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New Apple TV, iPods to debut today, won't ship immediately - report

post #1 of 44
Thread Starter 
Apple will introduce a new Apple TV and fourth-generation iPod touch today, but none of the products introduced at the company's keynote will ship immediately, a new rumor claims.

Via its official Twitter account, Australian MacWorld revealed Wednesday the alleged product code for the Apple TV refresh set to be introduced. It is claimed that the code is USA MC572 LL/A, but the product is not yet shipping.

A source also told the publication that "it doesn't look like anything will be shipping immediately." That person also indicated that a fourth-generation iPod touch is "definitely coming."

On Tuesday, AppleInsider first reported that the new, smaller iPod nano will not ship immediately either. The new device will be built around a 1.7-inch display, and will retain the 30-pin iPod dock connector.

Reports have indicated that Apple is set to introduce its new Apple TV, perhaps, running the iOS operating system, at today's event. Bloomberg reported Tuesday that the new set top box will ship with the ability to stream instant content available from Netflix.

Apple has also allegedly brokered deals with major networks Fox and ABC, which will allow 99-cent rentals of TV episodes through iTunes.

In April, Australian Macworld correctly stated that Apple would release new MacBook Pros. In May, it revealed a part number it believed would be tied to a MacBook Air refresh, but instead turned out to be an updated MacBook.
post #2 of 44
Because of this


I expect them to be available, at least online, on the 8th though.
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post #3 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

... Apple has also allegedly brokered deals with major networks Fox and ABC, which will allow 99-cent rentals of TV episodes through iTunes....

For the life of me I cannot figure out why this little nugget keeps getting repeated again and again as though it was actually something good.

99 cent TV show rentals my be cheaper than what they offer now, but it's still a horrendous deal. Anyone who avails themselves of the opportunity (unless it's some kind of dire emergency) is a fool.
post #4 of 44
If the new iOS based Apple TV only runs existing iOS apps (extremely unlikely), it could ship immediately. If, like the iPad, it requires a new SKD, we're more likely to see the pre-release SDK released today and the device shipping in a few months, after developers get their apps together.

Just like the iPad announcement/release.
post #5 of 44
I don't get the Netflix tie in. Doesn't that ruin the iTunes movie rental model? Or maybe Apple is buying Netflix? Either way it doesn't yet make sense to me.
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post #6 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGuessSo View Post

If the new iOS based Apple TV only runs existing iOS apps (extremely unlikely), it could ship immediately. If, like the iPad, it requires a new SKD, we're more likely to see the pre-release SDK released today and the device shipping in a few months, after developers get their apps together.

Just like the iPad announcement/release.

and will apps run native on my 1080p TV or run at 720p, or iPad's 1024x768?
i'm not a programmer - does the SDK currently allow scalable graphics or just support the three existing iOS resolutions used?
post #7 of 44
""The source also said that it doesn't look like anything will be shipping immediately, and 4th gen touches are definitely coming too."" - Article

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...3&postcount=24

""So it appears that this might be a unique ipod announcement where not many of the items are available immediately.""
post #8 of 44
I can see this being true, even though rumors persisting when the actual event is merely hours away amuses me to no end.

Hopefully we will see an iTunes X release today and the iPods etc.. released in a week or so.
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post #9 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by desarc View Post

and will apps run native on my 1080p TV or run at 720p, or iPad's 1024x768?

Your TV takes whatever source you feed into it and scales it to 1080p. It may display that it's receiving a 720p signal, but it still has to be scaled to fit the native resolution of the display.
post #10 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandau View Post

I don't get the Netflix tie in. Doesn't that ruin the iTunes movie rental model? Or maybe Apple is buying Netflix? Either way it doesn't yet make sense to me.

Streaming Netflix is a "me too" feature. I already have two boxes that do that very well (plus an iPhone app), won't be a sales point for this new Apple box, at least for me.
post #11 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

For the life of me I cannot figure out why this little nugget keeps getting repeated again and again as though it was actually something good.

99 cent TV show rentals my be cheaper than what they offer now, but it's still a horrendous deal. Anyone who avails themselves of the opportunity (unless it's some kind of dire emergency) is a fool.

How is it a horrendous deal? If I can skip cable and only rent the shows I want to watch, I guarantee you I'll be coming out ahead of someone who's subscribing to HD digital cable or satellite service with a HD PVR. And I get little to no repeat viewing out of the TV I watch, so why would I want to spend more just to archive data I don't want?

Just because it doesn't work for you, doesn't mean it doesn't work for anyone.
post #12 of 44
The only reason I can see for the delay would be either not enough product in stock, or they just didn't want any leaks.
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post #13 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by desarc View Post

and will apps run native on my 1080p TV or run at 720p, or iPad's 1024x768?
i'm not a programmer - does the SDK currently allow scalable graphics or just support the three existing iOS resolutions used?

Oversimplification:

The iOS and Mac OS X, essentially support unlimited size -- you just need the RAM to buffer (and manipulate) what you are displaying. The streaming API determines what size(s) to stream based on target device and bandwidth.

You may have a target device with a size n, and, say 3 available source streams of size a, b and n.

The streamer will try to maintain a stream of size n, but gracefully fall back to size, b, then a-- if the bandwidth is limited. As bandwidth improves, the size is upgraded, accordingly.

In any case, what is displayed remains the same size-- it is just a smaller size scaled up (contains coarser pixels).

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post #14 of 44
2 hours to go before we know for sure.

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Mac mini Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz 8GB RAM, iPhone 5 32GB Black

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iPod nano 5th Gen 8GB Orange, iPad 3rd Gen WiFi 32GB White
MacBook Pro 15" Core i7 2.66GHz 8GB RAM 120GB Intel 320M
Mac mini Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz 8GB RAM, iPhone 5 32GB Black

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post #15 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post

Your TV takes whatever source you feed into it and scales it to 1080p. It may display that it's receiving a 720p signal, but it still has to be scaled to fit the native resolution of the display.

Also FYI if you watch ABC or FOX on cable or OTA you only get a 720p signal anyway because that's what they broadcast in. The quality should be on par with the cable signal you get now. (assuming you have enough bandwidth)
post #16 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by StLBluesFan View Post

Streaming Netflix is a "me too" feature. I already have two boxes that do that very well (plus an iPhone app), won't be a sales point for this new Apple box, at least for me.

Very few people at all have boxes that stream Netflix, let alone multiples. Early adopters forget that the vast majority of people still have no more than a cable box and dvd player, if that.
That said, I too find the Netflix addition puzzling but welcome.
Too often I have to tell my family, 'oops... guess ATV doesn't have that movie'. Latest was Bottle Shock. What I'm not sure of is whether Netflix is that much better. From what I understand, their streaming selection is equally crippled.

None of this is the fault of Apple or Netflix... its all on the providers who would rather go out of business than lose control.
post #17 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandau View Post

I don't get the Netflix tie in. Doesn't that ruin the iTunes movie rental model? Or maybe Apple is buying Netflix? Either way it doesn't yet make sense to me.

Some people want a subscription service, and some people won't. If you take Apple at their word that the whole iTunes and appStore architecture is primarily a driver for hardware, then why wouldn't apple provide a product which allows people to access content in whatever way works for them?

Doesn't the value proposition for the appleTV increase exponentially if you can get content from iTunes, Hulu+, Netflix, ABC app, etc., etc...?
post #18 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by desarc View Post

and will apps run native on my 1080p TV or run at 720p, or iPad's 1024x768?

I STRONGLY doubt that the 1080p would be supported.
Most HDTV installed based is 720p only. Affordable 1080p is only 1 year old.
Also, unless you have a 55" screen (at 10ft) or are sitting 5 feet away from your TV (32"), 1080p has no added value over 720p (your eye can make out pixels, like on the iPhone 4 Retina Display at 1 feet).
At last, 1080p requires more memory and computing power than 720p.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desarc View Post

i'm not a programmer - does the SDK currently allow scalable graphics or just support the three existing iOS resolutions used?

You don't target screen sizes, you target devices : the iPhone/iTouch or the iPad.
The iPad happened to be able to load and display iPhone/iTouch apps.
I think the AppleTV will be a new device category.

Now, I STRONGLY doubt that the AppleTV would be able to load iPhone/iTouch and iPad apps.

1st, displaying those would be a nightmare.
You can't rotate your TV from landscape to portrait.
Also, a flat TV is 16/9 while iPad is 4/3 and iPhone is 3/2. iPad and iPhone are rather close while TV is much wider.

And most important, on touchscreen devices, you directly interact with the content displayed. You can't do that on a TV. You'll need a remote control and touch based UI won't work with that.
post #19 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandau View Post

I don't get the Netflix tie in. Doesn't that ruin the iTunes movie rental model? Or maybe Apple is buying Netflix? Either way it doesn't yet make sense to me.

Apple is much more interested in selling hardware and extending their ecosystem than selling video rentals. Video rentals are high volume/low margin, Apple hardware is moderate volume/huge margins. So if they can make the iPad more attractive with the Kindle app, or the iTV more attractive with Netflix it is a win-win (and on the other end, Amazon wants to sell ebooks, not Kindles, and Netflix wants more distribution channels, not a hardware business). If they take little or no profit from the content, the content is ultimately cheaper, and the device that provides the cheap content is more attractive.
post #20 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiles77 View Post

The only reason I can see for the delay would be either not enough product in stock, or they just didn't want any leaks.

Another possibility-- they want to get the SDK into the hands of all developers before the product delivers.

My intuition tells me that the iTV SDK will be available today, and iTV device delivery on Sept 23.

iPods, maybe sooner, with current iOS 4.

I also hope that the iPad iOS 4 SDK release will be today (maybe combined with iTV) and both available by Sept 23.

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post #21 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGuessSo View Post

If the new iOS based Apple TV only runs existing iOS apps (extremely unlikely), it could ship immediately. If, like the iPad, it requires a new SKD, we're more likely to see the pre-release SDK released today and the device shipping in a few months, after developers get their apps together.
Just like the iPad announcement/release.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Another possibility-- they want to get the SDK into the hands of all developers before the product delivers.
My intuition tells me that the iTV SDK will be available today, and iTV device delivery on Sept 23.

This is EXACTLY what I wanted to say.
post #22 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11thIndian View Post

How is it a horrendous deal? If I can skip cable and only rent the shows I want to watch, I guarantee you I'll be coming out ahead of someone who's subscribing to HD digital cable or satellite service with a HD PVR. And I get little to no repeat viewing out of the TV I watch, so why would I want to spend more just to archive data I don't want?

Just because it doesn't work for you, doesn't mean it doesn't work for anyone.

Personally, I've got over 25 season passes on my DVR. If we were to assume that each series is 15 episodes (to be conservative), we're talking about $375. Now, if that was all I watched, then $375 a year would be better than paying $960 a year for DirecTV. Unfortunately, that's not all I watch and there's plenty of other things I don't have season passes to that I do watch. Getting rid of DirecTV just wouldn't be a viable option and at that point, these $1 rentals just don't add up to a good deal. BTW, are HD rentals going to be $.99 as well or will they be more? If they're going to be $1.99 for example, then it starts to sound like even more of a bad deal.
post #23 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Very few people at all have boxes that stream Netflix, let alone multiples. Early adopters forget that the vast majority of people still have no more than a cable box and dvd player, if that.
That said, I too find the Netflix addition puzzling but welcome.
Too often I have to tell my family, 'oops... guess ATV doesn't have that movie'. Latest was Bottle Shock. What I'm not sure of is whether Netflix is that much better. From what I understand, their streaming selection is equally crippled.

None of this is the fault of Apple or Netflix... its all on the providers who would rather go out of business than lose control.

Bottle Shock is available for streaming on the NetFlix app...

... there ya' go!

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post #24 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11thIndian View Post

Some people want a subscription service, and some people won't. If you take Apple at their word that the whole iTunes and appStore architecture is primarily a driver for hardware, then why wouldn't apple provide a product which allows people to access content in whatever way works for them?

Doesn't the value proposition for the appleTV increase exponentially if you can get content from iTunes, Hulu+, Netflix, ABC app, etc., etc...?

Why do you think a NetFlix app would preclude the others-- they co-exist [to some extent] on the iPad?

.
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post #25 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post

Personally, I've got over 25 season passes on my DVR. If we were to assume that each series is 15 episodes (to be conservative), we're talking about $375. Now, if that was all I watched, then $375 a year would be better than paying $960 a year for DirecTV. Unfortunately, that's not all I watch and there's plenty of other things I don't have season passes to that I do watch. Getting ride of DirecTV just wouldn't be a viable option and at that point, these $1 rentals just don't add up to a good deal. BTW, are HD rentals going to be $.99 as well or will they be more? If they're going to be $1.99 for example, then it starts to sound like even more of a bad deal.

Sure. Your usage may vary depending on how much TV you watch. If you watch a lot, then a subscription service may be the way to go. But the blanket statement made above is just silly. I only have 5 shows I watch with any regularity right now. And I don't graze TV when I'm bored. So a pay per use model lets me only pay for the content I want, and watch it when I want to is great. And you know what, that's gonna cost me a LOT less than my current cable package.

I wish people wouldn't make their needs everyones needs. I don't need a truck, but I'm not pulling up beside everyone in a Ram and telling them they're stupid!
post #26 of 44
I just hope it's going to be "US only" all over again. Apple will never enter the living room "US only"... Time for all the industry to wake up to the reality that the rest of the world is also a market...
post #27 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Why do you think a NetFlix app would preclude the others-- they co-exist [to some extent] on the iPad?

I don't. I think they can work well together. Perhaps a Hulu+ subscription and iTunes to fill in the gaps is all I need. Or maybe it's Netflix and ABC. Maybe someone never buys anything from iTunes. Apple still makes money on the hardware.
post #28 of 44
Well the store is down. We will be able to order something.
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post #29 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11thIndian View Post

I don't. I think they can work well together. Perhaps a Hulu+ subscription and iTunes to fill in the gaps is all I need. Or maybe it's Netflix and ABC. Maybe someone never buys anything from iTunes. Apple still makes money on the hardware.

Sorry! My bad! I combined your post with the one you were quoting!

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post #30 of 44
Store is down!

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post #31 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandau View Post

I don't get the Netflix tie in. Doesn't that ruin the iTunes movie rental model? Or maybe Apple is buying Netflix? Either way it doesn't yet make sense to me.

iTunes != Apple Profit Center

Hardware Sales = Apple Profit Center

Translation: Anything (almost) that will promote the sale of Apple Hardware is something Apple wants to embrace. There was a time when Apple NEEDED to grow the iTunes store but not so much any more... They have enough content now where this isn't a big deal and the cold shoulder they are getting from the studios tells them they aren't gonna expand the iTunes movie store anytime soon...

Also they may have steered clear of netflix and such as a nod to the studios that Apple was 1000% behind selling THEIR content... The assholes at the studios still drag their feet and offer pathetic stripped down versions of the movie catalogs AND are even worse when it comes to HD titles.... I think this is Apple officially saying FU to the studios, you don't wanna make money selling thru us then we'll fund other ways to offer our customers the content they desire. Well it's a nice thought anyway...
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post #32 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinolo View Post

I just hope it's going to be "US only" all over again. Apple will never enter the living room "US only"... Time for all the industry to wake up to the reality that the rest of the world is also a market...

Sadly, let's look at the countries where the iPad and iPhone4 ISN'T launched yet. Yup. Quite a long list. This thing will be all about the US except for the iPod part... which will be somewhat related to the US iTunes Store anyways.

Luckily, I have my US iTunes Store account, can't live without it. And a local reliable supplier of US iTunes Store gift cards.
post #33 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

For the life of me I cannot figure out why this little nugget keeps getting repeated again and again as though it was actually something good.

99 cent TV show rentals my be cheaper than what they offer now, but it's still a horrendous deal. Anyone who avails themselves of the opportunity (unless it's some kind of dire emergency) is a fool.

We are talking about NEW shows here, so currently running season. This is not so bad for ads free new seasons shows.

Lots of old shows are already 99c per episodes if you buy the season. For example, 24 season 1 has a BUY price of 19.99 , which means less than 99c per episodes. So expect the rent price to be 50% off the buy price, so 9.99 which is less than 50 cents per episodes.
post #34 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlivierL View Post

I STRONGLY doubt that the 1080p would be supported.
Most HDTV installed based is 720p only. Affordable 1080p is only 1 year old.
Also, unless you have a 55" screen (at 10ft) or are sitting 5 feet away from your TV (32"), 1080p has no added value over 720p (your eye can make out pixels, like on the iPhone 4 Retina Display at 1 feet).
At last, 1080p requires more memory and computing power than 720p.


You don't target screen sizes, you target devices : the iPhone/iTouch or the iPad.
The iPad happened to be able to load and display iPhone/iTouch apps.
I think the AppleTV will be a new device category.

Now, I STRONGLY doubt that the AppleTV would be able to load iPhone/iTouch and iPad apps.

1st, displaying those would be a nightmare.
You can't rotate your TV from landscape to portrait.
Also, a flat TV is 16/9 while iPad is 4/3 and iPhone is 3/2. iPad and iPhone are rather close while TV is much wider.

And most important, on touchscreen devices, you directly interact with the content displayed. You can't do that on a TV. You'll need a remote control and touch based UI won't work with that.

Why bother using iOS if you cant use apps? Oh sry just got it . you meant it would use ATV specific apps. Maybe, but I thought scaling was part of iOS 4.

However I have to disagree and say it's also silly to think that it "must" be a touch interface for the GUI. a remote could work just fine. That's like saying they'd never use OSX for the Apple TV because it needed a mouse and a keyboard.
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post #35 of 44
post #36 of 44
Headline:

"Apple reveals new ways to make huge amounts of money"

"Apple customers bizzarely think this is great news, ready to line up and make Steve Jobs even more wealthy at their own expense"
post #37 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlivierL View Post

...And most important, on touchscreen devices, you directly interact with the content displayed. You can't do that on a TV. You'll need a remote control and touch based UI won't work with that.

I'm not so sure about the assertion that a touch based UI won't work with content displayed on a large screen display. I've seen others tend to dismiss the 55" iPhone, or iPod Touch, or iPad. But, I stopped and thought about the idea of a touch interface working on a large display. I'm not suggesting how. I don't know how. Assuming one could do that, then the idea of a 55" iDevice started to sound interesting. And, who better than Apple to figure out how to do it.

Touch interface, wifi, iTV, content streaming, iOS, apps, etc. I get the feeling that Apple is about to kidnap your living room and you won't even notice.
post #38 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlivierL View Post

You'll need a remote control and touch based UI won't work with that.

but the new bluetooth trackpad would work great...
post #39 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by TedKazinski3 View Post

http://www.apple.com/appletv/

nice first post.
post #40 of 44
.

Interesting how they are bringing up streaming:

Go to:

http://www.apple.com

The guitar image is displayed in the lower left:

-- first - image only
-- second - image link for Mac only
-- third - image link for Mac and iPad only
-- third - image link for Mac, iPad and iPhone

All link to another "Event" page with image only!

.
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