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Verizon, Apple iPhone talks continue toward possible 2011 launch

post #1 of 47
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A potential deal between Apple and Verizon -- which could result in a CDMA iPhone capable of simultaneous voice and data -- is still being ironed out, according to one Wall Street analyst.

Shaw Wu with Kaufman Bros. issued a note to investors on Monday, in which he said he expects Apple to expand the iPhone to another carrier in the U.S. next year. Apple needs this, he said, to maintain high growth, as the company's smartphone nears saturation on the AT&T network.

The current front-runner is Verizon, which is said to be in talks with Apple for a "SVDO" iPhone which would allow both voice and data at the same time, something not possible with a traditional CDMA phone on Verizon's network.

While Wu believes that the iPhone will eventually come to Verizon, that could happen as late as 2012, he said, if Apple decided instead to go another route: both T-Mobile and Sprint.

"It is notable that signing up both T-Mobile USA and Sprint would almost be the equivalent of Verizon (in terms of subscribers)," he said. "For point of reference, AT&T has 90 million wireless subscribers compared to 93 million at Verizon, 48 million at Sprint, and 34 million at T-Mobile USA."

Wu said sources have indicated to him that important details are still being ironed out between Verizon and Apple, including technology and economics. But while the companies are in talks, he said it would be "premature" to rule out T-Mobile and Sprint.

However, the growth of Android on the Verizon network also provides Apple with an incentive to make the iPhone available on the carrier, he said. Making the iPhone available to Verizon customers would be the best way to address the growing presence of Android phones, Wu wrote.

While Apple and Verizon are said to be eying SVDO for the iPhone for now, the companies are said to be viewing that option as an interim device until a full-fledged long-term evolution (LTE) 4G phone debuts in a few years.

"From AAPL's perspective, the debate is whether it makes sense to roll out an interim CDMA iPhone sometime in 2011 or perhaps wait until LTE becomes more available in 2012," Wu wrote.

Reports of a deal between Verizon and Apple are, of course, nothing new, and have persisted for years. But recently, a number of rumors have pointed toward a January 2011 launch for a CDMA iPhone available on the largest wireless network in the U.S., Verizon.

Apple has reportedly gone as far as to build early CDMA iPhones that are currently in the engineering verification test phase. That is one step below device verification test, or DVT status, which takes place right before production. The iPhone 4 handset that was found in a bar this year was a DVT handset.
post #2 of 47
Not holding my breath... Seriously, I'll believe it when I see it.
post #3 of 47
I haven't heard the fat lady sing yet on this deal...
post #4 of 47
It's always 'next year' ... sigh.
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post #5 of 47
I will laugh very loudly if they forgo Verizon altogether. All these stupid people that I know that think their service on Verizon is so great, that they've held onto it the last four years and even renewed their contracts, all the while complaining about the sh*t phone they own, and wishing they had an iPhone. Sorry, but I'd rather buy the phone I want and be done with, rather than spend 4 (or more) years wishing I had a different phone, for no reason other than rumors of poor service.

People on Verizon must think I'm lying when I tell them I've never dropped a call on AT&T with 4 iPhones, nor have ever had a complaint about service. What frigging idiots people are.
post #6 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

However, the growth of Android on the Verizon network also provides Apple with an incentive to make the iPhone available on the carrier, he said. Making the iPhone available to Verizon customers would be the best way to address the growing presence of Android phones, Wu wrote.
[/c]



Android is no competition to Apple. It is all fragmented and only geeks buy it.
post #7 of 47
It is quite simple in my situation, if I am to be an iPhone owner, It'll need to be available on Verizon for the basic reason that Verizon is the only one that provides wireless service in my area of the world (I'm part of that 3% that AT&T doesn't cover, and I might, on a very good day, be in the fringe areas of Sprint and T-Mobile's territory). If I never get the iPhone, I'm OK with that too. There's plenty of other Apple products I can enjoy and be productive with.
post #8 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

I will laugh very loudly if they forgo Verizon altogether. All these stupid people that I know that think their service on Verizon is so great, that they've held onto it the last four years and even renewed their contracts, all the while complaining about the sh*t phone they own, and wishing they had an iPhone. Sorry, but I'd rather buy the phone I want and be done with, rather than spend 4 (or more) years wishing I had a different phone, for no reason other than rumors of poor service.

People on Verizon must think I'm lying when I tell them I've never dropped a call on AT&T with 4 iPhones, nor have ever had a complaint about service. What frigging idiots people are.

Don't think you're lying, but it depends on what city you live in. Just ask those that live in San Francisco or New York. I live in Cincinnati, OH, and I used to have AT&T, and can tell you that I've dropped calls and had places just over the Indiana border where I had no service at all. Don't know how much their service has improved in my area in the last few years, but my own experience has been immensely better with Verizon - so much so that I'd rather use a Droid and Verizon than an iPhone and AT&T. Personally, I'm waiting and hoping for a Verizon - Apple deal. I can move to the Droid now, but have chosen to wait out until the early part of 2011 to see what becomes of all this CDMA iPhone/Verizon rumor stuff. All I can do is wait and see at this point in time.
post #9 of 47
Well, if Shaw Wu is predicting this, then it is less likely to actually happen.

My guess is that Verizon's chance of getting an iPhone is now about 15-20%.
post #10 of 47
the iPhone to ALL other carriers.

They say that Apple and AT&T are getting near the saturation point that's not good, as most iPhones users won't purchase a new iPhone just cuz, and Apple needs / wants to increase the number of folks walking around with an iPhone, and that ONLY happens with added carriers.

So, will it happen, yes! When is the real question, and with whom?

Skip

PS I say, blow the doors wide open, and offer a iPhone for any carrier willing to pay the price, then watch the numbers go through the roof!
post #11 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by SendMe View Post

Android is no competition to Apple. It is all fragmented and only geeks buy it.

Huh... From the massive sales its having worldwide, it seems the whole world must be geeks then.
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post #12 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

It's always 'next year' ... sigh.

That's no worse than being always 'next week'
post #13 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

Huh... From the massive sales its having worldwide, it seems the whole world must be geeks then.

I'm not a fan, but would agree. My son, daughter and 4 other workers wanted iPhones until they looked at the new evo or whatever in hell it's called. Not to mention the deal the company got. 5 top of the line phones, with unlimited everything, web access and more from Sprint for $198.00 a month, for ALL 5 phones.

Sucks not being able to get 5 iPhones for that price, but these phones are incredible.

Skip

PS The service (Maine) and coverage is ok, but not as good as Verizon
post #14 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post

Well, if Shaw Wu is predicting this, then it is less likely to actually happen.

My guess is that Verizon's chance of getting an iPhone is now about 15-20%.

Jeez... Is he still employed? Talk about clueless managers. Where are his?

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post #15 of 47
Even if it was on Verizon, I wouldn't switch. I've had less problems with AT&T in just over two years than we did with Verizon for nearly six years prior.
post #16 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe hs View Post

That's no worse than being always 'next week'

Either way the metaphor works. Perhaps I should have said 'manjana' to emphasize the generalized intent of my meaning
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post #17 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

Huh... From the massive sales its having worldwide, it seems the whole world must be geeks then.

SendMe is a ClickBait Troll.

.
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post #18 of 47
I thought it was impossible to do voice/data at the same time on CDMA?
post #19 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

It's always 'next year' ... sigh.

Every few years (over the last 15 or so) I have seen articles talking about how widespread consumer holographic storage is "just 5 years away". Everything is ALWAYS next year
post #20 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncee View Post

I'm not a fan, but would agree. My son, daughter and 4 other workers wanted iPhones until they looked at the new evo or whatever in hell it's called. Not to mention the deal the company got. 5 top of the line phones, with unlimited everything, web access and more from Sprint for $198.00 a month, for ALL 5 phones.

Sucks not being able to get 5 iPhones for that price, but these phones are incredible.

Skip

PS The service (Maine) and coverage is ok, but not as good as Verizon

What did they pay for the phones, themselves.

We have 2 iPhones-- iP4 and 3GS ($299 each) and 3 kiddie-phones (Avg $40 each).

The 2 iPhones have 2GB data, the others none! All have unlimited messaging.

Our bill is about $220 per month.

We have about $800 up front costs for all the phones, activation, taxes, etc.


The kids each have an older unactivated iPhone as an iPod Touch / Game Player, etc.


So, if anyone wants to sell me service for 5 iPhones, unlimited everything at $198/month... I'd play!

I'd even sell the existing iPhones and buy new ones... hmmm....

.
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post #21 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by storneo View Post

I thought it was impossible to do voice/data at the same time on CDMA?

http://www.wmexperts.com/cdma-develo...data-same-time

SVDO is an upgrade for CDMA. This article is from a year ago tho, not sure which carriers have opted to use it to date.
post #22 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Either way the metaphor works. Perhaps I should have said 'manjana' to emphasize the generalized intent of my meaning

Perhaps instead you should have said, "mañana".

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post #23 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Either way the metaphor works. Perhaps I should have said 'manjana' to emphasize the generalized intent of my meaning

What I was trying to say, was that one way or another verizon iPhone rumors have been circulating since 2007 and we still havnt seen one yet.
post #24 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by storneo View Post

I thought it was impossible to do voice/data at the same time on CDMA?

Did you even READ the story??? My guess is no based on your question...try reading the story again
post #25 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

Huh... From the massive sales its having worldwide, it seems the whole world must be geeks then.

Why do people still respond to SendMe? He's a troll, only pretending to be an Apple Zealot. I expect him to propose marriage to Steve-O any time now and no doubt some people will take him seriously.
post #26 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

I will laugh very loudly if they forgo Verizon altogether. All these stupid people that I know that think their service on Verizon is so great, that they've held onto it the last four years and even renewed their contracts, all the while complaining about the sh*t phone they own, and wishing they had an iPhone. Sorry, but I'd rather buy the phone I want and be done with, rather than spend 4 (or more) years wishing I had a different phone, for no reason other than rumors of poor service.

People on Verizon must think I'm lying when I tell them I've never dropped a call on AT&T with 4 iPhones, nor have ever had a complaint about service. What frigging idiots people are.

I guess it depends on where you live. I get good coverage from both but AT&T is actually better in my home than verizonso no reason for me to be at all worried about when/if the verizon iPhone is coming. But judging by the many complaints though, some people seem to need the verizon optionespecially in some parts out west.
post #27 of 47
zzz...
post #28 of 47
I was an advocate of the LTE theory, saying T-Mo is more likely then Verizon. Now however, I gotta say that apple is unhappy enough with ATT upload glitches and tethering delays and fees that it might just go to Verizon, swallow the cost just to break out of one carrier prison.
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post #29 of 47
Every other report/rumor about a Verizon iPhone indicates that they are well into the mid to final stages of testing and that they have already placed an order for CDMA chips with Qualcomm. It doesn't make sense that Verizon and Apple would be taking economics and technology, unless they're already talking about future technology beyond the original release of a CDMA iPhone.

After that Shaw Wu goes on to sound like a complete fool to suggest that Apple may forgo Verizon and support both Sprint and T-mobile. So now Apple is going to support 3 iphones and still not have Verizon ? He goes on to say that T-mobile and Sprint have a subscriber base that approaches Verizon. What he doesn't say that a huge percentage of Sprint's base are prepaid customers through their various brands and much of T-mobile's base are corporate accounts to cheap to go with Verizon. This is who he thinks Apple is going to sell iPhones to ?
post #30 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

It's always 'next year' ... sigh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe hs View Post

What I was trying to say, was that one way or another verizon iPhone rumors have been circulating since 2007 and we still havnt seen one yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by storneo View Post

I thought it was impossible to do voice/data at the same time on CDMA?

Sure, the rumors have been circulating for awhile, but if folks bothered actually paying attention to the rumors (and weeding out the obviously stupid ones), for the past couple of years nearly all of the rumors have pointed to the end of 2010 as when the Verizon phone would come. Too many people heard the rumors and assumed they meant it would be just around the corner without actually reading the whole rumor. And when it didn't come true just assumed the rumor was untrue (vs that they just didn't understand the rumor in the first place).

All of the even mildly credible rumors took into account the technology roadmaps that come into play. One of the which addresses the myth that it is impossible for CDMA to do simultaneous voice and data. But it's been known for over a year that the hardware required to allow this was to become available in the 3rd quarter of 2010. Myself and others have repeatedly pointed this out here and elsewhere, but people ignored it because it didn't fit into their view of reality that Apple would "never" make a Verizon iPhone. And if simultaneous voice/data was possible that took away their #1 reason why Verizon wouldn't get the iPhone. So they ignore the facts in order to debunk the rumor.

I've stated repeatedly, and been criticized for it, there is NO technological reason for Apple to not create a Verizon iPhone. The business decision to form a partnership with Verizon (and currently the manufacturing capacity) is the only thing preventing it from happening...and all in the timeframe of most of the rumors that have come up in the last year or so...namely the end of 2010/early 2011.
post #31 of 47
May be the CDMA iPhone is for China Mobile, which has 559M subscribers, although most of them are still in 2G, but if only 10% get iPhone, it is over 55M subscribers, equal to 60% of Verizon subscribers.
post #32 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by cy2468 View Post

May be the CDMA iPhone is for China Mobile, which has 559M subscribers, although most of them are still in 2G, but if only 10% get iPhone, it is over 55M subscribers, equal to 60% of Verizon subscribers.

Why not china mobile AND verizon?
post #33 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolcat View Post

Did you even READ the story??? My guess is no based on your question...try reading the story again

Of course, I read the story. How else would I have formed a question based on the stories contents? I have always read here (and elsewhere) voice/data wasn't possible on CDMA. And, as far as I can tell, it still isn't possible currently because the networks need some sort of update to make it happen?! So why would this rumor make this statement if, currently, voice/data on CDMA isn't possible? So they plan on making the network update then release the IP4 for Verizon on an untested network? If you don't have something positive to contribute, then just keep your thoughts to yourself.
post #34 of 47
I think January will bring the iPhone to all 3 other major carriers - Verizon, Sprint, and T-Mobile.
post #35 of 47
Apple is doomed
Oh, this time Android is doomed
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post #36 of 47
We can all relax about this, because it isn't going to happen for a while. Android is gaining ground but presently would get crushed by iOS at the local VZW store. Google, apple, and Verizon all know this.

Verizon is quasi-publicly negotiating with apple to get more cash and other concessions out of Google. Remember, Google is what a casino would call a "whale." Apple has lots of cash, too, but Steve makes money from hardware, not ads (presently) and isn't in the philanthropy business, as your wallets may have noticed. Google's cash is worth more to VZW than Apple's because (1) Google will pay more/take less per handset because they are at a disadvantage, and (2) Verizon has EVERY REASON IN THE WORLD to want two platforms to battle against each other, rather than invite the death grip of a platform monopoly.

Maybe Apple will and their exclusivity, maybe not, or maybe they will dabble in CDMA abroad. All feasible. But for now, Android isn't ready to be taken off life support.
post #37 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by storneo View Post

Of course, I read the story. How else would I have formed a question based on the stories contents? I have always read here (and elsewhere) voice/data wasn't possible on CDMA. And, as far as I can tell, it still isn't possible currently because the networks need some sort of update to make it happen?! So why would this rumor make this statement if, currently, voice/data on CDMA isn't possible? So they plan on making the network update then release the IP4 for Verizon on an untested network? If you don't have something positive to contribute, then just keep your thoughts to yourself.

The network protocols of CDMA are not setup to do both simutaniously. There was talk to revise the protocols to allow, but most likely will need to wait until LTE is deploy.
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post #38 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by boeyc15 View Post

The network protocols of CDMA are not setup to do both simutaniously. There was talk to revise the protocols to allow, but most likely will need to wait until LTE is deploy.

SVDO has been possible for a year now and if the networks have been upgraded, this is the quarter we would be seeing the results. I posted a link about SVDO above
post #39 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damn_Its_Hot View Post

I haven't heard the fat lady sing yet on this deal...

I'm not even sure I hear her humming.
post #40 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by benny-boy View Post

We can all relax about this, because it isn't going to happen for a while.

And you know this how?

Quote:
Originally Posted by benny-boy View Post

But for now, Android isn't ready to be taken off life support.

What world are you living in?

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...es_iphone.html
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