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Report: Next Apple TV to be renamed iTV, drop 1080p - Page 5

post #161 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by salmonstk View Post

maybe they will pitch this as being much more internet focused with streaming and such. hence go back to iTV

No, no, no!! The reason Jobs tripped over the name so frequently at the Apple TV announcement was that HE wanted it to be called iTV, Apple had assumed it could get the trademark, but had been absolutely blasted out of the water by a 50 year old trademark held by a TV broadcaster in the UK. There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY ITV are going to roll over and allow Apple to steal their trademark. NO WAY! There are 4 ITV channels now, so it's not like they are a bit player. Apple obviously changed the name at the 11th hour, else Jobs would have never tripped over the name so many times. Apple is not known for using multiple names in different regions, not in recent times.


The CDMA iPhone is more likely to happen than this name change!!
post #162 of 231
Apple don't do that, Apple go for consistant naming schemes, else they would have already called it iTV outside of the UK. Case in point: Blockbuster video. In the UK there was a long established chain of Video stores called "Blockbusters" and Blockbuster Video had a 5 year long court battle to claim the name. At the end of the day, the big company crushed the little guy. Is Apple bigger than the UK? I think not.
post #163 of 231
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post #164 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by MandrakeTheMagician View Post

Most consumers can't even tell the difference between 720p, 1080p and upscaled DVD ???????

Are you kidding ??? Just open your eyes ....

The difference between 720p and 1080p is just HUGE !!!!!!!!!!!!

Hardly. On my 52" HDTV I see no difference. People who want to shuffle around 12gig+ files on the internet are just creating problems for everyone. 720p allows for a great picture and a reasonable size. Just replace your 70" set with a smaller one or sit further back...



philip
post #165 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm View Post

This isn't a 'product' it's the second largest broadcaster in the UK after the BBC, with four channels under the ITV umbrella. No way the ITV name would be allowed in the UK.

Never mind that itv.com, itv.co.uk and itv.eu are all registered to ITV in UK.
post #166 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

I hope it comes out at the September iPod event. This will let me get rid of my cable box and just get the Netflix and Hulu Plus apps. I wouldn't be surprised to see the networks go all out in trying to make content available for this device through apps.

Ndont see how. They can say 1080p. I've seen samung 1080p that is simply stunning and once in s while you can get the newer ones for $1400 at frys. Blue is 100 times more amazing. I think netflix, boxee and especially built in DVRs are going to kill off apple tv. People want shows that are free to be free not charge for them and some of the snip commecials has come a long way.

My .03 cents.
post #167 of 231
All this talk about resolution is fine but in my opinion joe public won't be able to tell the difference.

I am in the UK and there will definitely be issues with using iTV due to the established TV channels.

My biggest concern would be the dropping of the hard drive. I bought my Apple TV to access my photos etc that were previously confined to the hard drive of my computer. How am I going to access them without a hard drive ?!?. I don't want to stream from my iMac as it's not on all the time and I don't want to get in to holding photos on my Time Machine/external hard drive either.

Big mistake to drop the drive if that's the route Apple take.

They also need to be aware that in the UK a lot of people get very small bandwidth due to the old BT network being used for the internet so streaming video is going to be impossible for a lot of people. I am lucky enough to have cable broadband and get excellent bandwidth but that's the exception in the UK at the moment.

I love my Apple TV so looking forward to a long overdue upgrade, just hope it's not a backwards step !
post #168 of 231
Makes me wonder how a usually innovative company, could make such a stupid decision. 720p/1080p is general knowledge at this point, everyone shopping for a TV knows what it is. While I agree at smaller TV sizes (40" and under) the difference can be more difficult to discern. At the larger sizes it becomes easily noticeable despite what some people would claim. Considering the fact that the first thing my mother would ask (who knows almost nothing about electronics) the sales man is "is this TV 1080p?". Apple is going to have a very hard time convincing a society that's so focused on 1080p at this point, that 720p is just fine.

Those people aside, you have the Home Theater nuts on places like AVSforum.com... who will also probably for the most part reject this device. Those guys will opt for a WDTV Live or similar streaming device that not only supports 1080p, but will also be most likely cheaper.

I don't even want to get started on how the pay per movie is a dying breed all together. People would rather use the Netflix model, where you pay a premium per month to stream whatever you want in HD. Granted Netflix isn't there yet... but they've already started rolling out Streaming HD content. Eventually all your rentals will be HD streaming, the mail to you discs will no longer exist.

If Apple wants to be innovative with this one, as they've been with some of their other products. They have a long way to go and a lot to learn.
post #169 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenfeet View Post

Actually, just about every HDTV sold in the last 3 years has been 1080p. As the number of HDTVs begins to accelerate, nearly all of those purchases are 1080p sets.

Looking at Best Buy's website, I selected all Flat Panel TVs. Fully 1/4 of all TVs they sell are 720p, so I really doubt your claim of all TVs sold in the last 3 years are 1080p. Hell, I replaced a TV a year ago and it's 720p. That alone shoots your theory.

The internet bandwidth required to stream 1080p is massive, much greater than most people actually have. 720 is much more doable and it makes sense from this viewpoint. Again, Apple is not selling to the videophiles, Apple is making an everyman device and they will make a killing.
post #170 of 231
The only thing I notice when watching a 1080p signal are the compression artifacts. 720 is fine.
post #171 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I use both in my office and I can unequivocally say that W7 is pathetic. Its only saving grace is that it uses less space than XP.

Oh come come, you have to at least back up your irrational fanboy anti-Windows rage somehow! Did Bill Gates eat your first born or something?
post #172 of 231
One more thing...AppleTV never supported 1080p, so, how could it 'drop' it?
post #173 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by MandrakeTheMagician View Post

... all your considerations about 1080p are untrue.

In Europe we have NOTHING coming in 720p. Everything is in 1080p.
The only videos we could get in 720p come from the US.

Untrue, as far as I know. Everything transmitted to the home by air, cable or satellite (ie with only BD as an exception) is 1080i (not p) which makes a hell of a difference. The i=interlaced (ie only 25/30 1080 frames a second instead of 50/60 in the p formats) saves 50% of the bandwith and is more similar to the old SD formats. Uncompressed, the pixels per frame are:

1080p: 2,073,600
720p: 921,600
1080i: 1,036,800

Obviously, 720p is close to 1080i and neither resolution nor bandwith considerations should matter. 1080p is a different beast however, and I guess without compression that makes it useless it cannot be streamed though ordinary cable / DSL homes.

On the other hand, 720 is not common either: Only in Germany, the public broadcast stations (ARD, ZDF, third programs) were sold on 720p (again, not 1080p!) but have admitted defeat this summer and are now turning to 1080i (not p!).

If I had a choice, I would get rid of all interlaced formats ASAP because they are cause to endless troubles when viewed on progressive devices (such as any modern computer screen / TV set).
post #174 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

video experts note that the difference in resolution is not visible to users at a normal TV viewing distance unless the screen is larger than 55 inches.

Yup. this is very scientific. if you have "normal" eyesight and are sitting at a "normal" viewing distance, 55" screens are required to see the difference between 720p and 1080p. Here's some real numbers [and an actual REFERENCE link]

Assuming you have perfect 20/20 vision, if you sit less than 10 feet away from a 55" 1080p signal, the video quality STARTS to appear better than that of a 55" 720p signal.
http://carltonbale.com/home-theater/...ter-calculator

anyways, if you don't like the RUMORED 720p limit of this RUMORED new device, wait for iTV2.
post #175 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by ihxo View Post

probably hard to do full 1080p with the iDevice spec. Also if it's going full streaming bandwidth is going to be a problem.

I just hope that they won't drop support for the old Apple TV.

I'd be surprised if the A4 couldn't handle 1080p movies. Personally I think that with home movies at 1080i and iMovie handling that - it needs to be able to accept 1080i/p without forcing users to recompress the whole movie in iMovie.

Anyway, as others have said, streaming 1080p is a real jump in bandwidth. Perhaps 720p restriction really refers to this.

The bigger problem (perhaps) is that handling graphics-intensive games at 720p is much easier than 1080p. So Apple could be better restricting games to 720p to get fluid movement, no stuttering or other issues.

Would apple create an iTV that plays 720p games then switches to 1080 when playing a movie? They won't want to make a TV flicker as it changes modes, though set top boxes do that pretty frequently. Or perhaps, like the current AppleTV, 720p content could be outputted in 1080i?
post #176 of 231
Why stop at 720p? Let's go for 576i!

"Apple, bringing back computing to the age of tube TV's!"
post #177 of 231
Then, there's always http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...=4k+video&aq=1 to look forward to (if your Mac can take the heat). My MP with an Nvidia 285 plays very nice.
post #178 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Eggleston View Post

You know, there is one major part of this that isn't being talked about. That is FaceTime. Imagine being able to start or receive a FaceTime call from somebody, on your TV. All they would have to do is integrate a camera into the new AppleTV (or iTV, or bananaTV, or whatever). Those cameras are getting pathetically cheap, especially for this kind of thing. It would also be very Apple-like to include something like that into something that no one thought of before.

dare to dream, my man. dare to dream. These days apple only does the obvious stuff. that doesn't seem very obvious at all. \
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post #179 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by desarc View Post

Yup. this is very scientific. if you have "normal" eyesight and are sitting at a "normal" viewing distance, 55" screens are required to see the difference between 720p and 1080p. Here's some real numbers [and an actual REFERENCE link]

Assuming you have perfect 20/20 vision, if you sit less than 10 feet away from a 55" 1080p signal, the video quality STARTS to appear better than that of a 55" 720p signal.
http://carltonbale.com/home-theater/...ter-calculator

anyways, if you don't like the RUMORED 720p limit of this RUMORED new device, wait for iTV2.

i have a 65". This effects me.
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post #180 of 231
Did anyone think it odd that the Netflix CEO was on stage at the last Mac event ????? I think Apple will announce the iTv along with the fact that that they are buying Netflix - not a subscription but the whole company .Also, I find it odd that you can stream unlimited Netflix videos to the iPad while you cannot do this with iTunes,and I think this is cutting into their iTunes movie rental business.
The Netflix business model also validates that many people still like to have a physical DVD to use instead of being tethered to the internet and want to watch movies on their large screens at home.
I think that with the acquisition of Netflix they will acquire an established user base (subscriptions) and technical infrastructure to send/receive physical DVDs and they could incorporate the instant downloads into iTunes. That would catapult the iTV to the top of the list as an online media box. This would also allow Apple to generate revenue from all the upcoming Android based set top boxes and tablets set to explode next year.
post #181 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by euan View Post

I bought my Apple TV to access my photos etc that were previously confined to the hard drive of my computer. How am I going to access them without a hard drive ?!?. I don't want to stream from my iMac as it's not on all the time and I don't want to get in to holding photos on my Time Machine/external hard drive either.

I bought an aTV for exactly these reasons too, and I recall that back in 2006 (before the aTV first came out) this aspect was the focus of some debate in the rumour mill. I would hope that Apple does not make the device totally dependant on local streaming that there is at least an option to attach a USB drive and use this for local storage.

If Apple doesnt do this out of the box, I guess that someone would release a liberating hack, providing of course that the device has a USB port....
post #182 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by webraider View Post

Yeah.. but then again Apple hasn't adopted BluRay either and it's past being newer. Apple is starting to release crap when it comes to home entertainment. They simply don't get it.

Yeah... The iPad is total crap, and has absolutely no use as a home entertainment device-- except as the best (only) in class personal TV, mobile video, music, game player, etc.

...you get the drill!

.
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post #183 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by realmike15 View Post

...Apple is going to have a very hard time convincing a society that's so focused on 1080p at this point, that 720p is just fine.

You nailed it right on the head. It's really not about whether or not the average consumer can see the difference between 720p and 1080p on a 55" screen at 10'. It's going to be about trying to sell them on 720p when all they've been told the last few years is that 1080p was the way to go.
post #184 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by gordy View Post

One more thing...AppleTV never supported 1080p, so, how could it 'drop' it?

My AppleTV has a setting for 1080p. No 1080p content, but it's got the setting for it.
post #185 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

You are among a tiny, tiny minority who might benefit a slight amount form 1080p. But the normal consumer, of which there are millions, cannot see any difference and does not really care about crazy numbers.

That's completely incorrect, and totally off the top of your head. According to NAB, 1080p sets comprise more than 82% of all HDTV sets sold, and out-sell 720p sets 14-1. That's a big ratio.

The number of new 720p units available for sale is dwindling. Some manufacturers such as Sanyo and Sony plan to discontinue their 720p products. Others will follow suit.

All the top rated HDTVs are 1080p.

Use 720p when you want something dirt cheap, or you're doing transcoding for mobile or upconverting from SD. Taking an old VHS tape or anything at 640x480 or SD PAL sizes up to 1080p doesn't buy you anything and will most likely look better at lower resolutions anyway. If this "rumor" is accurate, then Apple chose 720p because their iOS devices can't swallow 1080p. They just don't have the screen resolution and probably not the computing power. The iPad's top resolution is 1024x768.

People now know these numbers, they are part of the American lexicon. Why? Because it's TV and Americans love their TV. They may not know the reasons behind the numbers but they know 1080p is king and they know 720p is the budget brand.

It is foolish to do some simple hand waving and declare it's unimportant when in fact it is the single most important marketing feature in high definition.
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post #186 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

People now know these numbers, they are part of the American lexicon. Why? Because it's TV and Americans love their TV. They may not know the reasons behind the numbers but they know 1080p is king and they know 720p is the budget brand.

It is foolish to do some simple hand waving and declare it's unimportant when in fact it is the single most important marketing feature in high definition.

This is the point that many seem to be overlooking.
post #187 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by gordy View Post

One more thing...AppleTV never supported 1080p, so, how could it 'drop' it?

Good question.

Apple TV supports .m4v, .mp4 and .mov files at 1280 by 720 pixels at 24 fps, 960 by 540 pixels at 30 fps. In this regard, it only supports 720p.

However, it can up-convert the signal to 1080i.
- in the ATV settings it has a menu option to output at several resolutions, 1080i being one.
- my television shows 1920x1080 when it syncs with the ATV signal.
- iTunes HD purchases look surprisingly good, in some cases even better than the supposed 1080p programs on cable. Call my crazy but the 1080 upconversion seems better than my HD cable DVR.

So, Apple TV supports outputting at 1080i but only supports sources at 720p. If it maintains this, I'm OK with it (even though I'd like it to at least support 1080p for my own sources if not iTunes purchases) -- I'm a bandwidth conservationist!

But if Apple drops the upconversion, THAT will be a problem for me. I'd have to go home and experiment to refresh my memory, but I did test the 720p native vs 1080i upconverted on Apple TV and it really did seem to make a difference on my 56" set from a distance of about 10 feet (we're in a bigger house now, about 12 feet back).
post #188 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

I'm not buying: this rumor.

There is nothing wrong with "Whatever-TV" to be able to playback both 720p for streaming, and 1080p for native content, whether internal, external drive or LAN.

Over the weekend I installed for my buddy's B-Day a small media hub like the WDLive (actually an Ellion Labo 110), a device smaller than a Mac Mini for 118,-EUR. The thing plays damn near everything you can throw at it (incl. 1080p!), through USB Stick, SD card, Network/LAN, USB Hard drive, even his Sony camera... everything.

To say the least, I/we are quite happy with this device. The funny thing about it, was that it got me to thinking about the iPad, of which I'm a huge fan, and why it doesn't have a usable USB file/document navigation. The Labo's navigation was easy, forthright, and if it came across a doc it couldn't read, it said so. No big deal.

In this sense, I guess I have to put myself on the side of the "wish-listers" for USB/SDcard on the next iPad, which I think will be seriously interesting to see how it will eventually integrate with the "Whatever-TV".

PS: "Whatever-TV" = I could care less what they call it, it should just work and help send my AAPL stock to the stratosphere

Through the $29 CCC (Camera Connection Kit) you get both USB and SD card access-- though for designated use only. I would rather see Apple do it this way than add a SD slot and USB slot to every iPad-- it helps keep the price low, the profits high and fewer holes in the iPad case (to catch cruft and water).

Said another way: I prefer the price of the iPad to be $499 than $529-- let the people who want/need the capability pay extra for it.

I do wish they allowed more general use on the card or USB port though-- maybe there will be some "made for iPad" devices in the future.

That said, the iPad is a mobile device with a long battery life-- it is antithetical to the iPad's design and purposed use to be trussed up with dongles and cables.

.
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post #189 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjw View Post

So basically what you're trying to say is you live in fan boy heaven....?


Get over it everyone.... 1080 is better than 720 and as far as we know apple is not going to provide the best format.... Typical apple. My xbox already does all this, better than an iTV will.

Actually, no-- I live in the real world! You?

I am a realist-- I never got to date the Prom Queen either (though a Rose Bowl Queen had a crush on me in High School).

This is a rumor:

-- we don't know if there ia an AppleTV upgrade/replacement coming soon
-- we don't know the specs of this rumored device, if/when it comes

Apple could easily (and might just well) enable the device to output 1080P-- as others have posted there are several hardware iOS alternatives that can handle 1080P.

But, then, the majority of people would not have the bandwidth to access streamed 1080P nor the devices to deliver 1080P to Apple WhateverTV box.

So then you techlitists would bitch that Apple is charging us for 1080P when it can't deliver it...


As a realist, I look at an offering: see if I can make use of it; buy it, or not... then move on-- rather that agonizing over "why didn't they" "why couldn't they".

Best stated:

All the Woulda-Coulda-Shouldas
Layin' in the sun,
Talkin' 'bout the things
They woulda coulda shoulda done...

But those Woulda-Coulda-Shouldas
All ran away and hid
From one little Did.

-Shel Silverstein-


.
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post #190 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philotech View Post

Untrue, as far as I know. Everything transmitted to the home by air, cable or satellite (ie with only BD as an exception) is 1080i (not p) which makes a hell of a difference. The i=interlaced (ie only 25/30 1080 frames a second instead of 50/60 in the p formats) saves 50% of the bandwith and is more similar to the old SD formats. Uncompressed, the pixels per frame are:

1080p: 2,073,600
720p: 921,600
1080i: 1,036,800

Obviously, 720p is close to 1080i and neither resolution nor bandwith considerations should matter. 1080p is a different beast however, and I guess without compression that makes it useless it cannot be streamed though ordinary cable / DSL homes.

On the other hand, 720 is not common either: Only in Germany, the public broadcast stations (ARD, ZDF, third programs) were sold on 720p (again, not 1080p!) but have admitted defeat this summer and are now turning to 1080i (not p!).

If I had a choice, I would get rid of all interlaced formats ASAP because they are cause to endless troubles when viewed on progressive devices (such as any modern computer screen / TV set).

Please don't inject common sense into this thread-- it will only confuse the issue.

.
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post #191 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by iVlad View Post

Too much iNames! This is getting very old. Apple TV sounds very nice.

Yeah, okay iVLAD...
post #192 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by desarc View Post

Yup. this is very scientific. if you have "normal" eyesight and are sitting at a "normal" viewing distance, 55" screens are required to see the difference between 720p and 1080p. Here's some real numbers [and an actual REFERENCE link]

Assuming you have perfect 20/20 vision, if you sit less than 10 feet away from a 55" 1080p signal, the video quality STARTS to appear better than that of a 55" 720p signal.
http://carltonbale.com/home-theater/...ter-calculator

anyways, if you don't like the RUMORED 720p limit of this RUMORED new device, wait for iTV2.

You didn't read the table correctly. Recommended viewing distance is always under the 720p viewing threshold, regardless of the screen size.

The moral of the story is - if you want to use recommended viewing distances, you need 1080p.
post #193 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by gertrude_perkins View Post

Never mind that itv.com, itv.co.uk and itv.eu are all registered to ITV in UK.

I don't think that will matter too much given that iphone.com, ipad.com etc don't point to Apple websites
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post #194 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by gordy View Post

The only thing I notice when watching a 1080p signal are the compression artifacts. 720 is fine.

I can tell the difference between 1920x1080 and 1280x720 resolutions. Try it on your desktop computer sometime

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post #195 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by MandrakeTheMagician View Post

Most consumers can't even tell the difference between 720p, 1080p and upscaled DVD ???????

Are you kidding ??? Just open your eyes ....

The difference between 720p and 1080p is just HUGE !!!!!!!!!!!!

Not really. On my 42" probably wouldn't be noticable The difference between 1080p and an upscaled DVD is a bit more noticable, but not by much. I would say an upscaled DVD is pretty close to on par with Broadcast HD.
post #196 of 231
Everyone who is going on and on about whether Apple will support 1080p in a new box is arguing about whether it matters or not--but no one is considering the competition: The WD TV Live (Plus), the upcoming Boxee Box, and the upcoming Google device.

I have a WD TV Live ($99) that streams 1080p very well. I have a WD TV Live Plus ($119) that also streams Netflix. Neither of these boxes let you buy content online or run apps--but they do what they do very well and relatively inexpensively.

In order to make an impression, Apple has to do better than these.

Apple may be willing to break even on stripped-down hardware for $99 in order to make more strides in the market--hoping they'll make it up by selling apps/video--but that seems unlike their way of doing things. It seems more likely that they'll go for a $149 or $199 price point and deliver a much better product.
post #197 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenfeet View Post

Actually, just about every HDTV sold in the last 3 years has been 1080p. As the number of HDTVs begins to accelerate, nearly all of those purchases are 1080p sets.

Consumers can tell an upscaled DVD from an HDTV broadcast if presented side by side. 720p vs. 1080p is harder but as a videophile, i want the option for 1080p. And Blu-Ray 720p recordings are almost unheard of when you can just do 1080p. I am concerned about 720p only output though since my classic Mitsubishi 65" RPTV CRT HDTV doesn't do 720p input (except from broadcast TV). It would be crushing to have to buy a cheap scaler which would still cost more than the iTV.

Otherwise, it sounds like the product I've been waiting for, especially since the current AppleTV has been lying fallow for so long. A $99 price tag if delivered is almost an impluse buy. It will allow me to finish ripping my DVD library to m4v files and just present them on a menu-based system streamed from my central server (and keep my kids from handling DVD media).

Not to mention that when HD 3D takes off it is required to have 1080p. Or it just doesn't work.
post #198 of 231
I don't see the logic of this entire thread. The AppleTV has never supported 1080p. Ever. Not when it first came out. Not after any release. Not now. It is, and always has been, a 720p only device. It can "output" 1080i (not p) but only by side-converting 720p material.

So how are they "dropping" 1080p, since they never supported it to begin with? The worst you can say is "new AppleTV remains at 720p, same as always".

This has nothing to do with whether 1080p or 720p is better or worse (of course 1080p is better, btw). Instead, it's just an inaccurate headline. AppleTV doesn't support 1080p now, and never has.
post #199 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by MandrakeTheMagician View Post

Most consumers can't even tell the difference between 720p, 1080p and upscaled DVD ???????

Are you kidding ??? Just open your eyes ....

The difference between 720p and 1080p is just HUGE !!!!!!!!!!!!

Absolutely agreed. As others have stated, it is a big mistake IMO not to support 1080p. Jobs doesn't want to support Blu-ray so a way around that is to support Blu-ray quality. It must support 1080p.

Those who watch TV on portable devices don't need AppleTV (or iTV). But those who watch at home on flat panels are moving towards larger and larger screens (except for apartment dwellers in large cities.)

In fact, if Apple wants to be perceived as the advanced company that it once was AND if they want to try and kill off Blu-ray, they should support 2160p and convince the studios to provide content in that format (although it might take many hours to download a movie in that format.)
post #200 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonhen View Post

I don't see the logic of this entire thread. The AppleTV has never supported 1080p.<blah blah blah>.

Wow dude. Do you read the comments?
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