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Verizon CDMA iPhone currently undergoing testing - rumor

post #1 of 62
Thread Starter 
A new rumor suggests Apple is testing a CDMA iPhone, code-named N92, that would work on the Verizon network.

Jon Gruber of Daring Fireball said Wednesday that "a few little birdies" told him that a CDMA variant of the iPhone is just two steps away from production. According to the report, the device is in the EVT (engineering verification test) phase, one step below DVT (device verification test).

DVT status, which takes place right before production, is best known as the status of the iPhone 4 test unit that was "lost" in a bar by an Apple engineer in April.

In addition to Gruber's unidentified sources, the report cites several suppliers that have added to recent rumors of a CDMA iPhone. One rumor claimed Qualcomm is set to manufacture millions of CDMA chips for a Verizon iPhone in December. Another report points to Pegatron as a supplier for the CDMA iPhone.

While a CDMA iPhone could work on a number of networks, Verizon, which is the largest wireless provider in the U.S., seems the most likely candidate. A June report by Bloomberg mentioned January 2011 as the target for a Verizon-compatible iPhone launch. According to Gruber, a product currently in EVT would be on track for a January 2011 release.

On Monday, AT&T warned that some of its smartphone exclusivity agreements will soon expire. The news, filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, set off a fresh round of speculation about the expansion of the iPhone to other U.S. carriers. Steven Fox, an analyst with CLSA, cites the new exclusivity references as evidence that Apple could add Verizon as a U.S. carrier by early 2011.
post #2 of 62
This cannot come soon enough. I'm going to be hitting the bars around Cupertino! Just to "borrow" it, not take it permanently. I'll use my roommates computer so they can't trace it back to me.
post #3 of 62
"Jon Gruber of Daring Fireball"

Why is this guy always quoted? I looked him up.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gruber

and what has he done to get quoted so much? He has barely done anything in the world of IT/Tech besides his blog that is nothing but a daily rant on stuff he likes.

I mean I could sit around and make predictions about when the next iMac, iPhone, iLife is going to come out and be right 50% of the time which is probably better than him.
post #4 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

"Jon Gruber of Daring Fireball"

Why is this guy always quoted? I looked him up.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gruber

and what has he done to get quoted so much? He has barely done anything in the world of IT/Tech besides his blog that is nothing but a daily rant on stuff he likes.

I mean I could sit around and make predictions about when the next iMac, iPhone, iLife is going to come out and be right 50% of the time which is probably better than him.

No, he tends to be right a lot. Much more than the idiot "analysts" that get quoted, and more than 50%. And I don't think random guessing would net you a 50% rate, probably closer to 10 or 15.

Gordon
post #5 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

"Jon Gruber of Daring Fireball"

Why is this guy always quoted? I looked him up.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gruber

and what has he done to get quoted so much? He has barely done anything in the world of IT/Tech besides his blog that is nothing but a daily rant on stuff he likes.

I mean I could sit around and make predictions about when the next iMac, iPhone, iLife is going to come out and be right 50% of the time which is probably better than him.

Read his site: daringfireball.net. It is always interesting.
post #6 of 62
As much as has been speculated here about how angered SJ was by Verizon's initial iPhone rejection, I can only imagine what they must have had to agree to for Steve to exact his revenge. I am, however, hopeful that this will happen, at least to prove that SJ is not cutting off his nose to spite his face and is now thinking like a CEO in charge of maximizing profit for the shareholders instead of the usual egomaniacal ranting we usually get from him.

Not that the stock hasn't done well, it is just that a Verizon phone will be huge, except that it reportedly can't do data and voice simultaneously. I'm sticking with AT&T anyway.

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post #7 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Not that the stock hasn't done well, it is just that a Verizon phone will be huge, except that it reportedly can't do data and voice simultaneously. I'm sticking with AT&T anyway.

That's the only show stopper. If it can't do voice and data, people are going to feel real stupid mocking ATT for so long only to buy what's basically an Edge iPhone.
post #8 of 62
It wouldn't be a day ending in y if this rumor wasn't posted here.
post #9 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

"Jon Gruber of Daring Fireball"

Why is this guy always quoted? I looked him up.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gruber

and what has he done to get quoted so much? He has barely done anything in the world of IT/Tech besides his blog that is nothing but a daily rant on stuff he likes.

I mean I could sit around and make predictions about when the next iMac, iPhone, iLife is going to come out and be right 50% of the time which is probably better than him.

The only problem is that Gruber's right 90% of the time. He basically gave the talking points and the name of the 3GS before it came out. If you, like Gruber, can "predict" a Mac Mini server model than you should start your own blog and get paid for advertising because that's one hell of a guess.

The only sites I listen to for rumors are AI (when it's their story and not quoting an analyst) & Daring Fireball.

If Gruber says a Verizon iPhone is coming it's most likely true.
post #10 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

That's the only show stopper. If it can't do voice and data, people are going to feel real stupid mocking ATT for so long only to buy what's basically an Edge iPhone.

How is Verizon 3G like an Edge phone? I can count on 1 hand the times I have wanted to use voice and data simultaneously.
post #11 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadash View Post

How is Verizon 3G like an Edge phone? I can count on 1 hand the times I have wanted to use voice and data simultaneously.

Good for you, I do it daily, so looks like we balance each other out.
post #12 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadash View Post

How is Verizon 3G like an Edge phone? I can count on 1 hand the times I have wanted to use voice and data simultaneously.

Let me check. Yep AAPL just hit 375! Hellooooo.... Are you still there? I guess Verizon has dropped calls after all. Oh... did I do that?

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post #13 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadash View Post

How is Verizon 3G like an Edge phone?

Because like Edge you can't do voice and data at the same time

Quote:
I can count on 1 hand the times I have wanted to use voice and data simultaneously.

That is rather the more important point. Long time Verizon users are used to not having this feature so it would be the status quo for them. No big deal.

That said. who knows how long this testing will last or even for certain if it is for Verizon at this point. They could be working on this for somewhere outside of the US at this point. Or their testing could show that a CDMA iphone lacks the level of quality that Jobs demands and nix the whole thing. Or perhaps they are testing CDMA in the hopes of creating a phone that can handle the up and coming LTE, with both GSM and CDMA fallbacks. Which will be released as iphone 6 when the contract is up in 2012


Gruber is good, but he's not perfect. Assuming this is for a near release and/or Verizon could be a 10% time

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post #14 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadash View Post

How is Verizon 3G like an Edge phone? I can count on 1 hand the times I have wanted to use voice and data simultaneously.

Yikes, I do it quite a bit. Headset on, keep on the con-call while checking email, browsing, hitting google maps. I think it's most annoying when I had the iPhone gen1 (Edge) and I was doing browsing, downloading, doing data stuff, how often I'd have voicemail waiting for me since the phone couldn't receive calls while I was data'ing.

-Chris
post #15 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

I mean I could sit around and make predictions about when the next iMac, iPhone, iLife is going to come out and be right 50% of the time which is probably better than him.

No actually, you couldn't.
post #16 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

That said. who knows how long this testing will last or even for certain if it is for Verizon at this point. They could be working on this for somewhere outside of the US at this point. Or their testing could show that a CDMA iphone lacks the level of quality that Jobs demands and nix the whole thing. Or perhaps they are testing CDMA in the hopes of creating a phone that can handle the up and coming LTE, with both GSM and CDMA fallbacks. Which will be released as iphone 6 when the contract is up in 2012


Gruber is good, but he's not perfect. Assuming this is for a near release and/or Verizon could be a 10% time

There is too much detail in his post to make it seem like he's wrong. Besides, can you tell me when the last time he's been wrong on an upcoming product? I'm guessing not in a couple of years.

It's quite possible it could be coming to everywhere but Verizon but literally all the rumors that have come out in the past few months have said this is pretty much a done deal with Verizon from the WSJ, Business Week & TechCrunch. If Gruber's post is right then this device is two steps away from hitting production which hits the timeline of all these rumors saying production would start later this year.

I have an iPhone 4 and I hope to see a Verizon version. The last thing I want to see is Android having Windows market share. It's bad enough to see Google selling out net neutrality and it would be a nightmare if they controlled the mobile industry.
post #17 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

That's the only show stopper. If it can't do voice and data, people are going to feel real stupid mocking ATT for so long only to buy what's basically an Edge iPhone.

It's called SVDO, I'm pretty sure VZW is implementing it. Needs new CDMA chips in the handsets...which the iphone will have cause Steve Jobs will want it.
post #18 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

"Jon Gruber of Daring Fireball"

Why is this guy always quoted? I looked him up.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gruber

and what has he done to get quoted so much? He has barely done anything in the world of IT/Tech besides his blog that is nothing but a daily rant on stuff he likes.

I mean I could sit around and make predictions about when the next iMac, iPhone, iLife is going to come out and be right 50% of the time which is probably better than him.

Then, do it.

And, come back and tell us in a few months how that panned out.

Otherwise, stop criticizing.
post #19 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristophB View Post

It wouldn't be a day ending in y if this rumor wasn't posted here.

Mercredi.
post #20 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Mercredi.

Doh! Those pesky other languages.
post #21 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

The only problem is that Gruber's right 90% of the time. He basically gave the talking points and the name of the 3GS before it came out. If you, like Gruber, can "predict" a Mac Mini server model than you should start your own blog and get paid for advertising because that's one hell of a guess.

The only sites I listen to for rumors are AI (when it's their story and not quoting an analyst) & Daring Fireball.

If Gruber says a Verizon iPhone is coming it's most likely true.

It has to be said though (before the Gruber worship gets too thick), that he's just a regular guy.

He's not some kind of predictive genius or anything, he's just got friends on the inside. Friends who are smart enough to give him hints, but ethical enough not to break their agreements and tell him anything directly. Which is basically what you want.
post #22 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Putztacular View Post

It's called SVDO, I'm pretty sure VZW is implementing it. Needs new CDMA chips in the handsets...which the iphone will have cause Steve Jobs will want it.

Wait, SVDO? Stevedo?
post #23 of 62
for high speed 3G ATT after all those crybabies leave for Verizon and start overloading their network.
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post #24 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

It has to be said though (before the Gruber worship gets too thick), that he's just a regular guy.

He's not some kind of predictive genius or anything, he's just got friends on the inside. Friends who are smart enough to give him hints, but ethical enough not to break their agreements and tell him anything directly. Which is basically what you want.

I enjoy Gruber's work and, from what I hear, isn't exactly the nicest guy in the world to put it nicely. But I do give credit where it's due.

Maybe "prediction" is the wrong word. It's clear he has people on the inside who have a lot wide-ranging knowledge of Apple product development since his rumors are on both the Mac and iOS. As does AI.
post #25 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

As much as has been speculated here about how angered SJ was by Verizon's initial iPhone rejection...

I don't recall ever seeing anything about SJ being "angered" by Verizon's rejection. Where is that coming from?

Let's just hope they remember to test it outside of a case! Sorry, couldn't resist.
post #26 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Because like Edge you can't do voice and data at the same time.

Not true. ATTWS (in some markets) and a few other major providers around the globe employ EDGE 2.75G, a FW upgrade that allows simultaneous voice and data, and, technically, a “transitional” 2G technology - but a ratified 3G technology. ATTWS is considering employing EDGE 2.75G in markets that will likely never see WCDMA/LTE but have sufficient backhaul and market to serve the need. The other side of it is that handsets need to have the capability for EDGE 2.75G - I’ve owned a couple of European Nokia phones capable of simultaneous data and voice, tho’ I’ll take my iPhone 4 any day of the week.
post #27 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

I don't recall ever seeing anything about SJ being "angered" by Verizon's rejection. Where is that coming from?

Let's just hope they remember to test it outside of a case! Sorry, couldn't resist.

Verizon Communications president and chief operating officer Denny Strigl said: "The iPhone product is something we are happy we aren't the first to market with."

Verizon vice president Jim Gerace (one of many veeps at the company) said: "We said no. We have nothing bad to say about the Apple iPhone. We just couldn't reach a deal that was mutually beneficial."

Sure it doesn't say Steve was miffed but yeah he was.

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post #28 of 62
Same rumor different day..
Tired of it really. I worked for VZW and wouldn't switch to VZW if they gave the phone out free.

VZW will get the iPhone sometime in 2012 after the AT&T 5 years is up.
I have as much chance as being correct as this Goober.. Gruber.. whatever his name is..

Maybe Sprint is getting it and not Vzw? ever thought of that? I heard T-Mobile was also supposed to have it be years end as well...

All Rumors...
post #29 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadash View Post

How is Verizon 3G like an Edge phone? I can count on 1 hand the times I have wanted to use voice and data simultaneously.

Then you must be a Verizon customer.
post #30 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Putztacular View Post

It's called SVDO, I'm pretty sure VZW is implementing it. Needs new CDMA chips in the handsets...which the iphone will have cause Steve Jobs will want it.

No way is VZW implementing SVDO for data use when theyre barreling forward with LTE deployment and testing. Maybe SVDO for voice, but Id bet a shiny nickel that the two major LTE carriers are going to need every bit and byte of backhaul for all of those sexy LTE devices theyll want to sell. I get decent EVDO data speeds in the middle of the Oregon Coast Range or Cascades right now - myself, and none of my employees would pay a nickel more to VZW if theyre stepping down to 1X Advanced CDMA2000, and VZW knows it. The specs for SVDO are just short of a year old at this writing - LTE is going up NOW. We use both ATTWS and VZW, and Ive frozen all VZW smartphone purchases until 2/2011 because I know whats likely coming - smartphones on VZW with simultaneous 1X voice and LTE data. QED.
post #31 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Putztacular View Post

It's called SVDO, I'm pretty sure VZW is implementing it. Needs new CDMA chips in the handsets...which the iphone will have cause Steve Jobs will want it.

You're pretty sure? Well they'd better hurry! Since they have no phones using it right now, wouldn't it be a little weird if they launched it the same day as they launched a CDMA iphone? Yeah...
post #32 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by bones View Post

Not true. ATTWS (in some markets) and a few other major providers around the globe employ EDGE 2.75G, a FW upgrade that allows simultaneous voice and data, and, technically, a transitional 2G technology - but a ratified 3G technology. ATTWS is considering employing EDGE 2.75G in markets that will likely never see WCDMA/LTE but have sufficient backhaul and market to serve the need. The other side of it is that handsets need to have the capability for EDGE 2.75G - Ive owned a couple of European Nokia phones capable of simultaneous data and voice, tho Ill take my iPhone 4 any day of the week.

So you're saying that Edge is BETTER than Verizon's network? Yikes.
post #33 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Then you must be a Verizon customer.

Good guess but try again. Had the iPhone 2G and iPhone 3G actually. Still didn't use voice and data at the same time. Of course where I am, supposedly a good AT&T area, it was basically voodoo to be able to get a signal at all. In that case, I couldn't use voice or data on their own, much less simultaneously.
post #34 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Because like Edge you can't do voice and data at the same time

Maybe that is due to the fact that EDGE is a data technology, you don't do voice over EDGE
post #35 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadash View Post

Good guess but try again. Had the iPhone 2G and iPhone 3G actually. Still didn't use voice and data at the same time. Of course where I am, supposedly a good AT&T area, it was basically voodoo to be able to get a signal at all. In that case, I couldn't use voice or data on their own, much less simultaneously.

That makes one of you then. Don't make the mistake of thinking that you're typical though.
post #36 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by bones View Post

No way is VZW implementing SVDO for data use when theyre barreling forward with LTE deployment and testing. Maybe SVDO for voice, but Id bet a shiny nickel that the two major LTE carriers are going to need every bit and byte of backhaul for all of those sexy LTE devices theyll want to sell. I get decent EVDO data speeds in the middle of the Oregon Coast Range or Cascades right now - myself, and none of my employees would pay a nickel more to VZW if theyre stepping down to 1X Advanced CDMA2000, and VZW knows it. The specs for SVDO are just short of a year old at this writing - LTE is going up NOW. We use both ATTWS and VZW, and Ive frozen all VZW smartphone purchases until 2/2011 because I know whats likely coming - smartphones on VZW with simultaneous 1X voice and LTE data. QED.

Actually...yes way. LTE has been up for some time in test markets. When it goes GA, probably around Thanksgiving it will be for data services like dongles and wifi access points, probably not handset until Q1 2011 at the earliest. SVDO simply allows 1X voice and data services to run simultaneously. It is an enhancement to CDMA that doesn't preclude LTE. The CDMA voice & data network will be running for another decade and LTE voice is supposedly going to be CDMA 1x until VoLTE. You will pay most probably pay more to VZW because you will go off your unlimited data plan and go on to a tiered data plan when you switch to LTE. Guess what, you're gonna fall back to CDMA data when you roam. So actually it would seem, CDMA will be around for years even though the LTE network is a few months from going live, a cdma or cdma/lte iphone is ramping up for production to be released in January. Apple is notorious for controlling certain aspects of the user experience and it's hard to believe that would change now and allow there to be such a basic functional difference between a umts and a cdma uphone, namely concurrent voice and date calls. QED. If we knew the Qualcomm MSM in the supposed CDMA iphone it would go a long way to clearing this all up. I think that though Gruber says CDMA it's ever so possible it's LTE with CDMA fallback.
post #37 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

"Jon Gruber of Daring Fireball"

Why is this guy always quoted? I looked him up.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gruber

and what has he done to get quoted so much? He has barely done anything in the world of IT/Tech besides his blog that is nothing but a daily rant on stuff he likes.

I mean I could sit around and make predictions about when the next iMac, iPhone, iLife is going to come out and be right 50% of the time which is probably better than him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonPrice67 View Post

No, he tends to be right a lot. Much more than the idiot "analysts" that get quoted, and more than 50%. And I don't think random guessing would net you a 50% rate, probably closer to 10 or 15.

Gordon

Gruber has done a lot of technical articles on how to install the latest version of: Java; PHP; Apache, etc on OS X. He has the bona fides and is well respected by the Apple technical community!

He's earned his props!

.
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post #38 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

That makes one of you then. Don't make the mistake of thinking that you're typical though.

I'd recommend the same to you.
post #39 of 62
It seems extremely likely Apple has had a CDMA iPhone in play at some level before the original iPhone was even announced. Besides the inevitable if AT&T didntbwork out it's a good bargaining chip to hold over AT&T to make then bend over for Apple's demands.

Since this is Gruber and he is often correct because he has sources inside (he predicted the 940x640 iPhone 4 display months ahead of time) I have no reason it's not true.

There have also been mentions of a CDMA iPhone in China. This is the other end of the stick. You can't easily hide the need for millions of CDMA iPhones for a quarter. This makes me think we'll get an announcement within a couple months and a release in the first month or two of 2011.
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post #40 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Mercredi.

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