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Apple's new iPod nano to maintain price points, won't push out shuffle - sources - Page 2

post #41 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

If you want to insist that this is the new shuffle, please explain why case manufacturers are calling it the nano. If they are privvy to the physical dimensions of the upcoming iPods, they should also be privvy to the names so that they can properly brand their products.

I seem to recall that the case makers do not get detailed info about upcoming devices, much less names. They seem to get very simple drawing that only indicate the dimensions and I/O points on the device. Only after the reveal are more comprehensive plans made available.

As for the nomenclature, I think its mostly irrelevant. I think the more important question is why we think Apple would kill the current Nano styling?

Note that Apple has been building this device for 7 generations now. Five generations of the Nano, which replaced 2 generations of the iPod Mini which used a 1 HDD over NAND. So what reasoning do you have to think Apple will, for the first time since building iPods continue a product line by removing features? Why would a device that was capable of being held in the hand for video recording now be replaced with one that either has no such ability or would seem to be less comfortable to hold if a video camera was included?

What really bugs me is the display size. Why not go with a larger display that is equal to or greater than the current Nanos display. In widescreen a square display will make video unwatchable. You could also pack more features into the larger footprint. Apple likes to go smaller, but they typically do so if they maintain or increase the feature set in the process.

Its for this reason I think (regardless of what this is called) that the current Nano design will not likely be killed tomorrow as it fits a niche that is not covered by this rumour, the Shuffle, the Touch or Classic.

Also, even with the Classic so long in the tooth its still part of their lineup even when they kept adding new iPods. Why must one die so the other can live?
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post #42 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

I had no idea the Grammar Police read AppleInsider. Learn something new every day.

We may be miles apart politically, but we're in the same camp on this. I have been guilty of it in the past, but have tried to hold my tongue going forward.
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post #43 of 69
Do you guys really think that the nano was selling that well? Prior to the iPod touch it was the best selling iPod, but that isn't the case anymore. iPod sales are declining, and I'm sure thats not the fault of the iPod touch, so what does that mean for the rest of the lineup?

Many people insisted that the fatty nano wasn't going to happen either, but it did. Then people argued that they wouldn't go back to the old form factor after just a single generation, but they did. Now you guys are arguing that Apple wouldn't abandon features just implemented in the last generation... Things should be interesting tomorrow.

If the prices of the iPod touch and the nano remain similar, the nano needs something that is better than what the iPod touch offers. The video camera and fm radio wont cut it this year.
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post #44 of 69
Maybe this Small touchscreen device will be called the iPod nano but we'll keep the current nano form-factor with the name "iPod" - giving customers the choice of:
iPod Shuffle, cheap, screen less, control less iPod
iPod Nano, small 1.7" touchscreen ultraportable iPod
iPod, candybar design, clickweel, widescreen display, camera (near-full featured iPod)
iPod Classic, huge hard drive
iPod Touch, full featured iPod
post #45 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

As for the nomenclature, I think it’s mostly irrelevant. I think the more important question is why we think Apple would kill the current Nano styling?

Because it can't compare to the iPod Touch. The click wheel limits screen size, while increasing the devices size. You could add a touch screen, but then the OS would be compared with iOS. The nano features a video camera and an fm radio, but what if the iPod touch gets those? It's biggest advantage is that it is smaller than the iPod touch. Apple seems to want to play to that strength.

Quote:
It’s for this reason I think (regardless of what this is called) that the current Nano design will not likely be killed tomorrow as it fits a niche that is not covered by this rumour, the Shuffle, the Touch or Classic.

What niche does it leave exposed? The smaller square screen annoys me too, but the nano's biggest niche, fitness, would actually be better served by a smaller nano. Video would quite frankly be better served by a smaller ipod touch as opposed to the current iPod nano.

Edit: I'll leave any further discussion for tomorrow. I've stated my thoughts, and I'm probably being overly argumentative at this point.
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post #46 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

I had no idea the Grammar Police read AppleInsider. Learn something new every day.

Thank God they are here to help AI put their articles in better condition than they sometimes appear to begin with. Love you guys.

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post #47 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

This is the new form factor for the nano, unless the case manufacturers are completely out to lunch.

Something they have frequently been over the years.

A smaller screen, no room for a camera and no practical way to hold it for use as a camera, the same amount of storage (flash prices have been stable for two years) and the same old price?

I think you've been drinking the kool aid a bit too long.
post #48 of 69
For everyone wringing their hands over the excellence of the current Nano, consider this:



And that chart includes the Touch, which by all accounts is showing explosive growth. So how many Nanos do you reckon Apple is actually selling, at this point? Given the trends, how many do you think they are going to be selling this time next year?

No matter how fond any given owner might be of their particular iPod, the fact is Apple knows the market for dedicated players has peaked, and that the decline will likely accelerate. If they can get a cheaper Touch on the market, that will hasten the inevitable. As someone else has said, why goof around with a shitty camera and so-so video playback when you can get a really good camera and stellar playback for not much larger and just $50 more, and what happens if that price differential shrinks? Yes, there are click wheel enthusiasts, but are there enough of them for Apple to bother catering to?

The answer is to make the Nano a "wow" device, nothing but a tiny touchscreen. New enough and fun enough to spur at least a short term sales spike. The size gives you incentive to choose it over the Touch, if small is what you're looking for, while dropping the camera removes the decidedly un-Apple-esque problem of having two devices which do the same thing, only one of them does it really poorly. Plus, as has been pointed out, the standard dock connector is a huge asset.

I'd certainly buy one of these over the Shuffle for the gym, and I suspect that Apple will implement some kind of easy tap and swipe transport controls to make no-look operation possible. Works for me.
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post #49 of 69
Maybe it is a completely new iPod?? Something in between the shuffle and nano? If the

rumor that Apple would be retiring the classic becomes truth, I assume Apple would fill the

lineup with something, rather than nothing.

I haven't checked or heard how the classic's sales were compared to the other iPods, but I

know I've heard the rumor before the last 2-3 summer events.
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post #50 of 69
Some of you seem unwilling to let go on the click wheel. On the iPhone and the iPod Touch, there is no such thing. But momentum scrolling works just fine for navigating thru song lists.

The click wheel has had its time. Let it go already.
post #51 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

Because it can't compare to the iPod Touch. The click wheel limits screen size, while increasing the devices size.

But in your theory that this is the new Nano, they removed the click wheel, all the additional space AND made the display small, when they cold have made it bigger. That is part of my questioning of how this can be an evolution of the Nano.

Quote:
The nano features a video camera and an fm radio, but what if the iPod touch gets those? It's biggest advantage is that it is smaller than the iPod touch. Apple seems to want to play to that strength.

I buy that.

Quote:
...but the nano's biggest niche, fitness, would actually be better served by a smaller nano.

I buy that, too, but thats why I am wanting it to essentially be clip-on iPod with Nike+ built in.

Quote:
Video would quite frankly be better served by a smaller ipod touch as opposed to the current iPod nano.

This is why I love productive arguments. That is the first Ie read about of thought of this as the new Nano, which an iOS-based iPod filling the niche between this new Nano and the iPod Touch. Note: I dont think that will happen tomorrow.

Quote:
Edit: I'll leave any further discussion for tomorrow. I've stated my thoughts, and I'm probably being overly argumentative at this point.

Nah, your arguments are rational and well thought out. Thats what makes this forum greatat times.
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post #52 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

Something they have frequently been over the years.

A smaller screen, no room for a camera and no practical way to hold it for use as a camera, the same amount of storage (flash prices have been stable for two years) and the same old price?

I think you've been drinking the kool aid a bit too long.

As I said earlier. I'm waiting for tomorrow to further dicuss this. I would appreciate you keeping the personal attacks to yourself though. For the record, I've never speculated how much storage the device would have and I've hardly discussed prices at all.

Edit: Thanks for the comments solipsism, nike+ should have been integrated into the nano long ago
I wonder how much space it would actually take up.
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post #53 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by striker_kk View Post

I just cant bite it. This can't be a Nano. it's a shuffle. Doesn't anyone else get it?

I agree. If this is the Nano, this could be one of Apple's product failures. I don't see why someone would want to give up the 'widescreen' aspect ratio.
post #54 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


Also, even with the Classic so long in the tooth its still part of their lineup even when they kept adding new iPods. Why must one die so the other can live?

Very good point. Let's hope that is the case.
post #55 of 69
No way that tiny thing is the nano if they keep the shuffle. That might be the shuffle with display and the nano will stay the say but with larger touch screen.
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post #56 of 69
I'm gonna have to go with new iPod. The product matrix doesn't make sense to me if this is the iPod nano:

Current:
iPod touch - iOS, Music, Video, Web, Apps
iPod classic - iPod OS, Music, Video
iPod nano - iPod OS Advanced, Music, Video, Video Camera, FM Radio
iPod shuffle - iPod shuffle (Spoken Word) OS, Music
There's a problem here, but it's not the nano. It's the legacy classic and the fact the current iPod touch is clearly missing features. We know Apple is adding those features, and likely eliminating the classic, but when you do that AND make the square thing the nano, a new problem emerges:

Alleged Future:
iPod touch - iOS, Music, Video, Web, Apps, Photo/Video Camera, HD + Retina Display
iPod nano - iOS lite/iPod OS touch, Music, FM Radio (Possibly). Video unlikely.
iPod shuffle - iPod shuffle (Spoken Word) OS, Music
Problem here is the gap between the shuffle and the nano is too small, and the gap between the nano and the touch is too big. Now consider if it's a new iPod, say, the iPod air:

iPod touch - iOS, Music, Video, Web, Apps, Photo/Video Camera, HD + Retina Display
iPod nano - iPod OS Advanced, Music, Video, Video Camera, FM Radio
iPod air - iPod OS touch, Music, FM Radio
iPod shuffle - iPod shuffle (Spoken Word) OS, Music

Seems like a much better scaling of featuresets to me.

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post #57 of 69
So I guess the iPod square is not the iPod Nano. I already put my thoughts into what it could be, so am not gonna restate. Tomorrow is gonna be interesting.
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post #58 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

Why is the back of the case open like that?
It would be interesting if it had a front facing camera and WiFi.
FaceTime?

What the heck, I'll stick my neck out too. Two cameras, one front, one back, for FaceTime.

Click wheel on the back, along with the wifi antenna.

Fire away, I'm ducking . . .
post #59 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

What the heck, I'll stick my neck out too. Two cameras, one front, one back, for FaceTime.



then you would need 2 screens. Have an online chat in person facing each other.
post #60 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Rather than continually making it smaller, you would think Apple would add HD Radio (instead of FM) and add the Nike sensor. That would add value to the device (which I assume is staying at the same price point.)

Was there anyone complaining the Nano was too big?

Why would they add HD Radio when it does not help them sell more iTunes songs? Apple only reluctantly added FM last year. They simply don't have a history of adding features just for the sake of it.
post #61 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

What the heck, I'll stick my neck out too. Two cameras, one front, one back, for FaceTime.

Click wheel on the back, along with the wifi antenna.

Fire away, I'm ducking . . .

Why do you need the click wheel? You don't need that anymore. Does anyone miss it on the iPhone?

Let it go!
post #62 of 69
I really hope the nano size capacity would increase to 32gb
post #63 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That seems awful thin to put the camera HW in and the screen, not to mention very awkward to hold since it would be so small.

Based on the components and tech I’m aware of, the only way I can see a camera in this device is if it’s on one side. For example, you would look down at the display while the camera is in front of you pointing forward.

Just shooting for the moon here, but what if Apple finally put into the nano their screen/camera combination patent? Could be a good test case for the tech. If you don't recall, they have a patent on a screen that has tiny imaging sensors between the pixels so the end effect is that the entire screen surface acts like a camera.

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post #64 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Why do you need the click wheel? You don't need that anymore. Does anyone miss it on the iPhone?

Let it go!

I'm not so much attached to it, but it would be the way to control the device 'blind' while driving, as it would also be a music player. And not require touch for that little screen.

SpamSandwich's idea of the patented, embedded sensor-pixels also occurred to me. It would save space on the front for the FaceTime 'face' camera, but it seems too radical at this time. But maybe not, knowing Apple's ability to surprise . . .
post #65 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

As I said earlier. I'm waiting for tomorrow to further dicuss this. I would appreciate you keeping the personal attacks to yourself though. For the record, I've never speculated how much storage the device would have and I've hardly discussed prices at all.

Edit: Thanks for the comments solipsism, nike+ should have been integrated into the nano long ago
I wonder how much space it would actually take up.

I'm the one speculating that the amount of storage cannot increase because flash memory devices in the marketplace have actually been going up in price recently.

Thus I see nothing in this theoretical new nano to make it better than the old one and thus nothing to justify your contention that Apple will be holding the line on prices.
post #66 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Why do you need the click wheel? You don't need that anymore. Does anyone miss it on the iPhone?

Let it go!

Maybe I should be calling it a scroll wheel, as in the gen5 nano. Does that make more sense?
post #67 of 69
Any chance the new Nano will have two-sided touch interface or displays? Although it appears to have a clip, it sure would raise eyebrows if Apple introduced a back touch panel on the updated Nano that could be engineered onto the Touch and iPhone too.
post #68 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Why do you need the click wheel? You don't need that anymore. Does anyone miss it on the iPhone?

Let it go!

I do. I loved the tactile feel of it and the ease in which you can scroll with one hand. With the iPhone you really need two hands because you need one to hold it in most cases and flicking a page just doesnt feel as good as that circular trackpad.
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post #69 of 69
Shuffle has been about being the smallest mp3 player possible. It's been a compromise - small device with limited functionality. Nano is about being the smallest real iPod with a display. That's not going to change.
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