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Darwin's idea of "Survival of the fittest" debunked... - Page 9

post #321 of 450
9/3/10 at 12:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Not RELEVANT?

OK. Make up your own definition of "fascism". Make up your own understanding of global politics. Make up your own version of the global context in which Barack Obama administration is functioning.

And pussy out when you're called on it.

You want to be able to call Barack Obama a "fascist".

But the only way you can do it is by making shit up and refusing to defend it.



DAMN fucking right.

It's okay sweetie. You'll be okay. But you might want to clean that spittle off your screen and wipe the froth off the corners of your mouth.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #322 of 450
9/3/10 at 12:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

It's okay sweetie. You'll be okay. But you might want to clean that spittle off your screen and wipe the froth off the corners of your mouth.

Chris Matthews has taught him well.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #323 of 450
9/3/10 at 12:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Chris Matthews has taught him well.

I knew there was something familiar about all this. That's almost exactly how Matthews runs his show!

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #324 of 450
9/3/10 at 1:29pm
I keep seeing new posts in the "Darwin debunked" thread, and I get excited thinking maybe someone has finally shown some evidence (if not proof) of the existence of a god!
But no, just more off topic posting that's more-or-less verbatim from the "Support Obama's policies" thread.

(yes, I know I contributed a little, but there IS another thread for that... I'd really like to hear more about how "Survival of the Fittest" has been debunked... )
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #325 of 450
9/3/10 at 1:36pm
No idea who 'Matthews' is, lollipop, but credit where credit's due.

Babe, you are spectacularly good at making pussying look like a virtue.

I suppose Sarah Palin has taught you well.

Honeysuckle.
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post #326 of 450
9/3/10 at 2:34pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
MJ, Mumbo has asked you some very pointed questions that you flat out refuse to answer. It just makes you look like a fool who knows he's wrong but just can't admit it publicly. If you really have the truth on your side as you claim, would it really hurt to take Mumbo's questions seriously and ACTUALLY ANSWER them? Stop acting like a petulant child and converse like an adult.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #327 of 450
9/3/10 at 2:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

MJ, Mumbo has asked you some very pointed questions that you flat out refuse to answer.

He's asked several irrelevant questions, yes. He has also persisted in being insulting and coming just short of name calling. I recognize this as a typical liberal/progressive/leftist tactic when someone doesn't fall in line and agree with their view of the world. But alas, I don't let it bother me.

And, yes, I refused to be dragged (or "shamed") down his irrelevant rabbit trail. None of his questions actually get to the question whether some of Obama's economic policies are, in fact, fascist/corporatist in nature.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

It just makes you look like a fool who knows he's wrong but just can't admit it publicly.

Thanks for your opinion on that matter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

If you really have the truth on your side as you claim, would it really hurt to take Mumbo's questions seriously and ACTUALLY ANSWER them?

If his questions were worth taking seriously, I'd answer them. But they are classic attempt to divert away from the actual claim I've made. If you read the questions carefully you'd see that. If you look back at my posts, you'll also see that I posted some links that support my claim, minimally, about the definition of economic fascism/corporatism I have been using.

Now back to Darwinism.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #328 of 450
9/3/10 at 2:52pm
Just so everyone can see, here are the questions I asked.

MJ1970 thinks that Barack Obama is a "fascist."

So I asked him:

Quote:
MJ1970, given that the United States of America is the world's biggest economy and has the world's biggest military, do you believe that if Barack Obama were to implement fascist policies that they would pass without causing a radical realignment in international politics?

MJ1970, why do you think that this has not happened? Why do you think that diplomatic relations with virtually every single nation on the planet have improved under Barack Obama? Why do you think that no one has noticed, passed comment, been given any cause for alarm at the new fascist policies being implemented in the United States of America?

MJ1970, do you believe that Barack Obama's administration is to the right of the conservative coalition running Germany, in that he is a "fascist? Or is he to the left of the government of Sweden, in that he is a "socialist"?

MJ1970, do you believe that anyone in the world other than a small minority of extremely right wing Americans believes that Barack Obama is implementing "fascist" policies?

These are the questions that MJ1970 will not answer.

He wants to be able to call Barack Obama a "fascist", but he doesn't actually want to have to seriously discuss it.

So. Have a look at these questions, and while you're reading them, bear in mind that MJ1970 wants to call Barack Obama a "fascist" but doesn't have the balls to answer them.
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post #329 of 450
9/3/10 at 3:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Just so everyone can see, here are the questions I asked.

MJ1970 thinks that Barack Obama is a "fascist."

So I asked him:



These are the questions that MJ1970 will not answer.

He wants to be able to call Barack Obama a "fascist", but he doesn't actually want to have to seriously discuss it.

So. Have a look at these questions, and while you're reading them, bear in mind that MJ1970 wants to call Barack Obama a "fascist" but doesn't have the balls to answer them.

Really sweetie...it's okay. No need to get all upset.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #330 of 450
9/3/10 at 3:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Really sweetie...it's okay. No need to get all upset.

Lollipop, do I seem upset?

Why don't you re-read my post. You see? I'm fine, really, hon.

Now. Why don't you answer my questions?

These ones:

Quote:
MJ1970, given that the United States of America is the world's biggest economy and has the world's biggest military, do you believe that if Barack Obama were to implement fascist policies that they would pass without causing a radical realignment in international politics?

MJ1970, why do you think that this has not happened? Why do you think that diplomatic relations with virtually every single nation on the planet have improved under Barack Obama? Why do you think that no one has noticed, passed comment, been given any cause for alarm at the new fascist policies being implemented in the United States of America?

MJ1970, do you believe that Barack Obama's administration is to the right of the conservative coalition running Germany, in that he is a "fascist? Or is he to the left of the government of Sweden, in that he is a "socialist"?

MJ1970, do you believe that anyone in the world other than a small minority of extremely right wing Americans believes that Barack Obama is implementing "fascist" policies?
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post #331 of 450
9/3/10 at 3:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Now. Why don't you answer my questions?

I've told you why. Do you have a reading comprehension problem?

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post #332 of 450
9/3/10 at 3:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I've told you why. Do you have a reading comprehension problem?

Absolutely not.

You have a courage problem.

You claim that Barack Obama is implementing fascist policies. I try and discuss it.

I even ask

Quote:
MJ1970, do you believe that Barack Obama's administration is to the right of the conservative coalition running Germany, in that he is a "fascist? Or is he to the left of the government of Sweden, in that he is a "socialist"?

So. I'm asking you a direct question about Barack Obama's place in the political spectrum and you don't even have the courage to answer that. You claim that a direct question on the exact subject at hand is "irrelevant". And you won't even explain why.

It's because the notion is indefensible. You want to say that Barack Obama's a fascist and you don't have the courage to discuss it.



Poor MJ1970.
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post #333 of 450
9/3/10 at 3:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Absolutely not.

And yet, you keep asking why I won't answer despite my repeated explanations.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

You have a courage problem.

You've made your opinion clear.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

You claim that Barack Obama is implementing fascist policies.

Yes. I also provided a couple of links that define this labeling. Have you read those?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Poor MJ1970.




Now back to Darwinism.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #334 of 450
9/3/10 at 3:39pm
Thanks for all that, opinions noted, etc.

But lollipop, I can't help noticing that you didn't answer the question

Quote:
MJ1970, do you believe that Barack Obama's administration is to the right of the conservative coalition running Germany, in that he is a "fascist"? Or is he to the left of the government of Sweden, in that he is a "socialist"?

Only we're talking about whether or not Barack Obama is a fascist, so I thought I'd ask a question about whether or not you think Barack Obama is a fascist.

Thanks, pet.
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post #335 of 450
9/3/10 at 5:17pm
Mumbo has exposed the truth. Spittle or not, it's abundantly clear that MJ has absolutely no idea what Fascism is, but whatever it is, Obama is a fascist! He has no idea what Socialism is, but whatever it is, it's really really really bad and Europe doesn't count because um... well... because the US isn't Europe! Or something.
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post #336 of 450
9/4/10 at 9:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Mumbo has exposed the truth. Spittle or not, it's abundantly clear that MJ has absolutely no idea what Fascism is, but whatever it is, Obama is a fascist! He has no idea what Socialism is, but whatever it is, it's really really really bad and Europe doesn't count because um... well... because the US isn't Europe! Or something.

Socialists are healthy people who do not worry about their retirement and their health care costs but pay more tax and have 6 weeks vacation per year.

Fascists are right wing extremists who want to be ruled by industry and say things like: "Dear Mr. BP forgive us that we want you to pay for cleaning up your own mess, now can we lick off your smegma".

Simply put.

M(ystic) J(oe) 1870 is no older than 12. If he/she/it is, we can draw other conclusions.
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #337 of 450
9/5/10 at 6:57am
Hmmm? I got a reply from Jazzy on this but I still haven't heard from MJ on this. So I'll ask a 3rd time.

Here's the previouis question : Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac
The same for you MJ. Do you believe things like the earth is only 6,000 years old?

Let's hear your position on that.

Well MJ I don't seem to see a reply from you on this question so I thought I'd try again.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #338 of 450
9/5/10 at 7:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Hmmm? I got a reply from Jazzy on this but I still haven't heard from MJ on this. So I'll ask a 3rd time.

Here's the previouis question : Quote:

Quote:
Do you believe things like the earth is only 6,000 years old?

Things like the earth?!

I assume you mean do I believe the earth is only 6,000 years old?

No, I don't. What relevance does my view of the age of the planet have?

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post #339 of 450
9/5/10 at 1:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

No, I don't. What relevance does my view of the age of the planet have?

Because some people DO believe the earth is only about 6000 years old. It's a litmus test. If they're willing to BELIEVE that, then there's no need to listen to any opinion they may have.
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #340 of 450
9/5/10 at 6:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

Because some people DO believe the earth is only about 6000 years old. It's a litmus test. If they're willing to BELIEVE that, then there's no need to listen to any opinion they may have.

While it might be a valid reason to dismiss someone's opinion, one should be careful to not dismiss that person's arguments because of this. This is the more common reason (and tactic).

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post #341 of 450
9/5/10 at 11:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

While it might be a valid reason to dismiss someone's opinion, one should be careful to not dismiss that person's arguments because of this. This is the more common reason (and tactic).

I have yet to see any creationist present a single viable argument against the science of evolution. It's all opinion. What they do try to argue is that they should be free to suppress the science of evolution in the classroom (or in the home classroom) if they want to, and their argument tiptoes around science and presents to be about freedom. But that's akin to saying they should be free to choose not to teach their kids how to read.

You may or may not agree with that statement, MJ, but I have another question for you whether you equate it to the science of evolution or not: Should home schoolers be free to choose not to teach their kids how to read?
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post #342 of 450
9/6/10 at 1:53am
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
If he's at all internally consistent, he'd have to say yes. So I'm guessing no. Maybe he'll prove me wrong and actually take one of his arguments to the logical conclusion for once.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #343 of 450
9/6/10 at 3:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

If he's at all internally consistent, he'd have to say yes. So I'm guessing no. Maybe he'll prove me wrong and actually take one of his arguments to the logical conclusion for once.

He'll dismiss the question as "irrelevant."
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post #344 of 450
9/6/10 at 7:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I have yet to see any creationist present a single viable argument against the science of evolution. It's all opinion. What they do try to argue is that they should be free to suppress the science of evolution in the classroom (or in the home classroom) if they want to, and their argument tiptoes around science and presents to be about freedom. But that's akin to saying they should be free to choose not to teach their kids how to read.

You may or may not agree with that statement, MJ, but I have another question for you whether you equate it to the science of evolution or not: Should home schoolers be free to choose not to teach their kids how to read?

I do not. But then I don't believe that teaching pseudo-science and teaching reading are the same thing. In fact I do think that teaching reading, writing, basic arithmetic and the scientific method should be required. These give children the minimal tools necessary to get through life, including studying, researching anything else they want. They would then be amply equipped to determine for themselves the veracity of the claims of Evolutionists.

Requiring home schooled students to be taught the basics (e.g., reading, writing, math, scientific method...I would also add logic...but then kids with the ability to think logically might undermine the propagandists in our country) are like requiring they be fed well, clothed and sheltered.

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post #345 of 450
9/6/10 at 8:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Things like the earth?!

I assume you mean do I believe the earth is only 6,000 years old?

No, I don't. What relevance does my view of the age of the planet have?

It's a big part of this thread and you seem to be supporting that side.

Just a question and you gave a rational response. And you could read the sentence in context as in " Do you believe things like that? " However I should have replaced " is " with " are ". My bad.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #346 of 450
9/6/10 at 8:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

It's a big part of this thread and you seem to be supporting that side.

So?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Just a question and you gave a rational response.

Thanks for your approval.

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post #347 of 450
9/6/10 at 8:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I do not. But then I don't believe that teaching pseudo-science and teaching reading are the same thing. In fact I do think that teaching reading, writing, basic arithmetic and the scientific method should be required. These give children the minimal tools necessary to get through life, including studying, researching anything else they want. They would then be amply equipped to determine for themselves the veracity of the claims of Evolutionists.

Requiring home schooled students to be taught the basics (e.g., reading, writing, math, scientific method...I would also add logic...but then kids with the ability to think logically might undermine the propagandists in our country) are like requiring they be fed well, clothed and sheltered.

Is evolution "pseudo-science"? Exactly what scientific evidence does it lack to be considered "real" science?
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post #348 of 450
9/6/10 at 8:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Is evolution "pseudo-science"? Exactly what scientific evidence does it lack to be considered "real" science?

Tell you what, why don't you tell me exactly what "evolution science" means to you. What does "evolution science" encompass? What does it not include? Are its claims falsifiable?

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post #349 of 450
9/6/10 at 8:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

So?




Thanks for your approval.

Quote:
So?

So I asked.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #350 of 450
9/6/10 at 8:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Tell you what, why don't you tell me exactly what "evolution science" means to you. What does "evolution science" encompass? What does it not include? Are its claims falsifiable?

You first. Evolution is science. When 99.9% of secular scientists agree with me, it's not my responsibility to prove my point.
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post #351 of 450
9/6/10 at 8:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

You first. Evolution is science. When 99.9% of secular scientists agree with me, it's not my responsibility to prove my point.

I'm asking you to tell me what "evolution" means to you, not to a bunch of other people and not even whether "evolution is science." In your more educated, more informed, more knowledgable position what does evolution encompass? When that word is used, what comes to your mind?

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post #352 of 450
9/6/10 at 8:43am
Do you visit science and anthropology blogs, MJ1970?

I do. And one of my favourites is this. Dianekes.

I learn a lot there.

There was a fascinating article on the genetic legacy of Neanderthal DNA in modern human populations last month. A lot of arguing.

Fascinating article on recent adaptation of Tibetan mountain dwellers to low-oxygen environments in July. http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2010/07...-for-high.html Looks like Tibetans positively select haplotypes of EGLN1 and PPARA (a decreased hemoglobin phenotype unique to this highland population!) Comparing Tibetans to close genetic relatives, it looks like this evolutionary adaptation is less than 3,000 old!

Really interesting article on non-recombining Y-chromosomal microsatellites (mutation rates, characteristics, molecular bases and so on) with the implications for population histories, deep human history and forensic police work up there right now.

While you talk about "pseudo-science" and "propaganda", extremely gifted and experienced scientists are talking to each other, describing their discoveries to each other, and they don't really care if you're convinced or not.

Do you read this stuff? Go and have a look!

Because you really should be quiet if you don't understand what you're talking about.
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post #353 of 450
9/6/10 at 9:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Tell you what, why don't you tell me exactly what "evolution science" means to you. What does "evolution science" encompass? What does it not include? Are its claims falsifiable?

Evolution does NOT mean monkeys turned into people. NOONE that understands the science behind "on the origin of species" believes that.

Evolution DOES mean... "here's where the evidence leads us... this is how we currently think things came about... bring us new evidence and we'll alter our model." They've also learned that the more we learn, and the more technology advances, the more evidence we are finding to support the "theory".
That same science leads people to understand that there is NO evidence for creation, and until you come up with some it should not be taught as anything other than myth.

I DO homeschool my children, they get a better education than they would in the public school system. I make sure they understand the scientific method... they can come to their own conclusion about mythical gods. They studied christian mythology right along with greek, roman, and norse mythology... (though I have no illusions that my own opinions are hugely influential to my children.)

What they DON'T do, is believe the earth is hundreds of millions of years old simply because I told them so... they know the evidence that supports that fact.
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #354 of 450
9/6/10 at 9:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

Evolution does NOT mean monkeys turned into people. NOONE that understands the science behind "on the origin of species" believes that.

OK. We're off to a good start. You're telling us what evolution is not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

Evolution DOES mean... "here's where the evidence leads us... this is how we currently think things came about... bring us new evidence and we'll alter our model."

Here's where things get a little fuzzy. Could you be more precise in regard to this statement?


Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

I DO homeschool my children, they get a better education than they would in the public school system.

Of that there can be very little doubt.

Same here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

I make sure they understand the scientific method...

Same here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

they can come to their own conclusion about mythical gods. They studied christian mythology right along with greek, roman, and norse mythology... (though I have no illusions that my own opinions are hugely influential to my children.)

I thought we were discussing evolution here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

What they DON'T do, is believe the earth is hundreds of millions of years old simply because I told them so... they know the evidence that supports that fact.

Good for you.

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post #355 of 450
9/6/10 at 9:28am
It looks like MJ1970 has me on 'ignore'.

Could someone do me the immense favour of copy and pasting my last post? Just stick it out there under your own name.
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post #356 of 450
9/6/10 at 9:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

It looks like MJ1970 has me on 'ignore'.

Could someone do me the immense favour of copy and pasting my last post? Just stick it out there under your own name.

Maybe he's just ignoring you. That's what I usually do.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #357 of 450
9/6/10 at 9:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Maybe he's just ignoring you. That's what I usually do.

I force you to actually consider your positions. This makes you grumpy. I understand.
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post #358 of 450
9/6/10 at 10:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I'm asking you to tell me what "evolution" means to you, not to a bunch of other people and not even whether "evolution is science." In your more educated, more informed, more knowledgable position what does evolution encompass? When that word is used, what comes to your mind?

The most simple definition would be the changing of species and speciation over time.
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post #359 of 450
9/6/10 at 10:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

I force you to actually consider your positions. This makes you grumpy. I understand.

You are amusing sometimes.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #360 of 450
9/6/10 at 10:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

The most simple definition would be the changing of species and speciation over time.

OK. Thanks.

I assume that you subscribe to the theory that random mutations are the trigger for these changes and that these changes/mutations accumulate over time to create completely new species. Is that basically it?

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