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You supply-siders are going to go bonkers over this...

post #1 of 108
8/16/10 at 6:50am
Thread Starter 
There's no way anything like this could pass in the US. Let's see about the UK. If this passes, and it works (I don't know whether it would pass, but I predict if it does, it would work), then it'll surely set a precedent.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...s-tax-the-rich

The idea is that the richest 10% take on the entire debt of the UK. Take it off the national ledger. Eliminate the National debt. Slash the deficit.

This sounds like something Warren Buffett and Bill Gates could look at. It's a much better idea IMO than giving away billions to charity.
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post #2 of 108
8/16/10 at 8:10am
I have a spending problem.

If I steal all YOUR money and assets it will solve the debts associated with my spending problem.

I do so and now, my spending problem is solved. Better still, we can celebrate my lack of problem with some nice shopping.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #3 of 108
8/16/10 at 11:00am
It makes absolutely no sense to do that if the problems that caused the debt in the first place are not addressed.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #4 of 108
8/16/10 at 12:52pm
What is really amazing is that anyone actually believes that the rich will sit still and bend over and do nothing in these milk the rich schemes. The naivete that demonstrates in absolutely astounding!

The second most amazing thing is how they are just okay with the immorality of this kind of thing.

But, I guess it's only the rich, it's not like they are real people or anything.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #5 of 108
8/16/10 at 2:18pm
The ungratefull one's will never support this. I like it. Those that have benefitted the most, pay something so your fellow countrymen aren't laid off left, right and center and have critical services cut.

@trumptman: Your comment about shopping misses the point.

Fundamentally though the financial system has to change and here I agree with MJ1970; change that also.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #6 of 108
8/16/10 at 3:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Fundamentally though the financial system has to change and here I agree with MJ1970; change that also.

Hmmm. What do you agree with?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #7 of 108
8/16/10 at 3:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Hmmm. What do you agree with?

Whoops! Sorry MJ1970, I should have agreed with jazzguru not you, though that's twice now in two posts!!

I probably thought you would have made a post like jazzguru's and so wrongly attributed it to you.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #8 of 108
8/16/10 at 4:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Whoops! Sorry MJ1970, I should have agreed with jazzguru not you, though that's twice now in two posts!!

I probably thought you would have made a post like jazzguru's and so wrongly attributed it to you.

Yes I would, if you are referring to this post:


Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru

It makes absolutely no sense to do that if the problems that caused the debt in the first place are not addressed.

What I find interesting is that you seem to be agreeing with the above statement by jazzguru (and I do also). But you said this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon

@trumptman: Your comment about shopping misses the point.

in response to this post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman

I have a spending problem.

If I steal all YOUR money and assets it will solve the debts associated with my spending problem.

I do so and now, my spending problem is solved. Better still, we can celebrate my lack of problem with some nice shopping.

It appears that you have completely missed the point that trumptman is saying basically the same thing as jazzguru.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #9 of 108
8/16/10 at 5:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Yes I would, if you are referring to this post:




What I find interesting is that you seem to be agreeing with the above statement by jazzguru (and I do also). But you said this:



in response to this post:



It appears that you have completely missed the point that trumptman is saying basically the same thing as jazzguru.

You're right. I misinterpreted trumptman's point, my bad.

Why are so opposed tothe wealthies whohave gained inexorabley more than everyone else getting fucked?

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #10 of 108
8/16/10 at 6:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

There's no way anything like this could pass in the US. Let's see about the UK. If this passes, and it works (I don't know whether it would pass, but I predict if it does, it would work), then it'll surely set a precedent.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...s-tax-the-rich

The idea is that the richest 10% take on the entire debt of the UK. Take it off the national ledger. Eliminate the National debt. Slash the deficit.

This sounds like something Warren Buffett and Bill Gates could look at. It's a much better idea IMO than giving away billions to charity.

easy 90% would vote yes, 10% no
and ask government would control spending, its just like asking someone to break a habit of using credit cards after their meltdown

funny the debt came because servicing the "poor" and not the rich

i never got a job from a poor person, government grows on the backs of helping the poor

ask germany to bail out greece same thing won't work

tyranny

then the top 10% would hide money, move out and move investment, then capital goes away, jobs suffer then the 90% have less, but are happier because they hurt the rich guys
so what do i tell my kid, don't embrace excellence, be mediocre, its cheaper, don't succeed --be less than your parents, learn to lower your expectations.


build your future by being lazy, and on the dole
socialism works till you run out of other peoples money--i believe m thatcher said that.

then when that doesn't work
take the money from the top 20% then 30%
hey take it all
I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
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I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
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post #11 of 108
8/16/10 at 6:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Why are so opposed tothe wealthies whohave gained inexorabley more than everyone else getting fucked?

You might want to slow down on the iPhone. I don't fully understand this sentence. Are you saying:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Why are you so opposed to the wealthy who have gained inexorabley more than everyone else getting fucked?

?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #12 of 108
8/16/10 at 6:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOFEER View Post

easy 90% would vote yes, 10% no
and ask government would control spending, its just like asking someone to break a habit of using credit cards after their meltdown

funny the debt came because servicing the "poor" and not the rich

i never got a job from a poor person, government grows on the backs of helping the poor

ask germany to bail out greece same thing won't work

tyranny

then the top 10% would hide money, move out and move investment, then capital goes away, jobs suffer then the 90% have less, but are happier because they hurt the rich guys
so what do i tell my kid, don't embrace excellence, be mediocre, its cheaper, don't succeed --be less than your parents, learn to lower your expectations.


build your future by being lazy, and on the dole
socialism works till you run out of other peoples money--i believe m thatcher said that.

then when that doesn't work
take the money from the top 20% then 30%
hey take it all


If it wasn't for the poor you would have nothing. We'd liquidate your assests and throw away the key... and you'd die of malnutrition a very slow and painfull death. LOL!

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #13 of 108
8/16/10 at 6:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

If it wasn't for the poor you would have nothing. We'd liquidate your assests and throw away the key... and you'd die of malnutrition a very slow and painfull death. LOL!

Are you being serious, sarcastic or ignorant?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #14 of 108
8/16/10 at 6:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

You might want to slow down on the iPhone. I don't fully understand this sentence. Are you saying:




?

The richest have got much wealthier, the poor are wrapped up in debt, prison etc so why not make those who have gained fortunes help out for fucks sake?

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #15 of 108
8/16/10 at 6:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

The richest have got much wealthier, the poor are wrapped up in debt, prison etc so why not make those who have gained fortunes help out for fucks sake?

Because, maybe, the rich aren't the one's who've gotten the poor into their mess or the country into its mess?!

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #16 of 108
8/16/10 at 6:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Are you being serious, sarcastic or ignorant?

Whatever I'm being there's no helping the likes of those fundamentally oppose opportunity and prosperity for all.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #17 of 108
8/16/10 at 6:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Because, maybe, the rich aren't the one's who've gotten the poor into their mess or the country into its mess?!

They reaped the rewards now they should give something back, period. What planet are you on?

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #18 of 108
8/16/10 at 6:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Whatever I'm being there's no helping the likes of those fundamentally oppose opportunity and prosperity for all.

I agree. This is why I'm opposed to most Democrats and Republicans.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #19 of 108
8/16/10 at 7:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I agree. This is why I'm opposed to most Democrats and Republicans.

Out of those Dems are way ahead on the "all" part.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #20 of 108
8/16/10 at 8:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Out of those Dems are way ahead on the "all" part.

Not really, no.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #21 of 108
8/16/10 at 9:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Because, maybe, the rich aren't the one's who've gotten the poor into their mess or the country into its mess?!

Well. That's one view.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #22 of 108
8/17/10 at 2:23am
But the problem wasn't all about individual debts. It was the whole banking and hedge fund system that was haywire. We had banks lending to people that shouldn't have been buying houses. We had banks lending to other banks and financial institutions when they shouldn't have been doing that.

Sure, educate and reduce personal debt and runaway spending. But the big financial system, that has brought about such wealth in the UK, had some fundamental flaws in it.

For every "lazy overspending bastard"'s credit card you cut up, make sure you take a few millions off irresponsible financial institution managers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NOFEER View Post

easy 90% would vote yes, 10% no
and ask government would control spending, its just like asking someone to break a habit of using credit cards after their meltdown

funny the debt came because servicing the "poor" and not the rich

i never got a job from a poor person, government grows on the backs of helping the poor

ask germany to bail out greece same thing won't work

tyranny

then the top 10% would hide money, move out and move investment, then capital goes away, jobs suffer then the 90% have less, but are happier because they hurt the rich guys
so what do i tell my kid, don't embrace excellence, be mediocre, its cheaper, don't succeed --be less than your parents, learn to lower your expectations.


build your future by being lazy, and on the dole
socialism works till you run out of other peoples money--i believe m thatcher said that.

then when that doesn't work
take the money from the top 20% then 30%
hey take it all
Reply
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post #23 of 108
8/18/10 at 4:51pm
How to put this? Oh yes....it's the most stupid, most immoral idea I've ever heard. Thanks and have a nice day.
To save time, assume I know everything.
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To save time, assume I know everything.
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post #24 of 108
8/19/10 at 2:21am
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
I'm assuming you've heard of most of the recent atrocities that have killed millions of people this last century. Apparently all that senseless slaughter just isn't stupid or immoral enough for your tastes. Nope, save that for anything involving money.

Hyperbole more, will you?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #25 of 108
8/19/10 at 3:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Nope, save that for anything involving money.

Not just money but removing a little of the money from the rich.

Maybe that IS the most immoral thing he's ever heard?

It's possible....surely it is the worst thing for some people somewhere.

On another note - it amazes me how people feel free to castigate policies enacted in other countries - often in one sentence with no elucidation or citations - when they know nothing whatsoever of the policy, the culture or the background to the politics.

It's quite mind-bliowing if you really think about it.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #26 of 108
8/19/10 at 4:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Not just money but removing a little of the money from the rich.

Maybe that IS the most immoral thing he's ever heard?

It's possible....surely it is the worst thing for some people somewhere.

On another note - it amazes me how people feel free to castigate policies enacted in other countries - often in one sentence with no elucidation or citations - when they know nothing whatsoever of the policy, the culture or the background to the politics.

It's quite mind-bliowing if you really think about it.

Sometimes many people on these forums don't realise how international it is in terms of audience. Bt it is hard to be informed of one's own country issues, let alone be up to date on anothers. A little research won't hurt though LOL.
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post #27 of 108
8/19/10 at 6:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Not just money but removing a little of the money from the rich.

Maybe that IS the most immoral thing he's ever heard?

It's possible....surely it is the worst thing for some people somewhere.

On another note - it amazes me how people feel free to castigate policies enacted in other countries - often in one sentence with no elucidation or citations - when they know nothing whatsoever of the policy, the culture or the background to the politics.

It's quite mind-bliowing if you really think about it.

Yes but we still love you anyway Sego. Nice self-analysis though!

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #28 of 108
8/19/10 at 10:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Because, maybe, the rich aren't the one's who've gotten the poor into their mess or the country into its mess?!

Wow, some solid ignorance. MJ is trying for new heights.

year 0: Romans were hated because they were rich and had all the goodies and didn't want to share. Jesus took a bunch of diseased fucks to bath in their pools.
year 300: Roman excesses finally caught up with them Constantine gets a bunch of fiction writers to write a book that will ensure income for the Roman empire for millenia to come. The bible is born.
lot's more ....
skip to 1920 Europe:
The rich own everything and party their brains out. along comes an Austrian named Adolf Hitler. Prescott Bush gives hum a load of cash and a bunch of other rich guys but he turns on them and the German poor believe they can "take back their country" from the jews and the aristocratic left overs.

wash rinse repeat
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #29 of 108
8/19/10 at 10:20am
Wormhole, you're rich. Give me your money. I'm entitled to it.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #30 of 108
8/19/10 at 11:46am
Amazingly, when Wormhole was MarcUK, he didn't claim to be rich at all.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #31 of 108
8/19/10 at 11:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Wormhole, you're rich. Give me your money. I'm entitled to it.

Ok, what's your name, social security number and address?
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #32 of 108
8/19/10 at 11:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Amazingly, when Wormhole was MarcUK, he didn't claim to be rich at all.

No, I am you trumptman.
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #33 of 108
8/19/10 at 11:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Ok, what's your name, social security number and address?

I'll give you my PayPal address. Put your money where your mouth is.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #34 of 108
8/19/10 at 11:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I'll give you my PayPal address. Put your money where your mouth is.

I will need your social security number as well otherwise I can not take the write off and also you did not ask so gfys
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #35 of 108
8/19/10 at 12:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

I will need your social security number as well otherwise I can not take the write off and also you did not ask so gfys

The government doesn't need to ask. Why should I? You want the government to raise your taxes because rich people are evil and their obscene profits should be redistributed to the poor. Correct?

I'm offering you an opportunity to cut out the middle-man and give me your money directly.

Why do you want a tax write-off? I thought you wanted to pay more taxes. I'm giving you the perfect opportunity to do so.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #36 of 108
8/19/10 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I'm assuming you've heard of most of the recent atrocities that have killed millions of people this last century. Apparently all that senseless slaughter just isn't stupid or immoral enough for your tastes. Nope, save that for anything involving money.

Hyperbole more, will you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Not just money but removing a little of the money from the rich.

Maybe that IS the most immoral thing he's ever heard?

It's possible....surely it is the worst thing for some people somewhere.

On another note - it amazes me how people feel free to castigate policies enacted in other countries - often in one sentence with no elucidation or citations - when they know nothing whatsoever of the policy, the culture or the background to the politics.

It's quite mind-bliowing if you really think about it.


Intellectually dishonest, much?
To save time, assume I know everything.
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To save time, assume I know everything.
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post #37 of 108
8/19/10 at 1:52pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
How on Earth can you say that when YOU are the one spouting hyperbole? You said it was the most stupid and immoral thing you've EVER heard. Intellectually dishonest much yourself?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #38 of 108
8/19/10 at 2:18pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

The government doesn't need to ask. Why should I? You want the government to raise your taxes because rich people are evil and their obscene profits should be redistributed to the poor. Correct?

I'm offering you an opportunity to cut out the middle-man and give me your money directly.

Why do you want a tax write-off? I thought you wanted to pay more taxes. I'm giving you the perfect opportunity to do so.

Nah, you'd just spend it on oil anyway.

What if the majority voted to tax the rich? What would you do, Jazzy?
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post #39 of 108
8/19/10 at 2:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Nah, you'd just spend it on oil anyway.

How about this: if Wormhole gives me a bunch of money, I promise to spend it on a hybrid car and solar panels for my home and other "green" technologies.

Quote:
What if the majority voted to tax the rich? What would you do, Jazzy?

I would comply with the law, of course. What would you expect me to do?

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." -- Benjamin Franklin

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #40 of 108
8/19/10 at 2:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

No, I am you trumptman.

Oh good. Then I'll send in a request to have my second account closed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Nah, you'd just spend it on oil anyway.

What if the majority voted to tax the rich? What would you do, Jazzy?

Apparently tyranny of the majority and equal protection claims only apply in instances when you are non-caucasian, female or of the same sex persuasion.

I've personally wondered for quite a while now why no one has filed a lawsuit regarding any sort of unequal levels of taxation and equal protection laws.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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