or steel components? Can they mill this stuff like aluminum for unibody cases? What is the material cost in comparison to aluminum?

This posting reads way to much like a press release and too little like journalism.

This material is so different from other engineering materials that it is difficult to predict with precision what Apple will do.

The whole field of material science is huge. For demanding applications you need to consider many factors when using a material. Think of the aluminum can. To make that the right alloy is chosen, the material is thinned and even the crystal structure is altered. Too many parallel grains and the metal will crack when stretched into the shape of a can.

Think of the steps often involved to make something like a frame or case. The metal is cast, probably heat treated to adjust the crystal structure, it is milled or extruded or bent to the right shape. Holes are drilled and tapped. Excess material is cut away. Rough edges are sanded or otherwise smoothed. Sometimes there are limitations on making things because the alloy of choice can't be bent or stretched as desired and still keep it's strength.

The claim for this material is that you can do all of this in one step and do it with great precision and the resulting material has all sorts of great properties. That is amazing.
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post #106 of 124
8/9/10 at 6:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle76 View Post

Is this the same substance used to make the T-1000 Terminator?


Yes, Apple will be releasing Skynet 1.0 in January. It works only with Verizon.
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post #107 of 124
8/9/10 at 6:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgc0202 View Post

Bouncy? Made transparent like glass? I would be curious what sort of metals or metal alloys have achieved this. At least, I have not encountered any so far. Will be very informative.
.

CGC

Don't you remember how Chief Engineer Montgomery Scott invented transparent aluminum in San Francisco in 1986 using the original Macintosh as chronicled in Star Trek documentary series.

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Transparent_aluminum




Interesting ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transparent_aluminium
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post #108 of 124
8/9/10 at 8:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgc0202 View Post

Bouncy? Made transparent like glass? I would be curious what sort of metals or metal alloys have achieved this. At least, I have not encountered any so far. Will be very informative.
.

CGC

He got it wrong, transparency to light is not a property of amorphous metals. I think he saw the word 'glass' in the Wiki article and thought it implied transparency. Being prone to cracking and shattering like glass is a property.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

nice post

by the by
all metals are liquid

No they are not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cgc0202 View Post

Tungsten and tungsten carbide may be too heavy, and costly?


CGC

Same for Amorphous Metals - heavy and costly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ch2co View Post

But does it make a good antenna?

Yes.

I found this and thought it quite interesting:

Quote:
As applied to mobile phones it means that it is possible to create unique phone bodies - light and durable at the same time. Of course the price of such phone will exceed the price of the standard handset made from aluminum alloy in 20 or 30 times.

http://www.mobile-review.com/article...luxury-e.shtml
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post #109 of 124
8/9/10 at 8:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

I found this and thought it quite interesting:

Quote:
As applied to mobile phones it means that it is possible to create unique phone bodies - light and durable at the same time. Of course the price of such phone will exceed the price of the standard handset made from aluminum alloy in 20 or 30 times.

http://www.mobile-review.com/article...luxury-e.shtml

Interesting. One of the benefits Apple reserves of cash and excessive units sales per model compared to any other premium smartphone vendor is their ability to potentially make this viable. Case in point, the increasing number of milled aluminum components. Now in the Mac Mini and iPhone, both of which I still find shocking.

PS: AnandTech released a review of the new MacMini yesterday. While I don't agree with many of his points about including extras just because or that Mac OS X makes for a great HTPC, he certainly has some great technical data about how committed to being "green" Apple is with a focus on power efficiency. Good review overall, especially Page 8 which how's that even with 2GB RAM it bests a 5yo Mac Pro G5. Craziness!
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post #110 of 124
8/9/10 at 9:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by juanm105 View Post

Don't you remember how Chief Engineer Montgomery Scott invented transparent aluminum in San Francisco in 1986 using the original Macintosh as chronicled in Star Trek documentary series.

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Transparent_aluminum

Interesting ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transparent_aluminium

I am not sure if you are jesting about the first link. Wikipedia is not always acccurate; but, if you read the second link more thoroughly -- focus on the thickness of the material as well as the use of the term "transparency". It is a more technical use of the term of "transparency" with respect to certain forms of radiations only, in the wikipedia article, this would be specific soft X-ray -- not transparency to the entire "light" radiation sprectrum to render objects like glass, plexiglass or certain crystals "light transparent", in a layman's term. Also, the transparency to X-ray, described in the article, was transient (temporary state).

Most important the material itself is very thin (50nm)***; that is nanometer. Casing materials are around the millimeter (mm) give or take a few micrometers (um) in thickness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

He got it wrong, transparency to light is not a property of amorphous metals. I think he saw the word 'glass' in the Wiki article and thought it implied transparency. Being prone to cracking and shattering like glass is a property.

Indeed, I was wondering if there were new "commericially" available transparent metal alloys that I was not aware of, especially as casing materials. So far, if they indeed exist, I have not seen them yet in my "window shoppings".

CGC

***The entire earth, however thick it is, for example is "transparent" to certain subparticles released by stars, like the sun.
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post #111 of 124
8/9/10 at 9:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by juanm105 View Post

Yes, Apple will be releasing Skynet 1.0 in January. It works only with Verizon.

OMG! When the Verizon iPhone is announced, Skynet will make all iPhones SELF-AWARE, and they will network with each other (similar to the "Colossus, the Forbin Project"), and both Verizon and ATT will wipe out humanity, first by iPodding them whilst they sleep, Mac Attacking them at work, and iPadding their brains with digital overload. Switch to Android if you value your life, pretend you are Droids, and you will be spared.
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post #112 of 124
8/10/10 at 1:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagman View Post

Skynet will make all iPhones SELF-AWARE, and they will network with each other

Sorry to disillusion you, but the only 'awareness' iPhones possess, is the current location of your wallet and how best to siphon off the contents.
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post #113 of 124
8/10/10 at 1:00am
Forget about LiquidMetal, Mithril, Adamantium or Unobtanium. Everyone nows Laconia makes the strongest ones until you can equip you and your team with the full set of NeiMac, NeiPhone, NeiPod and NeiPad.
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post #114 of 124
8/10/10 at 1:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

Android will always lose when it comes to hardware. HTC & others are only interesting in offering things they can sell as features, even if they don't work properly for as little cost as possible. They're not interested in making the best product possible..

Except: http://www.liquidmetal.com/SamsungEgo.pdf

Remember the "Never say never!"?

Regs, Jarkko
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post #115 of 124
8/10/10 at 1:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Interesting. One of the benefits Apple reserves of cash and excessive units sales per model compared to any other premium smartphone vendor is their ability to potentially make this viable. Case in point, the increasing number of milled aluminum components. Now in the Mac Mini and iPhone, both of which I still find shocking.

I don't think Apple have in mind to use amorphous metals for large scale components like casings, they are way too addicted to their hefty profit margins. They are not in the habit of trading profit for technological leadership.

I think it more likely they have in mind, very highly stressed, small sub components that can be formed by injection molding instead of machining. Apple always seems to strive to reduce costs, not increase them. If you just want scratch resistance and a durable finish, ceramics are probably a much cheaper and lighter alternative. The Rado watch springs to mind.
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post #116 of 124
8/10/10 at 4:06am
Hmm, it all begins to make sense. The moment that Steve uploads his conciousness into Apple Skynet, he will make his move and will take over the world. In the meantime Apple is subplanting all world leaders with Terminators. I already thought that the governor of California couldn't be the real Arnie
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post #117 of 124
8/10/10 at 6:32am
I love the context-specific ads on this website. The one I am seeing now is for metallurgical testing. Not exactly what you would expect on an Apple discussion board.
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post #118 of 124
8/10/10 at 7:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunner1954 View Post

If you combine Zr-alloy with Corning Gorilla Glass do you get Transparent aluminum? (Anyone still remember Star Trek?)

"Star Trek: Save the Whales", sure...
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post #119 of 124
8/10/10 at 7:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

Sorry to disillusion you, but the only 'awareness' iPhones possess, is the current location of your wallet and how best to siphon off the contents.

All this focus by Cnocbui on money must mean he has none...

Of course, many of us have done very well by investing in Apple, Inc., especially at the right times like April 2003 myself (and I have the Schwab Trade Confirmation to prove that... (Yet another company started in 1977)) for under $7 per share.

Good thing I'm under a pseudonym - otherwise I'd have to post a darn disclosure and disclaimer.
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post #120 of 124
8/10/10 at 8:56am
At the next event Steve is going to pull back the curtain to reveal the iWeapon X. The future of killing machine that can run multiple applications, assuming that they have been approved by apple first. But i bet it won't run flash.
David Honig  Macintern, Virtua Computers www.virtuacomputers.com, www.twitter.com/virtuacomputers, http://thebigappleblog.com/
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David Honig  Macintern, Virtua Computers www.virtuacomputers.com, www.twitter.com/virtuacomputers, http://thebigappleblog.com/
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