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post #81 of 165
[quote]Originally posted by pscates:
<strong>Yes, Boba is Jango's clone. He's unaltered, so he grows at a normal rate. Just like a son.

Hence, the "father/son" relationship/vibe.

It's in all the literature, websites, novel, reviews.

No mystery there. Trust me. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Ya, I just put that in cause earlier in this thread people didn't seem to get it
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post #82 of 165
[quote]There's something going on there that we're not expecting. It will not be as simple as Sidious takes off his hood to reveal Palpatine.<hr></blockquote>
There has been a lot of speculation that Palpatine is Sidious' clone. Im sort of divided on this. It would be an elaborate cover-up and certainly a suprise, it would also explain why the Jedi havent detected him. Becuase Sidious can hide far away (or at least far away enough that he can accuratly cover himself.) And Palpatine has no dark evil Jedi skills for them to detect but he is under complete controll of Sidious.

[quote]TAnd why do all the clones have an australian accent?<hr></blockquote>
Becuase they are all cloned from Jango Fett. Notice that on Kamino in the "cafeteria" they all looked startingly like him. And the Kaminens said that Jango was the gentic doner. Now why Bobo (who is also a clone of Jango) and the other child Jango clones dont look alike I really cant say.

Also just a thought of mine if the Clones have excellerated growth. Do they also have a faster aging process?

I really enjoyed EPII. Yeah there where some "stick a gun in your mouth" scenes. But on a whole it rocked. And not just the last 30-40 minutes. The chace through Coresaunt was pure StarWars goodness for me. And the charges that Jango let off in the asteroid belt where great. Good sound.
If you look closely you can see one of the animals that Anikin rides on Naboo floating in the asteroid belt. Also when Anikin and Padme are first arriving on Naboo there are like 2 or so Millenium Falcons docked. Easter eggs are yummy.

I had more fun watching EPII than any other StarWars movie ever. I thought Empire and Jedi where cool, but this just blows Jedi and ANH completely away, and is probably on par if not a smidge ahead of Empire.

[ 05-18-2002: Message edited by: Falcon ]</p>
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post #83 of 165
agreed
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post #84 of 165
[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>
Ah, well, I guess this says it all. We got ourselves a Return of the Jedi fan here. Therefore your opinion doesn't count. </strong><hr></blockquote>
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post #85 of 165
First of all, as far as movies go (in general), AotC was an all right one.

But as a Star Wars movie, this one stunk up the screen. I just got back from seeing it a few minutes ago, and it was pretty bad (IMO).

I'll post more later, but the chemistry/magic of the first series just wasn't there in this movie. I'm going to sleep on it- maybe the movie will grow on me.
post #86 of 165
I think I know why "Star Wars" is such a divisive thing these days.

Upon my second viewing (just as in "The Phantom Menace"), I found myself truly bored and anxious to get back home.



I can honestly say that I NEVER felt that, either as a kid watching them for the very first time, OR in any subsequent video/TV viewings, of the original trilogy.

There's simply something missing in these two newer ones that were abundant in the original trilogy.

Heart. A simple story. Yes, the acting could be just as hokey and the dialogue as overstuffed and corny, BUT the charisma of Harrison Ford carried it through the rough patches. The feistiness of Carrie Fisher. Artoon and Threepio were funny and heroic and worthy of our adoration.

There seems to be no spark or life in these two newer additions to the franchise. None of the actors seem to be particularly "acting" or hitting their mark. There are a couple of lines spoken by Natalie Portman and Ewan McGregor during the movie that makes it so obvious they were acting with a tennis ball or green screen.

For all the advances in CGI and digital this and computerized that, there isn't 1/10th of the charm or wide-eyed awe that you got from watching any of the original three movies.

I rooted for Luke, Leia, Han and the rest before. There's just something about this new bunch, the way it's written, acted, played out, etc. that just makes me go "so?".

I know. Things have changed. It's a lot different world now than 25 years ago. In some ways, this stuff is old hat and it's tougher to impress a new generation of people, especially when your average video game or cartoon has as much computer animation and effects as a full-tilt major Hollywood sci-fi flick.

But even beyond that, if you could somehow strip away the effects and eye candy, I don't think most of us can latch onto this newer stuff.

Maybe part of the charm and ease of the original trilogy WAS indeed the simple "good vs. bad" nature of it. Things were clear cut and got right to it. Not a lot of long, ponderous talk about Senate votes, squabbles, Trade Federations, political maneuvering, etc.

I remember sitting in the theater during "The Phantom Menace" and, in addition to being tortured by Jake Lloyd and Jar Jar, thinking "who in the hell can follow this or sink their teeth into it?".

Lucas seems to have lost something along the way. In all honesty, it seems like, in some ways, he's embraced the culture of the "jawdropping money shot" school of filmmaking.

There's a lot of grand eye candy in both of these films, but there's nothing behind it. I can clearly imagine George Lucas sitting behind his animators or CGI people at ILM with a cup of coffee and saying, all day long, "there's a space in this frame...we need something there. Drop in a goofy-looking character doing something cute".

Does anyone else get that feeling? It's almost as if Lucas knows now that with computer and digital effects, ANYTHING is possible. And he, being who he is and completely running the show, has never learned restraint, or simply had someone say to him "George, that's kinda lame and doesn't really need to be there...".

There's just something not there. Charm, wit, a lack of self-consciousness by the actors.

I don't know, exactly. But there is a long, long step from the original trilogy to these new movies. And for all the advances in the visual arena, it seems that the storytelling and character aspect of it has taken a bit of a backseat.

Upon my second viewing, I was looking closer at the FX. And when it isn't done right, then do it the old fashioned way. It looks better. That Dex guy Obi Wan met (with the four arms and baggy pants) looked PAINFULLY lame and "not there". As did the room of Chancellor Palpatine. You can see these fake shadows under the feet of everyone when they walk.

In two scenes in the movie, Anakin rode atop a large alien animal of some sort. Once for fun, once for his life. Both of those scenes completely stunned me in their lack of realism, regarding the CGI. I would just as soon see them revert to the tried-and-true method of stop animation and close-ups with fake animals being manipulated by crews underneath (like they did with the tauntauns from "Empire") than to see this goofy-looking, herky-jerky and not quite convincing image of a guy riding a big space rhino or whatever.

I heard that the principal shooting, involving the actual human actors, was done in less than 60 days. And that the past 18-24 months has just been the CGI and stuff.

To me, that speaks VOLUMES. Pretty much nails it on the head, doesn't it. Look what's getting the most attention and effort!

No wonder these newer movies ring a bit hollow. Every review I've read (including the informal, fan-based ones here) ALL lament the acting, story and character development.

Or lack of it.

What doesn't this dawn on Mr. Lucas? I guess because nobody would ever step up and say anything.
post #87 of 165
I think all you Star Wars nerds out there just have unreal expectations. After worshiping Empire Strikes Back, you guys are setting yourselves up for a letdown. Grow up.
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post #88 of 165
anyone here read "the second coming of steve jobs"? reason i say is that they get into a slight side-story about george lucas, pixar and steve, and they mention something thta i didn't know about star wars that should tell everyone a lot...

one of the oscars that the original star wars won was for EDITING... the primary editor was george's WIFE... they even got divorced after the whole star wars trilogy was finished, citing it as putting too much of a strain on them.

so his wife was the only one with enough balls to tell george lucas he was full of himself and left stuff on the cutting room floor where it belonged.

and now, what you are seeing, is george lucas running amok with a budget like no other. <img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[Surprised]" />

oh, and a friend of mine said it best: "these two movies serve as proof of how much harrison ford's ad-libbing and carrie fisher brought to the original series." heck, these movies NEED a han solo type character who can look at obi wan and anakin and point out how ludicrous all this can be at times, and bring it all back down to earth once in a while (or tatooine, i guess).

[ 05-18-2002: Message edited by: rok ]</p>
When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
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When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
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post #89 of 165
[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>
Isn't this the big joke though? That "the one" mentioned in the prophecy that will bring balance to the force is Anakin/Darth Vader, and that the balance of the force has been on the Light side for much too long (and is as corrupt and evil as the Dark side, if you believe the article discussed in the other thread).

[ 05-18-2002: Message edited by: Belle ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

hey belle, i think the balance that anakin brings is that he eventually saves luke's life, kills palpatine, and ends his own evil reign. just a thought...
When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
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When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
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post #90 of 165
No, Belle is correct. The Jedi were become full of themselves and corrupt. Anakin brought balance to it by wiping out the Jedi for three decades. In the end, only Luke remained to begin a new generation of Force users.
post #91 of 165
[quote]Originally posted by rok:
<strong>hey belle, i think the balance that anakin brings is that he eventually saves luke's life, kills palpatine, and ends his own evil reign. just a thought...</strong><hr></blockquote>
And so the Dark side is defeated. Is there another meaning of the word "balance" that the rest world has been hiding from me?
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post #92 of 165
Thread Starter 
/me reads pscates post
/me nods sadly in agreement
/me has nothing to add to that post

You took the words out of my mouth Paul.
post #93 of 165
Those of you expecting Lucas to recreate the originals have unrealistic expectations.

I went to see the movie again last night with my brother and my wife (who was there on Friday with me as well). My brother, who is a pretty tough critic, really liked it. This is a guy who really rips up movies with one liners and what not....and he really liked it. You know why? Because he likes Star Wars. He is willing to overlook the minor plot holes and cheesy dialogue, because he knows those are there with the others as well.

Once again, it is people that have changed. Lucas doesn't intend to recreate the same frenzy as some of you think. He never predicted it in the first place when making the originals. He was shocked at the reaction, because the original movie almost didn't get released at all due to editing problems and special effects nightmares. Same with the special editions....he said it was just supposed to be a 20th anniversary edit for the fans....not a worldwide revival like it basically became. He was again shocked.

These new movies are for the fans, and to a lesser extent the general public. Once again, I do have some problems with Episode 1, particularly the overuse of Jar-Jar and lack of action, but it sets up the other films well as it is supposed to do. This one puts TPM to shame. It shows the beginnings of Empire very well. And sorry folks, I think they WAY in which he explains the creation of storm troopers is magnificent. The plot is deeper, the effects are more spectactular, the feel is darker, and as a musician, I really LIKE the score as well. I can't get the Anakin/Amidala theme out of my head.

I can't explain it better than that. I was drawn into this movie. I was pumped when I left the theatre on Friday and also Saturday. It was great.

Some of you guys are so critical and cynical. I wonder what you would ahve thought of the originals if you had the same attitudes you have now. And for the younger ones, which I know doesn't include all of you, I think the fact that someone who was born in 1987 could rip apart this movie is almost laughable. And NOT just because of your age, my friends. It is because Star Wars wasn't created in your generation. I am almost too young myself. I have found (as has my wife who also deals with kids as a teacher) that the younger crowd tends to look at these movies as separate films, judged entirely by today's standards. But these films set up others that were created 25 years ago.

These films must be looked at as part of a bigger picture, that is, the entire series. When seeing it that way, they do their job very well and are quite entertaining.

For God's own sake......they are MOVIES....lay off.

[ 05-19-2002: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</p>
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post #94 of 165
[quote]Originally posted by SDW2001:
<strong>These new movies are for the fans, and to a lesser extent the general public.</strong><hr></blockquote>
What an odd thing to say. As far as I can tell, the vast majority of people here expressing disappointment are fans, and that goes for disappointment expressed elsewhere, and negative criticism in the press.

To suggest that Phantom Menace was "for the fans" and not "the general public" is nonsense. Many complaints are based on the premise that Phantom Menace was made to attract a wider audience - including Jar Jar Binks.

You seem to be setting a standard for those of us who can consider ourselves "fans". Does expressing discontent suddenly make you unworthy of the title? Is unadulterated sycophancy a requirement?

Even Lucas and Rick McCallum have admitted that Phantom Menace was aimed at a much wider audience, and that Attack of the Clones was adjusted to atone "fans".

I think it's quite clear that if there's any cynicism involved here, it lies with Lucas, and the transformation of Star Wars into a marketing machine. As you say, the original movies had no such lofty aims. Star Wars struggled to find finance and a distributor, and were better movies for it.

You're right, it's just a movie, and so why aren't the detractors allowed an opinion?

Why am I so disappointed? Same reason a lot of movies disappoint me - that great source material is wasted with bad direction.

The storyline for Star Wars is fantastic. I love mythology, and Star Wars draws on some of my favorite stories (Including Oedipus Rex despite objections above). And yet the value of these stories has been lost in the translation to the screen. pscates is right. The new movies have no soul. The audience doesn't feel the necessary sympathy/hero-worship/hatred/whatever that's necessary to involve them in the film. Does Darth Maul or Count Dooku strike fear into you the way Vader does? Do you feel sympathy for the hapless Shakespearean R2-D2 and C3PO, or do you hate their clowning? Are there characters in the new movies as worthy of adoration as Han Solo or Leia?

[ 05-19-2002: Message edited by: Belle ]</p>
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post #95 of 165
[quote]Originally posted by MacAgent:
<strong>... In the end, only Luke remained to begin a new generation of Force users.</strong><hr></blockquote>

...ahem... and leia, too.

how quickly they forget.
When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
Reply
When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
Reply
post #96 of 165
[quote]Originally posted by rok:
<strong>

...ahem... and leia, too.

how quickly they forget. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Er, right, Leia too.
post #97 of 165
On a side note, was there an explanation as to why, in Phantom Menace, the Jedi Council considers Anakin "too old" to begin training, and yet ol' Ben Kenobi and Yoda managed to get Luke up to Jedi status in no time at all?
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post #98 of 165
[quote]The audience doesn't feel the necessary sympathy/hero-worship/hatred/whatever that's necessary to involve them in the film.<hr></blockquote>

Question necessary to unlock this issue:
How old were you when you first saw Star Wars?
How old are you now?

You are old and cynical now.
When you were little you were willing to overlook Mark Hammil's annoying acting. You LOVED those annoying goddam Ewoks. You were scared as hell of Vader.

Well guess what young people today think... they are willing to overlook Anakin's annoying acting. They LOVE the annoying goddam Jar-Jar Binks. They were scared as hell of Maul and they will be of the AOTC baddies.

These movies really aren't for cynical old bastards who have thought too much about it. These people will ALWAYS be disappointed. I've heard people bitch about Fellowship of the Ring, and that's one of the best movie adaptations of a novel ever.
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post #99 of 165
Ewoks kick ass. the Ewoks made Star Wars in my opinion. How could you not love them?
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post #100 of 165
[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>On a side note, was there an explanation as to why, in Phantom Menace, the Jedi Council considers Anakin "too old" to begin training, and yet ol' Ben Kenobi and Yoda managed to get Luke up to Jedi status in no time at all?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Quite possibly because they were the last 2 jedi alive, and or because they knew luke, the offspring of the vader was the one that would keep the jedi alive. Just a guess. I prolly wasn't very articulate with my explanation.
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post #101 of 165
From the reviews I thought it would be much, much worse!

I didnt consider the loves scenes too mushy, nor did I consider there was too much fighting.
I give it a 95% and way better than Phantom Menance.

It's always easy to knock something down. I'd say, lets these critics make a good movie!
post #102 of 165
[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>You are old and cynical now.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hey, careful there, bucko!

This is true, and while there may be an element of nostalgia in the fact I can watch the originals now and still see them as great movies, I think we're all capable of being objective about them.

You give a good example yourself, in Lord of the Rings. If I'm so cynical now, why did I feel the same kind of glow and sense of wonder seeing Fellowship at the age of 28 that I did seeing Empire Strikes Back when I was but 7?

If you apply the "rules" of filmmaking (You can mock the academia surrounding it, but those same rules of criticism are those the studios apply to creation) to the movies, the originals stand up very well regarding plot lines, character development, key moments, fundamental character traits, etc. The new movies, for the most part, do not.

The basic techniques used to generate fear surrounding characters (Vader, the ringwraiths in LotR) were not applied to any characters in AotC.

The heroics of the goodies which played such a big part in the original movies has been replaced by blind luck in the new movies (Compare the ingenuity of the shields being disabled on Endor and the subsequent attack on the Death Star with Jar Jar's ridiculous clowning on Naboo and Anakin's luck in destroying the control ship).

I know, I know, I'm just being old and cynical. I'd just like to add one more thing though...

Don't you think that Lucas is quite aware that his biggest audience for the new movies is not going to be kids? It's going to be the key demographic for that kind of movie, which is 18-35 year old men, the vast majority of whom will have seen the original movies...

As I said before, both Lucas and his producer admitted a major miscalculation with Phantom Menace, and they attempted to correct matters with AotC.

Of course, I don't fall into the demographic, so what do I know? I wanted to be Leia, though, and I had a crush on Han Solo. Still do, actually.

How about we ask your questions now, see how the people here shape up?

1. How old were you when you first saw Star Wars?
2. How old are you now?

Is there anyone who's gone to see Attack of the Clones without having an undying love for the original movies?
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post #103 of 165
I see star wars in 1978 at the age of 12. Now i am 35.
I was really disapointed by episode 1 : this Jar Jar beam is totally stupid and not fun at all. Nothing to do with the ewoks who where fun and lovely. The battle of the ewoks was serious (dispite some jokes) there was emotion in it. The batlle with Jar Jar beam is clown and totally stupid.
post #104 of 165
[quote]Originally posted by Shanny:
<strong>

Quite possibly because they were the last 2 jedi alive, and or because they knew luke, the offspring of the vader was the one that would keep the jedi alive. Just a guess. I prolly wasn't very articulate with my explanation.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You have the point : luke is the last chance and they have not time for his formation.
post #105 of 165
[quote]Originally posted by Shanny:
<strong>Quite possibly because they were the last 2 jedi alive, and or because they knew luke, the offspring of the vader was the one that would keep the jedi alive. Just a guess. I prolly wasn't very articulate with my explanation.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You're probably right. Or perhaps it was the whole "Dad was a virgin birth and had super-high levels of midi-whatsits" thing?
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post #106 of 165
Ok, time for Artman's rant...

Everything went downhill when the Ewoks appeared on screen...George lost it then. It became a kiddie movie. With kiddie toys and ideals. The Phantom Menace proved this with Jar Jar and the insertion of trendy characters and lines that echoed todays lingo. This IS supposed to be another universe far, far away...right?

I loved Star Wars in the beginning and the next two films kept me going...but The Phantom Menace was a pure Hollywood rip-off. George Lucas was a genius. But now he's another hack. But I guess by the box office results the blind will follow the blind.

For a better example of what I'm trying to say I'll have to let this reviewer explain...and after reading this...I'll spend my money on this movie (and the next one) at a rental store...

<a href="http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/ae/film/" target="_blank">http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/ae/film/</a>
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post #107 of 165
[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>

Question necessary to unlock this issue:
How old were you when you first saw Star Wars?
How old are you now?

</strong><hr></blockquote>

Bada bing!

That nails it.

Also, BECAUSE I've seen the other movies I'm GOING TO BE much more critical of this one. As with everything, the more we see the more we EXPECT.

As for the cinematography, I thought the picture was kinda mushy. I saw Roger Ebert last night and he said that the digital projection version was much cleaner than the film print.
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post #108 of 165
I saw "Star Wars" in 1977 with my parents and little sister. I was 8.

I'm 33 now.

But, like Belle said, there IS a difference. There wasn't a sense of dumb-luck and slapstick bungling in the original trilogy that there was in "The Phantom Menace".

I mean, we went from skimming down a trench at a gazillion miles an hour, navigating asteroids by sheer flying ability and staging a two-part assault on the Empire. All with the help of stolen plans, daring acts of heroism and guts, etc.

Compare that with Jar Jar trying to kick a laser rifle off his foot and "accidentally" killing five or six battle droids. Or releasing those big energy balls, again "accidentally".

Worst of all, that brat in the Naboo starfighter, saying things like "let's spin...that's a good trick!" and other stupid, corny phrases. I've said it before, but that scene, had I directed it, would've been SO much cooler and classier. Instead of being played for yuks and asking the audience to believe a 10-year-old can be THAT damn lucky and unflappable, I would've played it straight and serious: I would've shown Anakin become very serious and determined, and you'd get the sense that he was feeling The Force kinda guide him. That would be seen as a pivotal moment in his life, where he himself realized that perhaps he was special and was indeed meant for great things.

Instead, Lucas played it as a half-ass video game with Saturday morning cartoon improbabilities and "Full House" wisecracks.

Old and cynical or not, you can't deny the HUGE difference in tone between that movie and the original trilogy.

THAT'S why most people were let down or shocked. I'm not so old and cynical that I can't be roused by a well-made, heartstopping "good vs. bad" popcorn movie.

The "comic relief" in the original trilogy was laid on carefully. It wasn't thick and it wasn't constant. Between Jar Jar in "Phantom" and that idiot Threepio in the last 30 minutes of "Clones", that really stinks up a movie.

"I'm quite beside myself", "this is such a drag", "is my head on straight?", etc.



ONE of those could've done the trick, George. Two of them would've been overkill. And you go and pack on about four or five.

Guess what? NOBODY laughed.

Jeez.
post #109 of 165
I think everyone here has seen the first movies before, right?

Well, if at every turn you are trying to analyze this movie with "He is going to be Darth Vader" it is quite a different movie.

Yet:By involving characters that reappear later, George Lucas gives another part of the Star Wars Universe. A history of where everyone came from. In the beginning, Uncle Owen could of been anyone, not necessarily his actual Uncle. Yet, now we know who he is and who is mother is and everything else like that.

Jar-Jar is a good character and he represents the gullible person who wants to belong.

Maybe, just maybe, if you saw these movies before the others, your outlook may be different. either better, or worse, but believe me, different
post #110 of 165
Let's see...movie came out in 77...take 1 away, add 3..I was 12 years old when I saw Star Wars.

I'm now 37.

Personally I liked EP2 as much as I like the original trio (4,5,6). I'm no star wars geek either.

I go to movies to enjoy myself. I bet I could go to any movie and critisize it to death like some of you guys have, but I don't. I'm just thrilled that Lucas actually is finishing them...only wish he would do the final 3 like he originally said he would!!

Sidenote, did anyone ever read that Time article back in the early 80's about these movies that are coming out now? Interesting..too bad I can't remember what they were about
post #111 of 165
It's going to be a tough...Spidey and AotC are going to be neck and neck by the time they are pulled from theaters. Spidey amassed $20M more yesterday (phenomenal for a third weekend.) Star Wars performed admirably as well with $32M, but the numbers for the day before that were pretty bad...

I expect AotC to last a bit longer, but Spidey definitely has legs.
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post #112 of 165
[quote]Originally posted by Eugene:
<strong>I expect AotC to last a bit longer, but Spidey definitely has legs.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeah, eight of them. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> Sorry, couldn't help it.

Saw Spidey again last night. What a comic book movie. As far as Star Wars is concerned...when the first one came out (and I saw it and the other three when they came out) it changed the genre of Sci-Fi on screen. Within a few months there were spin-offs on screen and TV (Battlestar Gallactica anyone?). Since then and after Lucas's hiatus the bar had been raised in production of films such as these.

Lucas (and ILM) was the trendsetter then but after movies like Aliens, Termiator, Matrix and LOTR he's gotten out of sync. Digital production won't work now unless all theatres can provide it. He also needs a lot of help in the screenwriting aspect of things. He should have another director take the project like he did with The Empire Strikes Back (which I think is the best of them all).
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post #113 of 165
well, i have not seen the movie yet, but i will see it eventually. that's a given. now whether i see it in the theaters or on dvd, who knows?

i think i figured out most of the plot from the previews alone. but that's okay. heck, i'll see the last movie, knowing the ending's going to be the republic winning, obi wan and yoda going into self-exile, and the skywalker kids getting sent into hiding. i'll still see it, though.

i also didn't hate episode one as much as others. the trade agreements and stuff made sense to me as palpatine used politcal influence to mask his true pruposes. made sense to me. but i did hate two things very, very much int he first movie:

1. anakin's immaculate conception. i guess george did this so he wouldn't have to answer any questions about movies about anakin's father, but geez, that was a tough pill to swallow.

2. the explanation of "the force" - the single worst thing george could do to the whole bloody series. it colors my view every time i hear someone refer to it anymore. no more mystery. no more allusions to "faith" and ones own pure soul. just something in the mitochondria. great. thanks george. you're an ass.

i really miss someone like han solo going around with a swagger calling the little brat "kid" and such. it gave the audience someone they could identify with when everyone is trying to talk like some shakespeare rejects.

george, you have your wife's phone number (she edited the original series, and, apparently, george's penchant for form over function). call her, and show her your next script BEFORE you make the movie. it'll make it that much better.

[ 05-19-2002: Message edited by: rok ]</p>
When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
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When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
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post #114 of 165
Saw AOTC on Sat. night and had a great time.

I was finally able to watch a new Star Wars movie and 'get into the galaxy'.

Pure fantasyland fun.

It's late and I can't get into all the things that I thought were cool - like the street scene on Coruscant, the Library, the detective work by Obi Wan, seeing Owen Lars for the first time, actually wondering if Dooku may be a early Rebel leader...nah, couldn't be, could he?

Yeah, I liked the movie. I wasn't there to see if the special effects could fool me (none of that "Gee, does that spaceship look "real" or "could that actually be a real Alien!? Why doesn't it look like a "real" alien" nonsense.)

I just wanted to be told and shown more of the star wars story. That happened. I'm content.
post #115 of 165
[quote]Originally posted by seb:
<strong>Saw AOTC on Sat. night and had a great time.

I was finally able to watch a new Star Wars movie and 'get into the galaxy'.

Pure fantasyland fun.

It's late and I can't get into all the things that I thought were cool - like the street scene on Coruscant, the Library, the detective work by Obi Wan, seeing Owen Lars for the first time, actually wondering if Dooku may be a early Rebel leader...nah, couldn't be, could he?

Yeah, I liked the movie. I wasn't there to see if the special effects could fool me (none of that "Gee, does that spaceship look "real" or "could that actually be a real Alien!? Why doesn't it look like a "real" alien" nonsense.)

I just wanted to be told and shown more of the star wars story. That happened. I'm content. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Bingo.
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post #116 of 165
Saw the flick last night finally.
My own enthusiasm at the end was tempered by my girlfriend's severe dislike. hmmm

I came in with 2 demands:
1) Anakin do something evil.
2) I be entertained for the duration of the flick.

*SPOILER ALERT*

I got both.

--

Belle & Paul:

You'll notice that a lot of your references to the "dumb luck" stuff is in reference to The Phantom Menace. This thread is about Episode II.

Not dumb luck in Episode II:
- catching the assassin
- kicking the droid army's ass

Two fairly major events, far more important than Jar-Jar's killing a few droids. And in defense of Anakin's taking out the droid control ship... it's Star Wars. Notice how they manage to ALWAYS MISS the good guys' ships except to take out the goddam shield generators for a few gut-wrenching moments!?

The Slave One destroys EVERYTHING in that asteroid field except Obi-Wans little ship. riiiiight

Unique-to-EpisodeII Complaints:

- They didn't make the Tuscan Raiders scary enough! Those damned things made me shit my pants when I was little, loud and huge. This time they were just chilling 'round the campfire, we should've at least had one full screen shot of one yelling loudly to scare us.

- Didn't show Anakin killing them enough. We get the info about his killing women and children later in a decently-acted (for a Star Wars main character) scene. (Question: This guy just killed women and children.. yet you, as a potential love interest, EMBRACE him!?)

Likes:

- Yoda kicks ass! The crowd loved it, cheering when he struck that kick-ass Bruce Lee pose. Total money shot, I loved it.

- Anakin killing the Tuscan Raiders and the subsequent scene where he admits it. I thought that scene was pretty good and pretty decently acted (I know, I'm going to get tomatoes thrown at me).

- Awesome special effects. The only huge gaffe I noticed was Count Dooku's perfectly still coiffure while riding the goddam speeder. A few backdrops looked a little off, but I attribute that to my being a total nerd. (My girlfriend is a benchmark for technical aspects, she doesn't know or care about the flaws unless they're obvious, so I go with her assessment since she's not a nerd like me.)

*END SPOILER ALERT*

Overall I liked it a lot. I think it was a hell of a lot better than The Phantom Menace and also better than Jedi. A solid #3 in the series behind Empire and A New Hope.
proud resident of a failed state
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post #117 of 165
[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>You'll notice that a lot of your references to the "dumb luck" stuff is in reference to The Phantom Menace. This thread is about Episode II. </strong><hr></blockquote>
True, but someone suggested that the reason we see the older movies in a better light than the new ones is because we were younger and less cynical. I was just pointing out there are some technical reasons why the earlier movies are better.

I'm usually easily pleased at the movies. Give me a bucket of Dr. Pepper and some butter popcorn and I'll sit through anything and be entertained. I've seen a bunch of movies in the last few weeks and two of them committed the ultimate sin - they got so boring at points that I was looking round the theater to see what other people were doing. One was Panic Room (Which is disappointing as I like David Fincher), and the other was Attack of the Clones, which bored me to tears for about an hour to ninety minutes.

It was still worth seeing for the scenes on the cloning planet and the spectacular destruction of the Naboo ship at the start.

I'm going to see it again tomorrow with a different set of friends. It'll be interesting to see how it views a second time...
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post #118 of 165
&lt;sigh&gt;
If the Star Wars series wasn't PG13 they'd have the option of tackling some more intense emotions. Anakins confession of violence to Padme was a good scene that probably could have been better had the Director crafted the scene better.

Dialogue has never been a strongsuit of Star Wars but it REALLY has been poor lately. Anakin is reduced to sounding like a stubborn brat claiming that "It's not fair!" or "Obi Wan is jealous" I'm not asking for Tolkien style dialoge but my goodness!

Padme is stiff as a board during the first half of the movie making her disclosure of "Deeply" loving Anakin seem out of place.


I'll echo Eugene's sentiments on inconsitencies. Yoda at the end must conjure up the Force to protect Obi and Anakin from being squashed..when common sense says move the bodies.

All in all I liked the movie much more than TPM and look forward to EP3
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post #119 of 165
Like I said, I saw it twice this weekend. I am more excited now than I was! Really, the more I think about it the more I like it. With TPM it was kind of the opposite.

The end is so awesome. I am willing to look past the cheesy parts. I have to get he soundtrack soon! AND, I can't wait to get this ****er on DVD.
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post #120 of 165
[quote]Originally posted by Aquatik:
<strong>EP II sucked. Where is the GENIUS of Lucas? 4-6 were based on so many great works of literature (weren't they? Oedipus Rex, obviously )</strong><hr></blockquote>

Uh, no. Try pulp sci-fi from the '50s and '60s. The best description of Star Wars itself that I can remember is "a western in space."

Now, there's nothing wrong with that. High camp can be fun. In fact, I didn't get disillusioned with SW because I found out it was campy (since that's kind of obvious), I got disillusioned when it started to look like Lucas was actually taking it seriously.

Also, the first series had Han Solo, who was just enough of a wisecracking smartass to keep things lively (and Harrison Ford was able to call Lucas on his BS, too). Without him, the films tend to wallow in maudlin earnestness.
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Original music:
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