Digg founder says Apple iTV launch in September will 'change everything' - Page 4

Okay, so Windows Media Center is larger than Front Row.

Please let us know how the bloatiness of any software is beneficial to Joe Consumer. Thanks.

Let's not forget that Steve Ballmer of MS will introduce their version "Windows 7 TV" coming in the fall... of 2012...

I like our plan... I like it a lot... Ballmer was overheard saying...

The Apple 1 was released in 1976, the year before the PET - the first personal computer with a keyboard, display output (TV) and built in programming language (basic) and was affordable.

And for the other poster, my first computer was an Apple ][+ in 1980.

This is the classic "fanboy detached from the reality of consumer electronics manufacturing" scenario.

Yes, it's possible, at the cost of thousands and thousands of dollars. Guess, what? It's not about one fanboy's interests.

Remember that CmdrTaco (a.k.a. Rob Malda) made a similarly notorious comment when the iPod debuted. "No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame."

Its very possible. Imagination CVD chip that can do High-Profile 1080p video, a 1GHz (or faster) A4 (or better) for all other processing, and an HDMI out. I dont expect Component (or lesser) outputs this time around as I am guessing content owners will want HDCP on all output ports (I would).

Ah, i thought he meant it greater than as in better than, not actually greater than in terms of market share. Oh well.



Its actually pretty inexpensive. This technology has been around for a long time now. H.264 is easily decoded in HW with a tiny little chip. You take the entire PoP/SoC that is the A4 in the iPhone 4, swap in a 1080p decoder and you potentially have yourself the core of the next AppleTV. It could easily fit into a casing not much bigger than that. The biggest single part would likely be power supply converting the AC/DC. There is really not much bulk or cost to a device running ARM with little NAND. I think $99 is low looking at iSupplis cost breakdown of the iPhone 4 and iPad, but its possible.

I wish it was so cheap to watch TV with my cable provider - Rogers/Robbers

* $99 for a terminal to HDTV (only $99 at time of purchase with HDTV)

* $499 for each PVR (or pay $24.95 for rental)

I see a troll is missing the point here App stores certainly did exist before the App Store, but there was definitely no centralized location to get any third-party apps. So in that sense, there was no App Store before the App Store.

Apple just does it better... much better than the competition But you can't say that Apple doesn't make things more accessible to people, which is why their products tend to be more popular than competitors'.

Just because it doesn't have a touch interface, nor has accelerometers, doesn't mean it can't run iOS and use AppStore. It will have its own apps and its own control interfaces, but there is still plenty of tech in iOS that it can leverage. Don't expect it to run any iPad or iPhone apps though.

Sorry to break your heart, but the first was the Lisa which was a GUI (given to by Zerox).

The Commodore wasn't even interesting until the 64. At tha point it was able to play games. (which were classic). It wasn't until the 64 that I actually started to play games, which was all the commodore was known for.

This is like saying the Altaire was the most important. It wasn't just by legacy.

I should know. I was gaming by the time arcades were still popular in the 80's.

Try looking in iBooks again. They now have plenty of regular books in the Canadian iBooks. Sh*t my Dad Says, iPad Survival Guide, Postcard Killers, Rage of Angels, Hangman, Last Night at Chateau Marmont, Secret Daughter, Outliers, Tough Customer, Under the Dome. Those are the Top 10 Paid Books.

This is simply not true! Virtually all iOS apps run [in various stages of their development] on x86 iMacs using the iPhone Simulator. You can develop iOS apps this way without spending a dime. To actually run your iOS apps on a device, you must register as a $99 per year developer.

Obviously, there are certain iDevice hardware features you cannot test (GPS, etc.), but each version of the simulator is more robust,



I can see using existing AppleTV for the basic function it currently provides, while a new AppleTV offers Video Overlay, more compelling games, etc. IOW, start enjoying the benefits and buy the new AppleTV for the family room and move the old one to the bedroom.


Also, the iAds, presumably, will be well done, interesting and targeted-- ads that you might be interested in watching...

In fact, I can see the day that you tell your AppleTV: "Here's the things I am interested in (that I am looking to buy), please show me ads in this category-- let AppleTV be your private shopper (or at least ad filter).


Porn, like water, seeks its own level!

Your other points are well tken!

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I'm afraid you've put the cart before the horse there. Providers have been, from the very beginning, more interested in offering service tiers and packages than a la carte. Regulation was necessary to force them to offer channels individually and unbundled-- although these regulations often did not specify the prices, so packages are often much cheaper than individual channels.

There is a reason for that. Content owners also want to bundle content in order to spread the risk. Content can be expensive to make, and only a few become wildly successful, a few more are mildly successful, and a great many of them are flops. Bundling forces... I mean, encourages service operators to take several cheap flops along with hit content-- whether it be individual shows sold to cable channels, or groups of channels sold by content owners to cable operators, or packages of first-run movies.

In short, the reason why cable and satellite companies offer tiers of service with packages of channels is because it is more profitable for them to do so. That, when forced to allow users freedom of choice, they price those choices intentionally to funnel subscribers towards the package is also unsurprising. However, one should not be fooled into thinking that this is a case in which a free and transparent market has driven service operators towards the package method of selling, because that is completely false-- and backwards.

Wrong! It was the Northstar nee Kentucky Fried Computer, The Ohio Scientific, The Smoke Signal Broadcasting...

... Actually, the first microcomputer was the Altair:



Fred Roberts was the inventor.

It was created in Albuquerque, NM.

Guess who wrote the BASIC for it?

See those little lights and switches-- you entered your programs and data a Byte-at-a-time...

Now, That's a UI!

http://www.vintage-computer.com/altair8800.shtml

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Has anyone thought of what the possibilities are for the iTV besides shows in the US?

I would think that Apple will introduce gaming onto the TV, with the iPad or iPhone 4 as the controller if Apple doesn't invent a controller with it. It will be run through bluetooth or wifi. The developers will jump onto this as another revenue source. I think this iPad mini that will come out might be the missing link for gaming on TV. I hope this happens.

Nice!

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Is it possible that with all my constant harping I've won my first convert?

My "iTV" remote control prediction as it stands...

• The main controller will be a WiiMote-like device
• A touch sensitive surface (magic mouse style) around the thumb area will allow limited gestures (like up-down, left-right swiping/scrolling)
• Other iDevices will be able to sync to the iTV for gaming or remote keyboards

Did anyone ever work out what this was for? Could it be the thumb button on the new WiiMote-style remote?

For anyone that hasn't seen it check here for the WiiMote patent.

Well, you don't know what you are talking about.

My first computer store was selling computers in 1978... We were selling Altairs, NorthStars, Apple ][s while you were, likely, still in short pants!

We installed our first LAN in 1980 at Saratoga High School, Saratoga, CA: 7 Apple ][ computers sharing a 5 MB Corvus Hard Disk (Only 2 Floppy drives and 1 printer for 7 computers).

I suspect that you were entering high school in 1980!

Before you got into playing games, major Fortune 500 companies were buying Apple ][s with VisiCalc (1979) to bypass the backlog and expense of IT implementing their apps on the mainframe. IT was called Data Processing, in those days, and, typically had a 2-year backlog with app study/implementation costs running into hundreds of thousands of dollars.

AIR, You could buy VisiCalc for $79, A robust Apple ][ for $2-3,000-- and you were good to go! Departmental discretionary budgets were set high: $5,000, to take some of the pressure off Data Processing.

Some of our customers included:

-- IBM
-- Coherent
-- Fairchild Schlumberger
-- Applied Materials
-- Daimler Benz
-- John Deere
-- Dysan
-- Memorex
-- Piper Jaffery
-- US Army
-- Great America
-- Adobe
-- Dean Whitter
-- Piper Jaffrey
-- EMI Thorne
-- Xerox
-- Apple Computer
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That's gotta hurt.

This seems reasonable, and fits with the high end ad-buy status iAds launched with. Apple tv cones out and the OTA broadcasters play along- stuff is free over the air, hey just broadcast it with iAds replacing regular advertising. If people want premium channels, they buy individual stations. Those stations sell their shows as apps, and can charge subscriber content, display iAds, or whatever the hell they want to do. So instead of plugging in antenna, I plug in an apple tv for ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, and for pay hannels- like MTV I buy an app. Seems perfectly plausible.

From wikipedia"Early personal computers - generally called microcomputers - were sold often in kit form and in limited volumes, and were of interest mostly to hobbyists and technicians. Minimal programming was done with toggle switches to enter instructions, and output was provided by front panel lamps. Practical use required peripherals such as keyboards, computer terminals, disk drives, and printers. Micral N was the earliest commercial, non-kit "personal" computer based on a microprocessor, the Intel 8008. It was built starting in 1972 and about 90,000 units were sold. Unlike other hobbyist computers of its day, which were sold as electronics kits, in 1976 Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak sold the Apple I computer circuit board, which was fully prepared and contained about 30 chips. The first complete personal computer was the Commodore PET introduced in January 1977. It was soon followed by the popular Apple II. Mass-market pre-assembled computers allowed a wider range of people to use computers, focusing more on software applications and less on development of the processor hardware."

Interesting...

I moved to Silicon Valley (Saratoga) in June of 1973. I worked for the IBM Palo Alto Systems Center on Page Mill Road-- across the street from HP, down the street from CMos, Commodore, Fairchild Semi, Xerox Parc, etc.

There were 4 computer stores in the area (1974-1978): Byte Shop Palo Alto (Bob Moody); ComputerLand Los Altos (Sarkus Kasugian); Byte Shop Mountain View (Boyd something); Recreational Computing Sunnyvale (Tom Vander something. Later A ComputerLand San Jose.

Working for IBM, a friend and I took long lunch walks down and up El Camino. We discovered microcomputers-- Pets, Apple 1, Cromemcos, etc. I was enthralled. Bought my Apple ][ in June 1978 and (with two partners) opened Computer, Plus Inc. Sunnyvale CA. in December 1978. Sold the stores and retired in 1989.

In all that time I never heard of the "Micral N".

Everyone I knew (including Woz, Jim Warren, John Draper) and other pioneers considered the Altair as the defining moment in microcomputers.

I am sure there were lots of concurrent systems being built/sold, but the Altair was the Model T -- it made the microcomputer popular.

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I'm looking to ditch Comcast. I pay $130 a month and watch a fraction of the stations. But it is the fraction that are important to my kids and wife. If we went with any cheaper plan then they miss their stations. I'd like an "a la carte" style of getting television but at a subscription price. My hope is that the new AppleTV (keep the name) will be just that.

The iTV becomes the accessory to the iPad ... at the same time that it is its own device.

@Cinemagic: I've got to disagree with you on this one for two reasons. Why not leave tuners to the aftermarket... There are too many ways one device would have to solve this.

Mostly, your tv has a tuner and multiple inputs. Just switch. You won't be recording to the iTV anyway. I plan to put a Mac Mini next to the iTV for Front Row access to my iTunes library anyway. iTV will probably make this unnecessary but I can attach a tuner to my Mini and use it as a DVR.

I've just decided this month that I don't like funding all the crap programming I don't watch so will be disconnecting cable TV soon anyway. This rumour seals that deal. Woot!

That was the first microcomputer, not the first personal computer. A personal computer needs at least a keyboard and a display.

Ohhh.... a very interesting way to look at it! Your own personal NetFlix streamer!

I like the idea of that!

ServeToMe/StreamToMe on the app store already do a pretty good job of streaming your private content.

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I know that the original comment was not limited to industry. This is why I did not ask about markets etc, because as I said above, it is clear that SJ has transformed multiple industries.

Here is the thing, there is an old quote by Daniel Moynihan

"everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." It is all too common for people on any number of boards to make factual assertions that are incorrect. I simply asked the poster to say which industry SJ invented.

To answer your question, I would argue that Ford invented the auto industry because he invented the production line. A look at the history of manufacturing, and you see that a product was made by one person (or group) from start to finish. Hence, the concept of the "Master" in a field. Fords invention, broke that process up, and made it possible to cheaply, rapidly, and efficiently produce cars, but it could have been any widget.

The Apple ][ did not include a display... wasn't it a Personal Computer?

Apple seems to think it was!


Edit: The early Apple ][s came with game paddles -- aren't game paddles required to qualify as a personal computer?


Sorry to be so picky, but in the early days there were 3 classes of customers for microcomputers:

-- hobbyist
-- home personal
-- business

The Apple ]] was the first easy to sell/install/support computer for home personal use -- you bought a $7 RF Modulator and connected it to any TV or a separate B/W monitor.

With the release of VisiCalc, the Apple ][ was the first microcomputer to penetrate business.

The Apple ][ was never much of a hobbyist machine-- they got off (like the techies of today) rolling their own & building S!00 bus boxes.

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I do not deny that Apple makes products better, but SJ did not invent the App store. And yes, there was a central location, it was called something like Handango.

why should I ask that question, when the answer is clear, and undeniable. Yes Apple has transformed multiple industries, but that was not part of the original assertion to which I was responding

Besides, the original poster made a factual assertion, and I simply asked them to supply an answer.

Your post is, in some respects, all to common - if someone does not like something, they try and change the topic or change the question.

One would have to hope that isn't the case... but I wouldn't be surprised.

It's hard to fathom how Microsoft aren't killing it in this area. They have one of the best (if not the best) 10' interfaces available, one of the best home server products available, powerful cloud service and distribution potential, a strong gaming division with an established game/media store and pretty much the most experience with IPTV of any company on Gods green earth.

It's like they have all the pieces but they don't have anyone that can put them together.

From what I can see there is very little (if anything) the "iTV" could do that Microsoft couldn't already achieve with their existing services, a software update to the Xbox 360 and possibly a cheap Microsoft branded Media Center-only device based on Windows 7 Embedded.

However, like you say, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't act until they are already behind Apple and Google in the market.

iTV:
Slideout keyboard, two batteries.

Yes...I am, along with any other new media types.

I expect an app store enabled aTV to appear. I don't expect DVR capabilities or any of the other "required" functionality as these are all done by other boxes and making this seamless is beyond the control of Apple...or even TiVO given the annoyance that cablecards can be on some cable networks.

I'm not believing the $99 price point either. I'll believe $199...$99 seems to inexpensive and $199 compares to the Wii in terms of price...and with $10-$15 casual games I'll buy one just for that. Heck, even if the new price point for top tier aTV games are $20 that'd be a great alternative to casual console gaming vs the Wii.

And that would be a real game changer.

Only thing that worries me about iTV and the whole streaming content thing is the ISP. I've got premium service (?!?!?!) with Cox and lately I can't seem to watch more tha 5 minutes of Netflix before it pauses and recalibrates. This with supposedly 20 m download speed and a gigabit home network. And we all know about AT&T's track record as our mobile ISP. This is why I like the download method. Or perhaps better buffeting would do it. Hear that netflix?

I dont think its up to apple. Its the movie producers asosiations and tv-corporations that are the break in the matter. They dont want to make content watchable in the whole world at the same time. Anybody who wants to show a movie or tv-series (from the states) have to make an agreement on a national level for making the content watchable. They cant make an aggreement of the whole world at the same time. No that would be too easy.
All the people in the world arent equal in the eyes of the film/tv-industry (not even in the industrial countries). Why do we have regions in DVD:s? TV/Film-industry is facing the same battle that the music industry lost allready. It seems that they have copied every aspect of the loosing side.

Aslong as film/tv-industry isnt seeing their best intrest they will not make content available as a worldwide service via eg itunes or other service. I think this is because people are lazy and want to take the certain path that they know works now. but fail to see that it leads nowhere. The world is changing even if they dont want it to. Its time that the producers wake up to reallity and be part of the change even if the changephaze may be unconfortable but they should look at the new posibilities also....

On-demand-TV is the future of TV. YouTube is a great proof of concept.
Because it fits better into the busy day schedule of a lot of people.

Many suggest "Recording" as a key feature:
Recording feature is NOT needed, because it will mostly be "video on demand"! = TV-networks happy.


Also, VOD could potentially speed up the international process, bypassing local TV-networks and different TV-standards. Probably easier to manage.

Absolutely fabulous question! In some odd way, using my iPad as a remote cheapens it.

I was young, I had too much free time and my standards were low. You're right, you can easily see how bad it is after even a matter of weeks.


The TV market is huge and to absolutely destroy Flash, they just need a mass-market media consumption device. They've done it with the iOS devices to an extent but the price will still put a lot of people off.


I was thinking of the Airport Express as you mentioned:

http://www.apple.com/airportexpress/

Then if you open an ipod touch, you see the last image here:

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPod-...eardown/1158/1

The large grey middle bit is the battery so you really just need the top and bottom. You get bluetooth so no need for line-of-sight IR and you can automatically use the bluetooth magic pad and keyboard or pair up your ipod touch as a remote.


They sell the iPod Touch for $199. Take off the screen and battery, have a cheaper manufacturing process and they can hit $99. Even if it's a very low profit-margin device, they'll make some money on content. This kind of device would just give them some control over content distribution and advertising. Think of all the service providers who sell proprietary cable boxes, now everyone has the same box with the same functionality.


Yeah but it won't run packaged binaries on the App Store without translation and most likely the new iTV will be ARM-based and they won't maintain two native binaries. I think in the interests of being eco-friendly, they should convince people to give up their old ATVs.


That's a good idea. No more will the single guy have to endure ads for tampons, thrush cream and hair products that need you to take more than one bottle into the shower. And if you're a parent, you can block all the ads for kids so they don't get big ideas about how to spend your money at Christmas. It also gives advertisers a way to track interest better as they can get usage data back (subject to a user agreement) like you can with Google ads. Targeted advertising will have a better return on investment so advertising is cheaper and less prevalent - that will be the start of the end for the TV because advertisers will look for the best value and when that funding goes, the TV subscription cost goes up or they go broke.

It's a multitouch capacitive dimmer switch for SJs new house.