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Microsoft to spend over $500m to catch up to iPhone, Android - Page 3

post #81 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

MS does understand this, which is why they are pushing the integration of the entire package. You may deride MS, and they may not pull it off, but, like Apple, they have an ecosystem that "works" together.

And very solid dev support. There's a ton of C# devs out there. Even more .NET devs when you lump in the VB and managed C/C++ coders.

http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/conte...pci/index.html
post #82 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post

It's interesting how pro-Apple mags like Engadget and Gizmodo are stoked about what M$ is bringing to the table.

Gizmodo? Pro-Apple? Have you even read Gizmodo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNSF View Post

The fact that MSFT needs to spend upwards of $500 million is a symptom of a big big problem, not an indicator of enthusiasm or lofty goals.

The important thing is the comparison. Apple spends $500 M in a year - on ALL marketing. And that budget probably includes promotional materials, as well as advertising. Microsoft is going to spend that on ONE product (that doesn't even exist yet). I wonder how much Apple spent on the iPhone marketing? As a rough guess, I'd say probably 1/10 of what Microsoft is spending on the WinMo launch - yet Apple got far, far more buzz from their $50 M than MS will ever get from $500 M.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel001 View Post

WTF are "non-recurring engineering" costs, someone?

Sounds like Microsoft might be subsidizing handset manufacturers to design their phones. They're also subsidizing software developers to write for WinMo. I guess if you're desperate, anything goes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppDev View Post

It wp7 doesn't flop early, it's going to be more of a threat to android than to iphone or rim. It's going to be interesting to see how this turns out.

Exactly.

I'm sure that Apple will lose SOME customers for the sake of better Office integration (which I'd expect from WinMo). But the biggest losers will be Android and RIM.
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post #83 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post

This is the cue for MSFT stockholders to dump their holdings and run for the hills. What Microsoft is telling you is that right next to the bottomless pits labeled "XBox" and "Longhorn/Vista", they have a dug a fresh new hole named "Windows Phone 7" and they will (again) be dumping billions upon billions of stockholders' money into it for the next few years.

Just to put the ballanced view, Xbox is now - and has been for a some time - profitable. yes it has taken lots of investment (that's what big compaines do by the way.. invest in new markets they see as strategically important) but it gives Microsoft a place in the living room that Apple TV has yet to emulate.

Vista was a disaster from a marketing persective for sure.. (though it still sold a lot of copies).. Windows 7 however is a sales and marketing sucess, and is VERY profitable.
I know this is the place to big up Apple, and 'down' MSFT, but I'll yet again, point out that they're both very strong and sucsessful companies, and the market benifits from the opportunity for lots of competition ahead.

Win Phone 7 is indeed a big bet for Microsoft, and the odd's are probably stacked against it (it's way later than it should have been, but it is at leaset an innovative take on mobile -it's not fair for some posters above to claim it is a copy of Apple - the UI is quite unique (which may actualy be a problem for it, now the Apple style 'apps' interface is widely used and familier).

So for the more open minded of us, lets sit back and watch an interesting battle that will hopefully drive innovation and better products from all three phone developers (4 or 5 inyou inc. RIM and possibly HP).
post #84 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNSF View Post

Depends on your definition of doing well. Sure the Xbox is a popular gaming system, but they've never made any money off it. Not a penny. If they could leverage the Xbox to make money in other ways that might okay, but they haven't done that yet either.

Maybe this will change with WM7 though since Xbox will have some integration with WM7. Maybe finally things will start to come together... maybe.

That isn't true. The entertainment and devices devision at MS (of which the Xbox is the main product) actually does turn a profit now. Probably not enough to wipe out the R&D costs yet, but it will get there.
post #85 of 188
Sad to see so many doubters here (as usual). If any of you had actually seen demos or read about Win Phone you'd realise what a great take on the mobile OS it appears to be. In several crucial ways it makes iOS seem very dated, particularly in how it aggregates content from all your friends, be it status updates, photos, or whatever, from all popular social media sites. It's very clever and very unique.

It also has Xbox Live which should be a real focus on gaming, and of course achievements too.

Plus with multiple OEMs come multiple form factors, so we can presumably look forward to some nice big screen devices from HTC.

There is also the issue of eco system, which Apple famously has and Google famously don't. (outside of GMail etc) Microsoft have the excellent Zune desktop client, and the Zune store with Zune pass subscription.

As a pretty happy iPhone 4 owner even I'm tempted, although only if I could get Dodonpachi on Win Phone, as it just came out on iPhone and is ridiculously good.
post #86 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Snitch View Post

Microsoft is a joke.



It's not 'wishing'. It's called reading the writing on the wall. In this case, the letters are neon and twelve feet tall.

For a joke they seem to do awfully well for themselves. What's Apple's desktop OS share again?

Or did MS just achieve such total dominance through blind luck?
post #87 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

That isn't true. The entertainment and devices devision at MS (of which the Xbox is the main product) actually does turn a profit now. Probably not enough to wipe out the R&D costs yet, but it will get there.

Well actually it is true. Last figure I remember was about $8 Billion, sunk into xBox. How long before Microsoft turns a REAL profit?
post #88 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I'm not sure why so many are wishing MS to fail. That wouldn't be good for the mobile phone business. Competition is needed.

they won't fail. they may not do great but they will be around.
there is competition, its just floundering around a bit right now. if Android 3 does come out then you will see it. the iphone 4 wasn't really ALL THAT. nice touches and pretty, interesting hardware design but nothing that just makes one running android 2.2 go.. 'gee i really need to ditch this and get iphone 4'.
post #89 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

Googling XBOX and Profit is pretty easy. The division was profitable in 2008 and 2009.

http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/20346/...Year-in-a-Row/

And gee...they seem to be making money off Live...

Try Googling the whole picture... Something along the lines of how much money they've spent on Xbox compared to how much revenue they've generated. The MSFT financial releases also have some good tidbits in them.

In some isolated quarters they've probably made some money, but in the long run they've not made any profit on Xbox. None. And that includes Xbox live.
post #90 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

Well actually it is true. Last figure I remember was about $8 Billion, sunk into xBox. How long before Microsoft turns a REAL profit?

As I said in a previous post, companies invest in business areas they see as important.. as long as they are profitable overall that is good business... you use your brand leaders to fund markets you know to be important in the long term.

Apple TV.. great case in point, not an Aple hit - yet, but they know they need to have more than just a Mac in the living room, if they are to leverage all the iTunes media, at a major point of consumption.

Microsoft sensibly do the same. Xbox may hove cost millions, but they now have a profitable division, but more importantly an ecosystem of developers, plus many loyal (young - consumer - non corporate) customers. That's good business, it build out your brand, and lets you leverage when entering (re entering) other markets - just as they are doing with Win Phone 7, and it's Xbox live integration.

So, think like a BIG buisness.. and recognise that investment is not the same as a loss. Microsoft are STILL more priofitable than Apple... so they can both afford to invest in new markets they feel important - and that's a good thing for us all.
post #91 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsftMacMan View Post

As I said in a previous post, companies invest in business areas they see as important.. as long as they are profitable overall that is good business... you use your brand leaders to fund markets you know to be important in the long term.

Apple TV.. great case in point, not an Aple hit - yet, but they know they need to have more than just a Mac in the living room, if they are to leverage all the iTunes media, at a major point of consumption.

Microsoft sensibly do the same. Xbox may hove cost millions, but they now have a profitable division, but more importantly an ecosystem of developers, plus many loyal (young - consumer - non corporate) customers. That's good business, it build out your brand, and lets you leverage when entering (re entering) other markets - just as they are doing with Win Phone 7, and it's Xbox live integration.

So, think like a BIG buisness.. and recognise that investment is not the same as a loss. Microsoft are STILL more priofitable than Apple... so they can both afford to invest in new markets they feel important - and that's a good thing for us all.

i think apple edged out ms in profits recently? but regardless of that they are both running close together i think (profit wise)
post #92 of 188
Microsoft is only accelerating their demise. The more Ballmer is given opportunities to screw up, the more he will do so. MS can only ever "catch up" nearly 5 years behind the puck. They currently have no mndshare in this space. Android and iOS will decimate all competitors. I predict Ballmer will finally be fired after this one.

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post #93 of 188
removed, mistake ...
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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post #94 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

Sad to see so many doubters here (as usual). If any of you had actually seen demos or read about Win Phone you'd realise what a great take on the mobile OS it appears to be. In several crucial ways it makes iOS seem very dated, particularly in how it aggregates content from all your friends, be it status updates, photos, or whatever, from all popular social media sitesod.

You have to admit that MSFT has brought a lot of this doubt on themselves with their kin phone debacle so at least some of the doubt is well justified. If the new os is similar to that on their kin phone, to me, it would seem somewhat clunky but that is just me.

Have you actually played around with the new os or is all your experience with it from what others have written or from demos? I have seen some demos from MSFT for a iPad like device which were total mockups and there are still plenty of writers out there that still feel that MSFT can do no wrong so I really don't have a clue what MSFT is going to release this fall.
post #95 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

For a joke they seem to do awfully well for themselves. What's Apple's desktop OS share again?

Or did MS just achieve such total dominance through blind luck?

Silly logic.

First, neither company only sells desktop operating systems.

Second, the value of a company is NOT rated by market share alone. For example, Apple has less than 10% of PC sales, but something like 40% of the entire industry's profits. NO PC vendor makes more money than Apple even though 4 or 5 of them have a higher market share.

In terms of market capitalization (which is the market's assessment of the value of a company, Apple is more valuable than Microsoft - for all of Microsoft's market share.

Finally, claiming that Microsoft achieved dominance by offering a superior product is simply inane. There has never been a time when Microsoft's products were technically superior to anything Apple or other competitors offered. Rather, Microsoft achieved dominance largely by being in the right place at the right time and having the foresight to take advantage of that. Network effects did the rest.
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post #96 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by LewysBlackmore View Post

but just because the going is tough, I wouldn't make the mistake of counting them out entirely. They have large cash reserves and the chutzpah to pull this off, if:

*******
They may even try to hedge Nokia out of the US market by offering a revamped feature phone that runs a small version of WinPhone7 just so they can count them as devices as well.

I agree. MS may be down right now but not out. They have the money to buy the market. It would not surprise me if MS offered users money to switch to WP7 - hey turn in your Google or Apple phone and we will replace it with a WP7 phone and give you a break on the monthly charges - and that could cost a lot of money but then MS has a lot of money.

MS will have a hard time convincing many handset manufacturers to use WP7 with offering them huge incentives. Many have already moved their development to Android and have no interest in paying royalties to MS.

Who knows MS may make WP7 "open" ? Does Balmer have the balls to do it?
post #97 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryanh View Post

How profoundly American to believe that excellence is a function of the aggressive application of enough money.

how profoundly pompous and naive to make blanket generalizations about an entire nation of people. apple is American, bitch.. gfy
post #98 of 188
Let's see. If R&D doesn't work, let's just throw money at it.

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post #99 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post

As an iPhone owner, I'm looking forward to WP7 because it's the first real competition to Apple's dominance. It's interesting how pro-Apple mags like Engadget and Gizmodo are stoked about what M$ is bringing to the table. After running the demo, I have to admit that Apple's GUI seemed kind of dated.

What? Gizmodo is pro Apple? Is this the mirror universe?

And Engadget isn't pro-apple as well, they just get excited little easier with Apple products.

And WP7 will arrive dead on the market. Android was and still is the only real challenger.

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post #100 of 188
I've always found it amusing in the way Microsoft always has to tell everybody exactly how much they're spending on their promotions. Last time it was their $300 million dollar Vista campaign. Again, why do we need to know how much they're spending? Are they trying to tell us that we should pay attention simply because they think it's important enough to spend X amount on?
post #101 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

i think apple edged out ms in profits recently? but regardless of that they are both running close together i think (profit wise)

No not profits. Microsoft is still very profitable. But Apple has almost caught up to them in total revenue. They are probably going to pass them very soon once they start reporting the iPhone4 and iPad numbers.
post #102 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

I've always found it amusing in the way Microsoft always has to tell everybody exactly how much they're spending on their promotions. Last time it was their $300 million dollar Vista campaign. Again, why do we need to know how much they're spending? Are they trying to tell us that we should pay attention simply because they think it's important enough to spend X amount on?

Did you even read the article before you posted or just the title?

This wasn't a press release.
post #103 of 188
I tried to find out how much was spent on the "Kin" phone marketing and the numbers range from $250m to $410m. I actually was surprise to learn how hard Microsoft was trying to create a viral hype for the kin. The created lots of webisodes of how to use the phone. The had nationwide tour parties and held a huge launch party. Even worse was the TV advertising that had a faux hipster feel to it.
This money does not include the $500 million spent to buy the Danger phone project. Microsoft needs to learn that advertising money buys exposure, not cool. Kin has left a really bad taste in people's mouth and I am not sure that the new Microsoft WinMo 7 phone will taste much better to consumers. I think it might do ok with the enterprise market, but today consumers are the driving force in todays gadget market. Companies are increasingly allowing their employees to bring in their own computers, phones etc. to work.

Microsoft has recently spent a lot of money on Bing to compete with Google. They even had a pretty good cash back program if you purchased something thru their BING market. I used it, got my cash back, and have rarely used it since, maybe not at all. Thanks for the money, but it didn't succeed in keeping me as a user.

I can't wait to see what kind of marketing MS uses for their new phones. I wish I was in advertising and was getting some of that $$$$ that will be thrown at the new phone.
post #104 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppDev View Post

Xbox turned it's first profit in 2008.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/14898..._a_profit.html

From your link: "As of June 30, the Xbox division on its own made Microsoft $426 million in operating profits, and $8.1 billion in total sales. According to the company's 4th quarter report, those numbers are up 34% from the year before, when it lost the company nearly $2 billion. Of course, the Entertainment and Devices division (which houses the Xbox team) as a whole still ended up losing $188 million for the year."

So, they made $426 million profit, but had to spend (just the 1 year before...) $2 billion?


Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

Googling XBOX and Profit is pretty easy. The division was profitable in 2008 and 2009.

http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/20346/...Year-in-a-Row/

And gee...they seem to be making money off Live...


From your link: "During fiscal year 2009, Microsoft shipped 11.2 million Xbox 360 consoles compared with 8.7 million Xbox 360 consoles during fiscal year 2008. These last figures explain why the Xbox saw its second straight year of profitability and even if the Entertainment and Devices posted an operating loss of $130 million in the fourth quarter, it ended fiscal year 2009 with an operating income of $169 million. "


So for those 2 years, they made a profit of $556 million. GREAT, except they lost $2 billion in 2007 alone. Note also that the division as a whole LOST money those years.


They have a lot of profit to make before they are even close to breaking even on the XBOX.
post #105 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppDev View Post

We shouldn't underestimate M$ and their checkbook too much.

MSFT is going to need more than $500M to "catch up" to this market. How much doesn't matter. What they need can't be bought.

Microsoft certainly has the financial means, but it's far too simplistic to think all they need to successfully position themselves in the smart phone market is to allocate enough funds to it.

It seems to be a characteristically American misapprehension to think that throwing enough money around can solve any problem one can imagine (look at what Congress has been doing lately). Microsoft has lots of money, but what they do not have is the unique culture of innovation and talent that drives Apple's success. I have never worked for Microsoft, but know several people who have, all of whom relate stories of a thoroughly toxic corporate culture that crushes and destroys innovation while rewarding incompetence and deception - that's why they're all former employees. An innovative and game-changing product like the iPhone will never emerge from Microsoft.

Contrast this with Apple. Their uniquely innovative engineering culture is a commodity that can't be had for any amount of money. It can't be borrowed, sold, or implemented by corporate edict. It's arguably their most precious asset, far more valuable to AAPL's investors than the substantial cash on their balance sheet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppDev View Post

Remember they have a successful history of doing this.

MSFT's investment history points more toward acquisitions than anything particularly innovative. They've acquired well over 100 companies and have stakes in dozens more. A summary of MSFT's truly innovative products is a short list, and an old one at that. Their current corporate focus is to preserve a very successful revenue stream. This really shouldn't be perceived as a bad thing - MSFT has simply become a huge beast. MSFT investors want a secure investment and predictable dividends, and will probably enjoy that for a long time. Apple, on the other hand, has proven several times they're willing to bet the ranch on "the next big thing" - and they've succeeded. Apple took enormous risks by buying NextStep, with the original iMac, the iPod, the iPhone... all of which were trashed by those accustomed to expecting more of the same. They didn't license their OS. They didn't build a netbook. They didn't lower their prices. They build hundreds of retail stores... all unpopular decisions. Where would Apple be without having taken these risks? In all likelihood, gone. This is what separates an innovative company from an immovable beast like MSFT, and why Steve Jobs calls Apple "the biggest startup on the planet".

If MSFT has a "successful history" of doing anything in particular, it's intimidating their competition, selling what they don't have, and promising what can't be delivered. I don't begrudge Microsoft's success in these areas, capitalism is capitalism and there are plenty of ways to make money. Deception and intimidation are as much in MSFT's DNA as innovation and fanatical attention to detail and quality are in Apple's. How you choose to invest is up to you.

To properly serve their shareholders, Microsoft should forget the smartphone market. That ship has sailed.
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post #106 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by john galt View Post

MSFT is going to need more than $500M to "catch up" to this market. How much doesn't matter. What they need can't be bought. ...

Well, I wouldn't be too sure about that. They need two things in mobile, marketshare, which they have next to none of now, and, more importantly, mindshare, of which they have none with currently shipping products and consumers, but still some with developers.

$500M can certainly buy them some marketshare, essentially paying handset manufacturers to build WP7 handsets; and carriers will likely be happy to throw another mobile OS into the mix, since it is to their advantage to insure that no one mobile OS becomes totally dominant.

Harder, but not impossible, to buy is mindshare. They used to be pretty good at this, but have certainly slipped in their ability to do so in recent years. But, if they can pay developers for some compelling apps, take a significant chunk of marketshare, and rouse the faithful, they have at least a shot at being successful in this.

The enemy is obviously Android, which has pretty decent marketshare right now, but not all that much mindshare outside of certain geek circles. Android's faux openness is not really a big selling point beyond the geeks, so I don't think a business model contrary to that is a problem for them. So, the big question is can their marketing be compelling enough to actually make people want these phones in preference to Android phones. It's a hurdle, but not an insurmountable one.

The biggest losers will continue to be Nokia and RIM, with HP/webOS an entirely unpredictable wild card at this point. (If not bought by HP, webOS would die a not so lingering death. It's not clear, to me at least, whether HP can reverse that, and it certainly doesn't help them being rudderless at this point in time.)

EDIT: Assuming they're going all in with WP7, they also need a (non-Windows) tablet in the game. Without that, WP7 may well just end up as the latest failure from Redmond.
post #107 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Maybe the money would be better spent building a school in Los Angeles:

http://theweek.com/article/index/206...by-the-numbers

God forbid this country celebrate education instead of ignorance (otherwise known these days as patriotism.)
post #108 of 188
I see a lot of scared Apple fans who think they won't own the "latest and greatest" once WP7 comes out.

Who cares how much they spent? Apple got MS off their asses, and that's what matters. If MS can come back with something great, Apple will get off their asses so-to-speak and come back with something even better.

I'll never understand why people don't see this.
post #109 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

Did you even read the article before you posted or just the title?

This wasn't a press release.

Do you think the author just pulled the number out of his butt? Somebody, somewhere gave him an idea of the amount. But it's true, I did assume that it was a Microsoft employee that passed on the dollar amount.
post #110 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

God forbid this country celebrate education instead of ignorance (otherwise known these days as patriotism.)

would be nice, but, education is another problem that can't be solved by throwing money at it...
post #111 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

would be nice, but, education is another problem that can't be solved by throwing money at it...

It's not like that has ever actually been tried. Results might be surprising.
post #112 of 188
In other news, Schwinn Bicycle Co. will invest $500M to catch up with Ferrari on the international Formula 1 racing circuit.
post #113 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsa View Post

I bet Windows mobile 7 has a very smooth integration with Exchange servers, which is a reason for buying for many, many companies out there.

iPhone has great Exchange server support, and it's very easy to setup. My girlfriend bought her 3GS late last year, and set up her work Exchange support in-store by herself... and she's not especially tech-savvy. It was simply straightforward to setup, and has worked flawlessly since.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsa View Post

Here in Europe the iPhone crazyness is over already, and many people dump the iPhone for better phones.

Really? Based on which data? Let me guess: your personal bias. Being a Fandroid doesn't alter reality around you... in case weren't aware.
post #114 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Harder, but not impossible, to buy is mindshare. ... if they can pay developers for some compelling apps, take a significant chunk of marketshare, and rouse the faithful, they have at least a shot at being successful in this.

Some marketshare, yes. Some "mindshare", yes. But that's a lot of "ifs", and MSFT is facing significant headwinds at this point. The MSFT "faithful" are a shrinking and aging slice of the pie. The future belongs to the young, who are being brought up on the standard the iPhone and its variants have become. Gaining market share will require exactly what Apple has known for years - you have to do everything better - a lot better - to take market share from an established leader. Good luck with that, when Apple has a decade of R&D behind them already.

Of course MSFT "has a shot" but their current strategy seems to be "ready... fire... aim"

Of the two, I believe HP has the greater potential to reinvent itself with their acquisition of webOS, but before doing so it will have to tear down just about everything it has become recently... a second rate vendor of Windows-centric hardware and overpriced ink. Not a viable business model IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

... carriers will likely be happy to throw another mobile OS into the mix, since it is to their advantage to insure that no one mobile OS becomes totally dominant.

Believe it or not I don't want Apple to be without competition. No one manufacturer has the luxury of complacency. History has not been kind to any company, no matter how big, content to just sit on an existing revenue stream. This is especially true of technology companies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwfrederick View Post

... apple is American, bitch.. gfy

How profoundly moronic it is to resort to vulgar ad hominem attacks when logic and literacy fail the author.
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post #115 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

Let's see who Microsoft will copy this time: a tight control over the ecosystem Apple style, or a mish mash of whatever happens hardware and software wise of Google. So far it looks like a hybrid of different hardware manufacturers with dictated microsoft standards and a fairly controlled eco-system, but we'll see what happens after launch.

I'm sure Ballmer (if he is still around) will have a lot of sleepless nights trying to figure out how to set up the copiers.

PS I am just not exited at all about Phone 7. Not that it's bad, it's just I don't care what they put out, and after the flop of KIN they better nail this launch or they are history in the phone business. This time I truly believe that.

I think Microsoft's hybrid strategy between being tightly controlled and being completely wild like Android is actually a pretty good idea. Giving hardware manufacturers requirements on physical buttons can be helpful to the consumer, unlike the mishmash of Android products.

The reasons I'm not excited for Windows Phone 7 are:
1. The interface is HORRIBLE! Going right and left, up and down on that grid thing without really knowing "I have to go in this direction to do this." It's just a mess!
2. No access to the central file system. What MADE Windows Mobile versions in the past was their similarities to Windows. Why can't Windows Phone 7 be like having a mobile version of Windows 7 in your pocket?

(I can understand that today's smartphones are really just made for dumb people who don't do anything productive on them.)

3. No possibility of SD card or tethering support. You can even tether an iPhone!! This is supposedly for the security of business users, but since a Windows 7 phone doesn't give you access to the file system, or have backward compatibility to Windows Mobile 6 applications, how is it even a good phone for business? (I can't tell you whether Blackberry lets you store files wherever you want on the file system, though, to be fair most phones don't. I wish more phones were like the Nokia N900 with full file system and terminal access. It's NOT a security issue to be restricted in the way that you use your phone!)
4. THE NAME! Windows Phone 7!! Screams BORING!
5. No backward compatibility due to rushed development schedule. So the development was rushed, this OS is likely going to suck.
6. I dunno if it's a problem but....still Windows CE based.
post #116 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by striker_kk View Post

Android is enough. Want one more? Anything other than M$.

This is why its called the open market. Everyone has the opportunity to compete.

Quote:
It's not 'wishing'. It's called reading the writing on the wall. In this case, the letters are neon and twelve feet tall.

You are making the same predictions people made with the iPhone was first introduced. You are predicting doom before anyone has even used it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor David View Post

I see this comment often. There already is competition in smart phones. I'd guess most here are negative about win phone mo 7 or whatever it's called is because there are two things that have brought ms success the last 30 years, office and eliminating competition.

MS has no power to eliminate competition. Bringing that up in the smart phone market is just FUD.

Roughly 1.2 billion mobile phones are sold annually. Roughly 300 million smart phones will be sold this year. There is plenty of room for competition.

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Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

they won't fail. they may not do great but they will be around.
there is competition, its just floundering around a bit right now. if Android 3 does come out then you will see it. the iphone 4 wasn't really ALL THAT. nice touches and pretty, interesting hardware design but nothing that just makes one running android 2.2 go.. 'gee i really need to ditch this and get iphone 4'.

How did this go from talking about Windows Mobile to talking about switching from Android to iPhone?
post #117 of 188
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Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

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Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

would be nice, but, education is another problem that can't be solved by throwing money at it...

It's not like that has ever actually been tried. Results might be surprising.

I think you're both missing a fundamental point: lots of tax revenue allegedly raised for "education" is actually spent on non-productive assets such as redundant overpaid administrators and pensions. So you're right, it's never actually been tried - except perhaps in private schools whose performance is constantly subjected to judgment by a market that "votes with its feet". Like the smartphone market.

To extend the analogy, MSFT's $500M investment isn't likely to reach those who can actually deliver some return on it... because those who can aren't working for MSFT.

What would happen if you doubled the amount of money dedicated toward "education"? You might find this an interesting read: http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-298.html

Enjoy
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post #118 of 188
Money well spent, er, wasted! I'm sure...

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #119 of 188
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Originally Posted by akhomerun View Post

4. THE NAME! Windows Phone 7!! Screams BORING!

I know nothing about marketing, but one would think this is a golden opportunity to ditch the moniker for good. I thought Vista would have been it, but no, it's back! Hasn't the "windows" metaphor been played...? This is the best a 200 billion dollar company can come up with? What's "windows" supposed to mean anyway?

It stinks - like a retirement home. Just plow more money into it though. Dopes.
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post #120 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by john galt View Post

I think you're both missing a fundamental point: lots of tax revenue allegedly raised for "education" is actually spent on non-productive assets such as redundant overpaid administrators and pensions. So you're right, it's never actually been tried - except perhaps in private schools whose performance is constantly subjected to judgment by a market that "votes with its feet". Like the smartphone market.

To extend the analogy, MSFT's $500M investment isn't likely to reach those who can actually deliver some return on it... because those who can aren't working for MSFT.

What would happen if you doubled the amount of money dedicated toward "education"? You might find this an interesting read: http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-298.html

Enjoy

A couple of problems with this. First, it would be difficult to find a more biased source than Cato. Secondly, cherry picking a couple of anecdotes don't prove a point. The education system in this country is and has been in such a shambles for years from chronic underfunding that, no, a few years of throwing money at it isn't likely to make a difference. Nor will randomly throwing money at any problem make a difference. So, while it's easy to look at something like this and say, "See, dismal failure," it's ridiculous to think that education in this country will be improved by not "throwing money at it," for many years, consistently, and with a purpose. The current regime of standardized testing to "fix" education is a joke, and a complete waste of money.

It may actually be too late to fix the education system in the US. Local control is a disaster -- e.g., school boards voting to teach students fake "science". Federal control would be a disaster because it would become just another political football in our current toxic political environment. It's basically a microcosm of why this country is failing while we congratulate ourselves that everything is, "the best in the world."
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