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iOS 4 purportedly references CDMA iPhone 4, next-gen iPad

post #1 of 54
Thread Starter 
A new report claims that the source code of iOS 4 references new hardware from Apple that is about to begin field testing, including a two revised iPhone 4 models potentially compatible with the Verizon network, and a next-generation iPad.

With a screenshot of the alleged source code to bolster their claim, Boy Genius Report reported on Monday that an "intriguing" piece of code found in iOS 4 indicates that new hardware is set to begin field testing. The source code is said to reference three products: "iPhone3,2," "iPhone3,3," and "iProd2,1."

"Our source says that the code queries the device, and if the device is either a CDMA iPhone or iPad 2, the device will auto-activate, thus bypassing the need for iTunes," the report said. "We're told this block of code has appeared every year consequently before a major iPhone / device release, removed right before launch. This allows the products to be field tested by carriers (or partners) without having to activate the handsets or devices."

Last year, a mystery device known as "iProd" began showing up in beta builds of iOS 3.1. The hardware eventually became the iPad, announced in January of 2010. The "2,1" distinction allegedly found in iOS 4 would suggest that it is actually a revised, next-generation version of the iPad in testing.

Apple always uses the first number in these device identifiers to refer to major revisions, the naming schemes allude to a second major reworking of the iPhone in testing at Apple as well as a minor revision of the current iPod touch and a third-generation overhaul. The original iPhone is seen as iPhone 1,1, while the iPhone 3G appears as iPhone 1,2 -- a minor upgrade to an existing design. The first- and second-generation iPod touch show as 1,1 and 2,1 respectively.

The two iPhone models said to be referenced in the source code carry the same "3,X" suffix, which likely means that the devices are not a complete revision from the existing iPhone 4.

Another tipster reportedly told BGR that CDMA iPhone is code-named N92AP, while the platform for the next-generation iPod touch is N81AP.



Boy Genius Report has had a respectable track record in forecasting AT&T and iPhone related announcements, but some of its Apple rumors have been less than accurate. Last year the site incorrectly indicated iTunes 9 would add Blu-ray support and said Apple would create a social media consolidation application, both times citing a "reliable" source. In January, the site also inaccurately hinted that a Verizon announcement would coincide with Apple's introduction of the iPad.

In June, the site claimed that a Verizon-compatible CDMA iPad with 4G LTE was being tested. It said that a CDMA iPhone and iPad would likely arrive "very soon." And in July, the site claimed that a cloud-based iTunes service was "definitely happening soon," but was quickly disputed by insiders contacted by CNet.

Apple's public relations also recently denied a purported email exchange between a customer and Steve Jobs that was published by the site as being "100% legitimate." The most sensationalist remarks attributed to Jobs, telling a customer to "Retire, relax, enjoy your family. It is just a phone. Not worth it," were mistakenly attributed to Jobs on accident.
post #2 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

A new report claims that the source code of iOS 4 references ... three products: "iPhone3,2," "iPhone3,3," and "iProd2,1."...

Wake me up when someone finds "iProd 2,2" or "iProd 3,2" those are the only new products that will actually be interesting.
post #3 of 54
New Apple Shit.
Let the speculating commence.
post #4 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by davebarnes View Post

New Apple Shit.
Let the speculating commence.

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post #5 of 54
If BGR has been so wrong so many times, with their rumor mill, why should anyone believe them with this rumor?

The quote can easily be made up by anyone. There is no way to say where the code came from. Anyone can type it up, if the person knows how. Where is the proof of the source?

Rumors of War! I believe it when I see it.
post #6 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by OC4Theo View Post

If BGR has been so wrong so many times, with their rumor mill, why should anyone believe them with this rumor?

The quote can easily be made up by anyone. There is no way to say where the code came from. Anyone can type it up, if the person knows how. Where is the proof of the source?

Rumors of War! I believe it when I see it.

The reason is while they have been wrong lots of times, they have no reputation for lying. There is a big difference between the two.

You can't logically assume that because they have been wrong in the past, that they are now just making crap up wholesale. They say they see this in the code and the code is open to anyone to check. It's just not likely they are lying.
post #7 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

The reason is while they have been wrong lots of times, they have no reputation for lying. There is a big difference between the two.

You can't logically assume that because they have been wrong in the past, that they are now just making crap up wholesale. They say they see this in the code and the code is open to anyone to check. It's just not likely they are lying.

Oh spare me. If they have gone to these sources before who have been wrong numerous times (meaning the sources were lying) and BGR continues to go to these sources for news that makes them less reliable when it comes to Apple news.

It is a smoke screen to blame the source. After all these "sources" could very well be blog writers for BGR just writing anything that comes to their head much like how most blogs operate. It is a blog, you know. What happened to the iPod refresh for Aug 16 that many blogs were reporting? That never happened. Many of these writers don't have a clue as far as Apple is concerned. Too much bs and not enough actual reporting and it is tiresome.
post #8 of 54
but...but...but.....never never never!!!

I can't wait to see heads exploding from the perennial AT&T fanboy brigade...
post #9 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by LouisTheXIV View Post

but...but...but.....never never never!!!

I can't wait to see heads exploding from the perennial AT&T fanboy brigade...

I dont see anything in the code to suggest the new iphones are CDMA. They could be 2011 iphone 5's with different LTE chipsets, or maybe there are testing new 3.5G options. Just because they are testing something does not mean 1) it is CDMA, 2) it is for Verizon, 3) it will be out soon, or for that matter, ever.
post #10 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by applebjesus View Post

Oh spare me. If they have gone to these sources before who have been wrong numerous times (meaning the sources were lying) and BGR continues to go to these sources for news that makes them less reliable when it comes to Apple news.

It is a smoke screen to blame the source. After all these "sources" could very well be blog writers for BGR just writing anything that comes to their head much like how most blogs operate. It is a blog, you know. What happened to the iPod refresh for Aug 16 that many blogs were reporting? That never happened. Many of these writers don't have a clue as far as Apple is concerned. Too much bs and not enough actual reporting and it is tiresome.

Hey, I don't like BGR either. I think the guy and everyone concerned with it are some of the biggest a-holes online today. "Juvenile" pretty much sums up the whole attitude over there.

I'm just saying they don't have a reputation for lying, and how could they lie about something that's in the code and can be checked easily?

People always see plots everywhere because they don't have the education to tell fact from fiction. This seems like a very normal rumour that is eminently believable and probably factual. If people are going to immediately leap to the proposition that it's a scam, they really need to pony up some evidence of that.
post #11 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Wake me up when someone finds "iProd 2,2" or "iProd 3,2" those are the only new products that will actually be interesting.




Quote:
Originally Posted by OC4Theo View Post

If BGR has been so wrong so many times, with their rumor mill, why should anyone believe them with this rumor?

The quote can easily be made up by anyone. There is no way to say where the code came from. Anyone can type it up, if the person knows how. Where is the proof of the source?

Rumors of War! I believe it when I see it.

You have a point, there is no proof, but there are patterns and deduction from these patterns that will certainly weigh in on my decision on the matter. Ive never thought a CDMA iPhone was on the cusp of being announced until now. Like the iPhone and iPad, there was no proof but the number and types of rumours seemed to scream that this was going to happen shortly. Im neither clairvoyant nor alone on this; I think many will agree that there is plenty of circumstantial evidence that points to a CDMA iPhone being announced shortly.
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post #12 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post






You have a point, there is no proof, but there are patterns and deduction from these patterns that will certainly weigh in on my decision on the matter. Ive never thought a CDMA iPhone was on the cusp of being announced until now. Like the iPhone and iPad, there was no proof but the number and types of rumours seemed to scream that this was going to happen shortly. Im neither clairvoyant nor alone on this; I think many will agree that there is plenty of circumstantial evidence that points to a CDMA iPhone being announced shortly.

I think a CDMA phone is only likely now because iPhone is now outsold by Androids and going to Verizon can temporarily win Apple back the crown. Other then that I still think that Verizon iPhone is only possible when LTE is deployed and all phones use the same wireless standard.
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post #13 of 54
If it is true that there will be a CDMA iPhone, although frankly I don't care either way (UK) that would only really make sense if it was LTE: why release a CDMA iPhone only to release an LTE model a few months later (albiet at the earliest)?
post #14 of 54
Just forget it. There will never be a CDMA iPhone. CDMA wouldn't work with iPhone OS because you can't simultaneously talk and connect to the Internet with CDMA. Moreover, there is no SIM card and it's not a world standard. Apple is very strict with their standards and they will not bend and produce an inferior phone that is not up to the world standards. Verizon should have known better when they chose CDMA years ago.

There will only be a Verizon iPhone when LTE becomes mainstream. This means it will happen only in June 2012. So, you are looking at iPhone 6.

Apple routinely field-tests various models. So, what is showing on the source code can be any test iPhone. A CDMA test iPhone is pretty much the least likely scenario.

But it's amazing that how many Verizon customers want to have iPhone 4 and Apple is being tried to be pressured through the media to manufacture an inferior iPhone that supports CDMA.
post #15 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

They say they see this in the code and the code is open to anyone to check. It's just not likely they are lying.

I'm not sure what you mean. We are not talking about prerelease plist files.The source code to iOS is definitely not public. BGR is claiming to have a screen shot of it hence the inside source. I suppose some of the source can be decomplied, but that is not very easy to do.

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post #16 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gokhan View Post

Just forget it. There will never be a CDMA iPhone. CDMA wouldn't work with iPhone OS because you can't simultaneously talk and connect to the Internet with CDMA. Moreover, there is no SIM card and it's not a world standard. Apple is very strict with their standards and they will not bend and produce an inferior phone that is not up to the world standards. Verizon should have known better when they chose CDMA years ago.

There will only be a Verizon iPhone when LTE becomes mainstream. This means it will happen only in June 2012. So, you are looking at iPhone 6.

Apple routinely field-tests various models. So, what is showing on the source code can be any test iPhone. A CDMA test iPhone is pretty much the least likely scenario.

But it's amazing that how many Verizon customers want to have iPhone 4 and Apple is being tried to be pressured through the media to manufacture an inferior iPhone that supports CDMA.

Agreed.

One model is probably the new antenna version for AT&T and the other for T-Mobile (that uses different GSM Frequencies).
post #17 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe hs View Post

If it is true that there will be a CDMA iPhone, although frankly I don't care either way (UK) that would only really make sense if it was LTE: why release a CDMA iPhone only to release an LTE model a few months later (albiet at the earliest)?

I think given Apple's track record (original iPhone 2G-only) they would wait until at least a majority of VZ customers could access LTE service. Verizon says they're doing an aggressive push for LTE but they said the same thing about FIOS before realizing it was expensive and decided to stop. It wouldn't surprise me at all if we don't see an LTE iPhone for 2 or 3 years or at least until the price of a hybrid CDMA/LTE chipset (along with the power requirements) are near parity with a CDMA only chipset.
post #18 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gokhan View Post


There will only be a Verizon iPhone when LTE becomes mainstream. This means it will happen only in June 2012. So, you are looking at iPhone 6.
CDMA.

Why can't apple just make a GSM iPhone 5 that supports edge all the way up to LTE 4G? in the meantime it will use 3G as the best it can get, and when 4G it rolled out it can start using that and the customer will get greatly improved internet performance/speed at no cost to them.

Waiting for LTE to be mainstream is a mistake. it should be LTE asap (even if it doesn't exist yet) similarly to the iPhone 2G, apple *should have*/*could have* made it 3G but waited until 3G was 'mainstream'. Many people still regard that as a mistake on apples part.
post #19 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe hs View Post

If it is true that there will be a CDMA iPhone, although frankly I don't care either way (UK) that would only really make sense if it was LTE: why release a CDMA iPhone only to release an LTE model a few months later (albiet at the earliest)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gokhan View Post

Just forget it. There will never be a CDMA iPhone. CDMA wouldn't work with iPhone OS because you can't simultaneously talk and connect to the Internet with CDMA. Moreover, there is no SIM card and it's not a world standard.

There will only be a Verizon iPhone when LTE becomes mainstream. This means it will happen only in June 2012. So, you are looking at iPhone 6.

Apple routinely field-tests various models. So, what is showing on the source code can be any test iPhone. A CDMA test iPhone is pretty much the least likely scenario.

So what happens when you are in an area that doesn't get Verizon's LTE reception? Are you just going to go from LTE to no signal? It has to fall back on something, just like UTMS drops to EDGE or GPRS. There will be a CDMA phone in some way. Also, if you are on EDGE, you can't use simultaneous data and voice either. That right there tells me iOS can support that.
post #20 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

So what happens when you are in an area that doesn't get Verizon's LTE reception? Are you just going to go from LTE to no signal? It has to fall back on something, just like UTMS drops to EDGE or GPRS. There will be a CDMA phone in some way.

as mentioned in another post of mine, a GSM LTE iPhone 5 realeased 2011 could utilize GPRS/EDGE/3G as a fallback and used untill the rollout of LTE 4G, which the phone would then simply 'fire up' the LTE chip/antenna/whatever [not a cell phone engineer] and e a full fledged LTE phone from the day the first 4G tower is put up.
post #21 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I'm not sure what you mean. We are not talking about prerelease plist files.The source code to iOS is definitely not public. BGR is claiming to have a screen shot of it hence the inside source. I suppose some of the source can be decomplied, but that is not very easy to do.

It's pretty obvious the "listing" I looked at is a disassembly of the code. It's ARM machine code. The real code is written in C (of some sort), no doubt.
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post #22 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe hs View Post

as mentioned in another post of mine, a GSM LTE iPhone 5 realeased 2011 could utilize GPRS/EDGE/3G as a fallback and used untill the rollout of LTE 4G, which the phone would then simply 'fire up' the LTE chip/antenna/whatever [not a cell phone engineer] and e a full fledged LTE phone from the day the first 4G tower is put up.

So this iPhone won't be usable on Verizon, except as a data device where they have LTE?

And again, what chips are adequate for Apple's needs?
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post #23 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

So this iPhone won't be usable on Verizon, except as a data device where they have LTE?

And again, what chips are adequate for Apple's needs?

GSM only would be the most cost-effective plan for apple, although both CDMA LTE and GSM LTE iPhones could be sold in the US and China.

And as of yet, no "chips are adequate for Apple's needs"
-it is not 2011 yet though.
post #24 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

I think a CDMA phone is only likely now because iPhone is now outsold by Androids and going to Verizon can temporarily win Apple back the crown. Other then that I still think that Verizon iPhone is only possible when LTE is deployed and all phones use the same wireless standard.

1) Any company that would wait until after a "competitor" beats them is not a smart company. I think Apple is a smart company.

2) If Apple's decision to release a new HARDWARE product in the US is because some SOFTWARE that runs on dozens of models and is free and boud to beat them in marketshare, as opposed to needing to wait for a contract to end and/or production capabilities, or whatever to avail itself, then they are poorly run company. I don't think they are poorly run.

3) If Apple's goal was focused squarely on mobile OS marketshare, not HW sales revenue and profit then I would have sold my stock a longtime ago. I'm still long on Apple.

4) Remember that Apple's first iPhone was EDGE. AT&T's 3G was much more built up than Verizon's is and will be by the rumored ship dates. Jobs' reasoning was because of the 3G chips were not evolved enough to be feasible.

5) Why do people think Apple can these small, power efficient LTE chips when no one can produce any proof they exist yet. WiMAX has been on Sprint for awhile and they just got their first 4G phones this year and they kill the battery in record time. Expect the same from the first LTE chips for phones. There is a reason why these are only in data cards right now. Takes time to refine on both ends.
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post #25 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gokhan View Post

Just forget it. There will never be a CDMA iPhone. CDMA wouldn't work with iPhone OS because you can't simultaneously talk and connect to the Internet with CDMA. Moreover, there is no SIM card and it's not a world standard. Apple is very strict with their standards and they will not bend and produce an inferior phone that is not up to the world standards. Verizon should have known better when they chose CDMA years ago.

There will only be a Verizon iPhone when LTE becomes mainstream. This means it will happen only in June 2012. So, you are looking at iPhone 6.

Apple routinely field-tests various models. So, what is showing on the source code can be any test iPhone. A CDMA test iPhone is pretty much the least likely scenario.

But it's amazing that how many Verizon customers want to have iPhone 4 and Apple is being tried to be pressured through the media to manufacture an inferior iPhone that supports CDMA.

CDMA may not be as popular as GSM, but it's used by China Telecom as well as a couple of companies in South Korea, Japan, India, and others besides Verizon in the US. The lack of voice+data may change the usage patterns of this phone but isn't a complete deal-breaker. Considering the hundreds of millions of potential customers I'd think Apple would be morons not to adopt CDMA in some fashion. Obviously a "universal" phone would be preferrable to a separate CDMA vs. GSM phone, but I don't know if they have the tech ready for that yet.
post #26 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gokhan View Post

Just forget it. There will never be a CDMA iPhone. CDMA wouldn't work with iPhone OS because you can't simultaneously talk and connect to the Internet with CDMA. Moreover, there is no SIM card and it's not a world standard. Apple is very strict with their standards and they will not bend and produce an inferior phone that is not up to the world standards. Verizon should have known better when they chose CDMA years ago.

There will only be a Verizon iPhone when LTE becomes mainstream. This means it will happen only in June 2012. So, you are looking at iPhone 6.

Apple routinely field-tests various models. So, what is showing on the source code can be any test iPhone. A CDMA test iPhone is pretty much the least likely scenario.

But it's amazing that how many Verizon customers want to have iPhone 4 and Apple is being tried to be pressured through the media to manufacture an inferior iPhone that supports CDMA.

GSM is not a world standard as the biggest country (China) uses a version of CDMA. Also, there is no barrier to CDMA supporting simultaneous voice and data... it's just that Verizonwireless hasn't adopted it (yet).

Lastly, there is at least some evidence that CDMA is a better technology. Verizonwireless and Sprint (both CDMA) usually come out ahead of AT&T and T-Mobile (both GSM) in overall call quality surveys and tests.
post #27 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post

GSM is not a world standard as the biggest country (China) uses a version of CDMA. Also, there is no barrier to CDMA supporting simultaneous voice and data... it's just that Verizonwireless hasn't adopted it (yet).

I believe that the revision you are talking about is EVDO Revision B. Verizon uses EVDO revision A.
post #28 of 54
I don't think they are testing a LTE iPhone, and a CDMA one. Mainly because ATT and Verizon LTE roadmaps are different and I don't think Apple will start that tech until 2012 -- when most 4G networks are estabilshed around the US and other countries.

However, I think they are testing a Sprint and Verizon CDMA phone, mainly because if your going to make a phone and test it for another chip (CDMA) -- you might as well put it on both carriers that use it, and even in China since thats what they use as well. Especially if they want to try to out beat Android.

We shall see though! An announcement should be coming soon hopefully!
post #29 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

The source code to iOS is definitely not public.

Actually some of it is: http://www.opensource.apple.com/release/ios-40/

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I suppose some of the source can be decomplied, but that is not very easy to do.

Decompiled resulting in the original C no, but disassembly from the resulting machine code is very easy.
post #30 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gokhan View Post

Just forget it. There will never be a CDMA iPhone. CDMA wouldn't work with iPhone OS because you can't simultaneously talk and connect to the Internet with CDMA. Moreover, there is no SIM card and it's not a world standard. Apple is very strict with their standards and they will not bend and produce an inferior phone that is not up to the world standards. Verizon should have known better when they chose CDMA years ago.

There will only be a Verizon iPhone when LTE becomes mainstream. This means it will happen only in June 2012. So, you are looking at iPhone 6.

Apple routinely field-tests various models. So, what is showing on the source code can be any test iPhone. A CDMA test iPhone is pretty much the least likely scenario.

But it's amazing that how many Verizon customers want to have iPhone 4 and Apple is being tried to be pressured through the media to manufacture an inferior iPhone that supports CDMA.

I agree that it does not make sense for Apple to invest in CDMA is being phased out. Right now, Apple can not fill the demand for the black iPhone 4/UMTS/3G... they have not even begun to sell the white iPhone 4. My 3GS got stolen and I got a 2 week wait from ATT.

As you mentioned, the CDMA phone would be a crippled phone unable to roam much outside the US, and unable to do data with voice. Apple makes its margins with the huge economies of scale with a single design. Add CDMA and the supply chain will be complicated exponentially.

The main reason Android is gaining market share is because of limited supply of iPhone 4. Other reasons are cost... they have 2 for 1 specials for many Android phones. The Android phones are fast becoming commodities and profits will be limited like PCs.
post #31 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I'm not sure what you mean. We are not talking about prerelease plist files.The source code to iOS is definitely not public. BGR is claiming to have a screen shot of it hence the inside source. I suppose some of the source can be decomplied, but that is not very easy to do.

It is normally referred to as "disassembling" or disassembly" - it is actually quite easy. Most any debugger that can handle stepping thru asm code can also display the code. It is however more difficult to shows the symbols and comments. Although symbols can be left in a compiled source and then shown in the disassembled code - the comments however would not be kept and would not be restored in the disassembly process.

Also, most code these days is written in 'C' or some other high level language to make it portable (between processors) - although there are valid reasons for writing code in asm it is just not that common these days - especially for code that does not need to be highly optimized or has to do something rather tricky.
post #32 of 54
Nice to see AI rumouring again
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post #33 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macintosh_Next View Post

I don't think they are testing a LTE iPhone, and a CDMA one. Mainly because ATT and Verizon LTE roadmaps are different and I don't think Apple will start that tech until 2012 -- when most 4G networks are estabilshed around the US and other countries.

However, I think they are testing a Sprint and Verizon CDMA phone, mainly because if your going to make a phone and test it for another chip (CDMA) -- you might as well put it on both carriers that use it, and even in China since thats what they use as well. Especially if they want to try to out beat Android.

We shall see though! An announcement should be coming soon hopefully!

Some questions for everyone (I'm not too bright) -
Verizon is going to roll out a LTE network?
Will it be all at once
Will it have CDMA back up?
Are they going to roll out LTE with no phones capable of using it?
Would it make sense for them to line up a phone maker to be a launch customer for LTE?
What phone maker would make/have the biggest Verizon 4G WOOOW factor?
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post #34 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gokhan View Post

Just forget it. There will never be a CDMA iPhone. CDMA wouldn't work with iPhone OS because you can't simultaneously talk and connect to the Internet with CDMA. Moreover, there is no SIM card and it's not a world standard. Apple is very strict with their standards and they will not bend and produce an inferior phone that is not up to the world standards. Verizon should have known better when they chose CDMA years ago.

There will only be a Verizon iPhone when LTE becomes mainstream. This means it will happen only in June 2012. So, you are looking at iPhone 6.

Apple routinely field-tests various models. So, what is showing on the source code can be any test iPhone. A CDMA test iPhone is pretty much the least likely scenario.

But it's amazing that how many Verizon customers want to have iPhone 4 and Apple is being tried to be pressured through the media to manufacture an inferior iPhone that supports CDMA.

An understandable position, but Verizon starts their 4G network up later this year:
http://www.softsailor.com/news/33716...oming-too.html

So, it would make sense for Apple to release on Verizon, even if most US locations will still be CDMA, because the 4G will be coming soon. They did this with HSDPA on the 3GS, it wasn't available yet in most places, but the phone had it, and now it's been rolled out. There is also precedent for voice and data not operating at the same time, because it works that way under GPRS and maybe Edge too, I can't recall on Edge.

Not only is the lack of simultaneous voice and data not that big of a deal, but it's also a problem that will be alleviated in some areas by January due to 4G availability, if that is in fact the Verizon iPhone release date.
post #35 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post

GSM is not a world standard as the biggest country (China) uses a version of CDMA. Also, there is no barrier to CDMA supporting simultaneous voice and data... it's just that Verizonwireless hasn't adopted it (yet).

Lastly, there is at least some evidence that CDMA is a better technology. Verizonwireless and Sprint (both CDMA) usually come out ahead of AT&T and T-Mobile (both GSM) in overall call quality surveys and tests.

You're wrong. GSM is the world standard. GSM coverage in China is extensive, but it's 3GSM is not extensive.

China Mobile [largest wireless carrier in China] uses GSM [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Mobile]. They are building out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TD-SCDMA which is compatible with iPhones via the UMTS standard as their 3G network.
post #36 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by elliots11 View Post

An understandable position, but Verizon starts their 4G network up later this year:
http://www.softsailor.com/news/33716...oming-too.html

So, it would make sense for Apple to release on Verizon, even if most US locations will still be CDMA, because the 4G will be coming soon. They did this with HSDPA on the 3GS, it wasn't available yet in most places, but the phone had it, and now it's been rolled out. There is also precedent for voice and data not operating at the same time, because it works that way under GPRS and maybe Edge too, I can't recall on Edge.

Not only is the lack of simultaneous voice and data not that big of a deal, but it's also a problem that will be alleviated in some areas by January due to 4G availability, if that is in fact the Verizon iPhone release date.

The problem is that the transition to LTE (which is also known as 3.9G, the system before the true-4G LTE 'advanced') won't be a particularly smooth one. Quoting the AT&T CEO, don't expect the first LTE phones to be released in 2011 to work satisfactorily, because they will be power hogs. There are also always bugs to be fixed and hardware that needs to be optimized. Apple transitioned to 3G iPhone long after 3G became mainstream and I think it's highly unlikely that they will be one of the first LTE-phone manufacturers. But, on the other hand, Apple is also a pioneer in technology, and I might be wrong.

Given that LTE will be backward compatible both with GSM and CDMA2000, we should very likely see a Verizon iPhone then (June 2012 or perhaps earliest in June 2011).
post #37 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe hs View Post

And as of yet, no "chips are adequate for Apple's needs"
-it is not 2011 yet though.

Remember that this technology isn't designed in a vacuum, nor does it spontaneously appear. These things take years to develop and test. If there were small, power-efficient LTE chips ramping up production I figure I would have read about it 2 years ago on Engadget and vendors who don't sell hundreds-of-thousands of the same type unit per day would have bought the first batches before production ramped up so they could technically be first and make a short term payday.

I hope you are right, I just don't see it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

You're wrong. GSM is the world standard. GSM coverage in China is extensive, but it's 3GSM is not extensive.

China Mobile [largest wireless carrier in China] uses GSM [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Mobile]. They are building out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TD-SCDMA which is compatible with iPhones via the UMTS standard as their 3G network.

+++ QFT


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gokhan View Post

The problem is that the transition to 4G LTE won't be a smooth one. Quoting the AT&T CEO, don't expect the first LTE phones to be released in 2011 to work satisfactorily, because they will be power hogs. Apple transitioned to 3G iPhone long after 3G became mainstream and I think it's highly unlikely that they will be one of the first LTE-phone manufacturers. But, on the other hand, Apple is also a pioneer in technology, and I might be wrong.

People do seem to forget that Apple's first phone was GSM with EDGE for data and that 3G had long been established, completely blanketed in some countries and pretty well blanketed by AT&T in major cities with 3G capable phones on the market.

I seem to recall Jobs making a similar statement at MacWorld in 2007 about they didn't go with 3G right away. Anyone have that quote?
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post #38 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by boeyc15 View Post

Some questions for everyone (I'm not too bright) -
Verizon is going to roll out a LTE network?
Will it be all at once
Will it have CDMA back up?
Are they going to roll out LTE with no phones capable of using it?
Would it make sense for them to line up a phone maker to be a launch customer for LTE?
What phone maker would make/have the biggest Verizon 4G WOOOW factor?

I decided to get an account here to answer this question. That said:

Yes, Verizon is building an LTE network. It will be available in about 30 metropolitan areas in November of this year. Over time, more areas will get LTE lit up. By 2013, Verizon claims that LTE will be as plentiful as their current 3G network, so even if you fly to Denver, then drive several hundred miles, all to play a round of golf or ten in the middle of nowhere, you'll likely have a 4G signal. (And don't look at that as a knock on the course -- it's a pretty good course)

Most early devices that will work with LTE will be USB-powered devices which would allow mobile access for laptops. Also, at least one iPad knockoff tablet computer will have LTE built-in. I'm not sure if any smartphones will have LTE built-in, but I wouldn't rule it out. However, any cell phone with LTE built in will absolutely have CDMA backup, and will have that for at least the next five years.

Would it make sense for, say, Motorola, to be a launch customer for LTE? In my opinion, it's neither an advantage nor a disadvantage. It's unlikely that many people will flock to a company, long-term, because of an early-term smartphone launch. The only exception that I can think of to that rule would be Apple. An LTE/CDMA iPhone would be a big WOW launch device. Profit-wise, it may make as much sense for cellphone manufacturers to wait for equipment prices to come down before jumping into the LTE world -- even Apple.
post #39 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gokhan View Post

Just forget it. There will never be a CDMA iPhone.

John C. Dvorak, I presume, has joined AI.
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post #40 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) Any company that would wait until after a "competitor" beats them is not a smart company. I think Apple is a smart company.

2) If Apple's decision to release a new HARDWARE product in the US is because some SOFTWARE that runs on dozens of models and is free and boud to beat them in marketshare, as opposed to needing to wait for a contract to end and/or production capabilities, or whatever to avail itself, then they are poorly run company. I don't think they are poorly run.

3) If Apple's goal was focused squarely on mobile OS marketshare, not HW sales revenue and profit then I would have sold my stock a longtime ago. I'm still long on Apple.

4) Remember that Apple's first iPhone was EDGE. AT&T's 3G was much more built up than Verizon's is and will be by the rumored ship dates. Jobs' reasoning was because of the 3G chips were not evolved enough to be feasible.

5) Why do people think Apple can these small, power efficient LTE chips when no one can produce any proof they exist yet. WiMAX has been on Sprint for awhile and they just got their first 4G phones this year and they kill the battery in record time. Expect the same from the first LTE chips for phones. There is a reason why these are only in data cards right now. Takes time to refine on both ends.

Not arguing that market share is not apple's goal.

In other words it is clear that apple is not trying to be number one just to be number one, and it is clear that many devices will beat one device. It is also obvious that apple needed to grow beyond ATT for at least a year due to inability of ATT to provide tethering, having glitches, spending money on ads instead of towers and if nothing else splitting the load iPhone creates on a single carrier, but has pushed it off for some reason.

It is also true that developers do care about the size of the audience (of course that is different from # of phones sold) and use these stats to decide which platform gets updates first, especially if a developer is small and releasing simultaneously is not an option.

Also it is true that apple needed to branch away from ATT for at least a year (would have been nice from launch but obviously this is impossible in US market) and has been putting it off. I think because they thought LTE would be deployed sooner (they thought when they signed exclusivity back in the day) and they would not have to invest in making CDMA phones only to scrap them later.

Finally if anything the fact apple is outsold could be the straw that makes the camel's back and forces apple to say: You know what, screw it we will build a CDMA phone at whatever cost because of reasons a b and c AND because being on one carrier is now hampering our market share (and user experience).
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