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FBI/CIA knew of plot before 9/11

post #1 of 236
Thread Starter 
I'm shocked. I can't believe what has unfolded over the past two weeks. Basically, our government, the one that told us that 9/11 came out of the blue, the one that told us there was no advance warning, the one that gave MORE FUNDING to the CIA and FBI for intelligence so this wouldn't happen, KNEW about the terrorist threat before the attacks.

All that talk about 'we need better intelligence because we didn't see this coming' and 'there was nothing we could do' was complete BS.

The latest revelation is that Bush himself was informed of the plot, but he claims that he didn't know that the pilots were going to fly planes into the buildings.

<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/16/politics/16INQU.html" target="_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/16/politics/16INQU.html</a>

What I want to know is this: WHY DIDN'T THEY DO ANYTHING? They had the information about the pilots training inside the country, but all they did was put them on watch lists. They knew about the Al Qaeda plot to hijack planes, and they didn't stop these men from getting on planes. They knew Bin Laden was planning a major terrorist operation, and they were still not stopped. There was even an FBI document which directly outlined the fear that they might try and fly a plane into the World Trade Center. There is even a suspected document which shows that they might try and fly planes into government buildings (Pentagon, White House, etc.), but those won't be released as most of the Pentagon info is not released- it's classified.

But how much more specific can you get? They knew the suspects, they knew what they were trying to do, and they didn't do their jobs- the CIA, the FBI, and the Bush Administration.

As a result, we had the nightmare situation on 9/11. We had thousands of innocent people die in New York and Washington. We had hundreds of innocent people die in planes. All because our government did not stop them.

We need an immediate reform of the CIA and FBI. We don't need to give them more money, we need to get them shaped up. They can collect information, they can figure out the plot, yet they can't stop it?

The Bush administration can try and claim all they want that even if they had done something, it wouldn't have stopped the attacks. But the truth is that the government knew that airplane training schools were breeding grounds for this type of attack as evidenced by the information they were gathering in Phoenix. (Moussaoui who was arrested, in fact, was in that group!) They also knew the potential targets (WTC, Pentagon), and nothing was done. They completely underestimated the terrorists, even though the blueprints for the plans were in their hands. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />

[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: Fran441 ]</p>
post #2 of 236
You´re dissing Bush? Remember it wasn´t him that lied about his sex life
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post #3 of 236
Thread Starter 
He at least knew that planes with American citizens were going to be hijacked and nothing was done.

Plus, as far as I know, Clinton's mistakes didn't kill anyone. I'm not saying Bush killed anyone, but the fact that his administration (and more specifically, the CIA and FBI) knew about the possible terrorist plots and did nothing then issue a low level alert (never mind not even telling people at the WTC of a possible problem). Thousands of people DIED because of this screw up. This was a HUGE mistake. They dropped the ball on this one.

[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: Fran441 ]</p>
post #4 of 236
[quote]Originally posted by Fran441:
<strong>He at least knew that planes with American citizens were going to be hijacked and nothing was done.

Plus, as far as I know, Clinton's mistakes didn't kill anyone.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I was waiting for this thread to get started. And, my money was on Fran to start it. I was thinking about doing it myself, just to pre-empt the liberals taking their turn on the "jump to conclusions mat".

Fran, you are a liberal fool. Of course they knew there were hijackings planned. And, they DID DO SOMETHING!!! They put law enforcement on many of the aircraft after the warning. They alerted the appropriate agency. NO ONE ever supsected they would turn the plane into missles. NO ONE. I agree that several agencies dropped the ball. But, you have the facts wrong.

It is so easy for us to look back and say things like "they didn't connect the dots". In a Pre-9/11 world however, I am sure it never even entered Bush's mind (or anyone's) that they might plunge them into buildings.

This headline is so bogus. On Fox News and CNN it said something like your thread's title, making it sound as if Bush knew about the actual 9/11 plot. That is criminal. The REPORTING is criminal.

Oh, and on Clinton: How about mistakes like reducing the military's budget by 1/3? How about looking the other way while China sold nuke materials to rogue nations (that is DOCUMENTED, Fran).

If it were not for the economy, Clinton would go down in history as one our absolute worst, most corrupt presidents.

[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]

[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</p>
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post #5 of 236
Thread Starter 
[quote]Fran, you are a liberal fool. Of course they knew there were hijackings planned. And, they DID DO SOMETHING!!! They put law enforcement on many of the aircraft after the warning. They alerted the appropriate agency. NO ONE ever supsected they would turn the plane into missles. NO ONE. I agree that several agencies dropped the ball. But, you have the facts wrong. <hr></blockquote>

The facts don't lie. The FBI had documents showing that they wanted to use planes to attack the WTC. That's a FACT. Maybe Bush didn't know that. Maybe it didn't get passed along to him. Fine.

But let's face it- he knew that terrorists wanted to hijack planes in the US, and the government only notified SOME federal agencies. The Airlines weren't keeping track, and they let suspected terrorists (PEOPLE ON WATCH LISTS!!!) get on planes even after some had been stopped by LOCAL AUTHORITIES!

Don't turn this thread into something about Clinton. It's not about Clinton here, it's about the mistakes that federal agencies made in tracking the terrorists and stopping them, even when they had the blueprint of the plot in their hands.

Now THAT'S what is CRIMINAL.
post #6 of 236
Thread Starter 
<a href="http://www.msnbc.com/news/751100.asp" target="_blank">http://www.msnbc.com/news/751100.asp</a>

[quote]FBI Director Robert Mueller referred to another internal document that may prove more explosive: notes by a Minneapolis agent worrying that French Moroccan flight student Zacarias Moussaoui might be planning to fly something into the World Trade Center.<hr></blockquote>
post #7 of 236
"The facts don't lie. The FBI had documents showing that they wanted to use planes to attack the WTC. That's a FACT. Maybe Bush didn't know that. Maybe it didn't get passed along to him. Fine."


HOLY CRAP FRAN!!!!!!!

That is patently FALSE!!!! The documents speciffically DO NOT say that. I have never even heard that statement from ANYONE before.

You responded to a poster concerning Clinton and I repsonded to you. I think he DID put American lives in jeopardy. We disagree. I think he is partly responsible for 9/11. How is that?
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post #8 of 236
Thread Starter 
[quote]That is patently FALSE!!!! The documents speciffically DO NOT say that. I have never even heard that statement from ANYONE before. <hr></blockquote>

Did you miss my above post????
post #9 of 236
[quote]Originally posted by Fran441:
<strong><a href="http://www.msnbc.com/news/751100.asp" target="_blank">http://www.msnbc.com/news/751100.asp</a>

</strong><hr></blockquote>

I have never seen that. I bet it wasn't passed along.....and to be honest I question the accuracy of that report.......I have followed the thing very closely and I can't believe I would have missed that. Maybe though. Fair enough.

[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</p>
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post #10 of 236
Thread Starter 
I'm more upset with the CIA and FBI right now than Bush. I just wish more was done by those two agencies to stop these guys. They were on watch lists, they knew something big was going down, and they knew the suspected plot, but they still didn't stop them from doing it.

I doubt that the FBI got that document to Bush either, which is another major concern. If you have a major plot against American civilians when you know that there are increased terrorist activities, you think they would have let him know. The lack of communication between the intelligence agencies, and even their own brances allowed this to happen.

It just makes me so mad though. These agencies (CIA, FBI) lied to us the entire time- they had the info, they just didn't want to be caught with egg on their faces. Now their budgets are much higher and they're still providing the same amounts of info. Hopefully they can stop things like this from happening now.
post #11 of 236
Could we just discuss this rationally and, out of respect to the many thousands of innocent lives who fell as victims of such a devious ploy, not bring up political party denominations into the subject?
I am sure we all agree that the victims had democrats, republicans, liberals, as well as conservatives amongst them; not to mention the many other denominations under which the victims felt they belonged to.
post #12 of 236
Thread Starter 
It's just so frustrating to know that it might have been stopped and wasn't. Sure, it was bad when they said, "We didn't even see it coming". But to know now that not only did they see it coming, but might have even known almost the entire plan is unbelievable. Then, after they (CIA/FBI) get tons of money from the government for their agencies, almost 8 months later they finally let out that they know something about what was going on, and it has kind of 'snowballed' over the past two weeks to what we see today.

I think the FBI and CIA need to go in favor of a new intelligence agency that can be better managed. I just can't get those poor people out of my mind. This might have been averted. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />

Edit: I changed the title of the topic because it was more those two agencies than the entire government that knew about the plot in advance.

[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: Fran441 ]</p>
post #13 of 236
I can't believe anyone would be desperate enough for an argument to bring up Clinton's sex life in a subject that has nothing to do with Clinton. Sheesh.

And SDW, if you keep revising yourself at this rate, you're going to agree with Fran before long. As for the separate topic you opened up, smooth move.

[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: poor taylor ]</p>
post #14 of 236
Bad indeed. However, two things to add:

1. The title of this thread is somewhat misleading. They had a bunch of clues in front of them and couldn't piece them together. This is very bad, but it's not that they knew this was going to happen. The point is that they should have known what was going to happen. It's all bad, but there's difference there that I think is important.

2. Be glad the CIA/FBI are finding this out for themselves at least.

Again, it's all bad, but I think a slightly different attitude is merited. and, yes, both agencies need to cut the red tape and BS before a few thousand more die.
post #15 of 236
Maybe the Democrats can sell photos of Bush on the phone learning about the coming terrorism and doing nothing about it.

: ducks and runs :



[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: BRussell ]</p>
post #16 of 236
Please disregard my previous rant. I thought Fran was saying Bush may have known of the 9/11 plot in particular. Tha's why I went ape shit!

Sorry. Agreed. FBI and CIA were negligent.

This just shows that our government has lost its focus....or at least had. It is meant to protect us, not regulate our lives and take 50-60% of our incomes in the process.
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post #17 of 236
Heh. I've wanted the FBI, CIA and NSA to be dismantled and rebuilt since Sept 11. All bad deeds must be rewarded with more money! Plus, the creation of a 5th line of defense, a totally redundant and wholly ineffectual office to the tune of $40G, to boot. And the poor INS, the scapegoat so far.

And too bad the administration has tunnel vision with Iraq, when Saudi Arabia deserves some sanctions themselves, too.
post #18 of 236
Need more money? We'll just print some more for ya!
post #19 of 236
I've always thought the CIA/FBI BUSH knew of the plans, and they wanted it too happen. Maybe they underestimated the scale of the attack, but I was/am damn sure that they knew. Its all about money. A few thousand deaths are of no concern to governments (although for obvious reasons they'd never admit too this). Its all about money/oil and excuses to get Osama. The benefit to the US outweighs the losses as far as govn is concerned.
post #20 of 236
Not to defend the FBI or CIA, but do realize that they get thousands of threats like this on a daily basis. It's easy for us now to go back in hindsight and pick out the few documents that could have led us to what was going to happen. But, for them to put it togethor back then, as lapse as our agencies had become.

I'd like to believe that IF our government had a real concern of what was going on, then they would have stopped it. Yes, they are a big-spending, under-achieving (typical?) government agency, but if they could have stopped it they would have. Right?
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post #21 of 236
Marc, read the article. They were aware of threats to hijack planes, not threats to hijack planes and slam them into buildings. That had never happened before. It's safe to assume that they assumed it meant a "traditional" hijacking threat.

[spelling & grammar]

[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: BuonRotto ]</p>
post #22 of 236
OH MY GOD!!

The CIA and FBI knew that terrorists attacks were planned!?!? Holy shit, that NEVER HAPPENS!!

FEAR! FIRE! FOES!

It's not like bin Laden hadn't killed dozens of our soldiers and dozens of citizens with his terrorist regime in the past. So shocking!

And Bush really wasn't doing his job as president by not magically knowing every piece of evidence prior to a future event. He really isn't the literal visionary (Nostradamus in '04!) we need heading the executive branch.

So basically the big news here is that, in hindsight, we can find a few clues?

Whoop-de-freakin'-do!

---

MarcUK:
You're a moron.
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post #23 of 236
[quote]Originally posted by Fran441:
<strong>

Plus, as far as I know, Clinton's mistakes didn't kill anyone.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

Fran441,
Time for you to increase your knowledge.

Remember when Clinton was in hot water for lying to a grand jury about his relationship with Monica? To deflect attention away from that, he sent off a few cruise missiles at some terrorist places. One of the places we hit was an aspirin factory that had nothing to do with terrorists. Innocent people were killed because of Clinton trying to deflect attention away from his F'ups.

Interesting that the media pooh-poohed the leveling of the aspirin factory and workers killed with only a few blips of mention about it. Of course, if a Republican was the one doing all of this, the media would be foaming at the mouth to impeach him for lying to a grand jury and killing innocent aspirin factory workers.

You should also observe how the media runs with this and compare with what's been found out recently about FDR and his knowledge of the Pearl Harbor attack. Some of the PBS stations I watch here in Southern California have had people on with evidence that indicates FDR knew in advance of the attack at Pearl Harbor and let it happen so that we would have a reason to get into the war with Japan. What you see about the Pearl Harbor story is nothing from the media. But this Bush thing will have legs and will be milked for all its worth for the main reason of getting more democrats elected to office.

Must be nice having media protection for your political party...
post #24 of 236
<strong>Originally posted by patmcfar8:
Not to defend the FBI or CIA, but do realize that they get thousands of threats like this on a daily basis. It's easy for us now to go back in hindsight and pick out the few documents that could have led us to what was going to happen. But, for them to put it togethor back then, as lapse as our agencies had become.</strong>

Yes, I agree. There will be terrorist acts in the future that cause thousands of deaths. The problem is preventing as many as possible and the solution the USA has committed to is fumbling at best. Very little common sense going on out there.

Pet theory of mine. Bureaucracies age. They grow old and acquire habits they can't break. The warning signs have been there for a long time, and were not recognized. There was the first WTC bombing, the Embassy bombings, the Riyadh bombing, and the USS Cole bombing. Extremist Arab militism seems to be grwoing. Those are gigantic hints. If the current bureaucracies can see them, I don't think they'll see them with more money.

Just look at the inane security stuff going around. It's insane!
post #25 of 236
THT ~

True. However the U.S. is an easy target, and no matter how well we defend ourselves, we can't defend against everything. Sadly...

I mean, our "new" security measures at the airports are still subpar, better, but not enough. Yet the general public complains that they have to wait too long in lines; or complains when an airport shuts down for a few hours for a possible security breach; or complains about ticket prices going up.

Plain and simple. The public is not ready for the commitment it would take for the U.S. to properly protect itself. Until that happens, we will continue to be an easy target. Yet when we do get attacked again, the public will complain that we didn't do enough to stop it. So hypocritical... Meanwhile the general public is more concerned with how well Star Wars V does at the Box office.
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post #26 of 236
[quote]Originally posted by sc_markt:
<strong>Remember when Clinton was in hot water for lying to a grand jury about his relationship with Monica? To deflect attention away from that, he sent off a few cruise missiles at some terrorist places. One of the places we hit was an aspirin factory that had nothing to do with terrorists. Innocent people were killed because of Clinton trying to deflect attention away from his F'ups.</strong><hr></blockquote>You could make the same argument about Bush, though.

"Trying to deflect attention away from his first six months' bumbling, unpopular, election-stealing image, Bush starts a war to wag the dog and turn his presidency around. He kills untold innocent Afghanis for his own cheap political gain, but doesn't succeed in getting bin Laden."

It's EXACTLY the same as your accusation against Clinton.

The only difference is that Congressional Democrats HAVEN'T made this argument, whereas Republicans (and you) do make it against Clinton.
post #27 of 236
Hey.

Jee-zus. Don't give me that Media shit. The media gives us what we want/deserve, pablum. Where does the media get it's money? From truth seeking consumers? Or huge corporations who own/advertise the media?

Come on, Clinton, Bush, the other Bush, etc. are all PRESIDENTS. They are ALL thieves, liars and murderers.

This whole Clinton vs. Bush or Gore vs. Bush or Democrat vs. Republican is a little short-sighted. It's money vs. money, POWER vs. POWER.

Bush Junior? Lotta big oil money in his pockets, and blood on his hands from Afghanistan (precision bombing my ass), and soon to be Iraq, Somalia, Sudan, Pakistan, the Phillipines, and anywhere else that "Extremist Muslim Terrorists" can be used to an advantage. Or "narco-terrorists", like in Columbia. Right wing death squads are back (though they never really went away)! And oh yeah, watch yer civil liberties carefully.

Clinton? Nafta? His baby. Of course the various cruise missile attacks, and the civil liberties mentioned earlier? Look up his post OKC legislation.

Bush Sr.? Iraq, Panama, the Kurds, yaddity yaddity.

Reagan? Where to start? Why not where he did, with arms for hostages?

Carter? Familiar with East Timor? He was. He sold Indonesia the arms used in that lil genocide.


So don't give me that Clinton Was Great pep talk, or the uber-patriotic Bushisms either.

splode
post #28 of 236
<strong>Originally posted by patmcfar8:
True. However the U.S. is an easy target, and no matter how well we defend ourselves, we can't defend against everything. Sadly...</strong>

Accepting the reality of a situation does not absolve the responsibility of an authoritarian body from learning from their mistakes and improving their abilities. The CIA, FBI and NSA need to do a better job; reform, transform, change tactics, whatever, but they are fumbling around, and they better get on the ball.
post #29 of 236
<a href="http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/02_11_02_lucy.html" target="_blank">http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/02_11_02_lucy.html</a>

All the information in the above link has been gathered from the regular news gathering agencies and networks.

If anyone knew of the impending attacks, then the US Intelligence services network, which have by far the world's greatest resources for gathering information, would have known. And if so, which looks more than likely, (despite the "compartmentalization policy" that exists within the Intelligence Services), then it also seems more than likely that the President would have been briefed accordingly.
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post #30 of 236
THT~

Again, true. There's PLENTY of room for improvement. Agreed.

What I'm saying is that, maybe not you, maybe not me, but the general public is not ready to make the commitment to change our way of life in order to "properly" protect ourselves from the "bad guys".

We're talking about guys who will give up their own lives in order to kill innocent people. How do you defend against that?

And Samantha~

You're telling me that you honestly believe that our own government knew all about the worst terrorist attack in our history and just let it happen? Just let thousands of innocent people die? You can't really believe that?

OK, I need to get out of this serious topic and find me something nice and thoughtless...
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post #31 of 236
<strong>Originally posted by patmcfar8:
What I'm saying is that, maybe not you, maybe not me, but the general public is not ready to make the commitment to change our way of life in order to "properly" protect ourselves from the "bad guys".</strong>

What sort of commitment are you talking about?

<strong>We're talking about guys who will give up their own lives in order to kill innocent people. How do you defend against that?</strong>

Of the magnitude that kills thousands of people, especially when its a foreign terrorist, who has previously declared war on us, who has previously commited acts of terror against us? They can't stop a lone deranged nutbag with a gun or homemade bomb, but when there is an organized activity of well funded people, yes, I think the bar should be set that high.
post #32 of 236
[quote]And Samantha... You're telling me that you honestly believe that our own government knew all about the worst terrorist attack in our history
and just let it happen? Just let thousands of innocent people die? You can't really believe that?<hr></blockquote>

What is so whacked out about that? In the minds of military planners, collateral damage of 3000 killed is a relatively small price to pay for....[fill in the blank]

None the stories quoted in that link have been disproven or refuted, as far as I am aware. Just because the U.S. Government is implicated in having advance knowledge of the attacks, do you therefore automatically relegate such material to the land of "conspiracy theory", thereby conveniently trashing it by association, just like anything else that doesn't fit official propaganda and line?

To paraphrase that well-worn maxim and apply it to the U.S. Government...."if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck...then it must be a parrot"

Out of 9-11 also came one of the most anti-American piece of scumbag legislation this side of Kandahar, aka the "Patriot Act" (!!!???!!!). Sometimes, one has to wonder just whose side the U.S. Government is really on. Al Qaeda must be laughing like drains...they're winning the war.

<a href="http://www.bcentral.com/articles/msnfeature/114.asp" target="_blank">http://www.bcentral.com/articles/msnfeature/114.asp</a>

[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: Samantha Joanne Ollendale ]</p>
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post #33 of 236
SJO,

I agree with you. Our Gov is getting good at either trumpeting fake Wars like the Wars on Drugs and Crime(followed by the gullible public following lockstep to their idiotic legislative efforts). Or they're "protecting" us by snatching back some freedoms that we enjoy. We certainly aren't winners in this War...we have less liberty now than prior to 09-11-01
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post #34 of 236
Ya, that's true again.

What sort of commitment are you talking about?

I don't have time right now to argue that point. (stupid work)

I'll simplify everything I said before into this last point:

Was our gov. sitting around mulling over a few leads on what was going to happen, trying to fit the pieces of the incomplete puzzle togethor. Half of them saying, "Quick close down all of the airports in the US, evacuate all of NY city!" and the other half was like, "Let's wait and get more info." or, "We get info like this all of the time, I don't think it's real." Then it happened, and all they could do was pick up the pieces and figure out what to do next. Yes, I think that's entirely possible.

If, however you think that they were sitting around with the whole plan layed out before them in nice lamented folders, eating popcorn and watching CNN waiting for it to happen, going, "Damn. Look at that! Maybe we should have done something?" Then I think that's insane!

I'd like to thing that if they could have stopped it, that they would have. The end.

BTW, Samantha, good article. I agree with that.

[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: patmcfar8 ]</p>
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post #35 of 236
<strong>Originally posted by patmcfar8:
Was our gov. sitting around mulling over a few leads on what was going to happen, trying to fit the pieces of the incomplete puzzle togethor.</strong>

My point of contention is that they should be able to put the puzzle together, and the primary reason stopping that is an aging bureaucracy too set in its machinations.

[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: THT ]</p>
post #36 of 236
Try to make heads or tails of this:

1) Someone might steal a car from a car rental place in the next few months.

2) I might crash something into the Mall of America in the next few months.


So what do you do with that information? Close down the Mall of America for an indefinite period of time?
Come on, guys! Do you really think information that simple is good enough to go on?

It seems to me that's bascially all the government had.
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post #37 of 236
Thread Starter 
[quote]Do you really think information that simple is good enough to go on?<hr></blockquote>

It was enough to get Moussaui, wasn't it? Plus, don't you think that the government had the OBLIGATION to tell the people who ran the WTC about the possible threat? Not even that was done.

Completely bungled.
post #38 of 236
The real truth is closer to what is in the article that Samantha posted,that it was in the best interest of members of the government to ignore the terrorist threat because it would disrupt their business dealings,and that many "patriotic" people in the Bush administration walk both sides of the street when it is in their financial interest to do so.Gore Vidal's latest book is on the same topic.The saddest thing is that most Americans don't even care to hear the truth.
post #39 of 236
[quote]Originally posted by Samantha Joanne Ollendale:
<strong>What is so whacked out about that? In the minds of military planners, collateral damage of 3000 killed is a relatively small price to pay for....[fill in the blank]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Absolute, complete, total, utter, undeniable bullshit. People who say this have no desire, of ever getting to know who runs this country or making a real difference. I don't care if you're Republican, Democrat, Green or Whig. It's just oh-so easy to assume that this is some kind of conspiracy because you're not bright or talented enough to do anything for others. But it's so easy to point fingers, implicate, pontificate and generally criticize others for a responsibility you have no real ability to actually handle. It's so easy from behind your little desk.

Try to get to know these apparently horrible killing machines sometime. Have you ever really known anyone of any rank in the military? You might be surprised who ends up on top. Do you even know any politicians? Have you ever had lunch with these government agency workers? Have you ever witnessed any of these agencies at work? Even the worst ones you could pull out wouldn't be OK with this massacre of Americans. Time to learn a little bit about these people. They're a lot more like you than you might think.

Can they be greedy? Yes. Crooked? Yes. Selfish? Yes. Pompous? Yes. Jingoist? Yes. Cannibals? No. Really. I've met some of our nation's worst in Washington and none of them, politicians or military would even consider that kind of shit. Never. Honest. Stop fabricating this "us" vs. "them" dichotomy between the government and you. It's a sign of your own weakness to blame people who make an earnest attempt to do what's right, especially in these extreme situations. If you think it's so wrong, go to Washington and do something about it. It's just so safe from where you are, just ask Noam Chomsky.

It sounds like these people seriously ****ed up. But to assume it was meant to fall through the cracks shows a fundamental ignorance of our government's biggest weakness. It's not the people who are the problem, it's the interaction among them that's at fault. Face it, sometimes there's no vast conspiracy, just incompetence. Shit happens. Really bad shit.
post #40 of 236
[quote]

So determined were they to prevent the emergence of such embarrassing facts that when the Democrats took control of the Senate, Vice President Dick Cheney tried to intimidate Majority Leader Tom Daschle from undertaking a serious investigation of the Sept. 11 catastrophe. Both Newsweek and the Washington Post reported last January that Cheney called Daschle to warn against the investigation.

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Ok this kind of stuff really pisses me off,it's time to throw these liars and crooks out of office.Stop the Bush occupation! Overthrow the corrupt government!
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