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Report: Next Apple TV to be renamed iTV, drop 1080p - Page 3

post #81 of 231
Assuming this rumor is correct, I consider the omission of 1080p to be a mistake. I want to connect it to a projector using an Elite Screen @ 108x144. Surely I can't be the only one.
post #82 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Agreed.

People are forgetting also that most HD content is highly compressed. Most HD channels on TV are not even 720p or they are double letter-boxed 720p which is even worse than regular broadcast quality. The only time the average viewer will even come across 1080p or 1080i material is if they buy a BluRay disc of a recent movie and have a very good player and the latest TV.

True 720p, uncompressed looks fantastic and most people will be happy with that if it turns out to be the case.

Yes most everything consumers watch on TV is compressed - DVD, Blu-ray, AppleTV, broadcast TV, cable. If it is MPEG (MPEG-2, MPEG-4), it is compressed. But compression does not preclude it from being 720p or 1080i. The average viewer comes across 1080i when they watch CBS or PBS. And no latest TV required, HDTV have been around for years.
post #83 of 231
ABC and FOX standardized on 720p. Why not Apple? I don't see what is the big deal, and as others have said, 1080p requires too much bandwidth or compression.
post #84 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

1080i and 1080p are two very different viewing experiences on a large TV. Don't conflate the two.

It was conflated by the person I was responding to with the reference to broadcast HD and 1080.
post #85 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by pt123 View Post

The 1080p isn't the biggest issue, it's the 5 Mbps max bit rate that sucks. It's ok for the low quality web video snippets, but I wouldn't pay for that. Not where there are better alternatives out there for a lower price.

So true. If Apple deigned to use good encoders and/or more high-end features of AVC, it could be decent, but not as it is now.
post #86 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by ihxo View Post

probably hard to do full 1080p with the iDevice spec. Also if it's going full streaming bandwidth is going to be a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Munchausen View Post

I suspect dropping 1080p was forced upon Apple due to new innards not hacking it robustly. If it is not suited to certain situations, why not have both options? Does not make sense, hence my suspicions.

It’s actually quite easy. Imagination has been making video decoders that can handle High-Profile 1080p for the most intense Blu-ray moving for some time. Note that Apple uses their tech in their iPhone, iPod Touch and iPad, as well as own a reported 3.6% of the company.

Remember, this will plugged in so a power source isn’t an issue like it would be on portable device.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gem View Post

Im sorry but I disagree that recent experience suggests Apple will be able to use the name iTV. The issue is that whilst the others are names which were no longer used, ITV is one of the 5 main TV stations in the UK and as it is a product effectively forming your own TV station I highly doubt they will allow usage of the name. There would be too much confusion for everyone in the UK who knows ITV as a TV station that has been around for decades, its like if they released a product called NBC. Its just a bit ridiculous.

You have a point about iTV being the new name, but Apple may be renaming the device. It’s what you do when you have a product that has a negative mindshare so it might behoove them to rename it from TV.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pats View Post

The A4 video encoder is based on the VXD 370 and Apple will not need to worry about power consumption so if they limit to 720p it is to reduce file size of the stream.
Quote:
PowerVR VXD 370 (previously known as "MSVDX") is a high definition, multi-standard video decode core. PowerVR VXD 370 is capable of decoding H.264, VC-1(WMV 9), DivX, MPEG-4, H.263, MPEG-2, MPEG-1, JPEG at resolutions including 720p, 1080i and 1080p. This multiple decoder support has been implemented in an extremely power efficient architecture. As an example, in a 90nm 133MHz implementation power consumption for the core is in the range of 30mW to <50mW for decoding high definition MPEG-2 main profile and high definition H.264 high profile.

Concludes King-Smith: "Because PowerVR VXD 370 is a highly optimised architecture, with a stream processor to analyse the incoming video bit-stream and reconfigure flexible multi-mode decode modules in the core accordingly, there are huge benefits in reducing silicon area and power consumption " particularly as a large proportion of the processing logic is common for the many video standards supported by the core."

PowerVR VXD 370 supports all HD resolutions and may be configured to support multiple stream decode allowing rich picture"in-picture options such as Electronic Programme Guide (EPG) grids of sub-videos for easy channel selection by the user.

Here is a direct link to Imagination’s video decoder products.

http://www.imgtec.net/powervr/powervr-vxd.asp
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Don't forget that online streaming will be from iTunes only, which does not offer 1080p anyways.

I do see that as a reason to limit the TV. Wasn’t the original TV released with 720p when iTunes Store had no HD content available. Even if it’s not available now, it will come eventually to the iTS.

Also, there are other 1080p sources on the internet, like YouTube, that is accessible from the current TV interface. There is also LAN streamed content. Apple probably won’t allow MKV containers which already tend to have H.264/AAC codecs for Blu-ray rips, but converting to a different container would make it playable.

1080p helps future proof the device, but more importantly, IMO, is the first step for being a contender in the Media Extender Appliance market that has shot forward since the original TV was released.
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post #87 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undo Redo View Post

ABC and FOX standardized on 720p. Why not Apple? I don't see what is the big deal, and as others have said, 1080p requires too much bandwidth or compression.

You Americans are so US centered, were happy enjoying our 50mb/s £17.99/month with 'cable tv', free weekend and evening calls package very much thankyou.
post #88 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by pt123 View Post

Yes most everything consumers watch on TV is compressed - DVD, Blu-ray, AppleTV, broadcast TV, cable. If it is MPEG (MPEG-2, MPEG-4), it is compressed. But compression does not preclude it from being 720p or 1080i. The average viewer comes across 1080i when they watch CBS or PBS. And no latest TV required, HDTV have been around for years.

As someone who has the new equipment and subscribes to HDTV, this is absolute BS and completely wrong.

The broadcast HD is so highly compressed it's of lower quality than the average upscaled DVD. anyone who thinks they are getting 1080p over the wire from CBS or PBS is dreaming or uninformed.
post #89 of 231
When Apple released the new Magic Track Pad, I thought the purpose might be to operate it with a new iOS based Apple TV.
post #90 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodshotrollin'red View Post

Yeah, just like fewer and fewer people can tell the difference between Mac OS X and Windows 7.

Apple now gets to unilaterally decide what is "good enough" for consumers. This is Microsoft through and through.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I use both in my office and I can unequivocally say that W7 is pathetic. Its only saving grace is that it uses less space than XP.

There you go... Either way you prove my point.

...
post #91 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Applecation View Post

When Apple released the new Magic Track Pad, I thought the purpose might be to operate it with a new iOS based Apple TV.

Ive seen that proposed a few times. I never understood how that would be easier or better than an iDevice with the remote control to quickly type in names or navigate quickly via other on-screen helpers. Or just a remote control. I just dont see trying to tap and swipe a touchpad makes much sense, especially knowing the touchpad requires a physical press of the front feet for tap.
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post #92 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by allblue View Post

...and there is the issue of ITV being the name of a TV channel in the UK since the 1950s...

Apple sez: "Here's a check, now be quiet for a while..."
post #93 of 231
That Wii-mote controller clone Apple filed for might come in handy running the iOS without touch.
post #94 of 231
I'll probably pick one up but not gonna use it for anything where quality AQ/PQ matter - stuff that I won't own or rent on Blu-ray. I enjoy TV series off iTunes. It's what I use the AppleTV for now. Would be great if it supported DLNA.

TV standards based on constraints from older codecs. I don't think comparisons are so easy between streamed or downloaded 720p H.323 or MPEG4 and the MPEG2 stuff that most cable providers are strapped to.

I don't see this device counting on the videophile or audiophile for a customer. All streamed content is garbage on the 65" or the 120" at my viewing distance. Not so much cause of the resolution but for the lack of color depth, macro blocking, missing detail & the less care taken in the encoding. This thing is for the people who buy content to watch on their computers who are also looking for a way to use it in the rest of their home.

-Chris
post #95 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by MandrakeTheMagician View Post

Most consumers can't even tell the difference between 720p, 1080p and upscaled DVD ???????

Are you kidding ??? Just open your eyes ....

The difference between 720p and 1080p is just HUGE !!!!!!!!!!!!

If steve Jobs says 720P is good enough then that's what you're gonna watch. Lord Jobs steers the entertainment business just like he steers the Internet.
post #96 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by palegolas View Post

That Wii-mote controller clone Apple filed for might come in handy running the iOS without touch.

I would say "+1" but there is a 5 character minimum..
post #97 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by AIaddict View Post

No 1080p takes it off my buy list and recomend list.

I can vouch for the 720 being fine for most consumers.

I actually bought both a 1080 and a 720 50" plasma and set them up against the same wall. I then sat back on my couch 12' away and I could not tell the difference in quality. I returned the 1080 to the store and the price difference of $500 to my pocket. Here is a chart to show the viewing distance compared to resolution....it should show.... compared to cost and compared to ego of saying you own a 1080 screen.
http://carltonbale.com/1080p-does-matter
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post #98 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

The broadcast HD is so highly compressed it's of lower quality than the average upscaled DVD.

Agreed. When I watch nightly news from too close, there is so much compression, Brian Williams looks like he has a mask on.
post #99 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

As someone who has the new equipment and subscribes to HDTV, this is absolute BS and completely wrong.

The broadcast HD is so highly compressed it's of lower quality than the average upscaled DVD. anyone who thinks they are getting 1080p over the wire from CBS or PBS is dreaming or uninformed.

Actually, you subscribe to HD programming, not HDTV. And if people think they are getting 1080p they are dreaming or uninformed as it is 1080i (as in the letter after "h" and before "j"). And if your HD channels are lower quality than upscaled DVD, time to call you cable company and get that fixed.
post #100 of 231
Look for AppleTV, now iTV to be physically integrated with TV's.

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post #101 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

People with extra money are better off with a Mac Mini now that it has HDMI output. For iTV to be a consumer device Apple needs to lower the price below the current AppleTV $229 price. They need to go down as low as $149 and maybe $99, which means stripping the device to bare minimum.

Yes you're correct, as I own both "apple tv" "new mac mini server" I say the best route is with the new mac mini with hdmi connect...but when you ad aTV Flash to the apple tv then it's a whole better experience, so I could see what the apps would do as it would give you better options, because Atv as it is needs some help, but hey it was supposed to be a hobby remember? Well I like the hobby pretty much thank you :-)
post #102 of 231
Whatever Apple does with their TV thing, all I ask is they (1) make the networking "just work", and (2) get iTunes sync working again.

<rant>
Apple, please. AppleTV networking has earned a special place in computing hell, not far from Windows ME. Good thing AppleTV has been a "hobby" because it would've been a disaster in the mainstream. Apple, if you can't make it "just work" then kill it. If I wanted headaches I'd buy from Microsoft.
</rant>

All better, thank you.
post #103 of 231
I don't know it is me or not. Apple doesn't seem to care about high definition quality. why will they drop 1080p which everybody wants nowadays. it's bad sign. do you think if Apple would do something, it will change something or they will be successful? wrong. their decision about high definition quality of TV contents is totally wrong. it's just excuse that their A1 processor can't handle. just like iphone 4 attenuate problem. what a shame.
post #104 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by MandrakeTheMagician View Post

Drop 1080p !!!!

What a mistake !!!!

So I'll still buy the next DVICO TVIX device.

What part of "this is a rumor" did you people not understand?

It's a rumor, not verified by anything... and it's pretty stupid to boot.

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GOA

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post #105 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Ive seen that proposed a few times. I never understood how that would be easier or better than an iDevice with the remote control to quickly type in names or navigate quickly via other on-screen helpers. Or just a remote control. I just dont see trying to tap and swipe a touchpad makes much sense, especially knowing the touchpad requires a physical press of the front feet for tap.

The magic pad also supports touch to tap as well....
post #106 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Fix View Post

dropping 1080p goes against Apple's philosophy of providing newer, better technologies.

plus, the people that would want an iTV are people with extra money and those people have larger screens and would appreciate the higher quality.

Apple again, driving towards the low end.

low end specs, high end prices. that's the norm right? i can totally see them doing this. i can also totally see me ignoring it just as i do the ipad, or as i like to think of it, the douche magnet. ipad should control my home entertainment center with an IR port that works for all my devices and the itv should allow me to watch content in true high def, otherwise i have no reason to buy it over xbox, or ps3, both of which have content and netflix and hd playback for cheaper than whatever apple is planning. hell, ps3 even has 1080p discs. are they going to aim at people who dont own a ps3 or xbox? boo.

at what point do you look over your shoulder and go, "damn, we have a crapload of money... maybe we should be going the extra mile to get marketshare by making devices NOone can resist?" the lastest stuff out of the mac camp has left a bit to be desired, though it's still somehow better than the pc alternatives. I guess you only really have to beat the best of the worst to be considered great. :|
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post #107 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

You are among a tiny, tiny minority who might benefit a slight amount form 1080p. But the normal consumer, of which there are millions, cannot see any difference and does not really care about crazy numbers.

Dude, is there anything you think Apple does that isn't absolutely perfect? If iTV or whatever it is called was doing 1080p you would be carping about how the 720p crowd are just "whiners" who are too cheap to get the latest technology and Apple doesn't want them anyway, etc., etc. Give me a break.
post #108 of 231
You know, there is one major part of this that isn't being talked about. That is FaceTime. Imagine being able to start or receive a FaceTime call from somebody, on your TV. All they would have to do is integrate a camera into the new AppleTV (or iTV, or bananaTV, or whatever). Those cameras are getting pathetically cheap, especially for this kind of thing. It would also be very Apple-like to include something like that into something that no one thought of before.
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post #109 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Fix View Post

dropping 1080p goes against Apple's philosophy of providing newer, better technologies.

plus, the people that would want an iTV are people with extra money and those people have larger screens and would appreciate the higher quality.

Apple again, driving towards the low end.

The 1080P limitation may not be a limitation of the iTV box itself-- rather a limitation of the source from which the iTV is streaming.

I just looked at NetFlix streaming to my iMac 20, and my iPad-- the picture quality is great on both.

I have heard that to notice a difference between 720P and 1080P you need a screen over 50".

Our largest screen is 46" in the family room. We have 27" TVs in 2 of the bedrooms and ATT U-verse.


We also have 2 iPads.

We don't buy anything from U-verse-- just basic Internet and TV.


When NetFlix comes to iTV, I suspect we will buy 3 additional iPads so each family member has one.

The iPad is an excellent device when used as a personal TV.

We have a Mac Mini (2 2-TereByte External Drives) setup as a media server: Ripped DVDs, Ripped CDs, Photos; Home Movies, Podcasts. We can stream these to the AppleTV through iTunes. Also we can stream these to the iPads with StreamToMe.

When NetFlix comes to the iTV, we can cut back on buying and ripping DVDs to store locally-- as NetFlix fleshes out their streaming catalog, it makes more sense to stream most things. Likely, we will always have some ripped DVDs as some of titles will never come to NetFlix-- Old TV series like: Two Fat Ladies, Fractured Flickers, etc.


Last evening I was at a long soccer practice (almost 3 hours). I took my iPad 3G, and over 3G was able to watch:

1) A liveCast over Stickam-- a friend is a singer composer and has a live show every Tuesday
2) part of a NetFlix movie
3) some short (5 min or less) home movies over remote StreamToMe.

Everything worked without a hitch-- that's using the (supposedly) crummy AT&T 3G service in the East San Francisco Bay area.


So, this idea of "anything you want to watch-- wherever, whenever" is becoming practical on a personal device. You can take it with you, and it dutifully resumes where you were-- regardless that others are "viewing their own thing" at the same time.


I also see great potential for games on the iTV with satellite iPads, iPhones and iPod touches.

Say, you have Scrabble: Monopoly: Clue; Yahtzee-- where the main board is on the big screen, and each player has his own device to play his turn.

MultiPlayer action games ala Wii, should be Fun and inexpensive.

.
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post #110 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by pt123 View Post

It wouldn't be the first time Apple copied another product's name.

I think this goes all the way back to the use of the name Apple and Macintosh.

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post #111 of 231
What if these rumours are both true and false regarding 720p? What Apple will release a new TV in the Mac Mini aluminum casing that can do 1080p and HDD for local storage, as well as other features as the flagship device for your big screen TV, but also releases a small TV that can only 720p and has local storage, expect for the OS, that is designed for the smaller TVs we tend to have in other rooms of the house. This could be the $99 TV that was rumoured.

Along with an TV SDK and App Store for the iOS BackRow UI this could the way Apple could capture the home theater market in ways that no other vendor could compete with.


Quote:
Originally Posted by shadash View Post

Dude, is there anything you think Apple does that isn't absolutely perfect? If iTV or whatever it is called was doing 1080p you would be carping about how the 720p crowd are just "whiners" who are too cheap to get the latest technology and Apple doesn't want them anyway, etc., etc. Give me a break.

Hes fraking with you. From what Im told hes and old troll from his forums that got banned so hes going to the extreme other side writing the exact opposite of what he thinks about Apple and their products.
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post #112 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by sippincider View Post

Whatever Apple does with their TV thing, all I ask is they (1) make the networking "just work", and (2) get iTunes sync working again.

<rant>
Apple, please. AppleTV networking has earned a special place in computing hell, not far from Windows ME. Good thing AppleTV has been a "hobby" because it would've been a disaster in the mainstream. Apple, if you can't make it "just work" then kill it. If I wanted headaches I'd buy from Microsoft.
</rant>

All better, thank you.

No networking issues here. And it is used daily for music and video.
post #113 of 231
They're getting closer in some respects here while leaving out some of the things they got right.

1) Adding apps is essential. Make it an iPad for your living room because its not going to go over as a pure media player.

2) Consumers might not need 1080, but they want it. I everyone went by their true needs, Apple wouldn't really need a Mac other than the white Macbook.

3) Don't think volume can replace quality on the game front. If you're going to try to compete with the Wii, X360, and PS3, they're not going to care if you have ten million casual games.

4) Apple really really needs to renegotiate their deals with the movie studios. Features and price points need to match physical media. iTunes extras with the same content with the DVD/blu-ray need to be standard with purchased movies.

4A) Rentals. Apple's trying to compete with cable Video on demand when the industry norm now is kiosks. Do you really expect anyone to ditch their DVD or Blu-Ray player when Red Box and the like are charging $1 for 24hr DVD rentals and $1.50 for Blu-Ray when Apple's charging $4 for SD and $5 for HD? Movie rentals are not a Macbook. Users aren't going to pay twice as much here for the Apple logo.

4B) Give the customer a few more rights. The ability to re-download lost content and some more rights with the Videos because the DRM there is outrageously oppressive.

5) Realize one size does not fit all here.
post #114 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Eggleston View Post

You know, there is one major part of this that isn't being talked about. That is FaceTime. Imagine being able to start or receive a FaceTime call from somebody, on your TV. All they would have to do is integrate a camera into the new AppleTV (or iTV, or bananaTV, or whatever). Those cameras are getting pathetically cheap, especially for this kind of thing. It would also be very Apple-like to include something like that into something that no one thought of before.

It sounds awful and invasive.
post #115 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Fix View Post

dropping 1080p goes against Apple's philosophy of providing newer, better technologies.

It also shows that the source doesn't actually know anything. Because the Apple TV has never been 1080p. It has always been 720. That is one of the biggest gripes from folks about calling the files HD, as those folks feel that only 1080 should have that name
post #116 of 231
God, I just hope they don't try to lock it down too much.

If they do, people will still seriously consider a WDTVLive+.

Please let us play stuff directly from Netflix and our own media servers and can-drives.

Maybe the next round of XBMC, Boxee or Perian?...


@Joe hs: Imagine that (esp. on a US website and about a US company). And in a country smaller than Florida with 1/6 our population, you guys still manage to be the most ethnocentric tossers on the face of the planet. Worse even than the French. I hope for all the Imams your INS lets into the country, that the surveillance cams in downtown London all stream 1080p to the bobbies trying to outlaw photography.
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post #117 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Hes fraking with you. From what Im told hes and old troll from his forums that got banned so hes going to the extreme other side writing the exact opposite of what he thinks about Apple and their products.

Thanks for the heads up.
post #118 of 231
Wow, all the Apple fanboys defending Apple for (allegedly) removing 1080p, when just about every single HDTV related products on the market supports 1080p, astounds me.

Let's consider the facts.
  1. Nearly every 40-inch or larger HDTVs on the market have 1080p resolution.
  2. Best selling HDTVs are 40-inch or larger.
  3. Most devices that connects to HDTV via HDMI supports 1080p.
  4. If you sit close enough, you can tell the difference between 720p (1280x720) and 1080p (1920x1080) even on smaller 40-inch HDTV.
  5. Larger percentage of TV programmings (e.g., Animal Planet, Cartoon Network, CBS, Cinemax, CNBC, CNN, Discover, Food Network, HBO, MTV, NBC, Nickelodeon, Showtime, Spike, Starz, Syfy, TBS, TNT, Universal, USA, Weather) are shown in 1080i, which are deinterlaced to 1080p on 1080p sets. Among the major networks, ABC, A&E, Disney, ESPN, Fox, Fox News, Fx, and History are 720p.

No one has a problem with Apple choosing to stream iTunes Store movies and TV shows at 720p, which is the norm among other streaming services (e.g., Hulu, Netflix) as well. But in time, more and more users will have the bandwidth for 1080p (and some services like YouTube have 1080p already). And some of us use 1080i camcorder and SLR for home movies, time shift TV programs to 1080p (e.g., El Gato or TiVo Desktop), or convert Blu-Ray to 1080p for disc-less viewing.
post #119 of 231
No it isn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MandrakeTheMagician View Post


The difference between 720p and 1080p is just HUGE !!!!!!!!!!!!
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post #120 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by SailorPaul View Post

Apple sez: "Here's a check, now be quiet for a while..."


All things considered that would have to be a mighty big check.
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