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One third of iPhone owners waiting for Verizon to upgrade - Page 2

post #41 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbonner View Post

It will be interesting to see if AT&T customers make the switch in the same numbers that are complaining.

I remember all the people that said the iPhone was too expensive, then the $99 version came out and not many folks bought it, or not as many people at they thought.

The kinder, gentler AT&T may have changed their logo but has destroyed their brand loyalty with me. I don't care if I have to pay to get out of my contract.

Verizon knows how to stay in front of the curve with technology - FIOS. AT&T only updates their technology when it's too late.
post #42 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sector7G View Post

As an AT&T employee i personally cant wait to see iphone on Verizon so we can off load most of these whiners and get the network back.

Um, excuse me. When exactly did AT&T "have" the network? They have always sucked.

If you are truly an AT&T employee, you must deal with customers every day who want to punch you out. My sympathies.
post #43 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by BreLee7777 View Post

I think Apple really needs Verizon in the long run. With Android gaining ground every day, I think Apple needs as wide a base and with the help of as many carriers as possible. Here's an article that seems to point out the advantages of many vendors versus 1 issue:

http://hubpages.com/hub/iPhone-versu...-Leap-Frogging

Quote:
Originally Posted by bstring View Post

Apple's sales in 2Q 2010 represented 22% of US smart phone market share while Android's was 34%. This is all due to Apple's decision to go with an exclusive carrier agreement. Android would have never taken hold had the iPhone been available on multiple carriers. Once the iPhone is available elsewhere, I'm afraid it will be too late to convert Android owners.

Apple is comfortable with 15-20% market share earning record profit per customer and this is where they will likely be in another year.

Seriously, what's this focus on marketshare over profits? Why would Apple care if a free OS is on more phones than iOS if Apple's focus on iOS is to sell HW. The other vendors using Android are doing so because they had no choice if they wanted to compete. Why does seem to baffle some people?

What was Moto's smartphone profiles last quarter? What were LG's and HTC's? Apple is the most profitable handset vendor in the world. Not just smartphones or "per customer" but for the entire world's market for selling cellular phones of any kind. They are they moat profitable PC maker, too. So tell me why it matters to them if they lead in profits?

If we are going to measure cellphone OSes why not mention the top dog, Symbian? Because feature phones arent smartphonea? But if it's all about marketshare then it shouldn't matter where it's installed. See how this metric is pointless as stated?

I guarantee that Android OS will eventually be shipped on MORE phones from a single carrier in a quarter than Apple will ship across on all its current and future iOS device types. The odds are too great. For example, Dell ships more copies of Windows on their PCs than Apple does in a quarter, and that's a paid OS. Just wait until Android strts getting used on "free" phones.
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post #44 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post

If 1/3 of the ATT customers all bailed and went to Verizon, then ATT service would rock; and I'd still be the one with a "world phone".

Your so-called world phone would do you little good with sky-high roaming charges in Europe because AT&T won't unlock your phone - even after you have fulfilled your contract. Way cheaper and practical to get a disposable phone over there. And how often are you touring the world that this is really an issue?

And I was with AT&T and the iPhone from the beginning in 2007. Their coverage sucked then and it has continued to suck, even without near the number of iPhones on their crappy network that there are today.
post #45 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Seriously, what's this focus on marketshare over profits?


Ask Steve:

Once a company devises a great product, he says, it has a monopoly in that realm, and concentrates less on innovation than protecting its turf. The Mac user interface was a 10-year monopoly, says Jobs. Who ended up running the company? Sales guys. At the critical juncture in the late 80s, when they should have gone for market share, they went for profits. They made obscene profits for several years. And their products became mediocre. And then their monopoly ended with Windows 95. They behaved like a monopoly, and it came back to bite them, which always happens.
post #46 of 131
I will be staying with AT&T. Great service where I live, REALLY fast 3G (faster than wi-fi at work thru DSL).
I hope they give iPhone to Sprint, T-Mobile and Verizon. I sell phones and it just means more money in my pocket.
I love when verizon owners walk in my house. For some reason, right in a major part of the city, verizon has a little black hole in my house, no 3G and sometimes 1 bar for calls. Meanwhile, my iPhone stays at 5 bars on 4.0.2
post #47 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Thats pretty much what I was thinking even more so when you start throwing around the term "significant number".

The 1000 people they polled where they all exiting a Apple store perhaps......

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post #48 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadash View Post

Ask Steve:

Once a company devises a great product, he says, it has a monopoly in that realm, and concentrates less on innovation than protecting its turf. The Mac user interface was a 10-year monopoly, says Jobs. Who ended up running the company? Sales guys. At the critical juncture in the late 80s, when they should have gone for market share, they went for profits. They made obscene profits for several years. And their products became mediocre. And then their monopoly ended with Windows 95. They behaved like a monopoly, and it came back to bite them, which always happens.

very nice...straight from the SJ.........

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post #49 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadash View Post

Ask Steve:

Once a company devises a great product, he says, it has a monopoly in that realm, and concentrates less on innovation than protecting its turf. The Mac user interface was a 10-year monopoly, says Jobs. Who ended up running the company? Sales guys. At the critical juncture in the late 80s, when they should have gone for market share, they went for profits. They made obscene profits for several years. And their products became mediocre. And then their monopoly ended with Windows 95. They behaved like a monopoly, and it came back to bite them, which always happens.

What's that from?
post #50 of 131
I'd like to give you guys a treat today:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxBchGCjRK8

30 seconds you'll enjoy if you love the iPhone.
post #51 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonQ13 View Post

What's that from?

http://web.archive.org/web/200402012...d=4052227&p1=0

Courtesy of daringfireball.net.
post #52 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadash View Post

Ask Steve:

Once a company devises a great product, he says, it has a monopoly in that realm, and concentrates less on innovation than protecting its turf. The Mac user interface was a 10-year monopoly, says Jobs. Who ended up running the company? Sales guys. At the critical juncture in the late 80s, when they should have gone for market share, they went for profits. They made obscene profits for several years. And their products became mediocre. And then their monopoly ended with Windows 95. They behaved like a monopoly, and it came back to bite them, which always happens.

Youre using that out of context. The main focus of all publicly traded companies are profits. Jobs statements are a way to ensure and continue to get profits by expanding, not by acting like a monopoly. There has to be a tipping first, hence his use of the word conjecture.

Do you really think that making a cheap phone that can be completely subsidized by the carrier or costs under $99 without a contract is what Jobs was talking about? If so, then why arent tehy doign that? Do you really think Dell going for marketshare with profit-less $400 PCs is what Jobs was talking about? If so, then why arent they doing this?

The reason is the tipping point for tier takes time. Think of it as a pyramid with expensive, low volume items on top and inexpensive, high volume items on the bottom. Also think of each price segment as a different market. Lets say its separated by $100 with the Macs. As weve seen with the Macs their notebook market reached its tipping point a year or two ago and they all dropped in price. They average selling price is now lower than it was but they are also making more profits from it. This is NOT a guaranteed causal relationship and raising the price isnt as easy as dropping it.

With the iPhone, there are a couple things that can happen. Apple can make a cheaper iPhone, but the carriers might still subsidize it the same way pocket the difference, or Apple can make additional iPhone models. Note that they did this with the iPod only after the tipping point had been reached.

Apple does look to be nearing that tipping point, but its hard to tell as the iPhone is still sold out for weeks and still not released on all viable countries yet. Again, if the magical answer is marketshare then they wouldnt have released to a single carrier in the US, they would have released a CDMA version along with a GSM version, they would have released many models at once to cover all types of buyers, and all the handset vendors that are now focusing on a select high-end models would never have had to follow Apples lead.
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post #53 of 131
I have written my own take on the AT&T exclusivity issue here:

"It's just like the iPhone"
post #54 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty321 View Post

I have written my own take on the AT&T exclusivity issue here:

"It's just like the iPhone"

Great article.

I just read it on my new to me 3GS because I will not but an iPhone that locks me into AT&T for another 2 years. I could have spent that$ on a new iPhone, but Apple lost out because they stubbornly stick with an awful carrier.

If these rumors aren't true and there is no alternate carrier iPhone then I'll eventually jump to Android. I know it's not the same, and they just ripped off iphone, but it's good enough.
post #55 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty321 View Post

I have written my own take on the AT&T exclusivity issue here:

"It's just like the iPhone"

The funny thing is that a lot of people saying their phone is better than an iPhone (well some to say the least) own cheap, crappy, $50 phones running android that I literally cringe when I look at the UI. That's a good article and I agree that apple is losing mind share because of AT&T obviously in the US, and the "antenna issue" practically worldwide. the only time I have ever "experienced" the problem is on YouTube videos and trolls ranting on forums such as appleinsider an gizmodo telling everyone that there "$50 android phone is way better than your s***y $800 iPhone!" and that everyone who disagrees with them is a 'fanboi' who's opinion is 'wrong'
post #56 of 131
I don't even HAVE a smart phone and will not buy one unless I can use it with a smarter carrier than AT&T.

Being a generally satisfied Verizion FiOS (TV, Internet, and landline) customer I hope to be able to (re)negotiate a good package deal
post #57 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

This is really funny. Verizon in Q1 2010 had 92.8 million customers and this poll was a sample of 1000. And this is suppose to mean something?

You sound like a teabagger. They swore Obama would not get elected and that the polls were made up by MSM. Their logic? Neither they nor their friends were ever polled so the results must be made up.
post #58 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartfat View Post

Yes, Verizon gets a taste of its own medicine. Don't you hate it when they brag about their "superior" network, and it drops calls like AT&T's? Let's bring the Verizon network down, guys!

It will be great for ATT customers, like me, when 30 % or so of current iPhoners switch to VZ. ATT's network will be far better than it currently is with fewer users. I can't wait. (Metro New Yorker with no ATT problems over 2 years, 3G and now 4.)
post #59 of 131
If Apple goes to Verizon and drops ATT as the carrier, I will give up my Iphone.
Verizon does not have a true 3G network. They will throttle everything that the Iphone can do.
Apple would be stupid to go to Verizon even with a cdma version.
Oh yeah, lets cut back on technology and offer a CDMA version of the IPhone.
post #60 of 131
Just saying. 1000 people means nothing. Report on this when they poll 100,000 people in 15 major cities. That might give a better representation.
post #61 of 131
The willful ignorance about statistical sampling techniques - despite it being clarified - is truly pathetic. Stunning even. Some of you need to get at least a high school level of education.
post #62 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by iMinnesotan View Post

Apple has until January to get the iPhone on T-mobile before I just give up and get an Android phone with them. I really don't want to switch to AT&T and I'm still waiting to get my first smart phone.

You should go buy an iPhone 3G/3GS, unlock it and put it on Tmobile now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadash View Post

Count me in this group. Enjoying by 3G on T-Mobile until January.

Tmobile's rates make the slightly more limited network quite tolerable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadash View Post

AT&T's network was bad in 2007 - when (comparatively) few iPhones were on it. The Droids have been selling hand over fist on Verizon and no one that I am aware of has complained about it. And Droid users gobble up even more data than iPhone users.

http://www.cultofmac.com/study-droid...m-iphone/52792

So good luck bringing down the network. And since you'll be on Verizon, enjoy use of your phone in places that you could only dream about with AT&T.

At least in So Cal, this is completely true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

I'm happy with AT&T and have no intention of switching - and no surprise that this article validates that the overwhelming majority are happy with AT&T. The vocal techies tend to be the most who agitate - if the average person can get functionality, they are typically happy. They aren't interested in enabling the service menu and arguing who has less db of loss....

I also remember before Verizon had any real competition how big of jerks they were. I'm not surprised that they were colluding with google to limit choice - what a shocker Have fun with your locked down and un-even Internet on Verizon wireless.

The other point that is now obvious is if/when Verizon gets the iPhone, Android is going to be seriously stunted.

One can hope this is true but it really is starting to feel a bit like Apple is trying to shut the barn door after the horses have left. Part of me is wondering if this is why Apple has been stuck around $250-265 for what seems to be forever. Clearly their forward growth and current profits dictate a higher price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post

If 1/3 of the ATT customers all bailed and went to Verizon, then ATT service would rock; and I'd still be the one with a "world phone".

I'm pretty sure this new chip will do both networks. Several Blackberries are both CDMA and GSM worldphones. Apple might even call it something crazy like the iPhone 4G, bump the A4 in it to a full 1 ghz (instead of the estimated 750-800 mhz now) and it might be LTE as well.

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post #63 of 131
51% of Verizon customers! isn't Verizon the larger carrier in US? that is a surprisingly large number, especially after reading "Why the Verizon iPhone is already too late" on msnbc. Did anyone read that article? the writer must be a little bit confused if he thinks this number is anything close to the truth.
post #64 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post

If 1/3 of the ATT customers all bailed and went to Verizon, then ATT service would rock; and I'd still be the one with a "world phone".

Actually the only true "world phones" are the ones with both cdma and gsm capability, like the Sprint TP2 for instance
post #65 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadash View Post

Count me in this group. Enjoying by 3G on T-Mobile until January.

Since 3G doesn't work on T-Mobile how's the Edge speed doing? How do you watch a movie over that Edge netork?
post #66 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomanland View Post

51% of Verizon customers! isn't Verizon the larger carrier in US? that is a surprisingly large number, especially after reading "Why the Verizon iPhone is already too late" on msnbc. Did anyone read that article? the writer must be a little bit confused if he thinks this number is anything close to the truth.

After reading forums and blogs about Apple for the last decade it's clear to me that the truth is nowhere to be found. Everybody spins the data to support their fanboy or hater bias. This survey is a pure example conflicting data that can be spun anyway you like. if you are an at&t hater you can rag on that tidbit. If you are an Android hater you can spin the part about existing Verizon customers waiting for the iPhone. The fans of either can spin this survey their way too.

The only thing that matters, in my opinion, is that Apple's sales continue to rise and profits soar even in the face of the Android 'surge'. If that's not an indicator of success I don't know what is but that fact can be spun too can't it.

Bottom line, it's all completely useless bullshit.
post #67 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

Since 3G doesn't work on T-Mobile how's the Edge speed doing? How do you watch a movie over that Edge netork?

First I store most movies on my iPhone. Second, you are aware that all McDonald's, Starbucks, Public Libraries, etc all have free Wifi right?

Second, AT&T no longer has unlimited data so how many movies are you going to watch at $10 per GB?

Third, traveling between major metro areas, AT&T has mostly 2G coverage anyway. I mean I can't even believe you are making this point with a straight face. AT&T basically has islands of 3G coverage and all the roads connecting them are blanketed in crappy 2G. No matter what iPhone you have, you should have found some ways to accommodate this for now because unless you are on Verizon, you aren't getting much 3G.

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post #68 of 131
Verizon would get my business under certain circumstances. They would have to offer noticeable savings over AT&T, and 10 bucks a month wouldn't be it. They would have to offer simultaneous voice and data and they cannot cripple an iPhone in any way. However I am also satisfied with AT&T and don't plan to move.
post #69 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

I'd like to give you guys a treat today:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxBchGCjRK8

30 seconds you'll enjoy if you love the iPhone.

Oh joy.
Thanks for making the ultimate against Flash on my iPhone.
post #70 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Third, traveling between major metro areas, AT&T has mostly 2G coverage anyway. I mean I can't even believe you are making this point with a straight face. AT&T basically has islands of 3G coverage and all the roads connecting them are blanketed in crappy 2G. No matter what iPhone you have, you should have found some ways to accommodate this for now because unless you are on Verizon, you aren't getting much 3G.

That is, of course, a total, flat out lie.
http://www.wireless.att.com/coverageviewer/#?type=voice

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

One can hope this is true but it really is starting to feel a bit like Apple is trying to shut the barn door after the horses have left. Part of me is wondering if this is why Apple has been stuck around $250-265 for what seems to be forever.

Oh, I don't know. Maybe because the entire market is lousy right now? Look at Apple's performance vs. the market over a wide range of possible time frames. Apple has handily outperformed the market for years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by myonlinelifenow View Post

Just saying. 1000 people means nothing. Report on this when they poll 100,000 people in 15 major cities. That might give a better representation.

Report back when you get an education involving elementary statistics.

There is absolutely no problem with the sample size on this survey. Unless they were trying to claim that very small variations (a few percent) were real, the sample size is more than adequate.

There IS, of course, a potential problem with choosing a representative sample, but since we don't know how the sample was chosen, we'll never be able to answer that question. If the sample is biased, even 10 million surveys will be meaningless.
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post #71 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

That is, of course, a total, flat out lie.
http://www.wireless.att.com/coverageviewer/#?type=voice

It isn't a total, flat out lie for those of us that know that we are discussing data and know how to switch the coverage map from voice (which is what you have selected) to data.

http://www.wireless.att.com/coverage...64062502&sci=2

That is a link to the Western United States. The East is a bit better, less white more light blue, but the reality is that dark blue is 3G and yes there are islands of it surrounded by light blue. Out west you see plenty of white.

You can click a bit closer on that link and pretend you are in the LA area and decide to drive the 15, 10 or 40 freeway. You will spend the majority of your time in 2G data coverage. This is true of most major freeways and AT&T.

Quote:
Oh, I don't know. Maybe because the entire market is lousy right now? Look at Apple's performance vs. the market over a wide range of possible time frames. Apple has handily outperformed the market for years.

Something is only true until it isn't. Android hasn't come to fruition and started outselling Apple with 2.2, flash support and available on every carrier for years. That was the specific point I made that could be now weighing down the stock. Here is a link to a year to date chart. Apple hasn't made any progress since April. That is almost half a year.

It isn't just about Apple. You can imagine if Apple made Macs that only worked on AT&T internet service. At some point it isn't just about limiting your own growth, it is about enabling the growth of competitors as well.

EDIT: Realize this isn't a knock on Apple, rather proof that when they produce their next iPhone update, even if it is a minor update, that it will unleash a lot of pent up demand, more profits, slap down their competitors and jump that stock price even more.

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post #72 of 131
If the IPHONE4 is available on VERIZON in Jan 2011, then some people will change immediately. Others will wait till their current contract expires to switch. Some will fall into the camp of...Should I buy now or wait till IPHONE 5 is available. Some will wait and see if Verizon can maintain its level of service with all the new customers. Many will migrate from ATT hoping that the grass is greener on the other side. Others still be looking to see what data plans Verizon will employ with the IPHONE4.

BOTTOM LINE: There are so many possible senarios to this story. However they all seem to pan out over a period in time.
post #73 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

Since 3G doesn't work on T-Mobile how's the Edge speed doing? How do you watch a movie over that Edge netork?

Good enough. The signal from T-Mobile is much better in my area than craptastic AT&T, so slow signal is better than no signal.
post #74 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Of course. But this is what grabbed me.

"A survey of 1,000 consumers indicates that a significant number of subscribers are waiting to purchase the expected Verizon iPhone 4, indicating new threats for both AT&T and Android. "

When you have a customer base of 94 million and the term "significant number" is used after polling 1000 customers I would say thats a bit over the top and the poll is pretty much meaningless.

Also to say that Android could suffer when it was just reported that 200k units are being activated per day is also a bit much with only 1000 polled.

Clearly Verizon customers would be interested in having the iPhone come to Verizon as I am sure Sprint customers would be also if Apple made a CDMA version of the iPhone I see no reason for them not to roll it out to both Verizon and Sprint.

You've never had a college level statistics class, have you?

One of the things you learn in it is how large of a sample you need to estimate the population. And provided care was taken not to introduce bias into the sample selection process, a sample size of 1000 is more than sufficient to get decent estimates... even if the underlying population is infinite. (By decent estimates, I mean confidence levels high enough to support an article like this one.)

Thompson
post #75 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

People like to believe that but it doesn't address biases in the people taking the polls, the questions or other factors that aren't always controlled well.

The poll is not proven until after the device is realized in the market. At best polls are informed speculation.

No it is always wise to question polls passed off as the truth or extremely accurate. For one thing polls are oftened tailored to the needs of the group contracting for the poll. Frankly you would be considered gullible if you accepted these results without more detailed info.




Dave

Well now, Dave, I have to take exception on the basis that you are changing the argument. You are correct that polls must take care not to introduce bias either by how they select their samples, how they pose their questions, interpret the data (i.e. spin the results) etc. etc. etc.

But the original complaint above was purely with regard to sample size. And their complaint was bogus.

Thompson
post #76 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSHMAN4 View Post

If the IPHONE4 is available on VERIZON in Jan 2011, then some people will change immediately. Others will wait till their current contract expires to switch. Some will fall into the camp of...Should I buy now or wait till IPHONE 5 is available. Some will wait and see if Verizon can maintain its level of service with all the new customers. Many will migrate from ATT hoping that the grass is greener on the other side. Others still be looking to see what data plans Verizon will employ with the IPHONE4.

BOTTOM LINE: There are so many possible senarios to this story. However they all seem to pan out over a period in time.

That's a good point. If the January release happens and depending on where in the month it's released, it's at that point where it's getting close to the iPhone 5 release so there will be a decent amount of people that'll want to wait and see what it is before switching.
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post #77 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

very nice...straight from the SJ.........

Have you ever said something, that when taken out of context, went again your philosophy? I would rather "judge" someone on their recent actions than on something they said years, or even months ago, for that matter.

Looking over SJ's life I think his actions speak louder than his words .... not that much different than any of us .... and his actions have been pretty good, IMHO.
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post #78 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by myonlinelifenow View Post

Just saying. 1000 people means nothing. Report on this when they poll 100,000 people in 15 major cities. That might give a better representation.

Another poster who has no idea of how a poll is done in modern times. Do yourself a favor and google "gallup" and do some actual research to see how inaccurate your opinion is.
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post #79 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

That is, of course, a total, flat out lie.
http://www.wireless.att.com/coverageviewer/#?type=voice

No it's not. He was talking about 3G and you pulled up a voice map. Check the end of the url you provided. Here is a comparison of AT&T and Verizon's coverage that I found with a simple google search:



Here is trumptman's original statement.

"Third, traveling between major metro areas, AT&T has mostly 2G coverage anyway. I mean I can't even believe you are making this point with a straight face. AT&T basically has islands of 3G coverage and all the roads connecting them are blanketed in crappy 2G."

From the map, that is completely, 100% accurate. If anyone is spreading "total, flat out lies" it is you - slyly substituting a voice map when the discussion was about data. Nice try.
post #80 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadash View Post


From the map, that is completely, 100% accurate. If anyone is spreading "total, flat out lies" it is you - slyly substituting a voice map when the discussion was about data. Nice try.

You are basing your argument on a map advertisement put out by Verizon with no supporting documentation and you claim it is 100% accurate? It's true and accurate just because Verizon published it in a newspaper ad? Aren't you one of those who constantly complain about Apple's advertising being misleading? Who's pulling the wool over whose eyes? You have apparently swilled a little too much KoolAid from Big Red.
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AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › One third of iPhone owners waiting for Verizon to upgrade