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You knew it was coming..."Star Wars is racist!"

post #1 of 35
Thread Starter 


I was actually waiting on this, figuring that in this day and age, some hypersensitive individual or group would eventually pipe up and spout off.

Jeez...

<a href="http://www.detnews.com/2002/entertainment/0205/18/d01-492788.htm" target="_blank">http://www.detnews.com/2002/entertainment/0205/18/d01-492788.htm</a>

This never used to happen, did it? I mean...not to this degree, right?

I just think there is a segment of the population that is never pleased about anything and is perpetually offended by everything.
post #2 of 35
Thread Starter 
My favorite quote from the article (for those of you who don't feel like reading the whole thing):

[quote]Temuera Morrison, the actor who plays Jango, is a New Zealander of Maori descent. But that didn't get in the way of some members of an eight-person Detroit News panel assembled to review the film.
Â*Â*Â*"He looked totally Latino," says Martina Guzman, a Detroiter who's managing a State House election campaign.
Â*Â*Â*"And his kid," says Wayne State history professor Jose Cuello, referring to the young Boba Fett, "looked even more Latino." <hr></blockquote>

LOOKED? Isn't it weird that a group concerned with racism and stereotypes are, themselves, going solely by looks/appearances?

Amazing.

Here's what's REALLY funny: Jimmy Smits, an ACTUAL Latino (and obviously a "sellout to his people", right?), doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere, good or bad.



Instead, let's bitch about a character who LOOKS Hispanic. Makes sense...

Holy hell.

You're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

If Lucas made a movie with all mainstream caucasion actors (with EVERYONE looking like Harrison Ford, Ewan McGregor, Jake Lloyd, etc.), people would bitch about the "lack of diversity in Lucas's universe...".

THEN, you cast people in MAJOR, pivotal (and coveted) roles who aren't white, and the very same people bitch even more!

:confused:

What the hell do you want?!?! Again, I'm even further convinced that some people simply wake up every single morning of their lives, looking, and expecting, to be offended. That's their whole reason to exist, it seems. Then they can get on a soapbox or pulpit, grab a little media attention, feel aligned with something bigger than themselves, etc.

Sad.

[ 05-18-2002: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
post #3 of 35
[quote]Originally posted by pscates:
<strong>My favorite quote from the article (for those of you who don't feel like reading the whole thing):



LOOKED? Isn't it weird that a group concerned with racism and stereotypes are, themselves, going solely by looks/appearances?

Amazing.

Here's what's REALLY funny: Jimmy Smits, an ACTUAL Latino (and obviously a "sellout to his people", right?), doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere, good or bad.



Instead, let's bitch about a character who LOOKS Hispanic. Makes sense...

Holy hell.

You're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

If Lucas made a movie with all mainstream caucasion actors (with EVERYONE looking like Harrison Ford, Ewan McGregor, Jake Lloyd, etc.), people would bitch about the "lack of diversity in Lucas's universe...".

THEN, you cast people in MAJOR, pivotal (and coveted) roles who aren't white, and the very same people bitch even more!

:confused:

What the hell do you want?!?! Again, I'm even further convinced that some people simply wake up every single morning of their lives, looking, and expecting, to be offended. That's their whole reason to exist, it seems. Then they can get on a soapbox or pulpit, grab a little media attention, feel aligned with something bigger than themselves, etc.

Sad.

[ 05-18-2002: Message edited by: pscates ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Most religious nuts believe more in the act of believing than in the "substance" (believe me I use that term very loosely here) of their religion. The same is true with people who are always offended. They aren't really offended. They pretend to be offended to get attention.
post #4 of 35
dumbest...article...ever...

He's Latino! No, he's Arab!
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post #5 of 35
Agree. These critics just only to brung up conflicts, instead of truly addressing the problems.

It's strange though on how they didn't mentioned the idea of the supermen (the Jedis), and how the idea that the Jedis are genetically superior.

Jedi -&gt; Juda -&gt; Jews

Next, the extermination of the Jedis. With the support of one of them, then one of them will have a high ranking position.

You do know that the people that was behind the creation of the Nazis are actually the Jews?
post #6 of 35
[quote]Originally posted by pscates:
<strong>This never used to happen, did it? I mean...not to this degree, right?</strong><hr></blockquote>

We didn't use to have the internet. :/
post #7 of 35
Actually, it does mention Jimmy Smits to bemoan his having only 2 lines. Then it mentions Samuel "black and black can be" L. Jackson as "only having like five." I haven't seen the flick yet but for God's sake Mace Windu is just about King Shit Jedi, a step down from freakin' Yoda (why aren't short Chinese guys that speak constantly in passive voice protesting him?)

"Racism, this is."
He doesn't SOUND Mexican, he sounds more like a buck-toothed solicitor from Liverpool than he does a freakin' taco vendor in Guadalajara. Idiots.

One more thing about that aspect: James Earl Jones does NOT sound black, he sounds like God.

So do Mexicans have a ****ing trademark on things phonetic similarities to the Spanish language?

I am ashamed of this stupid chick's inability to avoid sounding like a valley girl when talking about this, it destroys the tiny bit of credibility she had after her idiotic assertion crossed her lips.

"Look, man, like it totally like is racist.. y'know? Majorly!"

And he doesn't look or sound Latino, she's a racist moron for thinking so.
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post #8 of 35
Thread Starter 
Thank you, all.

Glad to know you all see this the way I do.

Maybe Lucas can get Smits 4 lines in "Episode III". Because if he doesn't, the shit shall meet the fan.



Actually, Lucas might buckle under and replace Natalie Portman with Jennifer Lopez. And instead of casting nSync in walk-on cameos, he's tap Ricky Martin, Mark Anthony and Julio Inglesias, Jr.

And after Anakin's transformation to the Dark Side, Darth Vader will be voiced by Cheech Marin instead of James Earl Jones.

"Hey, man, this is a bad suit, man. Say, man, check out this lightsaber, man..."

I can't wait!
post #9 of 35
Didn't read the article and didn't see the film so I can't comment on that.

BUT
I'll take this perspective though I'm sure to be dismissed by the herd:
The Phantom Menace was definitely racist in its characatured portrayals: and if you can't see that and see that they are based on cliched images of the past, then its your lack of critical insight and powers of observation not the films lack of stereotyping... which basically is the films lack of imagination: ezamples: Jar jar as the minstrel comedian from jamaica, the jewish salesman that's trying everything for a buck, and looks like a cross between a jew from a Nazi propaganda films and a mosquitto--!!!! -- come on how obviouse!!!!
these are pernicious steretypes that are perpetuated in ways like this... just under the surface of consciouse acknowledgement yet reinforcing and perpetuating stale ideas about real people

And Digix: what the hell are you reading these days!!??!!: your head is obviously full of some serious anti-simitic crap . . . you should stop yourself from that line of thinking ...its wrong . .not that its wrong as in bad (though that too)... its just plain wrong.
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
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"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

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"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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post #10 of 35
Watto sounds like an alien. He does NOT sound like a stereotyped Jew, you want to hear a stereotyped Jew you listen to Mort Goldman on The Family Guy. He's a salesmen, whities, darkies, mid-rangies all have salesmen. You seeing him as a Jew colors your own viewpoint, I never thought that once.

--

The Trade Federation sounded Chinese to me when I watched Episode I for the first time. The only significance that came up in my mind was the vocal similarity. I've never known the Chinese to be capitalist emperialists. If we were working with stereotypes they SHOULD sound like some form of American. But it's not about stereotype, it's a goddam movie.

--

Who is ****ing Sidious? An albino midget African caricature? Will Native Americans be protesting him later on?

Star Wars racism assertions == total bullshit.

--

Re: Cheech as Vader

"Man, listen, I know, like, this death star things was built for shooting planets with the big laser, man, but listen, we could like, roll the BIGGEST JOINT in the universe, man! And like, use the big laser to light it, man!"
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post #11 of 35
Smits is going to have plenty of lines in Episode III. He becomes buddies with Obi-Wan and when Anakin finally goes berserk, Obi-Wan whisks Leia off to him.

I forgot to mention...Baba means father in just about every single Asian lanuage in existence...not to mention a bevy of other languages...jeez...some people are so stupid.
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post #12 of 35
I noticed in the trailers that Jango Fett had a sort of exotic look. I guessed Australian white/aborigine, but he's kiwi white/Maori. I think it adds to the film to have different looking characters: It's a freaking galaxy of humanoid derivatives, presumably from the same original planet. You'd expect there to be a lot of variation after years of travelling, etc.

I just wish the jedi's didn't speak like limp-wristed brits a la Russell Crowe in gladiator. Eh, I guess it's just Obiwan.

[ 05-19-2002: Message edited by: Splinemodel ]</p>
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post #13 of 35
Of COURSE it's racist! It's a fantasy!

The female roles in SW are all princesses! The good guys are knights, and their bumbling helpers are bad-gujys-turned-good! The bad guys are all good gyus turned bad!

UNfortunately, the main characters are all white.
The Jedi are diverse - a great diversity of humans and then a few s\\limy things.


So what race are they gonna choose for the Fett? It doesn't matter! If he';s white, they complain! If he's brown, they complain! If he's yellow, they complain! If he's red...

It's a no-win situation. Oh well, at least this newspaper HAS NOREADERS! STupid newspaper - hope they get smarter or go out of business.
post #14 of 35
This is so stupid!

First of all Latino is not a race! It is just a place of origin (Latin America).

Trust me I live in Latin America and although we are all Latinos we belong to different races (if we were all one same race there would be no racism in latin america, duh!). You have black latinos (like the people from many caribbean islands), white latinos (many people in chile, argentina and my country, etc), indian latinos (the descendants from the native latin americans, most of them in MEXICO) and of course you have mixtures of all those kinds of races.

So there is no such thing as a Hispanic race, just because most latin americans that migrate to the U.S. are the poor mexican, native latin american-like latinos (we refer to them here as "indios") and mestizos (indians with some white blood) who share similar physical features it does not mean they are all one race or that everyone originally from Latin America looks like that.

So, the statement Â*"He looked totally Latino" is NONSENSE.

I am tired of this stupid stereotyping.
post #15 of 35
[quote]Originally posted by soulcrusher:
<strong>This is so stupid!

First of all Latino is not a race! It is just a place of origin (Latin America).

Trust me I live in Latin America and although we are all Latinos we belong to different races (if we were all one same race there would be no racism in latin america, duh!). You have black latinos (like the people from many caribbean islands), white latinos (many people in chile, argentina and my country, etc), indian latinos (the descendants from the native latin americans, most of them in MEXICO) and of course you have mixtures of all those kinds of races.

So there is no such thing as a Hispanic race, just because most latin americans that migrate to the U.S. are the poor mexican, native latin american-like latinos (we refer to them here as "indios") and mestizos (indians with some white blood) who share similar physical features it does not mean they are all one race or that everyone originally from Latin America looks like that.

So, the statement Â*"He looked totally Latino" is NONSENSE.

I am tired of this stupid stereotyping.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You can thank the politically correct Americans for the latino thing. It's so ****ed up over here, you have to call a Mexican a Latino and all that weird shit. When we were first starting to call people latinos that's the first thing I said to myself. I said, "hey, latino isn't a race!" But supposedly it's "politically correct" so whatever.
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post #16 of 35
When I was in high school back in the early 80s I used to get harassed when I walked by the area known as the place for "La Raza Unidas"

which, I may be wrong about, sounds like a form of racism: "the Race united"?!?!??

could you imagine a white group with that name getting year book pictures?
NO, I couldn't.... and I don't think that I should, rathe,r I think that the racism of "La Raza" should be seen for what it is....

[ 05-19-2002: Message edited by: pfflam ]</p>
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #17 of 35
Sends comments into these guys, explaining how retarded they are.
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post #18 of 35
Comments sent would be a waste of time. Let those who believe this crap burn themselves out and waste their time.

Good thread.
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post #19 of 35
I agree, this sucks, IT is a MOVIE!

These people, they are just looking for things to disect.

They are like English teachers who look for things in book that were not originally intended by the author!
post #20 of 35
[quote]Originally posted by G4Dude:
<strong>
It's so ****ed up over here, you have to call a Mexican a Latino and all that weird shit. When we were first starting to call people latinos that's the first thing I said to myself. I said, "hey, latino isn't a race!" But supposedly it's "politically correct" so whatever.</strong><hr></blockquote>

"Mexican" isn't a race either. No more than "American", which includes me, Jimmy Smits, James Earl Jones, etc. But I agree with you that it's pretty stupidly PC to use the term "latino" as well.

When "Phantom Menace" came out there we cries over the depiction of Jar-Jar Binks as being both racist and homophobic. Some people saw him as a gay stereotype and some as a Steppin Fetchit sterotype. I just thought that he was an incredibly annoying character that sounded like cookie monster with a bad accent. I think some people just are so on the lookout for any hint of racism or homophobia or anti-Semitism or anti-Albanianism or anti-whateverism that they are going to find it wherever they can. I'm sure that for "Matrix: Reloaded" there will some group, somewhere, that will get really upset that the good guys in the movie wear black and drive a silver CTS, whle the bad guys wear silver and drive a black EXT. And someone, somewhere is going to give them press about it.
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[ 05-20-2002: Message edited by: tmp ]</p>
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post #21 of 35
I don't believe George Lucas intentially set out to do this. I just think either he didn't know any better or he did know based on past criticism but was too lazy to do anything about it. I'm with Pfflam on this one that it's really not a lack of stereotyping in the film but a lack of critical insight in pointing it out. I mean the symbolism is all there: a white actor playing a "good" Anakin Skyewalker and a black actor speaking the voice of an "evil" Darth Vader. The article DOES make a few good points and it IS legitimate. But even if the article is WRONG: what's so bad about sensitivity towards minorities after hundreds of years of insensitivity. Is enough, enough so to speak? I think the line does not lie here with Star Wars. There's a lot more work to be done.
post #22 of 35
You dug up a 7-month-old thread just to say that? Err... <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
post #23 of 35
Sure. Why not? I'm going through the archives right now. There's a ton of great threads out there. I almost died reading the great murbot data recovery thread.
post #24 of 35
Its only a movie guys ..... :confused: :confused: <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
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post #25 of 35
"The Birth of a Nation" was only a movie too. Many movies were and still can be racist- whether subltley or overtly. I think the issue here is the lack of sensitivity shown by George Lucas in creating this story. Whether or not the critics here are correct in identifying racism in Star Wars, I really think we as a formerly overtly racist society should take steps to go out of our way for minorities. We should be thinking about whether or not we're doing enough. I still think there is a lot of work to be done in that regard.
post #26 of 35
All-right.

In future, let's not drag up old topics.
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post #27 of 35
:confused:

That makes no sense, but okay. It's not like it was a "can't wait for LOTR TTT" thread where future comments no longer apply. There's a lot of threads with issues still relevant today. Like Jonathan's "Who Skis" thread, or the "History of AI Thread." Ah good stuff.
post #28 of 35
I always wondered about those "evil Asian" Trade Federation dudes. I didn't find it too flatterring. Why wouldn't a more "domestic" voice have sufficed? I guess you can't blame GL for finally putting that one broken-English speaking Asian guy in Hollywood to work.

...and what about those star destroyers from the original Star Wars? Looking like a giant Christian cross stuck on a triangle, carrying around those Nazi-esque Empire soldiers? Hey, that's what I saw when I stared at the "inkblots"!
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post #29 of 35
For the first time, Randycat, we are in agreement regarding your post. Keep them coming
post #30 of 35
[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>Re: Cheech as Vader

"Man, listen, I know, like, this death star things was built for shooting planets with the big laser, man, but listen, we could like, roll the BIGGEST JOINT in the universe, man! And like, use the big laser to light it, man!"</strong><hr></blockquote>

That sounds more like Tommy Chong to me (don't you guys love him in That 70's Show?).

Cheech would say: "Ehhhh, vato! Watch this! Remember that planet with all those furry little dudes, how it was all green and all? Check this out! It's all full of hash, man. And if we take our Death Star laser thing here and point it at the planet at like half-power or sometheeng, we can light it up like a huge joint!"

Chris Farley as Obi Wan picks up a light saber and flips open a side panel: "You put your weed in there".
post #31 of 35
Thread Starter 
Goodness, where does the time go...
post #32 of 35
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by ShawnPatrickJoyce:
<strong>For the first time, Randycat, we are in agreement regarding your post. Keep them coming </strong><hr></blockquote>

Look how incredibly nice you get when someone agrees with you and sees things your way.



Run, Randycat, run!

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
post #33 of 35
post #34 of 35
I was going to comment that you were probably looking through the pscates archives, looking for trouble.... but now I can't of course, after the compliment.



heh heh
post #35 of 35
[quote]Originally posted by ShawnPatrickJoyce:
<strong>Sure. Why not? I'm going through the archives right now. There's a ton of great threads out there. I almost died reading the great murbot data recovery thread.</strong><hr></blockquote>

There's something I'll do on a "rainy day"... hehehe!

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