Android-based smartphone shipments leapfrog Apple's iPhone - Page 6

The Article said Android Leap-Frogged Apple in 2nd Qtr Numbers . Well in May iPhone supplies were drying up in anticipation of iP4 in June and here it is almost September and supplies of iP4 are still constrained and waits are 2 wks. So just hold onto your spreadsheets come Apple Financials in late October we will see that flip-flop occur again and not by some slim margin. Apple hasn't even started shipping to all it's iPhone countries and won't before end of Qtr so look for another smashing CY4 Qtr (Apple FY 1 Qtr). As someone posted earlier in this thread we are comparing 1 Model from 1 Manufacturer to a Dozen Droid Models and a half Dozen Manufacturers let's compare Apples to Apples

I'm new here, and as I read his post and clicked his link, I honestly thought pretty much what you said: "Why would he give a link to prove he has no idea what he's talking about?"

Some people...

Duh, indeed. I love it when your own data disproves what you're claiming. Your own data states that only 6% of iPhone customers plan to buy Android next time while 21% of Android customers plan to buy iPhone next.

Or, if you look at Blackberry users, 29% want iPhone next vs only 21% wanting Android next.

Your own data shows that Apple is preferred.



Actually, even expensive ones. My daughter's Motorola Backflip is over $100 subsidized - and runs 1.6. They're saying that it will eventually run 2.1, but not for us (I don't know if it's the carrier or whether it's just not available in our area yet, but it's still not out). As for 2.2? I don't expect it any time in the life of the phone.

Are you seriously going to suggest that with sales like this any of the major Android OEMs are at risk of being out of business soon? Android is single handedly saving Motorola and Sony Ericsson. I'd bet on Nokia going under before those two at this juncture. Though Nokia would probably jump on the Android bandwagon before then.

Beware the market-share seeker, they are ultimately rent-seeking (see Microsoft). I value the profit-seeker instead, they strive to earn their dollar.

Case in point: Google just gave Verizon a big bear-hug with their watered down Net Neutrality suggestions... a huge 180-degree shift. Verizon (all telecoms) are notorious rent-seekers, they like oil companies and big banks are so protected from actual competition and plan to (buying congress to) gut the internet to make extra money on each internet transaction that crosses their lines.

Google is now part of the problem, and has allied themselves with Verizon, much more than Apple has with AT&T.

Figures lie and liars figure. What's your point?

Stats are only relevant based on what you are looking at and what your concerns are. For example, if you are a developer you care about which OS has the largest installed base, which OS is growing and ultimately which OS you can better monetize your efforts on, both in the short and long term.

If you're a customer, you may not not even care about stats because as long the phone does what you want and you can get the apps you want, you're set.

Some are saying the only relevant stat is OS to OS. This report was obviously looking at just smartphones (they weren't fixing anything, it's just that they only care about smartphones). And now you are suggesting that we only look at phone sales? What are we supposed to learn from that? That the iPhone sells well? Has anybody ever challenged that point? Is it really relevant?

So what's your point? Apple's holding out? Well, there's several high-end Android models that weren't counted last quarter too. And the EVO was also suffering from shortages. And even if the iPhone does come up on top, isn't that what should happen? One would expect Apple to do well in the iPhone launch quarter. But is a quarterly statistical blip relevant or does the long term trend matter more? Goes back to what I said earlier, how you look at it depends on where you stand.

He claimed the majority of Android owners prefer Android. Show where he's wrong from the Gizmodo article.

An iOS powered iTV/AppleTV could also give a boost to iPhone/iPod/iPad sales.

Speaking of which, it isn't quite fair to compare Android to iPhone, I'd like to see a total comparison to iOS devices as that is a better comparison of market share. I know a lot of people who would opt for a cheap Android phone combined with an iPad instead of an iPhone+iPad.

Indeed. I see a lot of folks on transit every day with an iPod touch for music and games and a phone for text and calls. It's very noticeable because they usually hold them both in one hand which looks kind of funny, but it is rather common.

Mostly the second device is a Blackberry, but there are a few Android phones there too.

I think for the most part, as a developer, you'd be concerned about which platform presents the best opportunity to make money on sales. From every last article I've ever read on the subject, app developers make FAR more money on iOS than on Android.

Installed base is completely meaningless if those customers don't buy what you want to sell.

They aren't smartphones, so why would you count them in the smartphone sales reports?

Android isn't a smartphone either, it's an operating system; just as iOS is an operating system. Seems if we're going to be talking about which operating systems dominates in the "units sold" department, we should compare operating system to operating system.

Otherwise, you're making an unfair comparison between a hardware and software manufacturer with one new model released per year on one carrier in the U.S. against dozens of phone models with constant updates by several manufacturers.

So either compare mobile OS to mobile OS sales by combining iPad, iPod, and iPhone sales against everything running Android, or compare hardware manufacturer product to hardware manufacturer product, which in this case would be Google's Nexus One vs. Apple's iPhone.

Either way, Apple is still in the lead by a comfortable margin.

They are counting the OS of the smartphones sold, so they only count the iPhone (as the other two aren't smartphones), and they only count the Android devices that are smartphones. It isn't that hard a concept to understand.

Notice that I was referring to the bolded text in your post. You claim that Android users will try it out and then move onto something else. I see you failed to mention that 71% of current users are willing to buy another Android device. Which to me means that those 71% like Android.

I believe no one will argue that an iPhone user will want another iPhone the vast majority of the time. It's a given.. Considering how close the Android and iPhone converts are from the BlackBerry line (drawing within 6% of the fabled iPhone), I don't believe it's a bad showing at all for Android, a "clunky" OS.

What the data in the link clearly says is that a majority of the people who have an Android device want another Android device and a significant chunk of of BlackBerry users are moving over to Android. And that the majority of the iPhone users want another iPhone. As time moves forward and Google improves Android to 3.0 and beyond, I'm willing to bet that that 29% going to the iPhone from Android will start to shrink.

Sure, if you really want your ego stroked here, the iPhone is still a wanted device. But as all current data is showing, the trend is that the people are starting to want Android just as much, if not more.

That's for now. Will that stat hold true always? I'm not so sure.

For now, the place to be is iOS if you are a developer. But two years, if and when the predictions come to pass and Android surpasses iOS in installed base completely and there



Like I said earlier, most of the complaints about Android users not buying apps are more of because the apps on Android sucked until very recently.

Android is only now getting games like Angry Birds. Or a much more functional Facebook app. I will bet real money that profits for developers will rise if they start putting quality stuff on Android.

Take a look at this. According to this site looks like Android has not only taken over the iPhone but also iOS including the iPad and iPod Touch.

http://www.androidcentral.com/gartne...-androids-huge

Not sure how realiable this is.

Except that there's really not much in the way of Android development of tablets yet (unless you count that POS that Archos put out), though stuff like the Dell Streak will be out shortly. Not that that's an excuse. But it is the reason why Android is largely looked upon as a phone OS.

I do agree with you that they should be comparing OS to OS. But I don't see why people are so sensitive about these reports. They are meant to slander Apple. These reports are put out routinely to assess the state of the mobile market. So naturally they look only at mobile phones.


I'm sorry but when people make this argument it smacks of a desperate excuse. Even Jobs would not use such a desperate line. It's entirely Apple's choice to have one phone and not license the OS. And until now Jobs has been happy to roll out iSuppli charts showing how much iOS dominates market share and installed base. And now that those same stats show that Android is gaining ground quickly it's unfair to make the comparison? Clearly Jobs didn't get the memo before the iPhone keynote this year.


Android is not all that far behind. If Apple is selling about 22 million (12 million iPhones+8 million iPads+2 million iTouch) iDevices per quarter that's about 245 000 sales/activations per day. Google's already at 200 000 per day (up from 160k per day from a mere two months ago) and they aren't exactly showing signs of slowing down. I wouldn't call it a comfortable margin anymore.

Keep in mind that they beat Blackberry in the US, 18 months earlier than what most analysts predicted. Android is clearly emerging as a solid competitor.

The Gartner report is confusing because they just refer to mobile devices without defining what they are. But the numbers look like they are iPhone only.

It's not accurate and we can easily verify this with Apple's quarterly earnings for the 2nd calendar quarter.

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010/07/20results.html 8.4M iPhone + 3.27M iPad = 11.67 known iOS devices + (9.41M iPods - non-iOS iPods) = n iOS devices

In the past we were able to figure out the iPod Touch sales for a quarter, but that was because they stated the iPhone sales and number of devices that shipped with iOS during the conference call. I don't think they did that this time and can't verify as I'm using my iPhone to write this post.

edit: Based on the Android site's wording it's incorrect, however, BusinessInsider correctly stated that Android would NOW be outselling all iOS devices as of Schmidt anmouncing 200k devices per day with Android are being shipped. That is 18M a quarter and definitely beats Apple for the 2nd calendar quarter. However, that is a lull time in Apple sales due to it being before Back to School and before the new iPhone and iPod Touches so I wouldn't put any credence into a comparison of Android now to iOS then.

http://www.businessinsider.com/andro...ing-ios-2010-8

I'd argue that it has less to do with the quality of the apps (which, granted, I have heard a few complaints about) and more to do with the iTunes ecosystem Apple has spent years building and perfect that makes it so convenient to buy apps and songs and movies and TV shows and share those things between devices. People have shown they are willing to download Android apps; they just haven't shown a willingness to pay for those apps.

Add to this the fact that piracy is rampant in Google's open garden, and you have a lot of developers who are unwilling to take the risk with developing for Android.

Apparently comparing two things on a level playing field is a difficult concept for you to understand. If you can't see why those comparisons are crap, I really can't help you and we really can't go any further in this discussion.

It's all the same, really. You aren't going to change my mind and I'm not going to change yours.

I get that, but it's hardly Apple's fault that they have been in the lead compared to Google when it comes to using their mobile operating system for devices besides phones. In fact, this and Android as a whole kind of shows how Google is turning into the new Microsoft: They don't innovate, they imitate. Sure, Apple didn't invent the smartphone or the tablet computer, but many would argue they perfected it and showed others how it should be done, and Google decides that since they can't be first, they'll pull a Microsoft, steal the idea, and dominate the market.

Apple are just foolish for allowing it to happen again. You'd have to believe there was something they could have done to prevent it.


The problem is that people do use these reports as a cudgel to slam Apple and Apple fans. Some of us take offense to that. It's human nature to pick a side and cheer for it, and some even argue about why their side is better than the other side. It's the same reason sports are so popular.


Not that I doubt your numbers, but I'd have to see it broken down by an honest, impartial party before I believe any sales figures for either side.

However, even if the numbers show that Android devices are only selling 50,000 per month, the fact remains that Apple is the only company manufacturing iOS devices, so the time will come when Android devices are in more hands than iOS devices, simply because there are dozens and dozens of such devices by several different manufacturers. It's the law of averages.

The time will come when, no matter what set of data one looks at, Apple will not be number one in the battle between iOS and Android when it comes to total sales. This is exactly what Google set out to do, just as Microsoft set out to do the same in the world of PCs.

The more things change, the more they stay the same...

I'm not going to change my mind as there is only one way of recording smartphone sales, only count the devices that are smartphones. So iPod touches and iPads don't get counted, and for Android, only the smartphone models get counted. How else are you going to compare the sales numbers of smartphone phone OS's if you start counting other devices as well?

Oh please. That's the Apple Kool Aid talking. How many iPhone users buy all their music from iTunes? Heck, how many Mac users buy all their stuff from iTunes? I can count on one hand the number of times I've bought something from iTunes on my Mac. This idea that somehow people buy more apps because of an ecosystem that also sells them music is BS. It really comes down to the quality of the apps. And I say that as an Android user. Why would I buy something I don't like? Make me an app I want to pay for and I will. And I have.

In any event, if the concern is about the ecosystem, I do believe they are adding music and movies to Android Market soon. So they'll be rounding out the ecosystem as well. Though I just don't buy your line of reasoning.

And then there's also the fact that many things that are apps on iOS are included functionality on Android. How well would a TomTom app sell on Android when Google gives you navigation for free...and let's face it, nobody gets a smartphone without a data plan to fuel that navigation feature.

As for piracy being rampant, more Apple flavoured propaganda. I am sure there's some piracy. But it's not as widespread as Android haters would have you believe. Seriously, crap like this is just like Apple haters overblowing antennagate. And if developers are so scared to develop for Android why has Android Market grown at the pace it has (albeit not to the size of the App store). It's got room to improve to be sure. But I really doubt developers are staying away from Android. If you have evidence to the contrary, I'd like to see it.

I think this leads right back into the argument that the quality of Android apps are just starting to rise. Personally, I have no issues paying for apps if I use them on a daily basis. Even more so if it leads to huge updates to polish them and add more features. I know this to be true of many of my Android friends as well. If you go to any Android forum, you'll see a lot of users asking for ports of iOS apps for the same price, so the demand is there.

It's one of those circular logic things. Android users demand these apps, but the iOS developers are slightly hesitant to go to Android because they're comfortable where they are. But a lot of developers are starting to take the leap by putting out a free version of their app to test the waters (so to speak).

As for the piracy, I don't believe it's any more rampant than what's on iOS. Google is taking many steps with the developers to ensure that apps can't be copied from one device to another. One method they're rolling out is to have the app ping the servers with the phone's Google account (since an Android phone must have a unique account to activate). If it's on the list of accounts that has purchased the app, it'll let it run. If not, it blocks it from running or limits it to its free functions.

Agreed. I envision also that, in a couple of years, voice calling as we know it is going to start a slow decline, paced by the speed of deployment and adoption of 3G-enabled (and 4G and so on) and communications-ready devices such as Apple is now ready to start deploying. When iPod Touch gets its 3G micro-SIM like the iPad and both get their front-facing camera, and as FaceTime inevitably becomes widespread, the lines between iPhone/iPod/iPad will start to blur, and in a few years they'll be a single product line (or maybe two, with functions that we maybe don't even dream of) only with different sizes/form factors and extra hardware specs for catering to slightly different customer needs and price-points. Just like Macs are today: varying sizes and shapes and qualities but all serving the same OS and mostly performing the same main functions.

See solipsism's math based on Apple's reporting. I might even be overly-generous assuming 22 million iDevices sold per quarter. That would assume every iPod sold was an iPod Touch.

I think there's a solid possibility that Android might just beat iPhone 4's launch quarter results. Though, realistically, I expect a few quarters of horse trading before Android definitively grabs the crown. But so far, Android has put up an impressive performance. The've risen to number one in the US a full 18 months before most had predicted it would happen. And producing 900%+ increase in global market share in the smartphone market, in one year is no small feat.


Jobs made Apple's bed and now he has to lie in it. To some extent, the rate of innovation on iOS has really slowed down. And it almost seems like they are resorting to gimmickry to sell iPhones. Facetime, for example, is nice. But a major selling feature? When you have to put out something that most iPhone 4 owners might not get to use in the entire life of their contract, you're starting to get desperate. Other big innovation? Folders. Oooh. Seriously, I expected better from Apple this time around. Where's all their cloud stuff? Where's over the air updates? Cloud2device sync for apps? What about universal voice-to-text and voice commands like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGbYVvU0Z5s

It seems to me like Apple got a little lazy at the top and thought that their huge lead in apps, and their media selling ecosystem would assure them the top spot perpetually. So they got lazy on cloud. Apple seems committed to trying to push content off the net and onto apps. That's how a device maker thinks. Google on the other hand, being an internet company understands its power and the potential of the cloud like nobody else really does. And that's taking them to new heights of innovation. For them, a phone is just a near-dumb portal to the cloud. I wish Apple would step up their game. I'd love to see how they handle cloud based computing and integrate it with the mobile space.

+1

Indeed, the most popular apps are likely to be the ones that got ported from the App Store....especially when it comes to gaming.

No I did not say anyone was going out of business. I said Android could be the number 1 OS in the world and its possible anyone of them "can" go out of business.

Games are exactly where the money's at. Android has plenty of general apps, but there's clearly a lack of the same quality of games found on iOS. Games have always been a huge profit driver in the software world.

I believe there's a huge untapped market in cross-platform gaming now that Android's out in such large numbers. Give me a quality game that I can play with all my friends, regardless if they own an iDevice or Android device and I won't hesitate to pay for it.

Considering that iOS is what makes the iPhone an iPhone how could you possibly be wrong?

Speaking of cloud services, part of me still thinks that the data centre Apple are constructing, may not be entirely intended for that supposed purpose, as everyone seems to assume.

I wonder if it is actually going to be used as a basis for a search engine to rival Google. Steve Jobs' ultimate incarnation of the principle of - 'don't get mad, get even' - vis a vis Googles encroachment upon their turf with Android.

The lack of obvious hiring of people with relevant expertise would tend to argue against this, but neither have I seen any evidence of hiring of staff with cloud computing expertise.

The whole operation is a very deep secret and I suspect it's true function will both hurt Google and profit Apple.

In other news, Google say they are activating 200,000 Android devices per day. That's around 71 million per year.

Yes, the "power and the potential of the cloud" to Google is the opportunity to get their hands on more of your data, further invade your privacy, and add to their e-dossier on you. Why should Apple implement something on iOS that helps Google violate customers privacy? And does anyone really still trust Google after their hypocritical sellout on net neutrality?

Right, just like any number of Windows PC manufacturers have gone out of business.

FaceTime is gimmickry? How is anyone supposed to take you seriously when you write stupid things like this. And Android's big innovation is cloud services? Wow, that's some innovation there.

Maybe you are right, maybe Android is the new Windows, and Google is the new Microsoft, and the Android fans are just as clueless as the Windows fans always have been. I do think Android mostly appeals to the same type of person Windows always has.

(Don't get too excited that your posts were replied to, I just skipped to the end of the thread.)

Possible, but I don't think it is a direct challenge to google. More like taking a smallish portion of google's search business on iOS. I don't think Apple has any interest in getting into the general search engine business. A single data centre, no matter how large, is not going to threaten google's search business. Googles has dozens of full sized data centers around the world as well as their untold number of secret drive and drop shipping container data centres. Even MS is believed to have about half as many data centers operating and they were expected to bring about 50% more online this year. Even though Apple's new centre will be huge, being a single data centre just does not give them the scale or scope to compete with or threaten google.

As for Apple hiring staff with cloud computing experience, they already have their MobileMe team, which I expect is growing, they have their iTunes team and the have their acquisition of lala which buys them expertise with cloud based media delivery. They may not have as many 'cloud' experts as google but they have some and Apple has always shown they are willing to stay lean with small teams in order to remain flexible, but it has usually worked for them. They also recent acquired Siri, the Virtual Assistant company.

They do seem to have some interest in search. I am sure they could use their data centre to power the Siri searches, but those searches are much more narrowly focused than google searches. If you are doing general knowledge or trivia questions, you would use google. If you are looking for a local restaurant or want a taxi, you might use Apple/Siri. It is an encroachment on google's turf, but doesn't seem threatening to me.

Er, Micron (not longer sells PC), Gateway (now part of Acer), Packard Bell (now part of Acer), eMachines (now part of Acer), Compaq (now part of HP), IBM (sold to Lenovo) There are probably a couple other name brands I don't recall that are now gone.

Well, here we go again.

1. There is no Android phone; there is only an Android OS
2. Google does not make phones.
3. Google does not sell an OS; they give it away for free.
4. Google does not sell any product to end users: they tried that and failed.
5. Apple sells premium smartphones to endusers.
6. Google collects and sells end user personal information to advertisers. The OS is just a data collection mechanism; the phone is an afterthought.
7. No single phone, 10 phones, or fifty phones running Android OS equal the sales of the iPhone.

Class dismissed.

Umm...clearly the title of this thread is "Android-based smartphones leapfrog Apple iPhone". Data that the article references claims otherwise to your statement above...

Nope. Not long ago, a survey showed that there were 60 Android handsets, and together, they, were able to overtake the iPhone. That was just before the Galaxy series of phones. So, as of a few weeks ago, you needed sixty Android devices to equal the iPhone sales.