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Android-based smartphone shipments leapfrog Apple's iPhone - Page 7

post #241 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

There are more people in all countries in Asia combined than in the US. That doesn't mean it takes every country in Asia to exceed the population of the US. All Android units combined outsold the iPhone does not mean it took all sixty of them. It only means that is how many were included in the numbers. ...

Well, if these stats include the Asian forks of Android, and it's not clear whether they do or not, then they can't be relied on to mean anything.
post #242 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It's certainly not Google's plan and they certainly don't care except that it would be a milestone for Android.

I do think it's inevitable that many vendors will surpass Apple's iPhone in unit sales using the same OS. If they don't because they are incompetent. There are just too many longterm opportunities for cheap phones to ship with Android.

For example, I don't see anything keeping Android 2.1 off a cheap "feature phone" that is free with contract. A device that offers some of the integration and connectivity to cloud fr snycing contacts and calanders. Perhaps works as a simple USB thumb drive, too, but mostly still a basic phone without the huge touchscreen and complex feature set. I'm thinking of a couple years down the road when Android is shipping as version 4 or 5 on the latest devices.

I agree. I believe that this will always be how Android devices will be split. The latest version for the high-end phones, and the "just passed" version for feature phones. High-end would have 3.0 while feature phones will get 2.1.

I think this will be by design because if all phones had the latest version of Android, then what would separate the high-end from the feature phones as a selling point (as hardware becomes cheaper and cheaper to manufacture)? Apple must have all their iDevices on the latest version because they aren't marketing any of them as feature phones.
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\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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post #243 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Well, if these stats include the Asian forks of Android, and it's not clear whether they do or not, then they can't be relied on to mean anything.

You mean the Chinese implementation of Android? Have they even released that to manufacturing yet? I'd read it the announced it was coming but didn't think they were ready to start shipping units.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #244 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

You mean the Chinese implementation of Android? Have they even released that to manufacturing yet? I'd read it the announced it was coming but didn't think they were ready to start shipping units.

That's my question, whether it's included or not.
post #245 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

In related news, all American cars combined outsold the Toyota Camry.

Story at 11.

except toyota makes a lot more CARS, than the camry.

It's amazing how defensive people get on a news item.

Anyway. So what, Both platforms are selling wildly. Great for competition, good for us.
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What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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post #246 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

I agree. I believe that this will always be how Android devices will be split. The latest version for the high-end phones, and the "just passed" version for feature phones. High-end would have 3.0 while feature phones will get 2.1.

I think this will be by design because if all phones had the latest version of Android, then what would separate the high-end from the feature phones as a selling point (as hardware becomes cheaper and cheaper to manufacture)? Apple must have all their iDevices on the latest version because they aren't marketing any of them as feature phones.

Its interesting to study these very dynamic business models. Its even more diverse than what weve seen with Windows PCs v. Macs for the last couple decades because the OS vendor isnt the one making sure their OS works with as many devices as possible due to the nature of the phone as an appliance.

One reason I tend to like Apple is that we are reasonable certain iOS will be brought three years of their phones and PMPs next to (if not slightly before) they release their next phone. This is unprecedented and is virtually impossible for other handset vendors to compete with without incurring excessive costs and delays trying to do so.

On the HW side, Apple has a double-edged sword of a limited product line that allows for economy of scale and diseconomy of scale from volume sales increasing profit per unit and the potential lack of components for manufacturing, respectively. For this reason I have to expect Apple to diverge the product line at some point, like they did with the iPod. I also expect this to happen with the Mac as weve already seen this occur with Intels latest chips.

Its funny how the OS seems to be the most compared yet its really a pointless metric due to divergent business models, so long as the OS has a large enough user base to be viable.
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post #247 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Devices, not smartphones and not small limites product lineup all using the same components. How many of those 65.3M Samsung phones have 802.11n or Categpry 5 HSUPA or even the same high-end display panel type?

Well as of a month ago they reportedly had sold 1.3 million such devices - the Wave and Galaxy S, after them being on the market for roughly six weeks for the wave and less for the Galaxy. They reportedly anticipate selling 10 m Waves this year. I would imagine they will be selling a lot of Galaxys as well.

I bought one of those Waves and find it superb.
post #248 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

A rather twisted way of thinking. Samsung sold 65.3 m devices vs Apples 8.7 m in the same period.

Then ask yourself, where does a large proportion of the components that make up those 8.7 m come from?

Vertical integration - win, win.

And Staples sold 500 billion paperclips in the same time frame. So what? Why are you comparing Samsung's total sales - including dumb phones that Apple doesn't have an interest in) with Apple's smartphone sales?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

except toyota makes a lot more CARS, than the camry.

Just as Apple sells a lot more iDevices than the iPhone.
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Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #249 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Yes, the "power and the potential of the cloud" to Google is the opportunity to get their hands on more of your data, further invade your privacy, and add to their e-dossier on you. Why should Apple implement something on iOS that helps Google violate customers privacy? And does anyone really still trust Google after their hypocritical sellout on net neutrality?

The rest of the world is as tin-foil paranoid as you. Get over it.

I'll trade my supposed loss of privacy for the convenience that comes with cloud-device integration.

And it works well with my Mac too. Another bonus.
post #250 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

FaceTime is gimmickry? How is anyone supposed to take you seriously when you write stupid things like this. And Android's big innovation is cloud services? Wow, that's some innovation there.

Cloud integration is far more innovative than Facetime, essentially another video calling app when it comes down to it. And yes it's gimmicky. Anybody who lacks bias can see it. iPhone 4 to iPhone 4. Only on wifi. How much opportunity is there to actually use it with those kinds of restrictions? That's what makes it a gimmick.

I have several friends who have had iPhone 4s for months now (in the US) and a few weeks here in Canada. I asked around. Not a single one has used Facetime even once. Why? Too much of a hassle to to track down other iPhone 4 users and compel them to find wifi and get a video chat going. Basically, this'll only be handy if you can convince those closest to you to also take up an iPhone 4.

I'll take it more seriously when it's more universal (multi-platform), runs on 3G (so you can video chat with anybody, anytime, anywhere) and has a desktop client (or at least a tie-in to say iChat). Till then, it makes for nice Apple TV spots pushing iPhone 4s to couples in long distance relationships (nice niche market I suppose).

Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Maybe you are right, maybe Android is the new Windows, and Google is the new Microsoft, and the Android fans are just as clueless as the Windows fans always have been. I do think Android mostly appeals to the same type of person Windows always has.

The problem with people like you is that you can't imagine a world where people use what's best for them. I use a Mac at home, an Android on the go, and I will be getting an iPad (just debating to buy it now or wait for gen 2).

You can see everything in black and white, Microsoft vs. Apple type of situations if you wish. The rest of the world is a little more sophisticated than that and we can see the benefits of different platforms and choose accordingly. For example, tieing an iPad to my unlimited data plan using my Android's wifi hotspot feature. I know that kind of usage is beyond your comprehension. But people actually think like that in the real world. Not everybody wants a second telco bill every month for the mere privilege of being a total Apple fanboy. But hey if you want to tie your technological advancement to one company, good for you. That's not me.
post #251 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

The rest of the world is as tin-foil paranoid as you. Get over it.

I'll trade my supposed loss of privacy for the convenience that comes with cloud-device integration.

And it works well with my Mac too. Another bonus.

Yes, it's tin-foil paranoia not to trust Google, how's that net neutrality pact with Verizon sit with you? pretty happy with that too? You're exactly the sort of mark they are looking for.
post #252 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Based on this Android outsold iOS which included the iPad and iPod Touch.

http://www.androidcentral.com/gartne...-androids-huge

I debunked that yesterday when you posted that link in this very thread.

What is likely happening is Android is outselling all iOS devices now, but they did not for the last quarter.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...&postcount=219
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post #253 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Yes, it's tin-foil paranoia not to trust Google, how's that net neutrality pact with Verizon sit with you? pretty happy with that too? You're exactly the sort of mark they are looking for.

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente...html?tk=hp_blg

To me, it's not something to get so worked up as you over. It came, it went, and our lives haven't changed for the worse.
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post #254 of 318
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Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

They do seem to have some interest in search. I am sure they could use their data centre to power the Siri searches, but those searches are much more narrowly focused than google searches. If you are doing general knowledge or trivia questions, you would use google. If you are looking for a local restaurant or want a taxi, you might use Apple/Siri. It is an encroachment on google's turf, but doesn't seem threatening to me.

+1

I don't think it's easy to topple Google in the search business. But what Apple can probably do well is that Siri kind of stuff. Android's now bringing similar features on stream with the Places app and Voice Search. And Apple should (and probably will) launch some kind of local search feature using Siri.

As far as the cloud goes, I really don't think Apple needs to tackle search to have a solid cloud product that interests consumers. What's attractive about Google's cloud? It's all the stuff like GMail, Calendar, Contacts, (to some extent) Google Talk, etc. This all stuff that Apple could easily match.

The problem here though is Apple's insistence on charging for this stuff. I get why they do it (ad-free). But ultimately, as Android gets better and better on base usability of the device, and feature differentiation starts to matter more, iOS is going to feel like a nickel-and-diming experience to the average consumer. And let's face it, while the average iPhone user is a more premium customer, just as much of that premium factor comes from the fact that they are smartphone users as they are Apple users. And once these consumers start figuring out that things like Navigation, e-mail, photo-sharing are free on Android, it'll only help the migration.

Personally, I think there's a case to be made for Apple to actually position itself as a premium brand (right now they say they are, but their prices say otherwise). Charge more for their handsets than other OEMs but offer ad-free, superb cloud services (MobileMe) for free right out of the box. Who would not pay $300 for an iPhone (on contract) if it included free lifetime MobileMe? As it stands though, if you are a heavy user of Google's services (maps, Gmail, search, news, etc.) why would you choose anything else over an OS optimized to run with those services?

As for navigation, I really think Apple should bite the bullet and acquire TomTom (that pile of cash has to be good for something). iPhone with free TomTom would probably be more compelling than Nokia's navigation or Android with Google Navigation.
post #255 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Yes, it's tin-foil paranoia not to trust Google, how's that net neutrality pact with Verizon sit with you? pretty happy with that too? You're exactly the sort of mark they are looking for.

Living in Canada, where net neutrality is mandated for both wired and wireless internet, I could not care less about what happens in the US. The world is a lot bigger than the USA. And so is the internet.

Besides which, from everything I've read, Google only seems to have cut this deal because your legislators and regulators were lazy and Google was worried that the absolute lack of regulation could actually lead to far worse outcomes.

Just because you have a broken legislative system and useless regulators who can't do their jobs properly, don't assume the rest of the world has those problems too.

The CRTC imposed net neutrality across the board here in Canada months ago. And it didn't take endless telco/ISP/content provider roundtables to do it. They had some industry consultation, some public consultation and ruled on it. I can't believe the FCC is actually trying to negotiate a deal in the US. What's up with that? They are regulator. Why can't they regulate?

Government that works. You guys should try it in that great republic of yours sometime.
post #256 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Missed your earlier post. In any case I alway have to laugh at the fanboys that say they could care less about market share until its proven there is no way they can gain the top market share. Even though the past has proven market share has nothing to do with profit.

I think we all care about it, but its just a single metric and means very little in most cases, especially when comparing a freely available OS to one that only comes installed on a single vendors OS.

I dont think anyone who has thought ahead would not expect iOS to be behind Android eventually. I even stated earlier that I fully expect many individual vendors using Android across their devices to surpass Apples use of iOS across their devices in a given quarter.
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post #257 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

... To me, it's not something to get so worked up as you over. It came, it went, and our lives haven't changed for the worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

... Besides which, from everything I've read, Google only seems to have cut this deal because your legislators and regulators were lazy and Google was worried that the absolute lack of regulation could actually lead to far worse outcomes. ...

And they call Apple fans kool aid drinkers. You guys are completely delusional or none too bright if you actually believe this nonsense you are parroting. Google and Verizon have teamed up for a full frontal assault on net neutrality, and it will end up affecting you, wherever you live, if they get away with it. Face it, "Do no evil," is officially tossed out the window, even the pretense of it.
post #258 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

And they call Apple fans kool aid drinkers. You guys are completely delusional or none too bright if you actually believe this nonsense you are parroting. Google and Verizon have teamed up for a full frontal assault on net neutrality, and it will end up affecting you, wherever you live, if they get away with it. Face it, "Do no evil," is officially tossed out the window, even the pretense of it.

If you're so concerned, then what are you doing here on an Apple internet forum ranting? Shouldn't you be down at your legistator's office yelling and screaming at them? Or maybe outside the FCC with a picket sign?

Don't get me wrong. I, for one, understand what this "deal" could mean for net neutrality. But I'm just not as worked up about it as you are.

I personally see no reason to get my pitchfork and torch out of the closet yet.
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post #259 of 318
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Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

The one thing I wish would happen is a 4.3 inch iPhone now that I have become use to that size. I know you like the smaller size but I have really become use to the bigger smartphone.

That Business Insider link I posted previously expects a larger screen iPhone in the 4 area.

Quote:
You can bet your left ass cheek that the iPhone 5 will have an Evo-sized screen with resolution to match todays LCD flat screens, accompanied by the opening up of the iPhone to standards-based peripherals, ex. HDMI plugs and USB. The screen size increase is a definite, but peripherals is a maybe. Die hard Apple fans wont mind that they have to jump through hoops to connect their device, but the rest of the world will lean towards an Android device if they cant easily use their phone/tablet with existing hardware. Apple sees this as well as I do. Im sure theyll find a way to gimp the standard somewhat, but more open is better than less open.

Personally, I dont see it. If Apple wanted to go that route for the extra room with larger battery they could have done it with the iPhone 4.

They could have still lead the market in display resolution, too. At 4.3 a 960x640 display has a PPI of 268. I think a retina display for people at 20/20 vision at 12 away is 284 ppi or higher.

But they didnt. They went for a very expensive display and kept it the same size so I have to think they are set on keeping this standard for devs and users. It makes sense.

I dont recall if these larger display Android phones are simply expanding the UI elements of if the UI has been tailored for the increased display real estate. For instance, is there an extra button in a row or column for these 4.x displays?
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post #260 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Mouse [] You are correct in many ways...

Agreeing with Quadra the other day and now this.
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post #261 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Mouse serious question. You are worried about Google and Verizon when it comes to net neutrality and I agree with you there is certainly something going. However what I don't understand is how you are okay and by the way bash me when I get onto Apple for their total control of content and telling us what we are allowed to view or install on devices we own.

Well, the last I checked, Apple's iOS ecosystem isn't the Internet, so, there is no relevancy of one to the other.
post #262 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

I would like to also get your opinion on the situation.

I really have no opinion on it. I dont know enough of what any of them are doing with this data to make an informed opinion at this time. Sure, I want my data private, but I also want it backed up and synced to all my devices and accounts instantly. Security and convenience are opposites. I think I take the necessary steps to protect my data from would be hackers, but protecting from snooping companies or the government, I dont think that is really achievable unless you complete disconnect, which Im not willing to do, so until I read something really egregious that can affect my life Ill probably continue to not worry about it.
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post #263 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Missed your earlier post. In any case I alway have to laugh at the fanboys that say they could care less about market share until its proven there is no way they can gain the top market share. Even though the past has proven market share has nothing to do with profit.

You know something? You are wrong about that. I wanted an iPhone back in 2007 so badly, I didn't care whether it was popular or not. And when it debut, it cost me $600, with a two-year AT&T contract, and I didn't like AT&T/Cingular, but I'll swallow that to get an iPhone... And that that price, it sold poorly. I didn't care. I didn't know Apple wanted market share, so I was expecting it to be forever a niche product. All I cared was that it fulfilled a dream I've had of the perfect mobile convergence device. Apps didn't even exist back then. The big gains in market share took me by surprise; I wasn't expecting it, and frankly, it's not important to me as a fan or user. I just want Apple to be profitable enough that they'll keep doing what they do: make the coolest stuff.

So there.

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post #264 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

If you're so concerned, then what are you doing here on an Apple internet forum ranting? Shouldn't you be down at your legistator's office yelling and screaming at them? Or maybe outside the FCC with a picket sign?

Don't get me wrong. I, for one, understand what this "deal" could mean for net neutrality. But I'm just not as worked up about it as you are.

I personally see no reason to get my pitchfork and torch out of the closet yet.

Right, because that would totally undermine your, "Google is Great" position that you've locked yourself into. I'll admit you face an uncomfortable choice: continue to support Google now that they've shown their true face, even though you know it's wrong (but don't want to get worked up about it), or admit that you've been wrong all along, and lose face by admitting that Google really is evil (sociopath might be a more accurate term).

Now that Google has shown their hand, the choice to be for or against them is a moral choice for each of us to support good (network neutrality) or evil (Google/Verizon pact). Which you choose says everything about your character.
post #265 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

And Staples sold 500 billion paperclips in the same time frame. So what? Why are you comparing Samsung's total sales - including dumb phones that Apple doesn't have an interest in) with Apple's smartphone sales?.

Are they comparing Samsung's total sales? Note that Samsung makes phones with at least the following platforms:

- Android
- Symbian
- WinMo
- Bada
- Likely WinMo7

The discussion is about Android. A big part of Android marketshare comes from Samsung. Samsung is also promoting its own Bada, which could make a big impact.

To see a well educated estimate of smartphone platform marketshare possibilities in the near term if Samsung chooses to go Bada exclusive, here's an interesting viewpoint:

http://communities-dominate.blogs.co...artphones.html

For those who don't read more than 100 words, here's a summary from a global viewpoint from the blog shamelessly copied with minor edits:

Quote:
Symbian without Samsung: 38%
Android without Samsung: 20%
WinMo without Samsung: 14%
MeeGo (Nokia + Intel): 33%
Phone 7 without Samsung: 8%
Bada (Samsung): 20%
Blackberry (RIM): 3%
iPhone iOS (Apple): 2%
Linux Mobile (LiMo Foundation) 2%

Yes it adds up to more than 100% since it tries to analyse the potential each platform has, assumes all phones to be smartphones in the end. Read the full article + comments if you want to dig in deeper.

Regs, Jarkko
post #266 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Actually there is because control is control. The reality is you can't or won't answer the question because they are exactly the same.

So, me controlling what goes on in my home (that's not a metaphor for Apple, btw) is exactly the same as Google/Verizon controlling the Internet? Logically, if control is control, and, "they are exactly the same," that must be the case. This was really not one of your more intelligent comments.
post #267 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I really have no opinion on it. I dont know enough of what any of them are doing with this data to make an informed opinion at this time. Sure, I want my data private, but I also want it backed up and synced to all my devices and accounts instantly. Security and convenience are opposites. I think I take the necessary steps to protect my data from would be hackers, but protecting from snooping companies or the government, I dont think that is really achievable unless you complete disconnect, which Im not willing to do, so until I read something really egregious that can affect my life Ill probably continue to not worry about it.

This is exactly what I'm trying to get across to mouse. That if you want to be connected to all your friends in the digital world, that you have to accept some level of loss to your privacy. And to hold yourself accountable for the information you give access to.

If you accept that Google has access to the information you provided, but you make sure that nothing truly damaging is being freely shared, then you can generally move on with life.
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post #268 of 318
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Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

This is exactly what I'm trying to get across to mouse. That if you want to be connected to all your friends in the digital world, that you have to accept some level of loss to your privacy. And to hold yourself accountable for the information you give access to.

If you accept that Google has access to the information you provided, but you make sure that nothing truly damaging is being freely shared, then you can generally move on with life.

This is just BS, how can people be "accountable for the information you give access to," when most of the time they either don't know, or those who gain access are deceptive about what they are doing with it. That's like saying a patient can give informed consent just by being told that they need surgery. And, how much of this information is knowingly provided, as opposed to simply taken or collected?

There is a way to be connected to your friends and not have to give up your privacy. That way is to make Google's entire business model illegal. Privacy equals freedom. Without one, you do not have the other.
post #269 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Right, because that would totally undermine your, "Google is Great" position that you've locked yourself into. I'll admit you face an uncomfortable choice: continue to support Google now that they've shown their true face, even though you know it's wrong (but don't want to get worked up about it), or admit that you've been wrong all along, and lose face by admitting that Google really is evil (sociopath might be a more accurate term).

Now that Google has shown their hand, the choice to be for or against them is a moral choice for each of us to support good (network neutrality) or evil (Google/Verizon pact). Which you choose says everything about your character.

For my "uncomfortable" choice, I choose to continue to support Google. Every company has its "evils" and that's a given you have to accept. Even Apple is not immune from this. Assigning "evilness" and condemning a company based on morals alone is shaky ground. Who's to say that your definition of moral is any better or worse than my definition?

For me personally, Google has done more "good" than "evil" and made my life a lot easier, which is why I will continue to support them. If that makes you see my character as "morally corrupt", then so be it. To me, you're just an random name tag on an internet forum.

I believe Jetz said it best that you only see things only in black and white.
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post #270 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

This is just BS, how can people be "accountable for the information you give access to," when most of the time they either don't know, or those who gain access are deceptive about what they are doing with it. That's like saying a patient can give informed consent just by being told that they need surgery. And, how much of this information is knowingly provided, as opposed to simply taken or collected?

There is a way to be connected to your friends and not have to give up your privacy. That way is to make Google's entire business model illegal. Privacy equals freedom. Without one, you do not have the other.

So you're proposing that no one be held accountable for their own actions? That we should completely trust the other end to keep our information secure?

You post is actually supporting my argument more than refuting it. There are a lot of people out there that will try to get information from you. But it's up to the user to decide whether or not it belongs there in the first place or if the request coming from the other side makes sense.

If you take the precautions for that piece of infomation to not be available to be shared, then most likely it never will be. If you keep all your private information on an external hard drive and don't make it available online, then chances are good that it won't find its way there. Some one would have to physically break into your house and steal the drive, which means that they were going for it in the first place.

Like solipsism said, to guarantee 100% that all your information is kept private, you will have to completely disconnect from the world at large. You give out all your information to all kinds of government agencies all the time. Any one of them can get hacked or the files misplaced or an employee decides to sell it to someone.

By your logic, every single company that has anything to do with the internet has to be made illegal and taken offline, as they all collect information from you on some level. Including Apple, which you seem to hold on a high pedestal and give exception to.
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\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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post #271 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

For my "uncomfortable" choice, I choose to continue to support Google. Every company has its "evils" and that's a given you have to accept. Even Apple is not immune from this. Assigning "evilness" and condemning a company based on morals alone is shaky ground. Who's to say that your definition of moral is any better or worse than my definition?

For me personally, Google has done more "good" than "evil" and made my life a lot easier, which is why I will continue to support them. If that makes you see my character as "morally corrupt", then so be it. To me, you're just an random name tag on an internet forum.

I believe Jetz said it best that you only see things only in black and white.

Actually, you are the one framing things in black and white: all companies are evil, so there is no choice as to more or less evil, so it doesn't matter that I support one, because there is no moral difference between the choices. That's a very convenient framework to avoid any sense of moral culpability in your own mind.
post #272 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

So you're proposing that no one be held accountable for their own actions? That we should completely trust the other end to keep our information secure?

You post is actually supporting my argument more than refuting it. There are a lot of people out there that will try to get information from you. But it's up to the user to decide whether or not it belongs there in the first place or if the request coming from the other side makes sense.

If you take the precautions for that piece of infomation to not be available to be shared, then most likely it never will be. If you keep all your private information on an external hard drive and don't make it available online, then chances are good that it won't find its way there. Some one would have to physically break into your house and steal the drive, which means that they were going for it in the first place.

Like solipsism said, to guarantee 100% that all your information is kept private, you will have to completely disconnect from the world at large. You give out all your information to all kinds of government agencies all the time. Any one of them can get hacked or the files misplaced or an employee decides to sell it to someone.

By your logic, every single company that has anything to do with the internet has to be made illegal and taken offline, as they all collect information from you on some level. Including Apple, which you seem to hold on a high pedestal and give exception to.

There you go with more of your black and white reasoning, combined with a dash of misrepresentation on the side. You can try all you want to justify Google's unethical behavior, and your complicity, but, in the end, it's all just rationalization on your part.
post #273 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

And they call Apple fans kool aid drinkers. You guys are completely delusional or none too bright if you actually believe this nonsense you are parroting. Google and Verizon have teamed up for a full frontal assault on net neutrality, and it will end up affecting you, wherever you live, if they get away with it. Face it, "Do no evil," is officially tossed out the window, even the pretense of it.


Did I say I support the agreement or Google's conduct in this matter?

The simple fact is that this could all have been avoided if your government had done it's job and probably regulated net neutrality.

And if you are so pissed about it, I assume that you will be writing to your legislators shortly and demanding that they pass legislation mandating net neutrality, just like many of us (myself included) made submissions to the CRTC when they had public hearings here. But I suspect you care more about bashing Google than anything else.
post #274 of 318
.

This whole thread has been about comparing OSes on phones-- mainly smart phones, but some feature phones.

Paraphrasing:

Some say: "We must compare all Android phones to all iOS phones" -- they are right!

Others say: "We must compare all Android devices to all iOS devices" -- they are right!

Still others say: "We must compare a single Android device to a single iOS device" -- they are right.

So what do we gain from this? Confusion? Anything that serves to justify you (or my) position?


Does it make sense? Would it make more sense to compare cameras (or lack thereof)? Accelerometers? RAM? Battery?

The answer to all those questions is I don't think so!


How about multitasking? Syncing? Setup? Security? Ease of app purchase/installation?

This too doesn't really make sense to compare -- but we're getting warmer!


Ignore for the moment, that all apps are not available on all versions of the respective OSes. How about the quality of similar apps and their utility?

That, too, isn't a valid comparison because it doesn't tell the whole story -- but we're really getting hot!


Stay with me now...


One of the things that sets the current genre of phones (and tablets) apart from those of a few years ago is they are easier to use-- you can do much, much more with much less effort.

Why?

Because the Apps are front-and-center, in-your-face?

Maybe... but maybe just the opposite...


are you still with me...


Maybe it is because the OS gets out-of-the-way! The OS recedes into the background and leaves [almost] nothing between you and what you want to do-- the app.

That's what makes these devices different and more useful!


So, are we trying to compare some things (OSes) that aren't there?

Or maybe we are trying to compare how well these OSes perform their disappearing act.


What have we left when the OS disappears?

An App to perform some job. And a User Interface to assist us to get the app to perform our will!

The main purpose of all these mobile os devices is fleeting, spur of the moment: GIDGO -- (Get In; Do it; Get Out)!


How easy that GIDGO is accomplished is the User Experience.


To my mind the User Experience is the thing that makes sense to compare.

Sure, the OS (and its disappearing act), skins, multitasking, widgets, folders, and the quality of the app all contribute to the User Experience.


But the acid test is: can I pick up a device and do my thing: GIDGO with no lengthy training or experimentation. It should be as easy as: say, driving a different make/model rental car, or using a new coffee maker!

,
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
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"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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post #275 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I really have no opinion on it. I dont know enough of what any of them are doing with this data to make an informed opinion at this time. Sure, I want my data private, but I also want it backed up and synced to all my devices and accounts instantly. Security and convenience are opposites. I think I take the necessary steps to protect my data from would be hackers, but protecting from snooping companies or the government, I dont think that is really achievable unless you complete disconnect, which Im not willing to do, so until I read something really egregious that can affect my life Ill probably continue to not worry about it.

A reasonable opinion in line with most of the sane world...except for anonymouse who thinks there's men in black, sent by Google, waiting for him around the corner....
post #276 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Did I say I support the agreement or Google's conduct in this matter? ...

Well, do you or don't you? And what's with the distinction of, "conduct in this matter"?

If you support them in any way, you support their, "conduct in this matter."
post #277 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I dont recall if these larger display Android phones are simply expanding the UI elements of if the UI has been tailored for the increased display real estate. For instance, is there an extra button in a row or column for these 4.x displays?

Usually, yes. That's why the screen real estate is so valuable to some. Most widgets are two lines and 4 icon spaces across or single line and 4 spaces across or 4 icons spaces squares. And most phones are 4 icons and by 4 icons across. This means 2 of the medium sized widgets on each page. That extra size usually gives you an extra line which means two medium sized widgets and a line of icons or another one line widget.

I would have loves that on my Nexus One where I put my facebook, calendar and task list widget on the same homescreen, but would have loved the extra row to put some related icons there. Same constraint on the main homescreen where I put on Beautiful Widgets' weather clock and then have only two rows for widgets which means some stuff I use regularly gets bumped to another homescreen.
post #278 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

A reasonable opinion in line with most of the sane world...except for anonymouse who thinks there's men in black, sent by Google, waiting for him around the corner....

Yes, that's the answer, caricature the people on the opposite side of the question from you. Sorry, that doesn't absolve you of moral culpability if you support them in any way.
post #279 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Well, do you or don't you? And what's with the distinction of, "conduct in this matter"?

If you support them in any way, you support their, "conduct in this matter."

I haven't read enough to know either way. Whatever, I've read thus far seems to say they'd put together this deal because of the current deadlock you guys have down there and Google's apparent fears that if they didn't strike a deal something worse might emerge (more carrier dominant policies?). I don't know how much truth there is or is not to Google's assertion. If Google's fears are warranted then this deal might be decent. If Google's blowing smoke than the deal does indeed suck. I'd like to know before I can have an informed opinion (though broadly speaking, I really couldn't care all that much because I like the Canadian approach...and what happens here impacts me a lot more). Seems to me that if you solve the deadlock you don't need this deal. If people like you care so much, why is there even mediation by the FCC? I don't know how your system works, but maybe you can enlighten me as to why the US government can't legislate net neutrality into place like many other countries have done? Why does Google feel compelled to do the job of your legislators in the first place? Isn't that a more important question? Seems to be a trend in the US lately of industries writing their own rules.

Either way, isn't this just a proposed idea that would require implementation and oversight by your governmental authorities. I really don't get why people are so worked up over a suggestion on which way to go forward. If you don't like it, why can't you get the FCC to kill it? They put forward a proposed solution. Nobody says it has to be the one that's implemented right?
post #280 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

I haven't read enough to know either way. Whatever, I've read thus far seems to say they'd put together this deal because of the current deadlock you guys have down there and Google's apparent fears that if they didn't strike a deal something worse might emerge (more carrier dominant policies?). I don't know how much truth there is or is not to Google's assertion. I'd like to know before I can have an informed opinion (though broadly speaking, I really couldn't care all that much because I like the Canadian approach...and what happens here impacts me a lot more). Seems to me that if you solve the deadlock you don't need this deal. If people like you care so much, why is there even mediation by the FCC? I don't know how your system works, but maybe you can enlighten me as to why the US government can't legislate net neutrality into place like many other countries have done? Why does Google feel compelled to do the job of your legislators in the first place?

Either way, isn't this just a proposed idea that would require implementation and oversight by your governmental authorities. I really don't get why people are so worked up over a suggestion on which way to go forward. If you don't like it, why can't you get the FCC to kill it?

What a cop out. Seems that, based on your comments, all you've read so far is what Google has to say on the matter, which is pure BS. You're either for net neutrality or you aren't, and the Google/Verizon pact isn't net neutrality, so you are either for it or against it. A lot of words to dodge the question doesn't make it go away.
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