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Report: Next Apple TV to be renamed iTV, drop 1080p - Page 4

post #121 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by MandrakeTheMagician View Post

Drop 1080p !!!!

What a mistake !!!!

You're right but from a marketing view-point only - "Full HD" sells.

The 720p/1080p resolution is rendered secondary by bit-rate constraints that download/streaming demands. 1080p may look better than 720p at 12-50Mbps that Cable/Sat/BD delivers but the same doesn't hold at 3.5Mbps which is what the Movie studios are currently providing Apple. Besides aren't us Apple fans supposed to be able to see through the marketing specs?

McD
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post #122 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

a smaller, cheaper device that uses network streaming rather than Apple TV's hard drive for local storage

Nooooooooooo!! What about outside the US where the internet still sucks?

We need to go the other way and have TBs of local storage so our iPod/Pad/Phone-only users can have local media/email for sync/streaming.

McD
Android proves (as Windows & VHS did before it) that if you want to control people, give us choices and the belief we're capable of making them. We're all 'living' the American dream.
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Android proves (as Windows & VHS did before it) that if you want to control people, give us choices and the belief we're capable of making them. We're all 'living' the American dream.
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post #123 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


The broadcast HD is so highly compressed it's of lower quality than the average upscaled DVD. anyone who thinks they are getting 1080p over the wire from CBS or PBS is dreaming or uninformed.


Some people just look for one simple number and they think that it means everything. 1080 is bigger than 720, so it must be better, right?

Wrong.

Apple will show everybody that numbers and specs and all that geek mumbo jumbo doesn't really mean anything - it is the User Experience. And at that, nobody in the world does it like Apple. Especially not the TV Companies.

Apple is poised to change the entire industry, from the ground up, disrupting all the existing paradigms, and all the whiners care about is one number. Pathetic.
post #124 of 231
I think 720 would be fine for what this device will do, but who really knows?
I don't think this will replace the AppleTV because that ship has sailed, but it may be a streaming only device and concept, thus the need to keep the data rates lower. This could very well replace your cable service as well. All on demand TV, game, app and cloud serving media network... oh, and throw in facetime on the TV!!!!
The AppleTV is just a fancy cable adaptor anyway. The storage part is becoming insignificant and sometimes actually gets in the way of what you want to do, which is to view content. You should be able to buy or rent content from one outlet and have it instantly show up on any device you have under your name without having to worry about storage or losing or transferring a file, or having the file become obsolete or incompatible.

Sounds pretty cool.
Buy that Apple stock now!
post #125 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by palegolas View Post

That Wii-mote controller clone Apple filed for might come in handy running the iOS without touch.

I've been saying the same thing for ages


http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._apple_tv.html
post #126 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by MandrakeTheMagician View Post

The difference between 720p and 1080p is just HUGE

No it isn't.

From 480p to 720p there is a 167% increase in pixel density.

From 720p to 1080p there is a 125% increase in pixel density.

The difference between the retina display an other leading smart phone screens is around a 21% increase in pixel density.

So the jump from "HD" to "Full HD" isn't as big as the jump from "SD" to "HD"... but it almost is. I suppose it depends on how you define "huge".
post #127 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by iVlad View Post

Too much iNames! This is getting very old. Apple TV sounds very nice.

This coming from iVlad?!
post #128 of 231
Why drop 1080p only to be forced to reintroduce it later? I hope that is not true, other then that sound like a pretty good idea.
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post #129 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple sells HD content in iTunes as 720p. Higher resolution 1080p is an alternative HD standard, but video experts note that the difference in resolution is not visible to users at a normal TV viewing distance unless the screen is larger than 55 inches.

Depending on what is meant by "normal TV viewing distance", this statement is just plain wrong. I sit seven feet from my 50" plasma; the difference between 720p and 1080i broadcasts is dramatic.
post #130 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by MandrakeTheMagician View Post

Most consumers can't even tell the difference between 720p, 1080p and upscaled DVD ???????

Are you kidding ??? Just open your eyes ....

The difference between 720p and 1080p is just HUGE !!!!!!!!!!!!

Yup.

no 1080P

FAIL.

For that reason, I think that rumour is wrong.
What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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post #131 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

From 480p to 720p there is a 167% increase in pixel density.

From 720p to 1080p there is a 125% increase in pixel density.

The difference between the retina display an other leading smart phone screens is around a 21% increase in pixel density.

So the jump from "HD" to "Full HD" isn't as big as the jump from "SD" to "HD"... but it almost is. I suppose it depends on how you define "huge".

For me "huge" isn't 1080p though I can appreciate the quality. Huge to me is VHS to DVD. The only time I've been amazed since is when looking at specifically plasma TVs in HD.

There gets a point where where I'm just fine with a picture. 720p was that point. Maybe I'll get amazed in another 5 years when 4k comes out.
post #132 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

For me "huge" isn't 1080p though I can appreciate the quality. Huge to me is VHS to DVD.

The resolution increase from DVD to 1080p is more drastic than from VHS to DVD.
post #133 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Why do people keep going on about 1080p just because it's a higher number? We're talking about video streaming here, which is limited by consumer bandwidth.

Because people claim streaming/downloads are a competitor to Blu-ray,a nd since I have poor bandwidth Blu-ray is my choice of product as I prefer the quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

If you can see the difference then you're too close to the TV.

I didn't realise you were my mother, I can sit as close, or far away from the TV as I choose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

This $99 720p streaming box will be a huge hit and help combat online piracy because it's the one type of service that can rival the convenience of P2P downloads. With P2P downloads, they are free but the download out of order so you can't stream it so you have to wait - that's no good if you decide to watch something right away. With the instant box, you pick, click it and watch it and Apple use high quality encoders so it's good 720p.

It won't combat online piracy, the reason most people pirate movies are because they don't want to pay for them, getting them to buy isn't going to fix it.
post #134 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

The resolution increase from DVD to 1080p is more drastic than from VHS to DVD.

That may be true in specs but it's not the way it affected me. The move from VHS to DVD struck me immediately because the picture went from blurry to sharp. When I initially saw a Spiderman on a 1080p screen in a Sony store 3 years ago I thought "That's pretty nice".

My point is that specs can say one thing while the experience is another. Some may have a different experience but I suspect I'm in the majority.

I wonder what will happen a year from now when people are complaining why the iTV doesn't support 3D.
post #135 of 231
If you stay at 37 "or below 720 is fine. You need 1080 at 40 or above.
You also need the new LED TV not the old cheep on sale LCD's
I have a friend who just purchased a Sony 55 3D for $ 3500.00
I'll be visiting him for all the Who Dat Saints games.
post #136 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorotea View Post

No networking issues here. And it is used daily for music and video.

Google for "apple tv network problem" and "apple tv sync problem" sometime.

Interestingly I spent way too much time last weekend trying to get mine to sync with iTunes again. Never did get it to work.

Anyway great that YOURS works, just saying that the networking needs improvement because problems aren't uncommon.
post #137 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by macnyc View Post

This coming from iVlad?!

I was wondering when someone was point to point that out.....
post #138 of 231
And again another rumour thread goes wild on speculation and hearsay.

How about instead of all these experts in this thread going on about 720this or 1080 that, why don't we wait until we have some more solid proof?

And for those that are saying stupid crap like "thats it, unless they release it as 1080p im boycotting Apple products", my response is so long and don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.

Lets wait until we get some more sources for these rumours before we jump to conclusions. Because so far it seems to just be Engadget's Apple link bait.
post #139 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

The only time the average viewer will even come across 1080p or 1080i material is if they buy a BluRay disc of a recent movie and have a very good player and the latest TV.

Or over the air like I do in the kitchen. I have the Viewsonic 23" full 1080 and the quality OTA is amazing. I like the picture quality maybe even better than my 52" Sony on cable.

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post #140 of 231
If true, that means hulu plus, safari, netflix, pandora, tunein radio, and a few other cool apps will finally come to the apple tv without having to hack the device.

That's a plus.
post #141 of 231
It's all rumor (and it's been going on for a long time). However, if it proves to be correct, and a new "iTV" device lacks 1080p output/playback it would be a failed product level mistake. I would be incredibly disappointed in Apple for building such a disaster, and it would definitely not make it to my 'to buy' list.
post #142 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by sippincider View Post

Whatever Apple does with their TV thing, all I ask is they (1) make the networking "just work", and (2) get iTunes sync working again.

<rant>
Apple, please. AppleTV networking has earned a special place in computing hell, not far from Windows ME. Good thing AppleTV has been a "hobby" because it would've been a disaster in the mainstream. Apple, if you can't make it "just work" then kill it. If I wanted headaches I'd buy from Microsoft.
</rant>

All better, thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorotea View Post

No networking issues here. And it is used daily for music and video.

Ditto! The AppleTV syncs fine-- we have 7 Macs and no content on our AppleTV. Everything syncs/streams from a Media Library on a Mini. Once every 3 months, or so, the Mini, AirPort Extreme or AppleTV needs reboot-- but considering the stuff that's going on, number of updates, etc. it is quite acceptable.

.
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post #143 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by yensid98 View Post

I'm sure that solution would work fine. It does today with the Apple TV but the trouble is as successful as these devices not everyone who would buy an iTV would have an iPad, iPod Touch or iPhone. If Apple is going this route they definitely needs to create a remote that ships with the iTV so that everyone has the same access and interface.

yes, Apple may continue its current ATV remote with the option for iTV to run in the current "classic" ATV mode with it. but pairing it with all the other iOS devices for new apps/features would be a great business strategy. current iOS device owners would be much more likely to buy an iTV. and many people would want to buy both.
post #144 of 231
Games for iTV with an iPod Touch, or iPhone, or iPad used as controllers. Could compete with the Playstation, Xbox, and Wii.

It'll be interesting to know what apps developers could come up for iTV.
post #145 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

4A) Rentals. Apple's trying to compete with cable Video on demand when the industry norm now is kiosks. Do you really expect anyone to ditch their DVD or Blu-Ray player when Red Box and the like are charging $1 for 24hr DVD rentals and $1.50 for Blu-Ray when Apple's charging $4 for SD and $5 for HD? Movie rentals are not a Macbook. Users aren't going to pay twice as much here for the Apple logo.

When you factor in the cost of making 2 trips, gas, late return charges, and the inconvenience of must watch or additional charges-- the cost of on-demand when you are ready to watch is quite competitive!

.
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post #146 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by techno View Post

Look for AppleTV, now iTV to be physically integrated with TV's.

you might be right. Apple could finally "partner" with selected TV OEM's to build iTV into the set. with a FaceTime camera too. who doesn't Apple compete with? maybe Panasonic ...
post #147 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

ITV is not copyrighted in the United States. sorry.

Not it's not. You're right. But it is a registered trademark

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield...003:otadfk.2.1

It's not in the same category but it's arguable that it's apt to confuse.

and what about this one:

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield...03:otadfk.2.17

Monster owns the trademark in respect of:

"Multimedia entertainment and network device for recording, archiving, playback, streaming, broadcasting, and controlling all forms of media, namely, digital entertainment system for watching, storing, and sharing digital content on a computer network; electrical controllers for security, lighting, heating, air conditioning, appliances, phones, and irrigation; electrical power conditioners, amplifiers, voltage stabilizers, current stabilizers, electrical surge protectors"
post #148 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Fix View Post

dropping 1080p goes against Apple's philosophy of providing newer, better technologies.

plus, the people that would want an iTV are people with extra money and those people have larger screens and would appreciate the higher quality.

Apple again, driving towards the low end.


Yeah.. but then again Apple hasn't adopted BluRay either and it's past being newer. Apple is starting to release crap when it comes to home entertainment. They simply don't get it.
post #149 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by webraider View Post

Yeah.. but then again Apple hasn't adopted BluRay either and it's past being newer. Apple is starting to release crap when it comes to home entertainment. They simply don't get it.




Sorry to jump on you, but to my knowledge, the AppleTV is the ONLY home entertainment device(if you don't include iPod) That Apple has made.

If you do include the iPod/iPhone, please explain to me how Apple "doesn't get it". It seems to me that their income/market-share prove just the opposite. Maybe it's the hardcore audio/video-philes who don't get it. Sorry but you're not the majority. If you don't like it, buy something else that's not a $99 device.
post #150 of 231
Dropping 1080p seems like a mistake to me.
post #151 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

When you factor in the cost of making 2 trips, gas, late return charges, and the inconvenience of must watch or additional charges-- the cost of on-demand when you are ready to watch is quite competitive!

.

My local video store is a 8 minute return walk, I would far rather go for the walk and get quality product than watch the poor quality downloads.
post #152 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

My local video store is a 8 minute return walk, I would far rather go for the walk and get quality product than watch the poor quality downloads.

At least we can all agree on you going for a walk.
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post #153 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

As for 1080p most consumers can't even tell the difference between 720p, 1080p and an upscaled DVD.

As it is now only small percentage of HDTV owners have 1080p. And even if Apple were to sell 1080p it wouldn't be true 1080p like Blu-Ray because of the massive size of the files.

I can tell the difference between 720p and 1080p using my 56" LED DLP TV ($1,400 3 years ago) from about 12 feet. Even when 720p signals are upconverted to 1080p, I can still notice a fairly distinct difference compared to native 1080p. Detail in hair, clothes, fabric patterns, facial details and certainly high-contrast text. However, I will say that I'd happily buy iTunes 720p videos with Apple TV's upconversion to 1080p -- somehow it looks excellent. iTV limited to 720 would be a problem that likely would prevent me from buying.

Upconverted DVDs? I have an HD-DVD, BluRay and a Toshiba upconverting DVD player all with 1080p upconversion and they all look worse than a native 720p signal and garbage next to 1080p.

I don't have official statistics, but it seems to me that most HDTVs sold today, particularly above 40", support 1080i/p. Sure, there are exceptions, but thinking about my 9 neighbors not one has a 720p set (all 1080). LOL, one has a 1080p 32" set in the den -- OMG that looks fantastic.
post #154 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by webraider View Post

Yeah.. but then again Apple hasn't adopted BluRay either and it's past being newer. Apple is starting to release crap when it comes to home entertainment. They simply don't get it.

Blu-ray is the best option available for watching movies at home on a big screen. That doesn't mean another optical standard makes sense for a PC, especially Apple's PCs which mostly use 9.5mm drives that cost $500+ for the upgrade according to Dell, HP and Sony's site last time I checked.

But that isn't the first issue that needs tackling. That goes to Apple's lack of interest in adding AACS to Mac OS X so you actually play protected Blu-ray movies. If they aren't even offering that software upgrade for AACS then it's pointless to for anyone to even consider BRDs from Apple.

As for the AppleTV, I don't want to have two Blu-ray players on my HDTV or a really expensive AppleTV just to get the network streaking capabilities. Ir would be waste as many now have BRD players at home and would hurt overall sales if that was the only option.

The fact of the matter is Apple is eliminating optical drives. They are slow, noisy, take up a lot space, have a lot of moving parts, use a lot of power and hold very little data for the size the drive take up. For a home theater it's great, and will be around a long time as the last optical media solution for consumers, but it's not the direction Apple is moving in.
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post #155 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

At least we can all agree on you going for a walk.

Wow, how long did it take you to think of that?
post #156 of 231
I'm not buying: this rumor.

There is nothing wrong with "Whatever-TV" to be able to playback both 720p for streaming, and 1080p for native content, whether internal, external drive or LAN.

Over the weekend I installed for my buddy's B-Day a small media hub like the WDLive (actually an Ellion Labo 110), a device smaller than a Mac Mini for 118,-EUR. The thing plays damn near everything you can throw at it (incl. 1080p!), through USB Stick, SD card, Network/LAN, USB Hard drive, even his Sony camera... everything.

To say the least, I/we are quite happy with this device. The funny thing about it, was that it got me to thinking about the iPad, of which I'm a huge fan, and why it doesn't have a usable USB file/document navigation. The Labo's navigation was easy, forthright, and if it came across a doc it couldn't read, it said so. No big deal.

In this sense, I guess I have to put myself on the side of the "wish-listers" for USB/SDcard on the next iPad, which I think will be seriously interesting to see how it will eventually integrate with the "Whatever-TV".

PS: "Whatever-TV" = I could care less what they call it, it should just work and help send my AAPL stock to the stratosphere
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post #157 of 231
So the Retina display was not just a nice phone feature - it's secret double purpose was to get developers converting their apps to TV resolution without knowing it.

I have a television but it has only been on twice in the last year. Mostly I watch TV shows on my Mac, so I hope whatever advances they come up with here get ported to the Mac.
post #158 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

The 1080P limitation may not be a limitation of the iTV box itself-- rather a limitation of the source from which the iTV is streaming.

I just looked at NetFlix streaming to my iMac 20, and my iPad-- the picture quality is great on both.

I have heard that to notice a difference between 720P and 1080P you need a screen over 50".

Our largest screen is 46" in the family room. We have 27" TVs in 2 of the bedrooms and ATT U-verse.


We also have 2 iPads.

We don't buy anything from U-verse-- just basic Internet and TV.


When NetFlix comes to iTV, I suspect we will buy 3 additional iPads so each family member has one.

The iPad is an excellent device when used as a personal TV.

We have a Mac Mini (2 2-TereByte External Drives) setup as a media server: Ripped DVDs, Ripped CDs, Photos; Home Movies, Podcasts. We can stream these to the AppleTV through iTunes. Also we can stream these to the iPads with StreamToMe.

When NetFlix comes to the iTV, we can cut back on buying and ripping DVDs to store locally-- as NetFlix fleshes out their streaming catalog, it makes more sense to stream most things. Likely, we will always have some ripped DVDs as some of titles will never come to NetFlix-- Old TV series like: Two Fat Ladies, Fractured Flickers, etc.


Last evening I was at a long soccer practice (almost 3 hours). I took my iPad 3G, and over 3G was able to watch:

1) A liveCast over Stickam-- a friend is a singer composer and has a live show every Tuesday
2) part of a NetFlix movie
3) some short (5 min or less) home movies over remote StreamToMe.

Everything worked without a hitch-- that's using the (supposedly) crummy AT&T 3G service in the East San Francisco Bay area.


So, this idea of "anything you want to watch-- wherever, whenever" is becoming practical on a personal device. You can take it with you, and it dutifully resumes where you were-- regardless that others are "viewing their own thing" at the same time.


I also see great potential for games on the iTV with satellite iPads, iPhones and iPod touches.

Say, you have Scrabble: Monopoly: Clue; Yahtzee-- where the main board is on the big screen, and each player has his own device to play his turn.

MultiPlayer action games ala Wii, should be Fun and inexpensive.

.

So basically what you're trying to say is you live in fan boy heaven....?


Get over it everyone.... 1080 is better than 720 and as far as we know apple is not going to provide the best format.... Typical apple. My xbox already does all this, better than an iTV will.
post #159 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by pt123 View Post

It wouldn't be the first time Apple copied another product's name.

This isn't a 'product' it's the second largest broadcaster in the UK after the BBC, with four channels under the ITV umbrella. No way the ITV name would be allowed in the UK.
post #160 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjw View Post

So basically what you're trying to say is you live in fan boy heaven....?


Get over it everyone.... 1080 is better than 720 and as far as we know apple is not going to provide the best format.... Typical apple. My xbox already does all this, better than an iTV will.

Why are you here??
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