Corporate IT departments relax rules to allow Apple's iPad - Page 2

People are so cocksure of the iPad and its future. It will be a sucsess however the iPad will have less time before its "Android" starts out selling it.

One of the biggest reasons (not the only) the iPad is successful is that we are finally at a point where you can have a powerful enough device, that can be the size of the iPad, and last for 10 hours because technology is finally able to support it. Using Star Trek as a perfect example, these type of devices were invisioned log ago by many, not just Apple. Microsoft tried to push the technology for years, but every piece of their technology then was not ready.....battery life, small powerful cpu's that used very little power, wifi and wireless were either very slow or not around...all the early Microsoft tablets were hampered by technology.

The point is if Apple can make these devices now because the technology is finally ready, so can many others. Sure others will fail, but the Droid X or EVO are very good examples of how these others will make the iPad, just one of many, many capable tablet devices in the near future. Once a technology is mature, the price point begins to dominate the marketshare and success. Think DVD players. I remember when Sony was the player to get, at some point you did not care what label was on the DVD player and the lowest priced player that met your needs got your money.

Having a little background on this topic.... pssst... don't look at the desk of the LAWYER but take a gander at the work being done by the paralegals and administrative assistants. A lawyer that needed a computer? Yea not impossible but chances are they go very much underutilized.

Android?!?! What are you talking about... last I heard Google was backing CHROME for tablet devices... Then again the way some companies change lanes at the drop of a dime its really anyones guess what Google has planned for tablet devices it could very well be back on the Android track... or Chrome or heck maybe something entirely new!. Wouldn't THAT be exciting.

It must be extremely exhilarating trying to support all those Google subsidized devices with WHO knows WHAT hardware... The fact is, you're never really sure WHAT they'll be doing next!

Nothing like a big ole heap of never ending uncertainty to keep those neurons firing. iOS developers aren't having nearly as much fun... Even with the sometimes random behavior the App Store operates by it pales when you compare it to having the entire OS pulled out from under you or 30 some-odd devices made by 15 or so companies all with completely different and sometimes random hardware.

Oh and I hear you guys got FLASH!!! Congratz are certainly in order! I'm certain Android bloggers will start writing favorable things about it... Eventually...

iOS has much better security, better compatibility with Active Sync and better corporate management capabilities. Droids are nice phones but if you have a medium to high security environment don't expect to use it in your organization

Several developers are converting Ohio case law onto iPads and the Ohio Judiciary is looking at deploying iPads across the courts for judges to use. Combined with eBook features like bookmarking, highlighting, word search and fast access to docs, the judges I've talked to in the pilot are beside themselves - this is going to aid them significantly. Several have already been testing the WritePad app for their note-taking as well. Most of the judiciary do not have laptops at the bench becasue it takes too long to access data on them, according to my sources. The speed of access on the iPad makes it practical and a much better solution than a laptop ever was.

So just because they don't tote a laptop doesn't mean they don't need a device or platform - it just means that the extant ones weren't practical or simply didn't work well enough to justify having them.

There are far more than 11,000 apps available for the iPad.

The report noted that "More than 500 of the 11,000-plus applications built specifically for the iPad ".

bettieblue, you are missing the critical lesson learned by Microsoft - if you provide the infrastructure necessary you can drive a large amount of uptake and market dominance - look at Redmond's use in enterprise computing - it's all about the infrastructure they provide. And Apple has learned that lesson as well - see the iPod. It's a necessary combination of device and supporting infrastructure - this is what is driving Apple's success and while other devices will come out, you are looking at the same race to the bottom pricing-wise that Apple has ignored successfully in the desktop/laptop markets.

Unless HP can be successful leveraging WebOS as a tablet driver AND provide the rest of the supporting infrastructure to compete with iOS, it will gain a bit of market and then flatten out. Same thing with Win7. Google is already going schizophrenic between Android and ChromeOS, because they don't care which is used so long as they own the delivery system for ad/search revenue. Google is only going to drive this as long as nothing better comes along to drive their business model. Once that happens both Android and ChromeOS will be either retired from active support, or spun off. So just having a device in the market segment isn't going to address the immediate expectation created for consumers that "everything just works" and the company is pro-actively supporting the platform. Apple is a "platform" company, not just a device company. I'm surprised that you don't get that.

Last count I read several weeks ago was there are over 20,000 iPad Specific Apps In The App Store. Plus there are a ton of Universal Apps up there too now that have iPad specific layouts and features.

Add one more Fortune 500 company that just jumped on board with iPad, and Macs at the same time.

Just this morning we received formal approval for Macs to begin building a standard. We also got formally requested to buy iPads to build standards and work to see how they will be used, especially because over half our ~30,000 employees are out in the field.

Until now we've been typical where Macs have been spotted only in areas like graphics or communications. Now we are going to formalize it, especially with things like flex work and possibly bring your own computer programs around the corner.

Still standardization of software and security issues to work through but they are not road blocks at this point.

Yup, iPads are a huge fad. I may have jumped on board like a fanboy but I knew those that spoke out so negatively were the ones that looked stupid.

Granted there is more work to do - these products may not be for everyone. I'm sure we'll give Microsoft and (gulp) Android a shot but they are now very late to the mobility game. Too late if I have my way

First off the Newton was a bit of a succcess! It was killed in part to save the company!

Second just because some of us really want an SD slot in the device and more RAM does not mean we think Apple or the iPad is doomed. On the contrary it means we see a lot of potential in the device and see these additions as magnifying the utility of the device.

IPad is like being a bass boat owner and seeing the perfect car with zero towing capability. You might even buy that car but you end up forced to find other ways to get your boat to water.


Dave

QFT!

Little story... A friend who was an adamant Apple hater (mocked me whenever he could)... Anyway, this was in the Palm golden years (iirc) and yet he was not impressed with the Palm devices so he totally floored me when he called to let me know he was sporting a ... not sure what model (emate maybe?) anyway, he LOVED it and this was just after Steve took the axe to the whole project.. I told him he might wanna return it since it was a dead end product but he wouldn't think of it and used it for many years until he couldn't get certain apps that we found himself wanting... To this day he sings that devices praises... Which I find most humorous given all the crap he gave me over the years.

So yea, the Newton got saddled with a really bad rap (tho initially deserved) due to the handwriting recognition not being fully baked when it was first released... Over time the HW was fixed but Apple couldn't live down the initial bad press. and it remained a running joke for quite some time.

Just goes to show you only have one chance to make a good 1st impression.

Thanks, that is exactly what I needed. Especially since it's from WSJ, I can send this to our project leader as ammunition why we need to move in this direction with our own software.

Seriously it drives me nuts as one is often better off with a clean install. At least as a user involved in automation engineering i often find "corporate builds" to be very broken.


Nice to hear.

That is even better to hear. I do hope the iPad is a success. However are we fooling ourselves with this standard build business. In other words are all your employees cut with the same cookie cutter?

This idea of standardized software drives me nuts because i end up with a computer filled with software i never use. Worst yet is when an IT guy comes around wondering about all the software I do use and have installed. Often a piece of software is needed for a single controller in the plant which might be used only every other year. Of course i need it installed is the usual response.

Or simply haven't spent five minutes with the iPad. That is all it took for me to have my imagination run wild.

However you have to be pretty closed minded not to realize that the device has some significant short comings. RAM is a big issue that i expect to be resolved real soon now. Like it or not when iOS 4 comes to iPad the current machine is going to be a little tight on memory. The engineer in me would really love an iPad with a built in USB port too.

Why USB? Well pretty simple really, if supplied with the right drivers to support USB to RS232 it would open up the device to a whole world of uses for people involved in plant engineering. Given of course that the right siftware is written. So why iPad here, well for the same reason everybody else wants it those fast startup times and extreme portability. The long battery life is important too.

This would contrast nicely with the fat corpirate laptop of today which takes forever to boot up, can't be hand held well and is loaded with a bunch of corporate crapware.

Corporate crapware = virus checkers, malware blockers, remote management software and other crap making for a slow and unstable platform. It is unfortunate but even with its puny 32 bit processor iPad is a quick way to get work done compared to a corporate laptop.
[quote]
Granted there is more work to do - these products may not be for everyone.
[/qoute]
Exactly! But the could be far more appealing to a wider audience with a few tweaks. By the way folks that is not to say the audience isn't pretty wide now, it is just that not everybody is satisfied with iPads current capability.

From what i can see niether of these are or will be players. Windows isn't ment to run on touch screens fir one. Android seems to be Googles own personal advertising platform and has a long way to go to properly support a tablet. I'm still thinking WebOS has a bigger chance than Android. It is highly likely though that another Linux platform will emerge to compete with iPad and maybe be successful.


Dave

If it's not Windows it can't be on the network. Period.

Then why would you get a mini laptop that is not compact, not quick to type on and is overpriced?

Exactly. Many IT Dept's are loath to admit Apple has anything to offer... and in most companies, you need an Executive to spearhead innovation (not IT).

Android 2.2 has the same exact feature set as iPhone 4.0 when it comes to ActiveSync (policies, remote wipe etc).

For the best ActiveSync support, Windows Phone 7 will be the best choice.

The same gadget-happy execs who carry MBPs, have iMacs at home, and carry iPhones as well as their Blackberrys, no doubt. I know a few of them. Do YOU?

You quote the iPod, sure there is nothing that competes with that infrastructure when it comes to MP3 players but that is yesterday.

Android is getting there fast and in some areas faster. Google is going to release their music/app store in October? From the video I saw you will manage your account, its content and your devices from the cloud or web browser, no iTune required. Also Windows Phone 7, October?, will use have a new app store, basically Zune store with apps. The Zune also does not need a USB to computer connection today. From what I have read Windows Phone 7 will only sync with cloud data and not to a computer, ActiveSync style. Both are examples of how the other guys have woken up and now are closing in on Apple. As Andy said on Macbreak Weekly, "the iPhone enjoyed 3 years of lead time, the iPad has maybe 10 months".

"I'm sure we'll give Microsoft and (gulp) Android a shot but they are now very late to the mobility game. Too late if I have my way "

Are you serious? iPad has been out 6 months and you have written off anything else? I dont buy the fortune 500 stuff. Any IT staff that moves on iPad's now, as in for production use is not doing their corporation a service at all. Why move so fast? The product has not been out even a year. There is only one player with many to come.

A serious IT staff would flush out the real use cases for a tablet, and not some group wanting the latest toys. The IT staff would work through compatibility issues, and security issues of all choices. The would do a cost analsys and determine the real cost of the total solution, devices, support, software that maybe needed on existing solutions to support the new devices etc was justified.

Tablets are probably really good for some groups at any company. However a Windows tablet that can be locked down, or joined to a AD domain, wiped if lost, forced to have a password policy etc, might be a better choice for a dominant Windows company. At a small media company was very lax IT, the iPad is probably better.

So, a bunch of lawyers can use iPads to do the job they used to do on laptops, how?

Is their job surfing the NYT and watching Netflix and perusing personal photos? If so then being a lawyer sounds all right.

Except that windows tablets have been epic failures for the last decade or so. I own a few and there's no comparison to the ipad in terms of usefulness.

In terms of useful security none of those appear to matter in terms of stopping real attacks. In terms of theft, FDE is more useful than remote wipe since if you're stealing for data you can block the reception of the wipe command.

In any case iPad has password policies, remote wipe, etc. You don't need to join it to AD since it's a slave rather than primary device. Access to your enterprise will be via IPSec VPN gateway and ActiveSync. You don't have FDE but you can have secure enterprise apps developed that provide encrypted havens for data.

A Win7 tablet will be far more vulnerable to exploitation than the iPad IMHO.

The iOS is a proven OS... as Apple said in their initial presentation... 75 million people know how to use it. Makes a big difference.

I wasn't certain that iOS was the way to go with the iPad... until a few moments later.

Military Defense contractor can have a extremely risk-adverse mindset... normally scientist-types do experiments with a hypothesis and then testing the hypothesis. Well, it's turned into a "can't fail or we lose" mindset.

So, it's an unfortunate combo of Govt/Contractor Dino Thinking.

Thanks for all of the details on how you (and others) are using the iPad. It's giving me some interesting ideas...

Good point... even BlueRay has come down to the $100 for a cheap one. I was excited by the prospect of buying one for $299 (when the person in line in front of me got the last of the "cheap" ones). I waited and the prices continue to go down.

So far though, the 7" (sold in Japan something or other) tablet that read about recently was still $550 to $625 range. Price is one measurement, as we all know, features and usability are key as well... At first I was disappointed by the iPad using iOS -- until I used it and realized the ease of use factor. But, I'm still having to work around how to get files on to it since iPad doesn't have a traditional file system.

Windows tablets of yesterday are not what will be coming out. HP slate like devices, and for corporate use, whole device encryption. Someone steals it they cant read it. Turn it on and it will get the remote wipe command.

Or go Android...

http://www.neowin.net/news/samsung-g...l-video-teaser

http://www.neowin.net/news/samsung-g...l-video-teaser

It's clear you are talking out your arse. I'm in the bidness. While I don't work for one of those contractors, I work with several of them in R&D and worked with a couple even more closely while I was on Acitve Duty.

It's not the government rules that are their problem. It's the IT High Priests working two or three levels below the CIO.

Leaders almost always have risen above their early career biases and want to do what's best, but they rely on the staff to generate the Business Cases and Courses of Action. A staff member with a bias or an axe to grind has an incredible amount of leverage in a conservative organization when they control what makes it to he CIO's primary deputy. And defense contractors are about as conservative a set of organizations as exist on this planet, with lots of folks willing to blindly follow the corporate chain of command.


Too bad his reply was trite and uninformed. I'd be careful signing up to what someone else says when they are dragging you out on thin ice with them.


Nothing of the sort. Uncle Sam doesn't care how they handle internal business administration as long as the process is legal. All the real cool stuff is really being generated by small companies. Then when an idea starts to catch a General's or Admiral's eye and the small company needs to do the next phase demo on a shoestring budget, the big boys buy them out and make a great high budget smoke and mirrors demo chasing after major contract returns. Not much work done which isn't very derivative happening in Boeing or Lockheed anymore. Sure Skunk Works and Phantom Works are still around playing with relatively cool presentation fodder, but they really aren't stretching the art of the possible anymore.


This last part is totally really minor if you are talking about IT infrastructure. The rest was solved handily by XML dialects a half decade ago, but the solution is resisted because it is too powerful and allows a dangerous reduction in long term technology lock-in.

Given Ballmer's recent statement about tablets, Win7 isn't going to provide the ease of use that the iPad does for touch computing. Translation? The same mish mash of decent products (One Note) and unaltered applications on Win7 tablets that will make them the same epic failure that XP tablets were.

Unless the Office team is fully engaged into making Office touch optimized (and not just touch enabled) windows has no real competitive advantage as a corporate tablet.


Remote wipe and device encryption are two different things. Given that the HP slate is vapourware it doesn't have whole device anything and win7 doesn't have full disk encryption natively.


Right...you DO realize that the iPad has a functioning cisco IPSEC client and Android...well not so much without rooting and jumping through hoops given the current built in functionality is borked. See the related open issues with Cisco IPSEC and Android

http://code.google.com/p/android/iss...rs&cells=tiles

If enterprise was high priority for Google, stuff like this that was broken in 1.6 would be fixed by now.

So essentially, you're comparing capability that does exist with stuff that doesn't exist or is broken and saying it's not a viable for a "serious IT" staff to consider. You also seem completely unaware of the features that iOS does have or you wouldn't highlight them as must have features because it's already in there.

Heh...I'm guessing you weren't navy or marines because NMCI users probably think somewhat differently. And DIACAP is not much fun either.

But defense contractor IT shops are dinosaurs hiding behind security as a scapegoat from doing anything outside their comfort zone (read Microsoft enterprise solutions).

The fact that Lockheed Martin has a tactical app store and their MONAX product for secure 3G comms means zero to someone who doesn't want to believe that iOS devices can be made secure.

Image Link:

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/products/monax/index.html

Yes Android is doing some interesting innovation which it should - as a formerly open source platform it was well-positioned to do this. However, the only thing that is driving Android right now is the fact that Google offers it for free to the handset makers and allows the carriers to do what they please with it. Perhaps you are too young to remember - but the halcyon days of carrier dominance and the stingily metered out features they offered previously on phones is a good indication of where this is going.

Google is not changing carrier culture - Apple is. Which means that Android is slaved to whatever the handset makers do and what the carriers allow. And like it or not, Google, the carriers and handset makers keep a weather eye on Apple to see what the next innovation will be, and then just build out a little bit better. DId you notice that only LG initially embraced the same style of touchscreen technology that Apple announced? It wasn't until Apple began making serious inroads into the smartphone handset segment that everyone else (including Google/Android) jumped into the touchscreen interface. So the carriers are not interested in going head-to-head with Apple with the Android OS- they only want to drive contracts and phone sales and if they can do that using a "free" OS, then so much the better. Have you seen the uptake in marketshare of Froyo? Nothing near STILL to 1.5 and 1.6 - which comprise the majority of the installed Android base. And lets think about the handset makers - they have R&D departments as well, and can build fine devices with "free" Android - oops, wait - not entirely free now is it? HTC has to pay license fees to Microsoft now don't they? How many more handset makers will have to pay out licensing fees?

Will WinPhone 7 have the moxy to regain their marketshare from Android, RIM and Apple? If the Zune effort is any indication, not likely. Worse Microsoft's culture is broken, according to my friends inside, and not getting much better even after the several shake-ups that they have attempted. The only piece of Microsoft kit (outside of the branded keyboards and mice) that has been demonstrated recently successful (at last) in the consumer marketplace is the XBox platform. I see no signs that Microsoft actually "gets" the consumer smartphone market segment. I really want to be pleasantly surprised, but have serious doubts. Especially after the Danger cloud failure. With RIM having its yearly network failures for the benefit of Blackberry users, there isn't a whole lot of consumer interest in being cloud reliant. I have vested interests in the success of both Microsoft and Google, but I see very serious flaws that are potentially crippling to their platforms.

I have stated previously and do so again now: Android is a means to an end for Google. Once they achieve that end Eric Schmidt will have no qualms about retiring Android or spinning it off to back the next venture - likely to be ChromeOS. Android was a stop-gap measure because Chrome wasn't ready for handheld primetime yet. Google needed a foot in the door for mobile marketing and Android was that foot. ChromeOS will be easier to manage, less hardware dependent (and thus able to ride the best horses in the race to the bottom and still win), and allow deeper integration of Google services and access to you.

We build on what we learned yesterday bettieblue in order to build bigger and better. You need to step back from your platform preferences and look at the situation with a less jaundiced eye - and look at the whole picture not just the bits that interest you or support your opinions.

You guessed wrong. And almost all those nasty NMCI NIPRNET rules are driven by what a bunch of EDS sysadmins and VP bean counters think makes their job easier and more profitable. Then those get pitched as enterprise cost saving/security measures and eventually get codified in instructions after a Flag officer is convinced. But that last part only happens because the staff weenies either A) don't know what is really going on; or b) See the restrictions as useful ass covering and job simplification.

Been there. Watched that t-shirt get made. Know EXACTLY what happened in the 15 minutes before the original contract was signed. You would cry, and no I won't tell you because I don't know you face to face.

And please make sure you direct your second line of comments at the right poster. I never said anything about insecurity being a reason for not using modern equipment and software. But when you only quote me at the top, it looks like you are directing it at me. You appear to be responding with that second topic to techfan's posts.

ChromeOS won't use much from Android, it can't because of how ChromeOS is architected under the hood. And in reality it's missing a ton of important stuff if you give a whit about actually implementing security at the OS level. It's turning into Linux-lite with no Linux GUI, just a Chrome Gui that's really just the Chrome Browser.

SD Slot is already included in the iPad ecosystem as part of the Camera Connection Kit so I don't understand why you are complaining about iPad not having it when it already does as well as a USB slot. Please don't say that because you have to plug in the adaptor for it that doesn't count because it does. It's NEVER going to be built in because not everyone needs it.

Sure, and while I wasn't there for the sausage making it still is a gov't policy that impacts what can get deployed on a NMCI platform and the costs associated that got pushed to the program offices/app developers to get certified and the installations for seat support. Don't expect NMCI approved iPads any decade soon. On the tactical side we have a lot more latitude.

Been around the block also and have some have-to-laugh-or-I-would-cry stories to trade too but that's not here or there.


My point was that the folks you deal with and the corporate IT folks ARE two different beasts. The latter being more like EDS folks and option B above. The folks you deal with give you stuff like MONAX. The corporate IT folks will tell you that you can't do secure wireless despite the fact that its already been done.

Never disputed your overall flavor of organizations. techfan on the other hand thinks it's all the fault of government rules, without understanding anything about how those rules were made in the first place. When you want to change some part of an organization, it helps to understand who the enemy actually is and how to neutralize them. It can be done.

On to MONAX I'll dispute that theres anything substantial innovative in that from Lockheed. A) All the hardware innovation in it was done by a couple small conrtractors and some academic research labs on SBA contracts and demonstrated over several field experiments before Lockheed ever had/(bought) the program/(small contractors). [Well, either that or Lockheed just copied the program after seeing the field experiments, but I know of at least three field experiments that scaffolded comms tech almost exactly like that. Then the money turned 6.4 and the researchers moved on.] Only then it was done with older cellular technology, Lockheed ported it to 3G and claimed the product as their own. B) Then Lockheed, to their credit, smartly added a App store clone which itself isn't even innovative, Apple was just the first to get the consumer interface software somewhere north of sucky.

Oh, and I'm not complaining that Lockheed bought the stuff/companies. That's just how it works. But I can't see giving them innovation credit when they sit back and watch other companies in the crucible, then only cherry pick and buy the ones that have an established road to a vertical market. If you don't have enough of your own corporate skin in the game to be a little scared of not having enough successes, you don't have a sustainable innovation culture.

When you're wearing a green badge and they're wearing a white badge its harder. Like you said, we don't know each other or I could tell you some t-shirt stories.

I think the fairest thing to say that every organization; government, commercial, academic, etc; has elements of tech folks that obstruct progress for various reasons not always supported by the facts. It sometimes makes it exceedingly frustrating to deliver useful advances for the guys and gals at the pointy end. Fortunately, they are a small minority...although they do seem to cluster together at times.