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Anticipated Apple TV update seen as stepping stone for connected HDTV - Page 2

post #41 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackintosh View Post

I am waiting to pull the lever on a new Apple TV but if they flipped to iOS, I would try to grab an older one from Amazon.

Makes perfect sense¡

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackintosh View Post

Amazing how two people can listen to the same words and reach such different conclusions.

That is exactly what I was thinking. I guess if Steve said it, it must be true. You might as well buy an AppleTV now because they can't possibly be working on a new media extender because you think Jobs said so.

[/QUOTE]I guess this is how Barrack got elected.[/QUOTE]
And there we have this troll's agenda. <ignore list>
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post #42 of 101
His prices on the left are way off, even at Best Buy (who buys electronics there anyway).
post #43 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by smartin684 View Post

I dont see any real analysis going on in this article...

Personally, I think almost all the responses here are missing something. All of us are earnestly putting thought into this, but it all sounds like conventional thought.

I recall something about a remark that said that Mac market share is a rounding error: conventional thought.

I remember something about Apple can't build any kind of successful phone because they never have and have no idea how to: conventional thought.

I remember a general feeling that no one can build a successful tablet: conventional thought.

Now we're all lumping various combinations of what we see, or want to see, in our living rooms into what Apple should or shouldn't do: conventional thought. We're working with what pretty much already exists. Think outside the box (gad, a pun).

A few posts here did mention things like communication. Mom and dad sitting in the living room seeing the new grandchild via HD FaceTime. Somehow, I belive that if we can think it up, Apple is already past that.

I don't know what Steve and Apple are up to. But I hold a very high expectation that it's not conventional and we'll all wonder how we ever got along without it and why no one ever did it before. I can hardly wait. This is going to be fun and exciting.
post #44 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

If anyone in their right mind thinks an Apple TV, integrated into a TV or not, could possibly replace that big stack of stuff in the Piper illustration, they're massively deluded.

How will an ATV replace an audio receiver for example? Will it amplify Dolby True HD and DTS Master and have a big row of 7.1 speaker terminals? Somehow, I suspect not.

Will an ATV replace an Xbox 360 or a PS3? I'm sure it will play casual games and the like, but will an ATV be hosting the latest Halo, GTA, God of War, or Gran Turismo anytime soon? Again, I suspect not. Gaming in particular requires absolutely massive investment and commitment on all fronts which Apple have never shown the slightest bit of interest in. That the iPhone has proved popular for small scale gaming happened by accident, and it's an epic leap to take that up to the level Microsoft, Sony, and even Nintendo operate on.

And then there's the issue of replacing the humble DVR/Cable set-top box. Obviously this will depend on content and pricing, which Apple are currently miles behind on. I realise things are a little better in the US, but here in the UK the iTunes store is barren, grotesquely over priced, and usually not in even 720p, let alone 1080i or 1080p. Even if Apple was committed on this front would the providers play ball? What's in it for them to lessen the appeal of their own TV channels and platforms by offering everything a la carte to Apple?

Jobs was right when he said there was no way to break into this market.

You suspect a lot of things but I don't see a lot of facts to back it up. The little graphic in the article is misleading however, as you rightly point out.

I've noticed this trend here lately (a la "roughly drafted"), to put these graphical explanations in the articles and while some of them are indeed illustrative, they are all un-sourced so we don't really know who made them or whether to trust them. Half the time it's not clear what they are really supposed to show. I wish the author would at least put a sub-title on them so we at least know what they are supposed to represent and whether the author of the article created it or the source the article is based on. This one says "source Piper Jaffray," but I've never seen graphics like that from them before. Is it a graphic *based* on Piper Jaffray stats? Is it a graphic actually drawn by them? Who knows?

You're right that an Apple TV is not going to replace the speakers but it could easily replace the amplifier. Despite the prices, there isn't any technology in an amp that wasn't perfected decades ago. Like cars, they are mostly sold on looks, "features" (as opposed to features), and ridiculous amounts of power that aren't actually needed.

I think you are wrong about gaming. The distinction between casual gaming and X-Box gaming is a social distinction, not a technological one. X-Box and PSP quality games are capable of running on an iPhone today and the technology is ramping up very quickly indeed. The biggest barrier to Apple taking over from X-Box is the social disconnect between the 20 something shooter crowd and Apple's corporate culture of Christian goodness.

I think Apple might win in the end though simply because (as has been handily proven by the immense popularity of iPhone games), the "casual" gaming market is orders of magnitude larger than the X-Box type gaming market. Game companies have long focussed on these stunted adolescents and the killer/shooter evil type games they enjoy and ignored the rest of the market. The general idea for years has been that if you are "into" gaming, you like those games and own either an X-Box or a PS-2/3. It now seems however, like there is a large sleeping market of regular folks who like playing games but don't necessarily fall into that category.
post #45 of 101
This is just not going to happen. Apple can't be bothered to make monitors for their computers anymore (only one 27" model will be available soon) so why would they start making TVs. Doesn't make any sense.

I think instead the next AppleTV will be more like AirPort Express. Plug it in near your flat screen TV with a cable linking it to a HDMI port on your TV. Then access your iTunes library via your TV with content stored locally on an Apple TimeCapsule, any iOS device or in the cloud via an internet connection.
post #46 of 101
[/QUOTE]I guess this is how Barrack got elected.[/QUOTE]
And there we have this troll's agenda. <ignore list>[/QUOTE]

Of course you will. You don't agree and instead of responding with arguments of logic, you're going to stick your head in the sand and ignore me. Like I care.

I would tell you exactly who and what you are, but if I did speak such a truth I would be banned, and you would miss me, so I will only say, "Yes, I agree with you."
post #47 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dambuster View Post

It's been more than two years I have HDTV via internet and I pay CHF 30 which is US $ 28.91.

As usual, the Americans are way behind on technology so in order to catch up with others they come with Apple TV and a service that's only available in America, not even Canada... like Hulu etc. Hulu is gay anyway...

The reason? Some sort of stupid and primitive TV law that forbids you from broadcasting the most interesting TV shows internationally, then they wonder why there is so much piracy... Yeah, well guess what, with a little bit of online research people will figure out how to download an HD episode for free in a matter of minutes and put it on their HD streaming devices and watch them on their HDTVs... So if you ever wonder why there is so much piracy, it's because of some unreasonable people who are only interested in coming up with pointless laws restricting and complicating entertainment.

There is something to this. There is still a lot of restrictions in distribution, and almost no sign that it is going to change with zoning on DVDs and regional licenses unchanged this year, the year and the year before that. Nothing has changed that I can see for the better. Until the content on aTV is as ubiquitous as the open internet to get the television you want it's tough to see how one box will ever do all.

As with the iPad, iPhone and this, the absolute key is to get the content right. It's a work in progress with iPad I think. Apple have shown that they want to sell devices and aren't too worried about making big money from media at the moment but they need to spend every day beating down the door of the media companies dragging them into the present.
post #48 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm View Post

NO, it hasn't. Apple dealt with it very well, by keeping quiet, then making a one off statement - "it's BS, now shut up about it". That was enough for Jo Ordinary, that plus that fact that only a very small percentage of people exhibit the antenna or proximity sensor issue. The devices are still sold out, Apple share price is fine and it's still a must have item. Apple couldn't sell any more than they are doing and production barely seems to be keeping up.

You see your friend has an iPhone - how is it? Amazing? Any Problems? No.

That undoes all of the unfounded media hysteria. People are over this now. It's why the new android phone with similar issue won't be a big story.

I don't have any problem with my iPhone 4 because I like in an area with good ATT coverage. So does my friend. That doesn't mean I disbelieve everyone else who says they have an issue. That's the difference between me and other posters here. I am willing to be convinced of just about anything so long as there is a compelling argument for it.

As far as Antenna Gate is concerned, it doesn't really matter if it was real or not. It's other people's perception that matters. As far as being sold out is concerned, that is because Apple can't execute. The fact that they are still sold out today is proof of that.

When it comes to Apple, there brand image is one of expensive toys that look great and work properly. This makes Joe Ordinary think "no way I'm going to pay that much" or "I'm willing to pay but I had better have a great experience for my money."

Now the forces of darkness start spreading stories that the antenna is no good, add that on top of Joe Ordinary's perception that ATT has a crap network and you have a recipe of doubt that might make someone sitting on the fence change their mind about Apple products. Then they head down the road to the Verizon store. Android still has a good rep right now because the media has not decided to "have a go" at them as they did to Apple.

Did we learn anything? Awaiting logical arguments about how I am soooo wrong about everything.
post #49 of 101
It's all about the content, content, content. Let me buy cable channels ala carte, and I'm in. Hate my comcast box, and it is way overprisced. There are maybe a couple things I like to get out of it (mostly live sports in HD) but I have to buy all this other crapola to get to that. If Apple can offer a viable alternative, I'm in.

Ironic the content would be coming over my cable modem tho.
post #50 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackintosh View Post

Mention iMac or Snow Leopard or Apple TV to the average Joe and they have no idea what you mean. Like it our not, outside of the Apple community, most people know of Apple as "that company that makes iPods and iPhones." This is true in America and especially other countries.

Whether they deserve it or not, the iPhone 4 has given Apple a black eye and it has hurt their brand name. If anyone was thinking of delving deeper into the Apple ecosystem, they would think twice after dropping calls all over the place.

For this reason, I too mourn the loss of the former Apple Computer company. They have morphed in to a company that cares about consumer devices for idiot teenagers who have nothing to do all day but walking across the street texting while B Bopping to the latest Lady Gaga symphony.

I am not an average consumer, however, I do know many people- including "idiot teenagers who have nothing to do all day but walking across the street texting" who are infact "average consumers" and they are much more intelligant than you give them credit for. They all know what apple is, yes they make iPods and iPhones- but they also know that they make Macs and pro software such as Logic and Final Cut.
post #51 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm View Post

I just can't see it happening - content producers are going to play hard ball and make life as difficult as possible for Apple, which in turn will make Apple look bad as the TV will have very limited content.

I think that's already in progress. The number of new movie releases on iTunes/AppleTV has slowed to a trickle in the last few months.

BTW, 1080p is very nice but I'm not sure that it's necessary. The displays I have do a great job of upscaling from 720p. I can see the difference between the two, but it doesn't seem to make a huge difference once the show starts rolling.

I do desperately need a totally simple, invisible way of using a central server to backup and serve content among the multitude of Apple devices in my household (one PC, three Macbook Pros, three iPads, three AppleTVs, three iPhones and one iPod).

Currently there are a distressingly large number of repeat purchases each month. It shouldn't matter who ordered what on which device. I need content to automatically be available on all devices in the household without holding training classes.
post #52 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackintosh View Post

I guess this is how Barrack got elected.
And there we have this troll's agenda. <ignore list>

Of course you will. You don't agree and instead of responding with arguments of logic, you're going to stick your head in the sand and ignore me. Like I care.

Will all you clowns please stop throwing turds at each-other?

In addition to the ignore list, this place does need a post-rating system. Say a thumbs-up or thumbs-down; posts with a 75% thumbs-down get deleted.

And thumbs-down to all the politics and personal barbs above.
post #53 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe hs View Post

I am not an average consumer, however, I do know many people- including "idiot teenagers who have nothing to do all day but walking across the street texting" who are infact "average consumers" and they are much more intelligant than you give them credit for. They all know what apple is, yes they make iPods and iPhones- but they also know that they make Macs and pro software such as Logic and Final Cut.

Well, that's good. I'm very glad to hear that teenagers are smarter in your neck of the woods then they are in mine. Especially since they will be taking care of me in my rapidly approaching old age.

I guess I am completely and totally wrong about everything and my comments are, as usual, wasted on the posters here. Bye.
post #54 of 101
I'm looking forward to Sept. even more now with all this hype and news about a product i would buy if they beefed it up. Which it sounds like they will eventually. A good frist start would be to put a modified version of the iOS on the aTV. Include internet browsing, the ability to control the aTV from a iPhone/Touch or include a Wii-style remote with fold-out keyboard. Man, would the App Store sales shine after introducing that.

Now, with iTunes subscription services. Well, sounds like a missed opportunity for Apple. I have the Netflix account that's unlimited rentals @ 3 at a time for 18 bucks and i can't see how Apple can't compete with that, and we watch 3 DVD's per week on minimum. Maybe by shifting the focus to live and new streaming content will iTunes be able to compete. But then there's HULU and others, not to mention most networks broadcast their current shows streaming for free as well.

Sure my cable bill is about $85 a month (maybe higher), but Apple couldn't possible work out deals with all the programs that i watch. they only contain about 25%-30% of the show i watch anyway, and they don't even have all the seasons of those shows.

Now for the future Apple Television (as not to be confused with the box). Well, that seems like a market that Apple doesn't want to mess with if you ask my opinion. The TV market is way too saturated and seems like Apple would just loose out, they may cater to the upper 10% of the market, and they may be happy with that. But to come into the game this late, just sounds like a waste of time. What could Apple possibly offer than nobody else has already figured out? Yes, integration with the computer is coming, but i've been hearing that story for about 6-7 years already and haven't seen anything really promising.

The TV and Home Entertainment hardware industry is too flexible on price than i believe Apple is willing to compete with. Look at the prices of HDTV's since 2005. I bought a 37" flat panel HDTV in 2005 for $2300. Today you can buy one almost identical, save for some updated features like internet access, Netflix, Hulu, YouTube, etc built-in. It can cost you around 50-70% of the 2005 figures.

Now, looking at the History of how Apple prices it's devices, I just don't see the same flexibility. Apple's Hardware prices (save for the iPod and iPhone) have been relatively stable in the last 5 years. The iMac, MacBooks have all been priced at a point where they have gone down a little, but not 50%. The home entertainment hardware industry is way too cut-throat on price for Apple. Granted this is a company that primarily caters to the upper echelon markets, but with the invention of the iPod and the iPhone, that has changed slightly.

Personally, i'd rather see Apple tackle the HT STB first before diving into TV's. If they charged $2000 for a TV that replaced all our components, it would have to be pretty darn compelling. There are too many video/audio-philes out there (even in the base market) that would not buy into this. Look at Bose. They have tried over the past 20 years to simplify the Home theater down to it's basic components, not without a struggle, and even now their product still don't sell the kind of numbers that Apple would need to stay competitive in this market.

Think of all the different technologies Apple would have to invest in to make a quality product. Blu-ray (which SJ has been known to frown on physical media), Surround Sound receiver and amplification technology, TV HD tuner technology, etc. That's a lot of junk under the hood, and i'm not sure how willing Ives and Jobs are to play with all these different technologies. Plus, like computers, the monitor is the last thing that ever needs to be replaced. A STB is much more likely. I could see an STB, like what Sony and Bose are trying to market (with relative degrees of success).

Show me a STB that replaced my Cable, Blu-ray, Surrond sound revicer and Game Console (which i own none since my computer works better for gaming), and i would be curious, but not 100% convinced.
post #55 of 101
I have netflix on my 52" TV but its completely useless for me because I am in Canada and it doesnt works here. So, Apple should just add Itunes access in every new TV (from all manufacturers) to counter GoogleTV and they would have a HUGE internationnal edge because they are already running Itunes in many countries, unlike Netflix, Hulu or GoogleTV which only have rights to stream to a US IP. And an Itunes plan should cost less than 20 per month or it wont work.

Negociations to stream TV/movie within a country is a tendious an complicated process that Apple has already done.

And, has an "hobby", they could produce there own TV sets with integrated "appleTV" and I pretty sure they would sell just because its Apple. imo they need to target the "small" TV sets market if they do it because a "clean" setup for "other rooms" tv's would probably sell.
post #56 of 101
Seems like the aesthetic goal of this for Apple is to have a clean looking TV without a bunch of boxes attached to it. Yet paradoxically Apple likes to tell consumers what they want, so that's all this would include.

That's not going to fly in entertainment, and people will still connect PS3's and what not to it, defeating its main purpose, which is to remove the whole set top box issue for a cleaner layout. If they want to make an OS for a TV... well that could be cool. I'm not paying $2000 for that though.
post #57 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackintosh View Post

They have morphed in to a company that cares about consumer devices for idiot teenagers who have nothing to do all day but walking across the street texting while B Bopping to the latest Lady Gaga symphony.

There's a LOT of idiot teenagers who have money. And there parents.

And besides, those 'idiots" use other apps too, like YouTube.
post #58 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by elliots11 View Post

Seems like the aesthetic goal of this for Apple is to have a clean looking TV without a bunch of boxes attached to it. Yet paradoxically Apple likes to tell consumers what they want, so that's all this would include.

That's not going to fly in entertainment, and people will still connect PS3's and what not to it, defeating its main purpose, which is to remove the whole set top box issue for a cleaner layout. If they want to make an OS for a TV... well that could be cool. I'm not paying $2000 for that though.

yeah, and if you follow Google at all, their Android OS for TVs and STBs might be more what you're looking at.

http://www.google.com/tv/
post #59 of 101
[QUOTE=solipsism;1697168
What I can see are possible AppleTV types: 1) One built into the new Mac Mini case with a HDD for local storage designed for your main big screen TV. 2) A cheap, simple device for streaming that one could feasibly put on all the other TVs in the house. 3) A device that "connects" to the back of any and all TVs that wish to participate by way of a universal plug and clamps.[/QUOTE]



All we really need is a good hookup to Apple's servers. The iPhone really took off when Steve invented the App Store, and I think that He could do it again with TV if he made it really easy to buy content. Subscriptions to all my favorite shows would be CHEAPER than buying those hurting BluRay disks at the end of each season.
post #60 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackintosh View Post


I will take your post as a personal victory for the logical point of view.


The way you hate anything Apple is not logical.
post #61 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by macarena View Post

I think going with a physical TV makes very little sense to Apple - the actual value they can add to the TV outside of the AppleTV functionality itself, is very minimal. All the functionality mentioned in this article is already possible with a reinvented Apple TV.

I think the way Apple will go ahead will be the following:
- Move Apple TV to iOS, opening up AppStore.
- Cloud based DVR with limited local DVR.
- Built in Video tuner capability to hook up other devices
- Sell cheap iPod Touch as a iControl remote control unit, including IR Transceiver, WiFi, etc.
- Sell motorized iSight camera to be mounted on top of TV - with pan, zoom functions. These functions should be controllable from iControl as well.
- Integrate DVR functionality with MobileMe - so that we can enable and change recordings from anywhere in the planet.
- Integrated SlingBox functionality for place shifting - using Mobile Me - any content available from Cloud will be streamed from Cloud

Have blogged in great detail about this at:
http://prastalk.blogspot.com/2010/05...einvented.html


That all sounds like, really hard. I think it is way too complicated.
post #62 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by rancher dan View Post

I do desperately need a totally simple, invisible way of using a central server to backup and serve content among the multitude of Apple devices in my household (one PC, three Macbook Pros, three iPads, three AppleTVs, three iPhones and one iPod).
Currently there are a distressingly large number of repeat purchases each month. It shouldn't matter who ordered what on which device. I need content to automatically be available on all devices in the household without holding training classes.

Thiy is a real need that should be address ASAP. Currently iTunes sync with multiple devices on different Pc's/Macs is a nightmare. They need to give us an easy way to setup an unique itunes server that would sit for example in "Time Capsule" and would served everyone in the house and could combined purchased made from multiple devices. Then we would need an easy way to backup the itunes library to an external HD or the net.

In short we need a home "cloud" solution.
post #63 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackintosh View Post

Explain please why anyone would want iOS to escape from the iPhone or iPod or iPad? It's a watered down crippled version of OSX. And it's a walled garden, why in the world would we want another device to have it?



.


With iOS, you have access to the App Store. Without it, you need some sort of weird third-party stuff that probably doesn't work.

With iOS, you can download apps. That is the coolest thing Steve ever invented.
post #64 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

All we really need is a good hookup to Apple's servers. The iPhone really took off when Steve invented the App Store, and I think that He could do it again with TV if he made it really easy to buy content. Subscriptions to all my favorite shows would be CHEAPER than buying those hurting BluRay disks at the end of each season.

I think content is a must, something they couldnt secure with the original TV, but having an App Store for the TV would set it apart from all other media extenders. Until GoogleTV gets in that game.
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post #65 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by emulator View Post

His prices on the left are way off, even at Best Buy (who buys electronics there anyway).


Every time I go their I think the same thing. All the checkout lines go on forever. It is inconvenient, which is why nobody really shops their anymore.
post #66 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm6032 View Post

Somehow, I belive that if we can think it up, Apple is already past that.
.


Exactly. Steve never gives its customers exactly what they want, but the customers eventually get used to it and then finally realize that Steve was right all along.

He is like Wayne Gretsky.
post #67 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

Every time I go their I think the same thing. All the checkout lines go on forever. It is inconvenient, which is why nobody really shops their anymore.

If nobody really shops there anymore then WHY all the checkout lines go on forever ?!?
post #68 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

Show me a STB that replaced my Cable, Blu-ray, Surrond sound revicer and Game Console (which i own none since my computer works better for gaming), and i would be curious, but not 100% convinced.


You need to think outside the "box".

What if you could get something from Steve that was just as entertaining as all that put together? Or more?

That is what iTV promises; no less than a complete revolution in home entertainment.

I got one word for you son: Apps.
post #69 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

If nobody really shops there anymore then WHY all the checkout lines go on forever ?!?

They sell a lot of Windows and Android stuff but they don't make any money doing it.
post #70 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

They sell a lot of Windows and Android stuff but they don't make any money doing it.

Those return pretty good profit at the retail level, its the manufacturers that are struggling from stiff competition, not the retailers.
post #71 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

If anyone in their right mind thinks an Apple TV, integrated into a TV or not, could possibly replace that big stack of stuff in the Piper illustration, they're massively deluded.

How will an ATV replace an audio receiver for example? Will it amplify Dolby True HD and DTS Master and have a big row of 7.1 speaker terminals? Somehow, I suspect not. .

I think it depends. You're thinking of 'TV' as a single market. It's not.

My mother is about as technophobic as a person can be. She has TV and VHS, but can't watch DVDs until my sister comes over and plays them on her computer - because Mom is scared to death of adding another box to her system - and worrying about which button to push on which remote. Call it the 'grandma' market. For this market, a single box that did everything (even with lousy sound quality and no flexibility) might do very well.

Then there's the 'aesthetic' market. They are the sort who have a minimalist decorating style and struggle with hiding all the boxes and cables (as well as DVD boxes, etc). They might go for this - and would be quite willing to pay a premium.

Audiophile market (which is what you're talking about) is out. Not a chance in the world, but I can't imagine that Apple would consider for even a second going after that market.

Then there's the college student market. They just need something for their dorm room or apartment. Something to watch football, movies, and TV. Probably not too concerned about sound quality, but the space savings might be important. Would not pay a premium, but if they're heading off to school, they're probably going to be buying all those items on the Piper Jaffrey ad, so it might not cost more to get the Apple solution. I suspect that lack of BR might be an issue here.

I always thought it was a terrible idea, but I wasn't thinking about eliminating all of those things. If you look at it from the perspective of the ad, it's really not so bad of an idea. I would argue for including BR, at least as an option. (I know, not likely to happen). Also, I would like to see a Cable Card slot, but, again, probably not likely to happen.
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post #72 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

Thiy is a real need that should be address ASAP. Currently iTunes sync with multiple devices on different Pc's/Macs is a nightmare. They need to give us an easy way to setup an unique itunes server that would sit for example in "Time Capsule" and would served everyone in the house and could combined purchased made from multiple devices. Then we would need an easy way to backup the itunes library to an external HD or the net.

In short we need a home "cloud" solution.

Snow Leopard Server does that. Buy yourself a Mini Server and you get everything you need.

(I'm not sure, but I think you can also do a shared iTunes file without using the server version of Mac OS X, as well).
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post #73 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

If anyone in their right mind thinks an Apple TV, integrated into a TV or not, could possibly replace that big stack of stuff in the Piper illustration, they're massively deluded.

How will an ATV replace an audio receiver for example? Will it amplify Dolby True HD and DTS Master and have a big row of 7.1 speaker terminals? Somehow, I suspect not.

Will an ATV replace an Xbox 360 or a PS3? I'm sure it will play casual games and the like, but will an ATV be hosting the latest Halo, GTA, God of War, or Gran Turismo anytime soon? Again, I suspect not. Gaming in particular requires absolutely massive investment and commitment on all fronts which Apple have never shown the slightest bit of interest in. That the iPhone has proved popular for small scale gaming happened by accident, and it's an epic leap to take that up to the level Microsoft, Sony, and even Nintendo operate on.

And then there's the issue of replacing the humble DVR/Cable set-top box. Obviously this will depend on content and pricing, which Apple are currently miles behind on. I realise things are a little better in the US, but here in the UK the iTunes store is barren, grotesquely over priced, and usually not in even 720p, let alone 1080i or 1080p. Even if Apple was committed on this front would the providers play ball? What's in it for them to lessen the appeal of their own TV channels and platforms by offering everything a la carte to Apple?

Jobs was right when he said there was no way to break into this market.

that massive cloud system streaming in from N C . is how .
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post #74 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm6032 View Post

Personally, I think almost all the responses here are missing something. All of us are earnestly putting thought into this, but it all sounds like conventional thought.

I recall something about a remark that said that Mac market share is a rounding error: conventional thought.

I remember something about Apple can't build any kind of successful phone because they never have and have no idea how to: conventional thought.

I remember a general feeling that no one can build a successful tablet: conventional thought.

Now we're all lumping various combinations of what we see, or want to see, in our living rooms into what Apple should or shouldn't do: conventional thought. We're working with what pretty much already exists. Think outside the box (gad, a pun).

A few posts here did mention things like communication. Mom and dad sitting in the living room seeing the new grandchild via HD FaceTime. Somehow, I belive that if we can think it up, Apple is already past that.

I don't know what Steve and Apple are up to. But I hold a very high expectation that it's not conventional and we'll all wonder how we ever got along without it and why no one ever did it before. I can hardly wait. This is going to be fun and exciting.

BINGO !!!!!



please post more often dude





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whats in a name ? 
beatles
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whats in a name ? 
beatles
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post #75 of 101
I apologize in advance for any repetition - too many comments to do more than speed read.
The appleTV has multiple purposes as it now stands. I use it for some of the obvious ones - rent movies, watch pod casts - but I also use it extensively for audio. I connect to it from my Mac using the iTunes remote speaker feature, but I also have my entire CD collection loaded to it in ALAC. That alone was enough space to make it worth effort to upgrade the HD to 320GB, before it became easier to plug an external drive to the USB port.
Even my too-many-live-show-ravaged ears can hear the difference between a decent (not esoteric, just decent) receiver and speakers, and most "home entertainment" sound bar or plastic speaker systems. Changing the appleTV to an all-in-one would make little sense. And moving to the cloud presumes a consistent high speed connection, something that's hard to guarantee in a major metro area, let alone most of the US or elsewhere.
What I would like to see - better integration with third party remotes such as Logitech (though that is mostly Logitech's problem to solve); ability to use a Bluetooth keyboard to control it; ease in adding storage for those who want it, while not forcing users to pay for excessive storage they don't need; take the best of what boxee offers and integrate it into appleTV 4.0.
post #76 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple plans to launch a connected, full-fledged HDTV in the next 2 to 4 years.

Absolutely will not happen.
post #77 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

Am so waiting for this. Currently got an old desktop hooked up to the TV, and honestly that is the only TV I watch. I still have cable for the rest of the family and for sports, but other then that I just use Clickr to find what I need and watch it.

The only problem with TV that I can see is that it will be limited to whatever I can get on iTunes. Currently I can browse the net as a whole internet (not just apps or itunes) and can play flash and all, something I don't see TV doing.

You can have this today with a Mac Mini hooked up to your Samsung 1080P HDTV.
post #78 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by AjitMD View Post

I have a solution for this already... I am getting the new MacMini hooked up to my 55" Samsung and a PS3 for Blu-Ray. The internet comes via a DSL, but I am about to switch to fiberoptic that offers 10, 30, 50 MB plans and symmetrical. Once I got that, I can even ditch the cable rip-off plan after I connect a digital antenna in the attic for local broadcast channels.

This way, I can watch 1080P BluRay movies, and some HD streamed content from Netflix, Hulu, You Tube, and over the air HDTV. The cable channels are just too full of garbage and makes no sense to have them. Even financial news can be seen via Bloomberg TV. Got to spend some $moolah and this is not for everybody. I can save $100+/mo in cable subscription per month so the MacMini has quick pay-off, plus I can surf the internet.

I hope Apple does well with iTV, but I do not see where they will fit in the market place. Content is the key and so far they have a hard time getting content. Plus makes no sense cutting the capability and go with 720P. So far it sounds like a MacMini Lite... kind like the PC Jr with the chicklet keyboard, if anybody is old enough to remember that fiasco.

$100/month to your cable company will be small compared to what you'll end up paying for all the internet subscription content. Hulu, Vudu, and even You Tube will all require a monthly expense.
post #79 of 101
You can add a simple Soundbar. Apple could take their iPod dock of old, make it skinny, and sell it as an upsell item with their new Apple Networked TV. It can decode multichannel audio and virtualize it. Audio would be much better than what is currently available on thin FPTVs. The Soundbar could act as a HUB for your other audio content (Playstation, DVR, BD, etc.).
post #80 of 101
One thing I didn't see in reading this thread, but which seems obvious to me, is the earth shattering impact of an AppStore for an iOS-based AppleTV device. If this device were $99, was physically small, had an HDMI port and a network connection... and developers could write apps for it... this could solve Apple's TV content problem, and it could revolutionize the TV industry.

Their lack of success with movies & TV on the iTunes Store isn't surprising as the market is huge, immensely valuable, well established, and populated with lots of players. A repeat of what happened with music isn't in the cards, if for no other reason that the content suppliers are already aware of what happened in the music industry. That doesn't mean that the AppleTV can't succeed though... on the contrary, if all the other content providers are able to run their own software on the AppleTV then suddenly the sky's the limit.

Hulu? There's an app for that.
Netflix? There's an app for that.
etc.

Apple will compete in delivering content alongside everyone else (hence their movement toward building a cloud), but they will sell the device and get their cut for each app sold. Big subscription players will give away their apps for free, just like Kindle, Kodo, the various internet radio apps, Skype, newspapers, magazines, etc.

A wild diversity of apps will appear on HDTV displays everywhere, and while Apple could conceivably ship their own line of TVs, I would not expect them to look upon that as the key to their business model... it would be more of a sideline much like their current display business is. Some people just like to buy Apple product, but the real win is that little $99 box that everyone will want when all the content sources make an app for it.

Apple will likely support an optional subscription payment system through their store as well, taking a small cut for the convenience of using their account system and the slick integration. This might be why magazine subscriptions are having issues with approval through Apple right now -- because Apple wants to move everyone to a unified model. No doubt the business models need to be worked out, but really Apple only needs a really tiny cut of each in order to make huge amounts of money. To all the app developers and content providers, paying a tiny percentage (note that this is different than the 30% cut that Apple takes for apps) is worthwhile because Apple shoulders the various IT tasks and they just get a cheque each month from Apple. Apple is no doubt trying hard to negotiate a good deal for themselves, but the reality is that if they want their platform to succeed, they need to make it attractive to all the providers. So giving the content providers options like "tiny percentage" vs. "flat fee", giving up any say on subscription pricing, and stepping back from policing content will be essential... and I believe inevitable for Apple. Certainly not all content has to go through Apple's servers, although they will happily provide that service to content providers as well.

Games follow naturally from this model just as they do on the iPhone/iPad. An A4 platform is not going to be able to compete technologically with the likes of XBox360 and PlayStation3, but it doesn't have to. Just like with the smartphone, games come along for the free ride. They will be better than PS2/XBox era games (more like Wii), but since the box is already there for other uses then having games available just becomes an added bonus. The biggest question is the control scheme, but if it has bluetooth then a wide array of possibilities opens up for those who want to get a bit more serious. As long as the basic control that ships with it is at least minimally functional then it will take off as a casual games platform. It also becomes an attractive platform for service providers like OnLive.

Other interesting possibilities would be leveraging the presence of a Mac/PC. The AppleTV will require that you have a computer networked to it, and that means there is the potential to use it as a storage cache. Perhaps even as a transcoder. A PVResque app provided by a streaming content provider could be told by the user to download some content to the computer to be watched at the user's convenience... potentially getting around issues with insufficient bandwidth.
Providing grist for the rumour mill since 2001.
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Providing grist for the rumour mill since 2001.
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