or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Android-based smartphone shipments leapfrog Apple's iPhone
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Android-based smartphone shipments leapfrog Apple's iPhone - Page 6

post #201 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Take a look at this. According to this site looks like Android has not only taken over the iPhone but also iOS including the iPad and iPod Touch.

http://www.androidcentral.com/gartne...-androids-huge

Not sure how realiable this is.

The Gartner report is confusing because they just refer to mobile devices without defining what they are. But the numbers look like they are iPhone only.
post #202 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Take a look at this. According to this site looks like Android has not only taken over the iPhone but also iOS including the iPad and iPod Touch.

http://www.androidcentral.com/gartne...-androids-huge

Not sure how realiable this is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

The Gartner report is confusing because they just refer to mobile devices without defining what they are. But the numbers look like they are iPhone only.

It's not accurate and we can easily verify this with Apple's quarterly earnings for the 2nd calendar quarter.
Quote:
The Company sold 8.4 million iPhones in the quarter, representing 61 percent unit growth over the year-ago quarter. Apple sold 9.41 million iPods during the quarter, representing an eight percent unit decline from the year-ago quarter. The Company began selling iPads during the quarter, with total sales of 3.27 million.

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010/07/20results.html 8.4M iPhone + 3.27M iPad = 11.67 known iOS devices + (9.41M iPods - non-iOS iPods) = n iOS devices

In the past we were able to figure out the iPod Touch sales for a quarter, but that was because they stated the iPhone sales and number of devices that shipped with iOS during the conference call. I don't think they did that this time and can't verify as I'm using my iPhone to write this post.

edit: Based on the Android site's wording it's incorrect, however, BusinessInsider correctly stated that Android would NOW be outselling all iOS devices as of Schmidt anmouncing 200k devices per day with Android are being shipped. That is 18M a quarter and definitely beats Apple for the 2nd calendar quarter. However, that is a lull time in Apple sales due to it being before Back to School and before the new iPhone and iPod Touches so I wouldn't put any credence into a comparison of Android now to iOS then.
http://www.businessinsider.com/andro...ing-ios-2010-8
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #203 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

That's for now. Will that stat hold true always? I'm not so sure.

For now, the place to be is iOS if you are a developer. But two years, if and when the predictions come to pass and Android surpasses iOS in installed base completely and there




Like I said earlier, most of the complaints about Android users not buying apps are more of because the apps on Android sucked until very recently.

Android is only now getting games like Angry Birds. Or a much more functional Facebook app. I will bet real money that profits for developers will rise if they start putting quality stuff on Android.

I'd argue that it has less to do with the quality of the apps (which, granted, I have heard a few complaints about) and more to do with the iTunes ecosystem Apple has spent years building and perfect that makes it so convenient to buy apps and songs and movies and TV shows and share those things between devices. People have shown they are willing to download Android apps; they just haven't shown a willingness to pay for those apps.

Add to this the fact that piracy is rampant in Google's open garden, and you have a lot of developers who are unwilling to take the risk with developing for Android.
post #204 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

They are counting the OS of the smartphones sold, so they only count the iPhone (as the other two aren't smartphones), and they only count the Android devices that are smartphones. It isn't that hard a concept to understand.

Apparently comparing two things on a level playing field is a difficult concept for you to understand. If you can't see why those comparisons are crap, I really can't help you and we really can't go any further in this discussion.

It's all the same, really. You aren't going to change my mind and I'm not going to change yours.
post #205 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Except that there's really not much in the way of Android development of tablets yet (unless you count that POS that Archos put out), though stuff like the Dell Streak will be out shortly. Not that that's an excuse. But it is the reason why Android is largely looked upon as a phone OS.

I get that, but it's hardly Apple's fault that they have been in the lead compared to Google when it comes to using their mobile operating system for devices besides phones. In fact, this and Android as a whole kind of shows how Google is turning into the new Microsoft: They don't innovate, they imitate. Sure, Apple didn't invent the smartphone or the tablet computer, but many would argue they perfected it and showed others how it should be done, and Google decides that since they can't be first, they'll pull a Microsoft, steal the idea, and dominate the market.

Apple are just foolish for allowing it to happen again. You'd have to believe there was something they could have done to prevent it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

I do agree with you that they should be comparing OS to OS. But I don't see why people are so sensitive about these reports. They are meant to slander Apple. These reports are put out routinely to assess the state of the mobile market. So naturally they look only at mobile phones.

The problem is that people do use these reports as a cudgel to slam Apple and Apple fans. Some of us take offense to that. It's human nature to pick a side and cheer for it, and some even argue about why their side is better than the other side. It's the same reason sports are so popular.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Android is not all that far behind. If Apple is selling about 22 million (12 million iPhones+8 million iPads+2 million iTouch) iDevices per quarter that's about 245 000 sales/activations per day. Google's already at 200 000 per day (up from 160k per day from a mere two months ago) and they aren't exactly showing signs of slowing down. I wouldn't call it a comfortable margin anymore.

Keep in mind that they beat Blackberry in the US, 18 months earlier than what most analysts predicted. Android is clearly emerging as a solid competitor.

Not that I doubt your numbers, but I'd have to see it broken down by an honest, impartial party before I believe any sales figures for either side.

However, even if the numbers show that Android devices are only selling 50,000 per month, the fact remains that Apple is the only company manufacturing iOS devices, so the time will come when Android devices are in more hands than iOS devices, simply because there are dozens and dozens of such devices by several different manufacturers. It's the law of averages.

The time will come when, no matter what set of data one looks at, Apple will not be number one in the battle between iOS and Android when it comes to total sales. This is exactly what Google set out to do, just as Microsoft set out to do the same in the world of PCs.

The more things change, the more they stay the same...
post #206 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by guch20 View Post

Apparently comparing two things on a level playing field is a difficult concept for you to understand. If you can't see why those comparisons are crap, I really can't help you and we really can't go any further in this discussion.

It's all the same, really. You aren't going to change my mind and I'm not going to change yours.

I'm not going to change my mind as there is only one way of recording smartphone sales, only count the devices that are smartphones. So iPod touches and iPads don't get counted, and for Android, only the smartphone models get counted. How else are you going to compare the sales numbers of smartphone phone OS's if you start counting other devices as well?
post #207 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by guch20 View Post

I'd argue that it has less to do with the quality of the apps (which, granted, I have heard a few complaints about) and more to do with the iTunes ecosystem Apple has spent years building and perfect that makes it so convenient to buy apps and songs and movies and TV shows and share those things between devices. People have shown they are willing to download Android apps; they just haven't shown a willingness to pay for those apps.

Add to this the fact that piracy is rampant in Google's open garden, and you have a lot of developers who are unwilling to take the risk with developing for Android.

Oh please. That's the Apple Kool Aid talking. How many iPhone users buy all their music from iTunes? Heck, how many Mac users buy all their stuff from iTunes? I can count on one hand the number of times I've bought something from iTunes on my Mac. This idea that somehow people buy more apps because of an ecosystem that also sells them music is BS. It really comes down to the quality of the apps. And I say that as an Android user. Why would I buy something I don't like? Make me an app I want to pay for and I will. And I have.

In any event, if the concern is about the ecosystem, I do believe they are adding music and movies to Android Market soon. So they'll be rounding out the ecosystem as well. Though I just don't buy your line of reasoning.

And then there's also the fact that many things that are apps on iOS are included functionality on Android. How well would a TomTom app sell on Android when Google gives you navigation for free...and let's face it, nobody gets a smartphone without a data plan to fuel that navigation feature.

As for piracy being rampant, more Apple flavoured propaganda. I am sure there's some piracy. But it's not as widespread as Android haters would have you believe. Seriously, crap like this is just like Apple haters overblowing antennagate. And if developers are so scared to develop for Android why has Android Market grown at the pace it has (albeit not to the size of the App store). It's got room to improve to be sure. But I really doubt developers are staying away from Android. If you have evidence to the contrary, I'd like to see it.
post #208 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by guch20 View Post

I'd argue that it has less to do with the quality of the apps (which, granted, I have heard a few complaints about) and more to do with the iTunes ecosystem Apple has spent years building and perfect that makes it so convenient to buy apps and songs and movies and TV shows and share those things between devices. People have shown they are willing to download Android apps; they just haven't shown a willingness to pay for those apps.

Add to this the fact that piracy is rampant in Google's open garden, and you have a lot of developers who are unwilling to take the risk with developing for Android.

I think this leads right back into the argument that the quality of Android apps are just starting to rise. Personally, I have no issues paying for apps if I use them on a daily basis. Even more so if it leads to huge updates to polish them and add more features. I know this to be true of many of my Android friends as well. If you go to any Android forum, you'll see a lot of users asking for ports of iOS apps for the same price, so the demand is there.

It's one of those circular logic things. Android users demand these apps, but the iOS developers are slightly hesitant to go to Android because they're comfortable where they are. But a lot of developers are starting to take the leap by putting out a free version of their app to test the waters (so to speak).

As for the piracy, I don't believe it's any more rampant than what's on iOS. Google is taking many steps with the developers to ensure that apps can't be copied from one device to another. One method they're rolling out is to have the app ping the servers with the phone's Google account (since an Android phone must have a unique account to activate). If it's on the list of accounts that has purchased the app, it'll let it run. If not, it blocks it from running or limits it to its free functions.
\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
Reply
\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
Reply
post #209 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by guch20 View Post

Android isn't a smartphone either, it's an operating system; just as iOS is an operating system. Seems if we're going to be talking about which operating systems dominates in the "units sold" department, we should compare operating system to operating system.

[] So either compare mobile OS to mobile OS sales by combining iPad, iPod, and iPhone sales against everything running Android, or compare hardware manufacturer product to hardware manufacturer product, which in this case would be Google's Nexus One vs. Apple's iPhone.

Agreed. I envision also that, in a couple of years, voice calling as we know it is going to start a slow decline, paced by the speed of deployment and adoption of 3G-enabled (and 4G and so on) and communications-ready devices such as Apple is now ready to start deploying. When iPod Touch gets its 3G micro-SIM like the iPad and both get their front-facing camera, and as FaceTime inevitably becomes widespread, the lines between iPhone/iPod/iPad will start to blur, and in a few years they'll be a single product line (or maybe two, with functions that we maybe don't even dream of) only with different sizes/form factors and extra hardware specs for catering to slightly different customer needs and price-points. Just like Macs are today: varying sizes and shapes and qualities but all serving the same OS and mostly performing the same main functions.
post #210 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by guch20 View Post

Not that I doubt your numbers, but I'd have to see it broken down by an honest, impartial party before I believe any sales figures for either side.

See solipsism's math based on Apple's reporting. I might even be overly-generous assuming 22 million iDevices sold per quarter. That would assume every iPod sold was an iPod Touch.

I think there's a solid possibility that Android might just beat iPhone 4's launch quarter results. Though, realistically, I expect a few quarters of horse trading before Android definitively grabs the crown. But so far, Android has put up an impressive performance. The've risen to number one in the US a full 18 months before most had predicted it would happen. And producing 900%+ increase in global market share in the smartphone market, in one year is no small feat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guch20 View Post

However, even if the numbers show that Android devices are only selling 50,000 per month, the fact remains that Apple is the only company manufacturing iOS devices, so the time will come when Android devices are in more hands than iOS devices, simply because there are dozens and dozens of such devices by several different manufacturers. It's the law of averages.

The time will come when, no matter what set of data one looks at, Apple will not be number one in the battle between iOS and Android when it comes to total sales. This is exactly what Google set out to do, just as Microsoft set out to do the same in the world of PCs.

The more things change, the more they stay the same...

Jobs made Apple's bed and now he has to lie in it. To some extent, the rate of innovation on iOS has really slowed down. And it almost seems like they are resorting to gimmickry to sell iPhones. Facetime, for example, is nice. But a major selling feature? When you have to put out something that most iPhone 4 owners might not get to use in the entire life of their contract, you're starting to get desperate. Other big innovation? Folders. Oooh. Seriously, I expected better from Apple this time around. Where's all their cloud stuff? Where's over the air updates? Cloud2device sync for apps? What about universal voice-to-text and voice commands like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGbYVvU0Z5s

It seems to me like Apple got a little lazy at the top and thought that their huge lead in apps, and their media selling ecosystem would assure them the top spot perpetually. So they got lazy on cloud. Apple seems committed to trying to push content off the net and onto apps. That's how a device maker thinks. Google on the other hand, being an internet company understands its power and the potential of the cloud like nobody else really does. And that's taking them to new heights of innovation. For them, a phone is just a near-dumb portal to the cloud. I wish Apple would step up their game. I'd love to see how they handle cloud based computing and integrate it with the mobile space.
post #211 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

I think this leads right back into the argument that the quality of Android apps are just starting to rise. Personally, I have no issues paying for apps if I use them on a daily basis. Even more so if it leads to huge updates to polish them and add more features. I know this to be true of many of my Android friends as well. If you go to any Android forum, you'll see a lot of users asking for ports of iOS apps for the same price, so the demand is there.

It's one of those circular logic things. Android users demand these apps, but the iOS developers are slightly hesitant to go to Android because they're comfortable where they are. But a lot of developers are starting to take the leap by putting out a free version of their app to test the waters (so to speak).

+1

Indeed, the most popular apps are likely to be the ones that got ported from the App Store....especially when it comes to gaming.
post #212 of 318
No I did not say anyone was going out of business. I said Android could be the number 1 OS in the world and its possible anyone of them "can" go out of business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Are you seriously going to suggest that with sales like this any of the major Android OEMs are at risk of being out of business soon? Android is single handedly saving Motorola and Sony Ericsson. I'd bet on Nokia going under before those two at this juncture. Though Nokia would probably jump on the Android bandwagon before then.
post #213 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

+1

Indeed, the most popular apps are likely to be the ones that got ported from the App Store....especially when it comes to gaming.

Games are exactly where the money's at. Android has plenty of general apps, but there's clearly a lack of the same quality of games found on iOS. Games have always been a huge profit driver in the software world.

I believe there's a huge untapped market in cross-platform gaming now that Android's out in such large numbers. Give me a quality game that I can play with all my friends, regardless if they own an iDevice or Android device and I won't hesitate to pay for it.
\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
Reply
\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
Reply
post #214 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

How many different phones ship running Symbian, RIM, and Android? We already know how many ship with iOS.

Contrary to popular belief, seems to me that devices running Android compete more with each other rather than with the iPhone. I mean, don't the sales of the Droid X hurt the sales of the Evo(just an example)? Which makes me wonder just how many Droid Xs would Verizon sell if it didn't compete with the other Android devices. 8,000,000 per quarter maybe? Thoughts?


I seriously doubt the iPhone's numbers would be as high if say there were 10 other phones shipping with iOS.

Considering that iOS is what makes the iPhone an iPhone how could you possibly be wrong?

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." Douglas Adams

Reply

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." Douglas Adams

Reply
post #215 of 318
Speaking of cloud services, part of me still thinks that the data centre Apple are constructing, may not be entirely intended for that supposed purpose, as everyone seems to assume.

I wonder if it is actually going to be used as a basis for a search engine to rival Google. Steve Jobs' ultimate incarnation of the principle of - 'don't get mad, get even' - vis a vis Googles encroachment upon their turf with Android.

The lack of obvious hiring of people with relevant expertise would tend to argue against this, but neither have I seen any evidence of hiring of staff with cloud computing expertise.

The whole operation is a very deep secret and I suspect it's true function will both hurt Google and profit Apple.

In other news, Google say they are activating 200,000 Android devices per day. That's around 71 million per year.
post #216 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

... Where's all their cloud stuff? Where's over the air updates? Cloud2device sync for apps? ... Google on the other hand, being an internet company understands its power and the potential of the cloud like nobody else really does. ...

Yes, the "power and the potential of the cloud" to Google is the opportunity to get their hands on more of your data, further invade your privacy, and add to their e-dossier on you. Why should Apple implement something on iOS that helps Google violate customers privacy? And does anyone really still trust Google after their hypocritical sellout on net neutrality?
post #217 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

No I did not say anyone was going out of business. I said Android could be the number 1 OS in the world and its possible anyone of them "can" go out of business.

Right, just like any number of Windows PC manufacturers have gone out of business.
post #218 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Jobs made Apple's bed and now he has to lie in it. To some extent, the rate of innovation on iOS has really slowed down. And it almost seems like they are resorting to gimmickry to sell iPhones. Facetime, for example, is nice. But a major selling feature?

FaceTime is gimmickry? How is anyone supposed to take you seriously when you write stupid things like this. And Android's big innovation is cloud services? Wow, that's some innovation there.

Maybe you are right, maybe Android is the new Windows, and Google is the new Microsoft, and the Android fans are just as clueless as the Windows fans always have been. I do think Android mostly appeals to the same type of person Windows always has.

(Don't get too excited that your posts were replied to, I just skipped to the end of the thread.)
post #219 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

Speaking of cloud services, part of me still thinks that the data centre Apple are constructing, may not be entirely intended for that supposed purpose, as everyone seems to assume.

I wonder if it is actually going to be used as a basis for a search engine to rival Google. Steve Jobs' ultimate incarnation of the principle of - 'don't get mad, get even' - vis a vis Googles encroachment upon their turf with Android.

The lack of obvious hiring of people with relevant expertise would tend to argue against this, but neither have I seen any evidence of hiring of staff with cloud computing expertise.

The whole operation is a very deep secret and I suspect it's true function will both hurt Google and profit Apple.

In other news, Google say they are activating 200,000 Android devices per day. That's around 71 million per year.

Possible, but I don't think it is a direct challenge to google. More like taking a smallish portion of google's search business on iOS. I don't think Apple has any interest in getting into the general search engine business. A single data centre, no matter how large, is not going to threaten google's search business. Googles has dozens of full sized data centers around the world as well as their untold number of secret drive and drop shipping container data centres. Even MS is believed to have about half as many data centers operating and they were expected to bring about 50% more online this year. Even though Apple's new centre will be huge, being a single data centre just does not give them the scale or scope to compete with or threaten google.

As for Apple hiring staff with cloud computing experience, they already have their MobileMe team, which I expect is growing, they have their iTunes team and the have their acquisition of lala which buys them expertise with cloud based media delivery. They may not have as many 'cloud' experts as google but they have some and Apple has always shown they are willing to stay lean with small teams in order to remain flexible, but it has usually worked for them. They also recent acquired Siri, the Virtual Assistant company.

They do seem to have some interest in search. I am sure they could use their data centre to power the Siri searches, but those searches are much more narrowly focused than google searches. If you are doing general knowledge or trivia questions, you would use google. If you are looking for a local restaurant or want a taxi, you might use Apple/Siri. It is an encroachment on google's turf, but doesn't seem threatening to me.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #220 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Right, just like any number of Windows PC manufacturers have gone out of business.

Er, Micron (not longer sells PC), Gateway (now part of Acer), Packard Bell (now part of Acer), eMachines (now part of Acer), Compaq (now part of HP), IBM (sold to Lenovo) There are probably a couple other name brands I don't recall that are now gone.
post #221 of 318
Well, here we go again.

1. There is no Android phone; there is only an Android OS
2. Google does not make phones.
3. Google does not sell an OS; they give it away for free.
4. Google does not sell any product to end users: they tried that and failed.
5. Apple sells premium smartphones to endusers.
6. Google collects and sells end user personal information to advertisers. The OS is just a data collection mechanism; the phone is an afterthought.
7. No single phone, 10 phones, or fifty phones running Android OS equal the sales of the iPhone.

Class dismissed.
Apple has no competition. Every commercial product which competes directly with an Apple product gives the distinct impression that, Where it is original, it is not good, and where it is good, it...
Reply
Apple has no competition. Every commercial product which competes directly with an Apple product gives the distinct impression that, Where it is original, it is not good, and where it is good, it...
Reply
post #222 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post

Well, here we go again.

7. No single phone, 10 phones, or fifty phones running Android OS equal the sales of the iPhone.

Class dismissed.

Umm...clearly the title of this thread is "Android-based smartphones leapfrog Apple iPhone". Data that the article references claims otherwise to your statement above...
\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
Reply
\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
Reply
post #223 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

Umm...clearly the title of this thread is "Android-based smartphones leapfrog Apple iPhone". Data that the article references claims otherwise to your statement above...

Nope. Not long ago, a survey showed that there were 60 Android handsets, and together, they, were able to overtake the iPhone. That was just before the Galaxy series of phones. So, as of a few weeks ago, you needed sixty Android devices to equal the iPhone sales.
Apple has no competition. Every commercial product which competes directly with an Apple product gives the distinct impression that, Where it is original, it is not good, and where it is good, it...
Reply
Apple has no competition. Every commercial product which competes directly with an Apple product gives the distinct impression that, Where it is original, it is not good, and where it is good, it...
Reply
post #224 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post

Nope. Not long ago, a survey showed that there were 60 Android handsets, and together, they, were able to overtake the iPhone. That was just before the Galaxy series of phones. So, as of a few weeks ago, you needed sixty Android devices to equal the iPhone sales.

Faulty logic. While there maybe 60 or even a thousand Android models*, you cannot make the leap to say it takes all of these models to equal or surpass the iPhone sales. It could be that only 3 of the top selling Android are enough. Or 10 or 20. Unfortunately, the numbers do not break down between Android models.

*Are there even 60 models currently for sale? Or is that number all of the Android models ever released? There seems to be models introduced and retired every couple weeks.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #225 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Possible, but I don't think it is a direct challenge to google. More like taking a smallish portion of google's search business on iOS. I don't think Apple has any interest in getting into the general search engine business. A single data centre, no matter how large, is not going to threaten google's search business.

Google's business isn't search. Google's business is ads. Search is just another mechanism (the most successful) to sell ads by gathering eyeballs through a free service. Like gtalk, gmail, android, etc.

iAd is a direct threat to Google's growth potential on the mobile market. One that may never appear on Android but who knows...maybe by allowing Bing Apple has arranged a quid pro quo with MS for iAd on WinPhone7.

Depends on how pissed Jobs really is with Google. iAds appear to be a competitive advantage for iOS app developers...one Apple isn't likely to give up to MS except for other strategic reasons. Like taking Google down a peg or two. Something Ballmer would get on board with I'm sure.

For $275M that's kinda chump change to annoy Google with. Given that Apple is selling every iOS product it can make, Android hasn't had much impact to Apple's bottom line.

The REAL metric is whether Android can beat iOS on the tablet side. That's a whole new market that Apple wants to dominate. Apple could never make/sell enough smartphones to dominate that market...but tablets are a good possibility.

One MS is worried about but probably not nearly as worried as the possibility that Android will do well on tablets. No iPad sale really takes away from a windows sale. Every Android tablet sale probably means one less Win7 tablet sale.
post #226 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Faulty logic. While there maybe 60 or even a thousand Android models*, you cannot make the leap to say it takes all of these models to equal or surpass the iPhone sales. It could be that only 3 of the top selling Android are enough. Or 10 or 20. Unfortunately, the numbers do not break down between Android models.

*Are there even 60 models currently for sale? Or is that number all of the Android models ever released? There seems to be models introduced and retired every couple weeks.

As we all know, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Could there be three Android devices together beating the iPhone numbers? I doubt it, but the world may never know. The fact is the sales numbers were very close when all sixty Android phones were put together. In other words, it took sixty of them to get just a little ahead. Draw your own conclusions.

And here is some bonus reading just for playing.

http://www.tipb.com/2010/08/13/andro...Pad%2C+iPod%29
Apple has no competition. Every commercial product which competes directly with an Apple product gives the distinct impression that, Where it is original, it is not good, and where it is good, it...
Reply
Apple has no competition. Every commercial product which competes directly with an Apple product gives the distinct impression that, Where it is original, it is not good, and where it is good, it...
Reply
post #227 of 318
A ton of models sold on a ton of carriers... to compete with Apple's ONE phone.

That's not winning, it's called churning out as much crap as possible because you can't produce any one killer device that can cut the mustard.

Wondroid Mobile by Googlesoft. Same old strategy the also-rans employ. Google has already conceded the Platinum end of the market to Apple, and then some.
post #228 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post

Nope. Not long ago, a survey showed that there were 60 Android handsets, and together, they, were able to overtake the iPhone. That was just before the Galaxy series of phones. So, as of a few weeks ago, you needed sixty Android devices to equal the iPhone sales.

A rather twisted way of thinking. Samsung sold 65.3 m devices vs Apples 8.7 m in the same period.

Then ask yourself, where does a large proportion of the components that make up those 8.7 m come from?

Vertical integration - win, win.
post #229 of 318
This is only the first time this has happened? Damn, I can't believe how well the iPhone sells. I never imagined, even in my worst fanboy moments 4 years ago, that it would sell this well.

I didn't read the whole article, (since reading about how an entire mobile OS is outselling 1 product is nauseatingly stupid) but could we compare all iOS devices to all Android devices? I'd be far more interested in those numbers.
post #230 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post

Nope. Not long ago, a survey showed that there were 60 Android handsets, and together, they, were able to overtake the iPhone. That was just before the Galaxy series of phones. So, as of a few weeks ago, you needed sixty Android devices to equal the iPhone sales.

Ok. Didn't know you wanted to be that specific about the "50" number. I thought you meant that no grouping of Android phones in general would ever outsell the iPhone.

But this always goes back to my question earlier of why this really matters. Sure it's impressive that the iPhone (3G, 3GS, 4) sold so well. But I don't believe it was ever Google's plan to have any single OEM partner outsell the iPhone one-on-one. Would they like to? Sure. But in the long term, I don't think anyone truly cares. Each OEM has a very successful line of Android phones that nets them plenty of money to develop the next line of devices.
\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
Reply
\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
Reply
post #231 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

Er, Micron (not longer sells PC), Gateway (now part of Acer), Packard Bell (now part of Acer), eMachines (now part of Acer), Compaq (now part of HP), IBM (sold to Lenovo) There are probably a couple other name brands I don't recall that are now gone.

Yes, I was agreeing with the poster I replied to.
post #232 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post

As we all know, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Could there be three Android devices together beating the iPhone numbers? I doubt it, but the world may never know. The fact is the sales numbers were very close when all sixty Android phones were put together. In other words, it took sixty of them to get just a little ahead. Draw your own conclusions.

And here is some bonus reading just for playing.

http://www.tipb.com/2010/08/13/andro...Pad%2C+iPod%29

Here's a bonus to your bonus article:

http://www.androidcentral.com/gartne...-androids-huge
\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
Reply
\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
Reply
post #233 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

A rather twisted way of thinking. Samsung sold 65.3 m devices vs Apples 8.7 m in the same period.

Then ask yourself, where does a large proportion of the components that make up those 8.7 m come from?

Vertical integration - win, win.

Devices, not smartphones and not small limites product lineup all using the same components. How many of those 65.3M Samsung phones have 802.11n or Categpry 5 HSUPA or even the same high-end display panel type?

It's a very different world when you wait to see what aging components have been stockpiled before you design you phone than one where are designing and telling your manufacturing partner what to make.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #234 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

I didn't read the whole article, (since reading about how an entire mobile OS is outselling 1 product is nauseatingly stupid)...

Ditto! Cut to the end and saw what needed to be said had already been said. At best, you can maybe say Apple is selling 2 devices, but even then, they are virtually the same thing.
post #235 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

A ton of models sold on a ton of carriers... to compete with Apple's ONE phone.

That's not winning, it's called churning out as much crap as possible because you can't produce any one killer device that can cut the mustard.

Wondroid Mobile by Googlesoft. Same old strategy the also-rans employ. Google has already conceded the Platinum end of the market to Apple, and then some.

Its not winning, but it's not losing either. The software is made by Google. Its mostly buggy, sloppy, with a typical unreliable google beta feel to it. The hardware is made by the lowest bidders, each model more of a piece of junk than the next.

None of that even has a prayer of adding up to what Apple does with the iPhone, but no one expects it to. Google knows there is a bigger market of people who buy something other than an iPhone, than there ever will be for the second place spot.

Just like it has always been for pcs. Apple will make the best, and someone else will make something for everyone else, who don't care or know better.
post #236 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

A ton of models sold on a ton of carriers... to compete with Apple's ONE phone.

That's not winning, it's called churning out as much crap as possible because you can't produce any one killer device that can cut the mustard.

Wondroid Mobile by Googlesoft. Same old strategy the also-rans employ. Google has already conceded the Platinum end of the market to Apple, and then some.

Apple has always been associated with premium products. It's a given and it's not going away. I'm sure that if 2 or 3 years down the line, iOS is relegated to the top 10% and Android running on the majority of the rest of the market, Google would have no qualms about conceding the "platinum end" to Apple.

Remember, Google wants Android on as many devices as possible out there to drive search and ads. Google's overall strategy is better suited for taking up the market just below the "platinum" level.
\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
Reply
\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
Reply
post #237 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

Sure it's impressive that the iPhone (3G, 3GS, 4) sold so well. But I don't believe it was ever Google's plan to have any single OEM partner outsell the iPhone one-on-one. Would they like to? Sure. But in the long term, I don't think anyone truly cares. Each OEM has a very successful line of Android phones that nets them plenty of money to develop the next line of devices.

Now, you are getting closer to the truth. These comparisons are stupid and misleading. The only part I would challenge you on is the idea that Google does not care is any one device competes with the iPhone. The Hero, and later, the Nexus One were direct competitors. They were the Google branded iPhone killers of their day. They are both dead. It is not that Google never cared; they just gave up after failing so badly. Otherwise, I agree.
Apple has no competition. Every commercial product which competes directly with an Apple product gives the distinct impression that, Where it is original, it is not good, and where it is good, it...
Reply
Apple has no competition. Every commercial product which competes directly with an Apple product gives the distinct impression that, Where it is original, it is not good, and where it is good, it...
Reply
post #238 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

Ok. Didn't know you wanted to be that specific about the "50" number. I thought you meant that no grouping of Android phones in general would ever outsell the iPhone.

But this always goes back to my question earlier of why this really matters. Sure it's impressive that the iPhone (3G, 3GS, 4) sold so well. But I don't believe it was ever Google's plan to have any single OEM partner outsell the iPhone one-on-one. Would they like to? Sure. But in the long term, I don't think anyone truly cares. Each OEM has a very successful line of Android phones that nets them plenty of money to develop the next line of devices.

It's certainly not Google's plan and they certainly don't care, except that it would be a milestone for Android.

I do think it's inevitable that many vendors will surpass Apple's iPhone in unit sales using the same OS. If they don’t it’s because they are incompetent. There are just too many longterm opportunities for cheap phones to ship with Android.

For example, I don't see anything keeping Android 2.1 off a cheap "feature phone" that is free with contract. A device that offers some of the integration and connectivity to the cloud for snycing contacts and calanders. Perhaps working as a simple USB thumb drive, too, but mostly still a basic phone without the huge touchscreen and complex feature set. I'm thinking of a couple years down the road when Android is shipping as version 4 or 5 on the latest devices.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #239 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post

As we all know, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Could there be three Android devices together beating the iPhone numbers? I doubt it, but the world may never know. The fact is the sales numbers were very close when all sixty Android phones were put together. In other words, it took sixty of them to get just a little ahead. Draw your own conclusions.

And here is some bonus reading just for playing.

http://www.tipb.com/2010/08/13/andro...Pad%2C+iPod%29

There are more people in all countries in Asia combined than in the US. That doesn't mean it takes every country in Asia to exceed the population of the US. All Android units combined outsold the iPhone does not mean it took all sixty of them. It only means that is how many were included in the numbers.

This isn't hard. Very, very basic math. That article doesn't say much, other than all Androids together exceeded sales of the iPhone. We know that. That is accepted. Now, can you say with certainty that Android only beats the iPhone only if you include every Android model? No way you can say that reasonably. That is simply flawed and very poor logic. It is possible but you cannot make that claim honestly by citing only the overall numbers.

Stats might lie, but logic never will.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #240 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post

Now, you are getting closer to the truth. These comparisons are stupid and misleading. The only part I would challenge you on is the idea that Google does not care is any one device competes with the iPhone. The Hero, and later, the Nexus One were direct competitors. They were the Google branded iPhone killers of their day. They are both dead. It is not that Google never cared; they just gave up after failing so badly. Otherwise, I agree.

I would agree that Google did try with their Nexus One as a direct competitor. They made some major mistakes in their selling plan. The biggest one was that they didn't have any physical stores where they could put the device on display and let users play with it. Not many people I know of are willing to put down hundreds for a device they've never tried.

However, I think the silver lining in them creating the N1 was that it created a kind of baseline for all the OEMs to reference. All the high-end Android phones that came out after the N1 all revolved around similar specs. And the newer phones being released don't dip below the N1.
\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
Reply
\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Android-based smartphone shipments leapfrog Apple's iPhone