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Darwin's idea of "Survival of the fittest" debunked... - Page 12

post #441 of 450
Mormonism and science/Evolution

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #442 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Mormonism and science/Evolution

I'll read yours, if you'll watch mine--above.

thank you
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #443 of 450
For those who have a very hard time understanding how science works...

And for those who do understand science and will like how concisely and eloquently this flowchart describes things...

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #444 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

For those who have a very hard time understanding how science works...

And for those who do understand science and will like how concisely and eloquently this flowchart describes things...


source?

found it

http://imgur.com/j9mwi
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #445 of 450
Instead of corrupting science with religion, we should have another subject to learn at school. You can call it what you want, but it should offer insight into the fundamentals of different religions out there. It wouldn't be any different than learning history, but it would sure help to eliminate some prejudice.
Most of us employ the Internet not to seek the best information, but rather to select information that confirms our prejudices. - Nicholas D. Kristof
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Most of us employ the Internet not to seek the best information, but rather to select information that confirms our prejudices. - Nicholas D. Kristof
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post #446 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by talksense101 View Post

Instead of corrupting science with religion, we should have another subject to learn at school. You can call it what you want, but it should offer insight into the fundamentals of different religions out there. It wouldn't be any different than learning history, but it would sure help to eliminate some prejudice.

Religion is usually something taught in the home and in church, temple, synagogue or other places of worship. In the alternative religious schools are an option. However I did come across this:

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=...YQlBXr8xS9P_uw

However I found that is was somewhat misleading by their insinuation that the Court might favor the teaching or religion in certain cases:

Quote:
Is it constitutional to teach about religion in public schools?
Yes. In the 1960s school-prayer cases (that prompted rulings against state-sponsored school
prayer and Bible reading), the U.S. Supreme Court indicated that public school education
may include teaching about religion
. In Abington v. Schempp, Associate Justice Tom Clark
wrote for the Court:

Quote:
[I]t might well be said that ones education is not complete without a study of
comparative religion or the history of religion and its relationship to the
advancement of civilization. It certainly may be said that the Bible is worthy of study
for its literary and historic qualities. Nothing we have said here indicates that such
study of the Bible or of religion, when presented objectively as part of a secular
program of education, may not be effected consistently with the First Amendment.

This is what is called dicta.
Quote:
The part of a judicial opinion which is merely a judge's editorializing and does not directly address the specifics of the case at bar; extraneous material which is merely informative or explanatory.

http://www.lectlaw.com/def/d047.htm It is not the ruling of the Court.

The Court's ruling in Abington v. Schempp:

Quote:
First, this Court has decisively settled that the First Amendment's mandate that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" has been made wholly applicable to the States by the Fourteenth Amendment. Twenty-three years ago in Cantwell v. Connecticut, 310 U. S. 296, 303 (1940), this Court, through Mr. Justice Roberts, said:

Quote:
"The fundamental concept of liberty embodied in that [Fourteenth] Amendment embraces the liberties guaranteed by the First Amendment. The First Amendment declares that Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. The Fourteenth Amendment 216*216 has rendered the legislatures of the states as incompetent as Congress to enact such laws. . . ."[8]

In a series of cases since Cantwell the Court has repeatedly reaffirmed that doctrine, and we do so now. Murdock v. Pennsylvania, 319 U. S. 105, 108 (1943); Everson v. Board of Education, supra; Illinois ex rel. McCollum v. Board of Education, 333 U. S. 203, 210-211 (1948); Zorach v. Clauson, supra; McGowan v. Maryland, 366 U. S. 420 (1961); Torcaso v. Watkins, 367 U. S. 488 (1961); and Engel v. Vitale, supra.

Second, this Court has rejected unequivocally the contention that the Establishment Clause forbids only governmental preference of one religion over another. Almost 20 years ago in Everson, supra, at 15, the Court said that "[n]either a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion over another." And Mr. Justice Jackson, dissenting, agreed:

Quote:
"There is no answer to the proposition . . . that the effect of the religious freedom Amendment to our Constitution was to take every form of propagation of religion out of the realm of things which could directly or indirectly be made public business and thereby be supported in whole or in part at taxpayers' expense. . . . This freedom was first in the Bill of Rights because it was first in the forefathers' minds; it was set forth in absolute terms, and its strength is its rigidity."

Id., at 26.
217*217 Further, Mr. Justice Rutledge, joined by Justices Frankfurter, Jackson and Burton, declared:

Quote:
"The [First] Amendment's purpose was not to strike merely at the official establishment of a single sect, creed or religion, outlawing only a formal relation such as had prevailed in England and some of the colonies. Necessarily it was to uproot all such relationships. But the object was broader than separating church and state in this narrow sense. It was to create a complete and permanent separation of the spheres of religious activity and civil authority by comprehensively forbidding every form of public aid or support for religion."

Id., at 31-32.
The same conclusion has been firmly maintained ever since that time, see Illinois ex rel. McCollum, supra, at pp. 210-211; McGowan v. Maryland, supra, at 442-443; Torcaso v. Watkins, supra, at 492-493, 495, and we reaffirm it now.

http://scholar.google.com/scholar_ca...=1&oi=scholarr

My guess is that you will not find any teaching of religion in public schools anytime soon.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #447 of 450
A wee bit abut religion and science:

When Baghdad was centre of the scientific world

On the Caliph Ma'mun - head of Islamic empire:

Quote:
Every week, guests would be invited to the palace, wined and dined, and then begin to discuss with the Caliph all manner of scholarly subjects, from theology to mathematics. He would send emissaries great distances to get hold of ancient scientific texts: one, Salman, visited Constantinople to obtain Greek texts from the Emperor Leo V (Leo the Armenian). Often, defeated foreign rulers would be required to settle the terms of surrender to him with books from their libraries rather than in gold.

Ma'mūn was almost fanatical in his desire to collect all the world's books under one roof, translate them into Arabic and have his scholars study them. The institution he created to realise his dream epitomises more than anything else the blossoming of the scientific golden age. It became known throughout the world as the House of Wisdom (Bayt al-Hikma).

This universalism enabled great discoveries - all within a framework of what today would be called a theocracy and labelled 'bad' - such as algebra:

Quote:
Khwārizmi was born around 780 and died around 850. His name suggests that he was originally from Khorezm, a province of Uzbekistan. He worked in the House of Wisdom as a mathematician, geographer and astronomer. Together with Kindi, he was instrumental in introducing the Arabs to the Hindu decimal numerals that we use today. But his greatest legacy is his extraordinary book on algebra. Indeed, the word "algebra" is derived from the title of this book: Kitab al-Jebr (The Book of Completion) in which he lays out for the first time the rules and steps of solving algebraic equations.

And the first astronomical observatory:

Quote:
Ma'mūn ordered the building of the first astronomical observatory in Baghdad around the second decade of the ninth century. This was the only way his astronomers could check the accuracy of the various, often conflicting, Greek, Persian and Indian astronomical texts at their disposal, most notably Ptolemy's Almagest.

The observatory was probably the world's first state-funded large-scale science project. We have only to look at current multinational, multibillion-dollar projects such as the Large Hadron Collider at Cern in Geneva to get a sense of what Ma'mūn managed to achieve on a much more modest scale, but with such spectacular results. He also put together an impressive team of mathematicians, astronomers and geographers to collaborate on the drawing of a new map of the world, and then charged them with devising a new way of measuring the circumference of the Earth. In this sense, Ma'mūn's true legacy is that he was the first to fund "big science".
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #448 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

A wee bit abut religion and science:

When Baghdad was centre of the scientific world

On the Caliph Ma'mun - head of Islamic empire:



This universalism enabled great discoveries - all within a framework of what today would be called a theocracy and labelled 'bad' - such as algebra:



And the first astronomical observatory:

In the neighboring christian world the guy would have been burned alive for witchcraft.
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #449 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

In the neighboring christian world the guy would have been burned alive for witchcraft.

Yes, but to be fair, that is a large part of why Islam made strides in Science and other areas at that time: the Jews and free-thinkers in Christian areas (as well as non-approved Christians) were being persecuted and fled to places like Islamic Spain where they were given sanctuary.

So a lot of the Islamic achievements of that time were made by Christians and Jews as well as Muslims. The fascism of the Church at that time made a kind of free-thinking alternative in Spain and the Near East during the dark ages.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #450 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

How Americans were first to the moon and first to split the atom is an absolute mystery to me.

I realise this is an old thread... but for the record... I was under the impression Sir Rutherford (a New Zealander) was the first to split the atom (in 1917).

http://www.rutherford.org.nz/milestones.htm

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